by DL-Online
Letter – Abortion rights provoking rise of extremist politics
January 18, 2013 at 10:13 am in DL-Online
This January marks 40 years of Roe vs. Wade in our land. The generally-accepted count is now at 55 million unborn citizens that have had their totally innocent lives trashed by legalized abortion. Continue Reading
You may not realize this, the slavery was an issue for centuries before it became more acceptable for people to be against it than to be for it. Still today, slavery is an issue in some places and in some contexts. That we have not resolved all conflict regarding a woman’s right to control her own body in a short 40 years is not surprizing given that many still see women as having no rights. At least in the US, the topic is debateable; in some societies women are under the total subjugation of the men of their society. Not only do women have no right to abortion, in many societies, they do not have the right to freely associate with friends, go to school, or marry as they wish. In most western societies, women can do those things, but in many of them abortion is not even debated any more as in the Scandinavian countries. The US is not that far along, but we’re getting there. Women have much more freedom in Norway than they do the the US so we still have a way to go. You apparently want to go backwards, but that’s not going to happen. History has shown us that.
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I actually counsel young girls and women through an agency that does not attempt to walk any sort of line of religious beliefs, but that of personal choice(i.e. best for mom). I can tell you that a significant number of our moms who CHOOSE to have an abortion are doing so because they do not want to incur a religious parent’s wrath. That is the driving force for so many: my mom/dad/grandma just can’t find out I got pregnant out of wedlock.
We neither encourage nor push abortion, but certainly feel it is one option we must give to our young women to make the best choice for THEM. If they choose to continue the pregnancy, they receive help and counseling to make it the best situation possible. However, I must say I have seen some pretty sad and hateful situations where parents of this girl NEVER let her forget she sinned. I have seen girls who were raped or victims of incest face bullying for being “sluts” or of “loose moral character”, when they were doing the best they can with a horrifying situation.
Where are the true Christians? The ones who are loving, understanding, and take care of all of God’s creatures, without judging? Where are the Christians who support those young girls with the cost of bringing up a baby she just can’t afford? Those Christians seem to be in hiding.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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You present your comments as though Christians are universally heartless.Who do you suppose is paying the taxes that fund the welfare payments and food stamp and multitude of other programs. Don’t tell me there is no help available. Again there is no concern mentioned of the unborn baby who’s life is snuffed out.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Thanks for your compassionate comments. I always find it interesting that people who are anti-choice have no concern for the moral dilemma a woman facing an unplanned pregnancy is in. The disturbing thing is that many who are adamently anti-choice are also adamently anti sex education and contraception. The just say no approach has been found to be unrealist as an option for normal teenagers. At the same time, boys are generally not the ones who find themselves in this situation even though they are 50% of the reason it exists.
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You forgot how the same anti- personal rights people want to shut down Planned Parenthood and further cut off many women from birth control.
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The term “pro-life” is a misnomer. If those who considered themselves “pro-life” were really pro-life, they’d be just as concerned about the welfare of a child born from an unwanted or forced (via rape) pregnancy after it’s born.
But, they are not. They are merely “pro-birth”. Once the child of an unwanted pregnancy takes it’s first breath, as far as the hypocritical “pro-lifers” are concerned, the child is on it’s own. Public funding for it’s developmental years – food, shelter, medical care, education and other fundamental nurturing a child requires? Fuggedaboutit! The kid’s on it’s own, now!
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While at the same time want the death penalty handed out liberally. That one never made sense to me.
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There is no basis what-so-ever for the statements of either rebel or greatday. They are just trying to defend the indefensible killing of innocents. This is just a symptom of the sick society the left has built.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Are you for the death penalty? If you are pro-lifer then who made you so high and mighty that you can decide who should live or die? Being pro-life and pro-death penalty seems to be a serious contradiction. Explain please how anyone can be both? Even the Pope is not both.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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How exactly are you comparing an innocent human unborn baby to a murderer? Why would you even care if another human being is killed if you are unwilling to defend the most vulnerable among us who can’t speak for themselves? Why would you look at any murder as anything but population control? The murderer has brought the repurcussions for his actions through his own actions. The innocent baby has done nothing but to be percieved as inconvenient.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Far be it from me to put words into Jack’s mouth, but I think he is alluding to the anti-abortionist’s references to the “sanctity of life”, which would appear to apply both to the future of fetuses and murderers.
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I think we need to be more concerned with the “sanctity of life” of the victims of crime. I don’t see much in the way of concern for them or the victims of abortion. The state has the right to demand a penalty for criminal activity. I don’t see much evidence for reverence of the “sanctity of life” from the pro-abortion crowd other than trying to turn the argument away from the central issue. They feign concern for criminals while their actions provide no protection for the innocent.
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So the criminal has no right to life then? So you get to make that decision. Very Christian like of you wanting to kill someone. Oh the victim? Remember that book I am sure you like to quote from and the part where it says vengeance is mine? What a way to spin your way away from answering the contradictions in your beliefs. But usually pro-lifers don’t mind abortions when their 14-15 daughter comes home pregnant.
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Your presumption to speak for me is totally erroneous. Your philosophy is what I would expect and I have no expectation of changing your view, but will oppose you at every opportunity.
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Still spinning away I see.
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As good as you are at spinning can you turn stray into gold?
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I’d be interested in knowing the opinion of the parents who have the school districts feed their kids and others supply them winter clothes.
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Rebel said “The term “pro-life” is a misnomer. If those who considered themselves “pro-life” were really pro-life, they’d be just as concerned about the welfare of a child born from an unwanted or forced (via rape) pregnancy after it’s born.”
How do you know they are not, rebel?
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Considering that those who oppose women’s rights tend to be the same people who advocate cutting social programs, such as child services, to pay for tax breaks for millionaires, putting two and two together really isn’t that difficult.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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rebel – how do you know they are the same people?
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Abortion is the only “right” that involves killing someone to exercise it.
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Someone? Really? The Supreme Court would beg to differ. A few cells in a petrie dish do not constitute a living person. The real crime would be for women to be unable to decide for themselves when and where they will turn their own bodies into incubators. I’m totally opposed to late term abortion unless the life of the mother is at stake, but If men could get pregnant, the termination of a pregnancy would be no big deal.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I don’t look to the Supreme Court as the final arbiter of when life begins. It isn’t in their job description. Why do late-term abortions repel you? On what basis are they different than any other abortion?
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You can look to the bible for that. There is a time of quickening that most reasonable people recognize.
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I don’t disagree with that statement other than that there is a ” time of quickening that most reasonable people recognize”. It doesn’t appear to me that “reasonable people” is adequately defined.
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Yeah, its hard to decide who the arbiter should be. So lets defer to the Bible, where God says that life begins with the first breath:
Genesis 2:7 “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
Ezekiel 37:5-6 “Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.”
Job 33:4 “The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.”
So, until the baby draws breath after birth it is not a life.
Might also want to check out Exodus regarding causing a miscarriage. If the woman is unharmed the bible expected the man who caused the miscarriage to pay a fine.
Makes you wonder what all those supposedly Christian folks are doing in front of women’s health clinics.
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Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in your mothers womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.
Psalm 139:13 For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb.
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Exactly, God put me together in the womb, but I did not live until I breathed. “Smart”imus, first time we ever agreed.
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We have yet to agree for the first time.
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But the bible clearly states that life begins with the first breath. You note that God performs the miracle of assembling a human being and “knows” us before we are born. Not surprising as the Bible notes that God is the one who puts our soul into us with that first breath.
Now I understand that the Supreme Court disagrees with the Bible and starts life earlier, when it is possible for the baby to come out of the womb and draw a breath, but is this really so inconsistent with the Bible?
Of course, there are a few odd folks who want to prevent sex outside marriage and deliberately misunderstand passages like the ones you quoted, but you aren’t one of those people who twists Gods word to suit your agenda, right?
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No, but that hasn’t stopped you.
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I know a number that want nothing to do with marriage, but do want kids. Just to have a partner to be with. I have no problem with unmarried couples living together, having kids. Even I see nothing positive with marriage, so I see no benefit to it. most what I hear now is married couples recommending others not to get married or request pre-nup. Rings, Weddings are too expensive anyways. besides, a diamond is technically only a rock.
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where is that in the bible?
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I am curious as to when a woman gave you the authority to make medical decisions about her health?
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How is it that an abortion is required for good health?
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Try this Smartimus: Since Rape is an “evil” act, as I would consider incest also, would that pregnancy then not be the result of the devil’s intentions? Would that “innocent” child you presume to know not be a product of an evil entity? Would that not then follow that said child would be considered a threat to good through Satan? Thoughts?
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Did the baby commit a crime?
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How does it feel to live your life knowing that you are part of an extreme minority?
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I don’t base my life on which way the wind blows but on what I believe to be right or wrong. Your opinion that I’m in the “extreme minority” means nothing to me.
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I used to tell my kids “you think it’s OK just because everyone else is doing it”? I feel fine not following the crowd when the crowd is wrong.
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In some cases that baby might be what kills the mother. The mother comes first; then the baby. If the radical right to lifers had their way, the mother would sacrifice her life for that of her fetus. That doesn’t make sense. If you are that into saving lives, use some of your energy in stopping the thousands of lives lost in traffic accidents every year. That’ll keep you busy.
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That scenario is a rarity today but I guess it is enough for the abortion proponents to try justify the killing of 55 million unborn babies since their self proclaimed glorious Roe v. Wade decision.
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most traffic accidents are caused by human error. you can’t fix stupid. kinda like when a girl gets pregnant and then say’s “oops”.
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Oh, puh-leeze! Why is it that every discussion on abortion has to bring up rape and incest? Together they represent about 2% of all pregnancies. They are a non-factor in the debate, which should center on the validity of abortions for convenience: i.e., we really screwed up although there are plenty of ways to avoid conception, and we just don’t a baby ruining our life style.
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It is estimated that there were 83,000 rape induced pregnancies in 2010 (http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-08/rape-results-more-pregnancies-not-less), so its not a meaningless number.
And in any case, when looking at laws one has to look at the unintended consequences. If one could only receive an abortion if one claimed rape or incest that might lead to increases in claims of rape. Our history shows that merely outlawing abortion does not eliminate it.
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“It is integral to the Sovereign God’s created natural order”
Sorry, but we live in a pluralistic, secular society, where laws are not based on a “Sovereign God’s created natural order,” whether it be YHWH, Allah, Odin, or Huitzilipochtli.
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David Frum, a conservative columnist captures a view a lot of us agree with very well:
“Abortion is a product of poverty and maternal distress.
A woman who enjoys the most emotional and financial security and who has chosen the timing of her pregnancy will not choose abortion, even when abortion laws are liberal. A woman who is dominated, who is poor and who fears bearing the child is likely to find an abortion, even where abortion is restricted, as it was across the United States before 1965.” (from http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/opinion/frum-abortion-reality/index.html).
But hey, outlawing abortion would eliminate it, right? (As our history clearly shows.) Why try to address the reasons women choose abortion?
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To the “prolifers”: So beyond trying to control what I do with my body, are there any other aspects of my life that you would like to control? My mind? My lifestyle? Seriously, I thank God that these services are availabe to women who, for whatever their reason is, need or want them. Or would you prefer that they use a coathanger or a knitting needle?
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That’s a bit of a stretch thanking God for the abortions that have killed 55 million of His creation.
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A new poll says that 7 out of 10 Americans agree with you that abortion should be legal. And I would add, it should be rare, especially if women are encouraged to use birth control instead of being discouraged from doing so.
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I agree … abortion shouldn’t be a form of birth control. It should only be an alternative in the most dire of situations, as in rape, incest, or if the mother’s health is in danger. It is being used too often, IMO, to end a pregnancy that could have been prevented. I don’t know what else can be said to wake people up and get them to use birth control. If their religion is preventing them from doing so I would be questioning my religious leaders beliefs.
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Seventy percent of Americans – that’s hard to believe. I’d sure like to see the source and how they asked the question.
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Two examples:
Missouri- McCaskill 54.7- Akin 39.2
Obama 44.4- Romney 53.8
Indiana- Donnely 49.9- Mourdock 44.3
Obama 43.9- Romney 54.1
These are two very red states and the pro-life candidate was beaten for senate. Even though the republican presidential candidate trounced the democrat. This easily shows that even hard core red stators could not even swallow the far right spiel. So if these red states did this and with their population numbers statistically 70% would not be out of the question.
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You are incorrect. The poll, NBC/WSJ, did not say what you said it said. Please keep yourself honest.
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The poll was by nbc/wall street journal. It asked people if Roe vs. Wade should be overturned. 70% of people said “no, it shouldn’t be overturned”.
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Therefore, you were wrong when you said 7 out of 10 Americans said abortion should be legal. Quit being obtuse.
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You are playing with words here. The bottom line is that it would be legal.
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OK, then I thank God for coathangers and kniiting needles and back alleys Smartimus. Seeing as how God created us and then we created the above. Is that better? And I totally agree with Realist except men should also be encouraged to use birth control instead of complaining that sex with a condom is just not as enjoyable.
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So you agree that ” God created us” but yet you insist that destroying his creation is good. I’m having trouble grasping that concept.
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But you are for the death penalty? Is that not destroying “god’s creature”?
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I would like to know how the death penalty discussion relates to aborting innocent unborn babies unless you feel that unborn babies are deserving of the death penalty?
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Still side stepping the issue where you would show your hypocrisy. You can’t say you are pro-death penalty because it destroys the rest of your argument. To quote you ” The murderer has brought the repurcussions (sic) for his actions through his own actions”. Seems you do not have a problem with the death penalty do you? You find it all right for the state to take a life. You are what you claim to be against since you are the state. Evidently you only see some life’s worth saving and others not. So tell me how do you distinguish between them?
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Your premise is disingenuous as it is clear that taking innocent life means nothing to you where you feign defense of the lawless.
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I knew if I waited long enough coat hangers, knitting needles, and back alleys would show up.
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Yeah, I’ve noticed that. How about thnk God for birth control? Or does that goes against your line of reasoning also?
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I thank God that he gave me life. It’s up to me to use the gifts he’s given me. Far be it from me to thank Him that others be denied the opportunity to fulfill their potential.
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Actually, for those who thank God for their life, they must also blame God for the over 50% of fertilzed eggs (what they consider humans) that pass through and never attach to the uterine wall. Guess you can also throw in those that do attach but are the product of spontaneous miscarriage.
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Blame God for what? Those naturally occurring phenomenon are neither good nor evil. In my belief God will take care of the innocent life produced in those circumstances as well as those that die due to abortion. My wife had two miscarriages and I look forward to the day when I’ll meet those two children of mine in Heaven.
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Oh, that’s right, I forget about the double standard which is one of God’s perqs: call others to account while you get off scott-free. Well, if God created you, he also created the zygote which passes through unnoticed. I’m sure there must have been some purpose in his creating it, only to let it float away. But that’s another God perq: humans who are to dense to fathom such situations.
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And how about all those fertilized embryos that get tossed aside in fertility clinics? Many people overlook those conveniently because they are produced in the process of getting a woman pregnant who overwise could not conceive.
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The contridiction of these conservatives shines through when discussing abortion. The same people who preach about outlawing abortion and not allowing insurance companies to cover birth control, than turn around and demonize people using food stamps, health care assistance, housing and child care assistance.
Simple question, is it cheaper to support birth control and allow abortions or raise unwanted children on government assisance?
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You’re claims are a fabrication. Conservatives want fathers to take financial responsibility for the children they help produce. I don’t know a single conservative that isn’t in favor of helping those that truly need it. Where conservatives and the left part ways is in the left’s ambition to create a nation of freeloaders unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives.
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Would you mean like ex-Rep. Walsh (R-Illinois)?
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I refer back to my final question? (I will use science to support my argument)
We are an animal, classified as homo sepiens, and all animals need to reproduce. Reproduction is an essential process for the survival of a species. We are hard wired to participate in this act. Yes we are intellegent animals and we have forms of birth control to prevent unwanted
pregnancies.
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It has to be cheaper for the government and insurance companies to provide insurance for birth control. But yet we fail to provide affordable birth control for everyone.
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I buy my birth control at Walmart. One box of twelveTrojan Magnum XL condoms costs me $6.47. Now that works out to be .54 cents a piece. I consider that to be quite affordable. And…you can order them online if you are too embarrassed to go through the checkout. How much does an abortion cost? Does anyone know? I bet it’s more than .54 cents.
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But, Condoms are only about 60% effective. A proper Birth Control is 95 to 99%
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Maybe Smarticus thinks that sex should only be for reproducion and not recreation. Following that line of reasoning then their would be no need for birth control or abortions. Problem solved.
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Whatever happened to all those large Catholic families? Oh wait they decided to go against their church rules and use birth control.
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You’ll still find them in the Third World, where parents can least afford them. But the Roman Catholic Church has been exploiting the poor there for over half a millenium..
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In the perfect world, every child born would be wanted, loved and cherished. But it’s not and whether you know it or not, not every woman wants to be a Mommy. And not every man wants to be a Daddy. Guess that’s where the recreational sex comes in———-
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Well guess what … if you don’t want to be a parent there are ways to prevent getting pregnant. Over the years I’ve tried a few different products and hey…they worked. They were easy to get and even came with instructions.
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Super glue applied to both knees?
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Sarah should have tried this with Bristol and her soon to be ex-daughter-in-law. Ah such wonderful family values.
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On what basis are you claiming the higher ground?
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I am curious as to why the people that give thumbs up or down do not join the discussion?
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It’s one of the great mysteries of the Universe, Jack, never to be answered.. Like the meaning of life, the purpose of the appendix, why men have nipples, and why gas costs the same at every station in Grand Forks.
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You had to didn’t you? lol
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So to wrap it … we all learned to use birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDs. Good … yes this is good. Now tell the kids and the grandkids.
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