After Newtown shootings, calls for more focus on mental health
December 22, 2012 at 11:17 pm in Grand Forks Herald
Experts in North Dakota, Minnesota say stigma of mental health and shortage of psychiatrists hamper adequate response. Continue Reading
Register nut-jobs, not guns.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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The mayor of West Burlington, Iowa believes the nut jobs are the gun owners. People just want to put the blame on something. If guns were banned this crap and worse would still happen.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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No one is talking about banning guns. This is where the gun debate goes off the rails. The pro-gun people will not concede that most everybody is simply talking about military style weaponry and huge magazines. Let me repeat, nobody is talking about banning guns.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Yes I know … let me repeat … yes I know.
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So what’s your point, devilschild? So what’s your point, devilschild?
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Glenn … or is it Glen? No … I was right the first time …it’s Glenn. My point is no matter what is banned people find a way to get it. What did the old timers do during prohibition? How is the war on drugs working out?
Google “How To Make A Gun” and you will find an article with a picture of Ted Kaczynski’s homemade pistol. Nearby is a link to an article on how to make a bomb. The information is on the internet where anyone can see it.
Another problem is sentencing guidelines. Take the guy in Rochester, NY who ambushed the firemen … for example. He killed his grandmother with a hammer and only served 17 years. Is her life only worth 17 years? I think he should have never gotten out of prison.
And Dru’s killer …. he had a violent past with women yet he didn’t have to seek treatment while incarcerated. He could decline it. No treatment … so how did he get out? He shouldn’t have.
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Your point that if guns are banned, it wouldn’t matter is a moot point because, I repeat, nobody is seriously talking about doing that.
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Not quite right DC…If they take it seriously like with explosives you’d see less around. Of course the military type guns would be more difficult to regulate than explosives, but they can amke a difference regardless. This out dated philosophy that “They’ll find a way to get them…So there’s no sense in regulating them further.” Just wont work any more…Too many bodies have piled up to continue to say nothing will work. What we have now is what isn’t working.
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No I believe in the philosophy that without guns we will still have mayhem. Just of a different variety. Tell me Tundrabeast … how do we stop arson?
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How do we stop diarrhea? It too is a tough undertaking, but a big problem non the less…..I mean if we want to really go out to the ozone with arguments
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Wow. How does one prepare themselves for this question? Ah … Great Beast … I would suggest changing your diet. Another preventitive would be to wash your hands frequently to rid yourself of germs. That is all I got. Nice side-step on the arson question.
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Not any more than yours was. I was just doing an apples to oranges like you…..By the by…Even though mine wasn’t really serious…Rice and cheese are fairly good to plug things up…
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You may not be talking about banning ALL guns, but you certainly talking about banning some guns based on their shape. So YES, you are talking about banning guns.
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“Shape?” That’s what you boil it down to? I don’t think any of us give a rats ass if it looked like some little girls bunny slippers……If in the end it was a weapon of mass destruction…..Weapons of mass destruction is what the primary issue is….We don’t need them…..
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Other than magazine capacity it is the only real difference between these guns and any other semi automatic gun.
The two easiest ways to address this is limit capacity in detachable magazines and/or end the sale of new guns with detachable magazines. The shape of the gun is not a factor and that is what gets most people excited. Because the gun “looks” mean and dangerous.
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Maybe they should be designed to look like little girls bunny slipper..Pink and all……”Say hello to my little wabbit friends”
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If you actually what more guns out here unregisterd, then you should be the first to register according to your point. Less registered guns means easier access to weapons by everyone including the very people nobody wants to have guns. Easier access is only good for those who have the biggest potential to use weapons in a criminal manner. Is that what you’re avocataing? Make it easier for the worse possible individuals to get guns?
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If people do not want to have guns, that is their business. But do not deny others their right to self defence and their practicing of the Second Amendment.
Those that do not want guns, are welcome to post a “We are a Gun Free Home” on the front of their home. Let the thugs know upfront that there are no guns in the home. See where disarmament gets you.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away…
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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NOBODY IS EXCEPT THE NRA PROPAGANDA YOU KEEP BUYING INTO
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I admire your persistence in trying to bring some sanity to this discussion, but you are beating your head against a wall.
I agree with you and have argued with relatives and close friends who disagree. They feel that if they give an inch, the gun control wackos will take a mile. While they may be right about the gun control wackos wanting to remove all weapons, they simply don’t realize that those of us somewhere in the middle would strongly resist any attempt to remove all weapons. If the choice were no guns at all versus allowing the current conditions, I’d go with the current. However, there are reasonable options to the free-for-all that currently exists.
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There are 7 billion people in the world.
There are 311.6 million people in the united States.
There are 600 million guns in the world.
There are 300 million guns in the United States.
The United States has less that 4.5% of the worlds population.
So why do we have or need one half of the worlds supply of guns?
How can guns not be a problem when so many people die from the result of being shot with guns in this country?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“The United States has less that 4.5% of the worlds population.
So why do we have or need one half of the worlds supply of guns?”
So much of the rest of the world is disarmed by their corrupt governments.
“How can guns not be a problem when so many people die from the result of being shot with guns in this country?”
How can spoons and forks not be a problem when so many people are overweight?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Nice way to take it to extremes…Ok…Then put it this way…Why is it that amoung the civilized industrial nations of the world that Americans seem to have a bigger concern about safety and needing guns then the other nations. Then again with those huge concerns gun violence has become extreme especially compared to all the other countries who aren’t armed to the teeth? See a cooralation yet? More guns, equals more fear, equals more guns, equals more fear…..and on and on….We’ve become stuck in a trap of our own making…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Right on. I remember a description Dennis Hopper used in portraying his drug-induced paranoia. He said one morning he realized that he had locked himself into his bedroom, back against a corner with multiple guns at his side and yet he trembled with fear and the certain knowledge that someone was out to get him. That’s the place we’re headed with this gun escalation. Actual threats of gun violence just don’t match up with our paranoid response of increasing gun ownership.
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118 comments on the nra wanting armed gaurds. Close to 200 comments on ccw and the pistol packing mayor. 18 comments on here 17 referring to gun control. Only 2 comments actually referring to mental health.
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We have 2 issues to deal with when it comes to mental health. 1. People with diagnosed mental health issues. Or 2. Perfectly law abiding citizens that pump their bodies full of drugs and alcohal and go crazy some night. The question is how do we keep these people from harming others?
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I think mental health issues usually come down to cost. In the 80′s Reagan shut down many of the facillities that helped people with psychological problems. Many of them ended up on the streets homeless. The availability for even out patient services for the poor has been cut away time and again because of budget cuts over and over again. Mental health isues would be a great job for the first lady to promote. I know she’s promoting healthy diets, but it would be great if she’d decide to bring a better public awareness to needing more services available to people who can’t afford them otherwise. Hell…..how many people commit suicide every year because they don’t have a lot of places to turn to? That in itself should have had someone promoting services a long time ago.
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Okay … well now you are onto something. Please add not allowing criminals who commit murder to get out of jail … ever … to your comment.
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In theory you have a point. My guess is you’re referring to those who are found to be incompetant at the time of their crimes because of some psychological problems. Often this happens when someone has gone off psycotropic medication and often gets instructions to kill someone. I agree, but then how about the many people who shoot innocent people out of this growing fear that keeps getting encouraged. There’s the case in FL where a kid in a hoodie with Skitles and a soda was killed. A couple years ago another case down there where an Asian kid who was lost rang a door bell and the home owner shot firrst before even finding out what the kid wanted. A homeless guy who approached a car to panhandle who was shot dead before he reached the car, and it was excused because of that foolish right to shoot law like FL has…The kill them if they scare you law. Those people are given a 007 license and are often even exempt from civil suits.
While I agree that those who kill while deeply disturbed should be kept in some type facillity (Often these aren’t career criminals and don’t survive prison), but I think all those 007 laws need to be extremely reined in on the federal level, because as they are now they allow too many scared people who own guns to kill someone as a result of their fears….And get away with it. Two of the worse gun owners are those who have no problem killing humans and those who are always afraid of being a victim to a point that they can only go out armed and extremely dangerous.
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Well if you lived in a part of the country where crime is prevalent you may think differently about strangers knocking on your door. What happened is wrong to the young Asian kid but I know from living in Michigan for twenty odd years that bad people break into people’s homes. I used to live near Hell about forty miles from Detroit. We had to watch ourselves when we traveled to and from the big city. We got tired of it and moved to the UP. Now we worry less but since we have no near neighbors we are virtually on our own. There is a sheriff but he lives about forty miles away. He was at the gun range one day about two years ago when my family was there. I guess he doesn’t shoot to straight. The kids nicknamed him “The Shakiest Gun in the UP”. My husband calls him Don Knotts. Not alot of confidence there. If something were to happen … would you wait for this guy to arrive?
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I was just in Detroit a couple weeks ago….Guns!!!! Hell…You have more of a likelyhood of getting hit by the crazy ass drivers out there. I’ve heard for several years now that MI and Detroit in particular has such high unemployment that people are just dropping everything and moving away. It’s hard to see with the consistent mega traffic everywhere.
My company basically does very little produce anymore since we switched to elogs so we can’t cheat like hell to do a three day run in two days (Don’t miss it either) I usede to go into some of the older parts of Detroit starting around 0300 or 0400. It was pretty damn spooky down there at times. But I’ve generally found that places like Detroit, Chicago, and basically all big cities…You have rough areas where you really might want such protection if you’re so inclined, but then there’s the vast majority of the rest of those cities where it’s not high crime areas.I go all over Chicago all the time, and for the most part I don’t worry about most of the places. Back when they had the old Water Market for produce down town that was one of the scariest areas I’ve ever been to. I think they moved it, but that might be one of the places I’d consider having a gun if I didn’t worry more about shooting somebody out of fear when I didn’t need to. To be honest…Fearful people with guns worry me much more than criminals in most situations….
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Are you talking about the kid with Skittles that was killed in self defense by the guy he attacked?
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I mean the kid with skittles who was defending himself like a man would against a stalker who then showed his real colors and shot an unarmed kid because he was afraid that this smaller kid who he was stalking might hurt him….That’s the one…The biggest wussy of the year….
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I’m sure those cuts and bruises on Mr. zimmerman’s head came after he shot his attacker.
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Its not so much that help is not available to the mentally ill that is a small part of the picture… It is that many mentally ill people REFUSE to get help or TAKE medication. Getting them to do so is a very difficult thing to do under current law.
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That is one of thoe real slippery slope areas. Someone needing drugs to quite the voices in their head that often tell them to do thins that will harm themselves or others generally can’t be ordered to have the drug administered to them unless they’ve committed a crime. So there’s really little that can be done. The slippery slope would be to order those who show a potential to be harmful, but haven’t done so yet….How long after that would there be advocates to make people with things like high blood pressure or such have to get their drugs administered to them so that they actually take them daily (I just might end up on that list….I just forget sometimes…..Good memory…Just real short…)
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I hear voices everyday. Right now one is telling me to eat chocolate. Not just one piece either. I’m ignoring it and going for a walk instead.
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I read somwhere a while back that there’s something in chocolate that actually effects women differently then men. Apparently chocolate is far more pleasurable to you women so there’s some truth in women feeling addicted to their cravings for it……..I guess the real pick up place should be Widmans then?
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A former girlfriend of mine told me chocolate was a substitute for sex……….the amount of money I spent on flowers would make a dent in the national debt.
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Your fears of the big bad boogy man robbing you while driving down the streets of minneapolis, new your, detroit or miami are based on your own insecurities. Unless you are dealing drugs or being active in any other gang activity you are pretty safe no matter where you are located in these large cities.
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If we’re to have a serious debate about mental health, it’s going to have to start with how to fund services in such a manner that they are truly effective. Over the past three years, states have cut $4.3 billion from mental heath services. So I guess the big question is this – If we’re going to use mental health as a scapegoat for our “head-up-the-butt” mentality when it comes to reasonable firearms regulation, how will treatment be paid for? Most private insurers off little or, more likely, zero benefits for mental health while states are forced to cut mental health budgets to appease the anti-tax crowd (which also harbors the greater share of those who oppose any meaningful firearms regulations).
So, again I ask, directing my question at those who would prefer to point out the lack of mental health services as the real problem behind our “head-up-the-butt” mentality towards gun regulations, where does the needed funding for mental health services come from?
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Read this book. http://www.amazon.com/Alone-With-Devil-Courtroom-Psychiatrist/dp/0553285203
It was originally published in 1989. Many of the laws have changed as well as the methods and procedures for metal evaluations. But what has not changed, and is pointed out in the book, is Judges and lawyers tend to do what they want regardless of what is best for the public’s safety.
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So say by some miracle that some from of gun control is issued and those with mental health problems are given access to mental heal services (I don’t know how that will ever happen since the gopers policy on health care is slash and burn).
Do we force mental health services on everyone? If we don’t, then what about those who don’t want it?
What do we do with the people who have mental health issues and seek help? Are they all denied the right to gun ownership or just certain types of mental health issues?
Mental health counseling and medication doesn’t always help. What do we do then? Blame and sue the counselors to hold them liable?
Many people have mental health issues and have never and will never pick up a gun and shoot people.
Mass murderers are a very small percentage of people with mental health problems.
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But then on the other hand we can either continue to do nothing with that kind of attitude that nothing works, or we go nuts and really push for a more armed public and make believe that’s the answer….When clearly a public that is so armed now is one with an ever increasing death toll due to bullets.
This on going argument to just leave well enough alone since nothing works……Just doesn’t cut it anymore…….Finally…
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Or do we pretend that an assault weapon ban similar to the one before is the answer in addition to mental health restrictions?
What about the loopholes? Would closing the loopholes help? Ban all high capacity magazines, manufactured past and present?
Closing the gun show loophole?
Do we take a closer look at the 2nd Amendment and reconsider it for the modern age?
The NRA is a strong lobbyist of the 2nd Amendment and gets money for the sale of every gun in addition to memberships.
Gun sales soar after the hysteria of each mass shooting, selling the exact type of guns in the spotlight, because people are afraid they won’t be able to buy them once they are banned and the NRA and gun manufacturers profits some more.
I think the key to any kind of gun legislation is to take down the NRA.
Or do we train all teachers to shoot and have them carry?
Ask the armed personal at Columbine and Virgina Tech how effective that was.
Not everyone is a marksman, not everyone will handle a gun for various reasons, and not everyone has the presence of mind to know when to use a gun.
How do we know that the next mass shooting won’t start from an angry teacher or student who gets a hold of the teachers gun? Teachers can’t even prevent students from stealing the classroom office supplies.
If a military gun style weapon ban with high capacity magazine ban and a mental health restriction and gun and high capacity weapon magazines were bought back from the government were to somehow be put into place, realistically, I don’t think it’ll will take that long for someone to commit the first mass murder after that. Guns and bullets will still be plentiful.
These mass shootings are random. How can you legislate randomness? Sadly there’s just too many variables.
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