by The Daily Republic
December 22, 2012 at 3:03 am in The Daily Republic
Organization thousands behind goal and last year’s pace.
Tags: charity, christmas, donations, Life, local, mitchell, salvation army, updates 12 Comments »
This will not be a popular statement: Could it be their stance on equality? The Salvation Army on a national level has been very clear regarding their anti-homosexuality position. While I disagree with them, I do support their work in Mitchell due to them being the single option for receiving help other than Social Services. And due to Mitchell’s, what appears to be a gentleman’s agreement, no other safety net organizations come to be; thus, those of us who “vote” with our dollars are left with no options.
Hot debate. What do you think? 16 19
Your “statement” was actually a question. The first part answering the latter.
In other words, the prediction (correctly) of the unpopularity of any pro-homosexual stance contained within your letter, should negate any serious consideration that it might be that very same pro-homosexual stance (or lack thereof) which is hampering giving at the Salvation Army.
Combine that with our dismal economy overall and slumping retail sales in particular and I think it’s pretty clear. Salvation Army is going to be fine, just like Chic-Fil-A. Kinda nice to see someone take a real moral stand once in a while and not bow down to the politically correct pressures of our increasingly God-less society.
Hot debate. What do you think? 13 18
Could it be something as simple as lack of bell ringers?
Like or Dislike: 13 1
A possibility Pam, but my guess is no. Volunteerism seems to remain steady and it was not cited in the article. Everyone is taking a hit in this economic cycle.
Most good folks, at least speaking for myself, don’t pay alot of attention to culture war issues when reaching in their pockets to help the needy. When people are hurting and we can give, we give. We don’t ask about their moral beliefs or what their political ideology may be. I think it is an extremely cynical outlook when some folks see it that way.
It was implied if not stated, in the above comment to the letter, that if there were “other safety net organizations” in the community, the author would give to the others in protest.of the Salvation Army’s stance on homosexuality. It’s a Christian organization for crying out loud. It’s what they believe in. The donations however go to anybody in need. Thank God for the Salvation Army and God bless all who they support.
I’ll be looking for a kettle tomorrow and encourage all the good folks in the community who are able, to do the same.
Like or Dislike: 12 13
Dear Mr. Handy, Its always a joy to have you personally attack me. Thank you.
You will notice in my response that I do support the salvation army’s work in Mitchell. In fact, my 13 yr old son raised over 170.00 for the food pantry and I have put money in the kettle.
However, I do not support their anti-equality stance and if there were options for supporting the vulnerable in Mitchell in the same capacity as the Salvation Army, I would instead support that option. Why? Because I believe in equality and one way equality will become more of a reality in a world filled with inequality is to use our money to make it so. I knew when I posted the above some folks would go for the jugular. Its what “we” do…..become distracted attacking one another rather than having the emotional ability to discuss the issue at hand. I additionally believe that economic issues have effected giving; however, I chose to raise the equality issue instead. Sometimes that what preachers do: raise hard issues. Blessings to you Mr. Handy, this Christmas season. I hope you see the incarnation being about more than Jesus’s birth.
Like or Dislike: 16 13
There was no personal attack in my comment. Why is it, that if anyone states an opinion in opposition to liberal rhetoric, it is an attack. I merely put in my proverbial two cents.
I understand it might be uncomfortable to be shown by logic, the error in your thinking, but you clearly anticipated a challenge to your thoughts (you admit as much), then when the response comes you call it a “personal attack” and step into the role of victim in order to benefit from the fallacy of appeal to emotion.
Furthermore you attempt to create a straw man argument by characterizing your opposition as mean spirited or “going for the jugular”, presumably in order to minimize the verity of their position. That’s rhetoric, not logic. It’s simply not persuasive. Besides, the role of victim doesn’t suit you.
Like or Dislike: 15 13
Dear Handy, I concede Your irrefutable logic wins. I will confess your statements hold no implied undertones toward me regarding what “good people” do. I do have a question for you.
You state, “Most good folks, at least speaking for myself, don’t pay alot of attention to culture war issues when reaching in their pockets to help the needy. When people are hurting and we can give, we give. We don’t ask about their moral beliefs or what their political ideology may be. I think it is an extremely cynical outlook when some folks see it that way.”
Would this hold true for you regarding Planned Parenthood?
“Seventy-six percent of Planned Parenthood health care patients live with incomes of 150 percent of the federal poverty level or less, the equivalent of about $33,000 a year for a family of four.” (http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/Planned_Parenthood_Who_We_Are.pdf)
And to offer you some statistics:
“In a fact sheet last updated in March 2011, the group lists the following breakdown of its services:
Contraception (including reversible contraception, emergency contraception, vasectomies and tubal sterilizations): 4,009,549 services
Sexually transmitted infections testing and treatment: 3,955,916 services
Cancer screening and prevention: 1,830,811 services
Other women’s health services (including pregnancy tests and prenatal care): 1,178,369 services
Abortions: 332,278 procedures
Miscellaneous (including primary care and adoption referrals): 76,977
Total services: 11,383,900
By this tally, abortions accounted for just under 3 percent of the procedures Planned Parenthood provided in 2009, which is the most recent year for which the group is reporting statistics.” (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/08/jon-kyl/jon-kyl-says-abortion-services-are-well-over-90-pe/)
Like or Dislike: 9 7
I just want to clarify that the Mitchell Food Pantry and the Salvation Army commonly get confused as one entity, but in fact are two separate organizations. The Mitchell Food Pantry, Inc. is a 501c3 organization that was organized 30 some years ago by the Ministerial Alliance in Mitchell. The Mitchell Food Pantry, Inc. rents space and pays utilities to the Salvation for what they use. It is a great partnership between the two nonprofits.
Like or Dislike: 9 0
Ms. Kristy, Thank you. I’m happy to address your question. First let me say that any comparison of Planned Parenthood with the Salvation Army would be an argument by False Analogy, another obvious fallacy.
One is a Christian church denomination who’s primary goal is to help the needy just as Christ commanded. They take their marching orders seriously. A church which primarily stays out of the political lobby arena, and at least to my knowledge, does not involve itself in shaping political or social policies in this country. To be sure, they do hold some fundamentalist mainstream Christian beliefs about certain moral issues and they stand on those issues the best they can. They could be closely compared with Methodism in doctrine.
The other is an organization built, at least originally, on the principles of eugenics and population control of the undesirable among us. I’m sure they have changed their mission statement since the early days to keep it more politically correct but I wonder how many people have read any of the doctrine of Margaret Sanger. It’s really quite astonishing. It’s been said that the Nazi party used much of Sanger’s material as inspiration for their own efforts in eugenics. Regardless, I think you’ll agree that Planned Parenthood (while arguably doing some good somewhere) by and large, have a goal even today of shaping public policy with regard to social issues involving abortion, reproduction and sexuality.
I pretty much know where my donation is going and how it will be used by the Salvation Army. I’m not at all that convinced how my money will be used if I donate to Planned Parenthood. Will it go to lobbying efforts to influence legislation that I’m against? I’ve read some Sanger. The woman was plain evil.
Now, if you want to compare apples to apples, let’s say Anew UCC church had a kettle to raise money for needy kids in South Dakota. Let’s say I know for certain that money is going to the kids. Let’s say Anew UCC Church has done it in the past and has a good track record of donations getting to where they are supposed to go. Would I give money, in spite of my objections to certain doctrine that I know the church espouses? That’s a question more apropos to our current discussion.
The answer is yes I would. Why not? Now if Anew was going to use that money for lobbying purposes or to advocate for public policy change, then no. Can you see the difference?
As to your original question, the answer is plainly no, based on the aforementioned reasons. I should have been more clear. No one should be compelled to give to any organization which actively lobbies for social policy change with which we do not agree. I appreciate you asking and allowing me to clarify.
Like or Dislike: 5 3
Mr. Handy: That is awesome! You can send your donation to PO Box 321 Mitchell, SD 57301. The Anew UCC is currently gathering winter items for poverty children living on the reservation. These children receive 100% of the proceeds due to no overhead costs.
Are you interested?
Like or Dislike: 5 0
I again commend your logic. You appear to be able to theorize most anything to fit your purposes, which we all are; however, human life is, at times, illogical.
I can sit and think through your response and post a logical statement refuting your comparison of the Nazi movement and Planned Parenthood, but I will not. Moreover, I could express the reality that a church must hold its tax exempt status by not becoming involved in the political process ie lobbying, but I will not. And I could question you on the following, “Kinda nice to see someone take a real moral stand once in a while and not bow down to the politically correct pressures of our increasingly God-less society.” But I will not.
The reality, Mr Handy, is that human life does not always fit into an ethical theory nor does it fit into a completely logical argument. There are women in this country who need reproductive health and they cannot afford it. Should the Salvation Army provide it? Would you feel it is logical and/ or ethical to have the church provide female reproduction options based on your male prejudicial view of women and their rights?
Moreover, the Salvation Army is the mother organization of Volunteers of America, an organization that I worked for for several years. VOA broke away from the Salvation Army due to its discrimination of women in leadership. Now they have obviously changed their stance. Could we assume that this change was due to a courageous few who spoke for equality?
You continue to argue based on logic, but would you when sitting across from a women in desperate need of breast cancer care tell her that due to your logic, you will have to call the Salvation Army? Or how about your daughter who has been raped. Would you send her to the Salvation Army to receive care? You see, Mr. Handy, there are times that entities like the Salvation Army cannot meet the ills of our society and until they are willing to, I will continue to support those that have the courage to do so.
Like or Dislike: 1 0
We should both continue to earnestly seek God’s will and make our best effort, day by day, to do it. All the money and the cattle on a thousand hills belongs to Him anyway.
Like or Dislike: 2 0
Click here to cancel reply.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
To start connecting please log in first. You can also create an account.
Topics is proudly provided by the Forum Communications Company