NRA calls for armed police officers in every school
December 21, 2012 at 4:44 am in Grand Forks Herald
The nation’s largest gun-rights lobby is calling for armed police officers to be posted in every American school to stop the next killer “waiting in the wings.” Continue Reading
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I knew thier answer would be something where they could sell more guns. It’s time for politicians to decide. Who are you going to work to protect. The NRA and the gun lobbies who contribute campaign dollars for relection bids or the children and incocent victims of school and workplace assasinations. It’s time for every politician to go on the record regarding thier preference.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Obama and his staff have caused more gun sales in the past four years than anyone else in the history of the nation.
Try buying a gun right now, all the talk of Bans have people buying them like they are going out of style.
This guy just tried to tell you how to protect the kids inside the school, all you hear is what you want to hear.
Any ideas from you?
We would be all ears on how you would stop the next one from happening.
He offered up an armed guard at the door fighting fire with fire, whats your plan?
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Because a part time security guard to protect our kids is going to break the city?
At last check it was the Feds that couldnt figure out how to put together a budget not the local governments.
And the guy that gets the job would be one less person unemployed and at last check the unemployed cost the taxpayer money too.
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Because most schools have already made so many deep cuts and are on such a tight budget that to afford school patrols they either have to lose a teacher, or something else related to education. Or the will need to raise taxes. Put this to a vote tomorrow with the taxes and see if the public accepts it?
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There is no way schools could afford to hire a security guard, it’s not feasible. Want to prevent such things, Take a look at places no crazed idiot would dare enter to attempt such a thing. Restaurants, they wont, too many sharp utinsels! They wont go into a place where they risk being physically and weaponally outnumbered. I know a hotel clerk that pulled a gun on a robber walking up to the counter, he took off running back out the door.
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He’s not presenting ideas to protect children; he’s presenting ideas that will protect the gun industry. His job as lobbyist in chief for the NRA is to sell guns– period. Can you even imagine if he had stated one opinion that caused a drop in sales of guns? He wouldn’t have his job anymore. So he is proposing something that will sound good (many schools aready to this), but that will not cause one less gun to be sold.
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Obama and his staff have caused??????
When they have not proposed a single piece of legislation dealing with guns in his first 4 years how could they have caused the spike in sales?
The gun lobby spread the fear that Obama was going to take their guns away and THAT is what caused the increased sales – nothing that Obama did, but propaganda by gun companies to prey on the fear of people to increase gun sales, and they are laughing all the way to the bank.
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Like in “It’s A Wonderful Life” when a bell rings and angle get’s its wings…..When Obama’s name is spoken by the NRA there’s thousands of registar rings….So I guess they also help with getting angles wings…..What a great group…
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I dislike Wayne LaPierre. I pulled my membership in the NRA and told them at the time I wouldn’t rejoin as long as he was the head.
But given that… I certainly can’t disagree with him that an armed full time security guard wouldn’t be a decent idea. Not just to prevent mass shootings, but for many other reasons as well. Drug enforcement, bullying, better public realations with the kids, etc….
Certainly not the complete answer, but maybe a peice of the puzzle. Combine it with reasonable gun control laws, and better access to mental help. I’m not sure security guards need to be made mandatory, but certainly it is something that local school boards could look into implementing.
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and how hard would it be to find a retired person with a military or law enforcement background that could pass a deep background investigation.
It lowers the unemployment rate and puts a good guy there to protect our kids from the bad guys.
but the guy who actually suggested this idea is the Anti-christ for suggesting it?
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If you are going to go to every post and say the same thing then i’ll just say it once.
Read the initial response, one part time guard isnt going to break anyone and it employs a person.
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what do you consider a job that only works Aug – May with a ton of off days and holidays?
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Amazing. Has he ever been wounded with one of those guns he thinks need to surround all of our school children? Deadly force is what the mentally ill are able to access with assult weapons. How about we put just as much money into treatment and care of the mentally ill as we do into legislating assult rifles and pistols. I suggest a national buy back of assult weapons similar to Austrailia after they had a 35 person school shooting. They have had less massive death tolls. There is nothing wrong with reasonable gun legislation. Assult rifles are not reasonable.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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At $1000 to $1300 a piece I can think of better things to spend my money on than an AR15 Bushmaster assault rifle. If the government was willing to buy back some of these weapons I would go along with it but I don’t think it should be mandatory. The weapons would have to be destroyed though. I don’t want the FBI to sell them behind our backs to the Mexican cartel.
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So the nation is to adapt its stance on what YOU deem acceptable?
Can you tell me the difference between a person armed with an Assault Rifle and a person armed with two handguns?
Can you tell me how many lives would be spared?
How many lives were spared during the last Assault Rifle ban? hint… Columbine took place during that time period.
The man stood up and gave a plan that would work and no one wants to listen, they just want the world to be the perfect little utopia in their imagination.
Had an armed guard stood at the school doors on that day would there have been a better chance that the kids would still be alive?
Answer that question without lying to yourself and then get back to me.
Mentally unstable people are everywhere and no gun ban is going to stop them from getting a weapon.
As long as the President and his family get protection everywhere they go i too would like to know my child is safe while in school at least.
Go ahead and feign outrage over his statement but the fact is there has been ZERO ideas offered by anyone else that actually makes sense to the point that it may stop a killer.
A lot of schools already have Police officers at the school, want to guess how many mass killings have taken place at those schools?
So until you have a better idea for ensuring the safety of our kids maybe you should listen to the ideas being offered up because our kids dont have the luxury of hoping that you and your team of doctors can identify and fix every single mental health case in the nation.
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Wouldn’t have needed an armed guard… any law abiding citizen or worker with concealed to carry such as principal, janitor or superintendent would have worked just fine.
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Columbine had an armed guard.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html
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A visible armed guard won’t mean anything, Once one knows where the one on uniform stands, easy to get around the one. Need situations where there is concealed, don’t know who’s armed or how many. I am no believer in having a guard in uniform at any school.
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We have officers in some of our Schools around town. I think it works very well for them. But in all honesty until they get rid of the all glass facade fronts and build these things like a prison, schools will remain a soft target. Just like Malls, Movie Theaters, Churches, Nursing Homes or any other public gathering place.
We stand at a pinnacle, shred the Constitution and all it stands for and just turn over every weapon we own to the government, or we come up with some meaningful legislation that EVERYONE can live with. The first assault weapons ban didn’t work, in fact in most areas crime has DECREASED with assault weapons. (per 630POV on the TV last night, and since everyone else here believes 100% of what they see on TV, I guess I should as well).
Finally we start taking care of those who are mentally ill. We also need to start holding their families responsible for their activities.
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mav, I agree with most of what you have written but the Second Amendment refers to a “well-regulated militia.” No one in their right mind would refer to the countless nutcases with a plethora of military-type weapons as a “well-regulated militia.”
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I would agree to that.. On the other hand, I would consider myself to be part of that possible militia. I have military training, I was an expert shot and I’ve kept my skills up. I still hunt so I know I can hit a moving target.
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Unless you’re in the reserves you’d be pretty far down the list to call up when the day we all fear that Canada invades us actually occurs. They just can’t be that friendly without planning something…You just know it…
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tj moved to Canada so we have an inside gal. I’m sure if there is trouble she will warn us.
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Arming teachers makes about as much sense as arming flight crews. For airliners you prevent them from getting on and you have a nice door between the crew and the bad guy. Problem solved.
For schools this solution makes sense.
I do not support the NRA and I do not belong – although I own several firearms. They are a political organization committed to their own vision of America, one I do not subscribe to.
Just because I do not support them does not mean I reject a good idea when I see it
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Nurse, who ever said airlines don’t have at least one good piece of defense on board.
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I tip my hat to the sarcasm
. Post 9/11 many pilots did jump through the hoops to carry. Several even had accidental discharges. Pilot who pack are fairly rare anymore. I have not seen any recent statistics but I would be surprised if it was 25%.
Federal Marshalls are on many planes, mostly international flights. Again, I would be surprised if they even approached 10% of flights. There are simply too many flights.
You will not see anymore hijackings. That does not mean you will not see bombs. Those are still a very real threat, one we will eventually lose too. Not in mass numbers, but you do not need large numbers to cause panic.
The TSA reminds many people of the Soviet Border Police. This is one instance where I do not mind my rights getting a little bruised.
If you want a real “thorough” search before and after your flight, fly El Al. Top Secret clearances in the military get less scrutiny than an El Al passenger list. Don’t get me wrong, they are the consummate professionals. They know everything about you, they just do it in such a way you do not even realize your body cavities have been checked.
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Of the flights I’ve been on, I have noticed air marshalls on a few of them, I only fly domestic. As far as Pilots, I wont mention what percentage do have them, They are just warned to follow very specific rules how, where they are stored to avoid any sort of misfire and have gone through training. Big one is having chamber empty which is a no-brainer.
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Let’s see, 100,000 public schools, with a minimum of 1 cop in each at minimum $50,000 annual cost. That’s $5 billion and all you’d do is change the perp’s plans on who to shoot first. And even if it could save, say, 40 lives a year, that’s $125 million per life. That’s better economics than homeland security who’s already spent more than $500 billion. Quick question: are we still blaming Bush for the homeland security price tag, even though this is the fourth time President Obama has asked for the $60 Billion?
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Almost but not quite. About half of the schools in the nation already have Police Officers assigned to them.
This is simply expanding what is already in place.
I would rather have people who are trained and disciplined being armed around my kids than any of a number of rednecks I manage to see carrying today. The only saving grace with these jokers is they tend to either shoot themselves cleaning their guns or their own families.
Definitely not the folks I want carrying near a school
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Then how about this proposal.
Since a childs life isnt worth the added security in your eyes ( i’m guessing you would feel differently if it was your child that just died) then we just stop all the media yammering and go back to business as usual.
No security and we will continue to hinge our kids safety on hope.
Hope that today isnt the day a mental headcase walks in and shoots the place up.
I’ll at least give you credit in that you at least submitted an idea. Hope
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Overall, our worst enemy right now is the news media and talk radio. Not worth listening or watching either until all this is blown over also avoiding channels that allow commercials asking for donations. (PPTV is exemption)
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Does anyone believe that one armed guard in even a small school can be everywhere at once, covering every door, the gym, the playground, and the school buses? Most of the mass murderers were very intelligent in addition to being deranged. We aren’t going to be able to stop them.
However, we could give the cops a fighting chance by reducing the number of semi-automatic rifles with 30+ round magazines.
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The shooter at Newtown killed himself as soon as he heard the police closing in. An armed gaurd can´t be everywhere at once, but could be anywhere in seconds after hearing shots fired and could save many lives.
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There is no point in having an armed guard, It wont solve anything. Want to add mystery, have an undetermined number of license to carry personnel within the school, but must be very well concealed. Best to far outnumber anyone trying to attempt such a thing again.
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I’m not much of a hunter and do not belong to the NRA and I really have no clue how this president or his organization works. What I am very sure of, though, is that he hit the nail directly on the head. “In a race to the bottom, many conglomerates compete with one another to shock, violate, and offend every standard of civilized society, by bringing an even more toxic mix of reckless behavior and criminal cruelty right into our homes.” The people who commit these murders are mentally ill and I believe evil does exist within them. We are lying to ourselves when we do not blame ourselves as a society for glorifying violence and promoting lifestyles of excess. We give awards to pro athletes who have criminal records for gun related offenses and demostic violence, we promote music videos about “hustlin” and gangbanging, and we alllow video games that resemble very closly to real life graphics of killing people. Now, we as a socitey cannot figure out why this is happening in real life. We also have the media who swarm events, interview little children after these masacres, and profit from these events while acting like they truly care. Fox news or CNN, they’re both in the business of making money and unfortunately, events like these are harvest for these vultures. I’m angry, but I’m angry because nobody, particularly politicians, have the guts to call this spade a spade.
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Well said, george, well said.
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I’ll add to the list–drugs. And I’m not talking street drugs, I’m talking Ritalin. The cure all for kids who act like kids. The long term effects are still not known, however each year there is a dramatic increase in the number of children, as young as 6yrs old, being prescribed Ritalin. Is it any wonder we have these shootings in this country? 90% of all Ritalin prescribed worldwide is prescribed in the USA. Along with all the nasty side effects and the fact that it’s highly addictive, it also causes atrophy of the brain. A study conducted in Canda conclded that at the end of five years, hyperactive children who received Ritalin did not differ significantly from children who had not received Ritalin. Although it appeared that hyperactive kids treated with Ritalin were initially more manageable, the degree of improvement and emotional adjustment was essentially identical at the end of five years to that seen in a group of kids who had received no medication at all. Solution? How about some good old fashion discipline and let’s skip turning kids at an early age into addicts. When my son was in middle school it was suggested I take him to a physician to see if he needed to be medicated because he didn’t pay attention in math class. His explanation to me was that he thought math was boring. I opted to not allow him to hang out with his friends, watch television or turn on his computer until his math assignments were completed correctly every night. Math suddenly became much more interesting and a trip to the physician for medication wasn’t necessary after all–cough cough. In my day teachers and parents had the solution for ADHD, if there really is such a thing, and it wasn’t in pill form.
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Vince, I completely agree with you. Our society has become one of instant gratification (medicate, don’t be a parent) and one that tries to be too politically correct. Kids need some punishment when they misbehave. I’m not talking beating them behind the woodshed, but they need to be reprimanded if they do not stay on task and are disrespectful. Kids need to toughen up a little bit, not everyone can make the A team or be on varsity, that is just life.
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“Gangbanging” is in a diferent catagory and venue generally. You have “Bangers” Whio do gang violence, but I don’t think they refer to themselves as “gangbanging” because of the other meaning of the word. Sounds pretty damn funny acutully…..”Let’s go ganbang those guys…We’ll screw them up real good…..We’ll gangbang them like they’ve never been gangbanged before….Nobody will be walking straight when we’re done with them…etc…etc…etc……”
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My proof reader must be off for Christmas….What? I have to do my own……?
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This is what’s wrong with America: We’ve allowed special interest groups to become inappropriately relevant. Why are we even caring what the NRA thinks? Or any other special interest groups. Wake up people!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I dont hear anyone saying they care what the NRA thinks.
I hear you trying to convince people that the organization is evil simply because they advocated an armed guard at the schools to protect the children.
If i had to base my decision on who was and wasnt competent to be speaking right now i would choose the one who issued a plan, an idea, over he one who is just yammering on with no real purpose.
I would love to hear what YOU have in mind to stop the killings though.
Its been two straight days i have asked that question and not one single person that is bashing gun owners and the NRA has submitted even one single idea.
Until the time comes that you have a better idea i would just as well you turn off your computer or at least unplug your keyboard.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Capt. is FAR from liberal. Did you not read any of his banter before the election? Or is your memory that short? Out of either of us I would be considered more liberal.. I own weapons, I’m an independent. I voted for Heidi. But banning weapons isn’t the answer.
Can you prove to me that the previous assault weapons ban worked? No.. Newtown was a tragedy.. a horrible horrible tragedy.. But taking away our guns isn’t going to bring those kids back. Taking away our weapons isn’t going to stop the next tragedy. All it is going to do is make them use something else, and something that probably exploded?
You know what? That scares me.. Because instead of morning 26 people I’ll be morning 100, or 1000 or 10,000. Do you actually realize how many soft targets there are in just Fargo or Grand Forks? I can name of at LEAST 50.
You people keep on blaming the gun and not the crazy ass shooter.. Do something about the crazy, not the implement. If you take away my guns, you need to stop using planes, trains and automobiles. You need to start walking everywhere you go… Because everyone of those items has been used either in an attempt or a successful massacre.
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Sorry I read between the lines.. the whole ‘NRA defend anything’..
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Maverick, the NRA is standing up for the right of the law abiding citizen, one that has no criminal record to own a gun if they wish to do so. I have a few myself, wont give them up for anything, but am looking to buy another.
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@ed – question.. did you only read the above comment to scooter or have you actually read anything that I’ve written in the last couple of days or on this forum topic?? Reason I ask is that your comment seems to reflect that I don’t support what they NRA said or gun owners rights..
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just reinforcing it. I am quite tired of scooters anti NRA thoughts. We do need them to protect our rights, to keep other nations from taking away our rights through other wacky treaties.
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The Cabela’s Dec 13-19 newspaper insert has an .223 AR with 30-round magazine for $800. Their Dec 20-24 insert — under the banner “great gifts for the youth hunter” has a Century Arms 7.62 x 39 AK lookalike with 30-round magazine for $600. Great gifts huh?
If the NRA and most people think an armed guard in every school is the antidote to nuts with such weapons, then OK — but here’s my plan:
- Add 25% tax to every gun sold to pay for those guards.
Who’s for that?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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So why are you blaming the NRA for a Cabellas add?? You guys want me to call a spade a spade.. Fine, you are off your rocker.
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Instead of hiring more police to protect our schools, why not employ returning military personnel? They already have more experience with crazies and combat than any other field, plus they’ve already proven that they will sacrifice their lives for others.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Well you have a point, but you’d want them really tested and trained at some level of law enforcement. I mean hyou’re right…They’ve been in combat and had to deal with war situations….That really doesn’t automatically make them a good candidate for carrying a gun as a guard without making sure their first reaction in some tense situation isn’t to shoot right away like in a war zone. I’m not sure what that might be, but I’ve heard returning vets generally have to really be tested for that if they plan to go into law enforcement. You’d want that assurance if guarding the school too.
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Rules of engagement (ROE) change all the time in the military. One day you can fire upon anything that presents a treat to you, the next day you cannot fire unless fired upon first. The military is trained to adapt to changing threat situations.
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Yes, but you still need those who served under fire to be checked out just to be on the safe side. I know there’s many who become law enforcement and can handle it, but my point is that just because someone served really doesn’t mean they should be able to step into the role without first being vetted much in the same manner as future law enforcement. I don’t have any idea what guards have to do in the first place to be guards. I’m hoping there is some course they have to pass before they get a liscense or such that allows them to be an armed guard. Does anyone know what they need before they can be official guards?
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To some folks you are only relevant if you are holding a gun in your hand. It’s like some people seem to feel naked without one. I don’t undertand this seeming insecurity and where it comes from. Guns are not the answer to all of our problems and more guns is not necesarily better than fewer guns. I think America is proof of that.
This is a complex issue that involves many factors including the security at school buildings, the types of weapons, ammunition and accesories to guns that the average citizen has access to. The current poor state of our medical system to deal with people that have mental issues is also a big factor. The violence in TV, movies and video games is out of control, It;s almost like all of these media are owned by the criminal element and that they want us to get used to the fact that violence is a normal part of our lives. Well, it’s not. It’s abnormal.
The fact that folks are aware of people who have severe mental problems and don’t always report the problem or get the people that need help into treatment is a problem. The mother of the latest guy spent 3 nights a week in a bar and everyone at the bar knew the son was trouble. Perhaps she should have spent the time getting her son into treatment. Perhaps she should have taken the guns out of the home until he got help. To me she was an enabler to him. Unfortunatley she too paid with her life.
It’s a complex issue and it’s unreasonable to expect the NRA to come up with any meaningful solutions other than there should be more guns out there. That’s what they do. They sell guns. They represent the gun makers.
I hope politicans and citizens can have a meaningful discusion of solutions to the problems of violence in America. Maybe they can work hard for solutions for the past and future victims of gun violence. Maybe they can realize that being bought and paid for by the gun lobby is not a thing they could be proud of.
Instead, they should be proud to be involved in protecting our children and citizens against an ever increasing problem of the increase in violence in the US.
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” Guns are not the answer to all of our problems”. Very true but they are the solution I want to be able to have if I choose when someone is shooting in my general direction as opposed to kissing my #@* goodby.
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Folks, this really isn’t some brand new idea the NRA is dreaming up. School Resource Officers, which are basically just a police officer that is stationed on a school campus, are being used already. My local North Dakota school district just hired one this year on a half time basis. They budgeted $23,000 dollars to pay for an officer to spend about 4-6 hours per day on a rotation between the districts two school buildings. The officer helps with the DARE program, interacts with the kids, and is a great resource for any law enforcement issues that arise. He acts as a preemptive to crime as well as being reactive when necessary.
We have police on patrol all the time, all day long. Is it really that big of a stretch to have them patroling directly in our schools? Like I said above, it’s not the only answer to the problem, but it certainly might be part of the answer.
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In MN for example there’s many schools operating on such a tight budget that 23K is like someone surviving on minimum wage having a 23K expense. Unless the public is willing to up the taxes to pay for all these guards then teachers have to go. In many schools they’re already down to the lowest amount of teachers they need per student count. So do you cut courses or raise taxes? The latter seldom seems to pass.
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You can dislike the reality all you want, but if this course of action is what you really want, then the money for it has to come from someplace. Yo9u either cut more into the eductaion that has no room for cuts or you raise taxes. You might hate this reality…But there it is. If you disagree, then tell me a different reality….
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Good points Glen…Maybe that would be a solution.
As for those who automatically clicked dislike on that last one….Isn’t it time you used logic instead of emotion? You might not like it, but it’s the truth. All you have to do is pay attention to basically any school spending issue to see what I said is the truth. It’s generally not the parent’s who buck spending, but the rest of the community who needs to be convienced.
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I wonder how many parents would protest having to pay a little more tax to put a cop in their school???
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Generally it’s not the parent’s you have to win over. It’s mostly those who no longer have childern (Or never did) in the system who can’t see their taxes go up for something they don’t need. Hell…Just look at all the decent on these boards when they have anything about school spending. That’s who has to be convienced that they need to raise taxes for armed guards at all the schools. Schools closer to the event would most likely have a lot of support, but those further from it will have a very tough sell when looking at the numbers.
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True to a point, but many are grandparents with grand kids in school and I am one of those with no children so it is possible there is the support needed. The small rural schools could contract with count sheriffs office much like many small towns without city police do. You get a better trained officer that way and it would cost the school district less.
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The headline might as well read – “NRA Calls for Police State”. It’s OK as long as it comes from the NRA but if the government had proposed it the NRA would have asked everyone to purchase more guns because we can’t trust the Government. With the NRA the answer is always more guns. There really is no thinking involved. It’s the stock answer to all of our problems. We have more guns than any other nation and we are also one of the most violent. It dosen’t seem to solve the problem. The US is a testament to that.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Earlier capt opined:
“A lot of schools already have Police officers at the school, want to guess how many mass killings have taken place at those schools?”
I’ll guess at least one — Columbine (I just checked).
If you are still in favor of armed guards capt, let us know whether you also agree with my idea for a 25% tax on gun sales to pay for them.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Justasec: you are right and wrong about Columbine. They did have security, but not armed. Also, Columbine was a game changer. Prior to Columbine police were told to quarantine: secure the area and then SWAT or an organized force of officers conducts a sweeping operation.
Because of the lessons learned from Columbine, active shooter scenarios are handled completely different. Officers literally do barge in ready to kill.
Columbine was a nasty, nasty, lesson. Just like 9/11 nothing like that had ever happened before so the rule book proved unhelpful.
The lessons of Columbine have been put to good use. The most famous case would be the Ft. Hood shooting, where a civilian DOD employee ran to the shooting instead of concentrating on containment.
Like anything else, the bad guys evolve as well. The Virginia Tech shooter chained the doors to prevent the first arriving officers from interfering. Definitely one case where an armed student might have made a difference.
Then again, the nut job that shot Congresswoman Giffords obtained all of his guns and ammo legally.
It goes both ways
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You have me on a mission now Just. I have found a source that says the security guards were armed at Columbine and another that says they were not. The Police Officer that usually is at that school was gone that day (court I think).
It does not change a thing, but now you have me curious
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i believe the real story is that there was an armed sheriff’s deputy assigned to Columbine. At the time of the initial attack he was eating lunch in his car in a parking lot. Once the shooting started, at some point he exchanged gunfire with one of the attackers, but missed. He was able to call for backup, and another deputy that was about a mile away arrived quickly as well. But, because the two gunmen had already gained entry and the deputies were outside, they weren’t very effective in stopping the attack before many were killed.
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/21/columbine_armed_guard_colorado_shooting_shows_that_nra_s_shield_program.html
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Do not forget the other factor with the mental health issue. When the laws were change by liberals to protect the mentally ill it has had an unintended result. It is very very very difficult to force someone to get treatment if they do not want it. It has also become very difficult to report it because on HIPPA. Unless a mental health professional can prove they person is dangerous to them self or others(not think) they can do nothing. They have to be able to prove it in court. And the standards are strict to protect the individual who is mentally ill not society.
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Maybe it’s time for parents to pay a security fee of roughly $50 per pupil each school year. I believe that alone would fund the additional security.
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That might have a better chance than raising taxes. But I see the prices of things today (Especially fuel and food) Man…I really don’t know how a lot of them are making it today. Another $50 for a lot of young parents might be a really big deal if their budgets are tight already. I swear I really don’t know how some young families make it with everything so damn high and climbing
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Think about how much money this tragedy has cost each of the victim’s families. It seems relatively cheaper to higher more security for our children. I would also like to see schools designed with an escape door in every classroom. Those kids were trapped inside their classrooms.
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I agree, but the other reality is that there are a lot of famlies who are on extremely tight budgets the way it is. An extra $50 might not seem to monumental to you or me, but it most certainly is to a lot of young families. It’d basically need to be taxes where it’s a much smaller bite all the way around. Granted there’d still be some extremely tight Ogres who would object, but I think the rest of us would see it as an expense we could live with if it might help others live because of it….Still…It’s a damn shame we’ve arrived at this point…
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As far as finding money for a security guard, you do not have to fire a teacher or cut an academic program.
Cut into the sports program for the funding.
Drop one or two sports and there will be money for a security guard.
Also, I do not see where $50,000 a year is needed for a security guard in North Dakota. School terms are around 9 months. The other 3 months, the security guard can work summer maintenance (wax floors, mow the football field, etc.) and be payed from the maintenance budget.
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I think that’s along the same lines of my touting getting a law requiring eveyone needs to carry a weapon…….Never in a blue moon….
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Nra’s. Solution to gun violence…more guns?
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Kind of like tossing gas on a gas fire……
Hot debate. What do you think?
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You know Mr. Beast … the fire service uses fire to fight fire.
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Not too often. I think it’s pretty difficult to control because you’re trying to burn out a section before the other fire can continuse to burn foreward, but if the wind is already pushing it that way it’s tough to do. I don’t know a lot about it, but I don’t think the phrase “Fight fire with fire” actually comes from a action that’s used very frequently.
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The sad part about this whole discussion is the reason for it is being lost. Gun control is a perennial hot potato. It has been as long as I can remember.
I was at work when the story first broke, and our pilot, a retired cop was ranting and raving about people wanting to take away guns before the scope of the tragedy was even realized.
People were locked and loaded before the shootings even occurred. The why and how are secondary and irrelevant to them. They are simply running a script that was written well in advance.
Before the NRA made their statement I said the same thing on these boards and received a favorable response (trained people vs untrained volunteers). I also cited all of the recent unjustifiable shootings as evidence that John Q. Citizen is not all he/she is cracked up to be.
I do not believe in taking John Q. Citizen’s guns away, I just don’t necessarily trust them around me or my children. Their decision making capability has been repeatedly shown to be in question.
Following the NRA announcement there has been a barrage of criticism, not of the proposal (most people can see some form of that happening) but their foray into the video game – culture of violence spiel.
To say they did not think that through is an understatement. America has a culture of violence. As a result we need to arm everyone.
I do not belong or support the NRA, even though I own several guns.
Their behavior following this incident is another reason why me and Moses do not see eye to eye on this organization.
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We have had mass shootings in a mall, a movie theatre, an office, and a school within the past year. So if I apply the NRA’s logic, we need armed guards in every mall movie theatre office and school. This is an immpossible and uneccesary reaction. Many small towns have a hard enough time keeping officers to patrol the town let alone hiring another to patrol the schools. Many small schools can barely afford to operate yet the nra wants to add another unneccesarry expense. Let alone most young officers went to the acedamy to becaome officers on patrol not to sit in a school waiting for a threat that is so extremly astronomical. We need to find real solutions to our recent acts of violence. We need to find ways to have families ask for help and most of all these young people ways to ask for help. instead of increasing our defense budget we need to increase our mental health budgets!
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When you read up on where the problems are in mental health, it is because of one several areas
1) People don’t seek treatment because of the stigma attached
2) Only the rich or the poor really get treatment. The rich because they can pay the bill, the poor because they have medicaid. Everyone else pretty much falls through the cracks
3) If someone doesn’t want help they can AMA and nobody can force them back into care until they either harm themselves or someone else
That has been true since I was in nursing school well over 20 years ago. Now you add the new Hippa regulations since then, I can imagine how hard it is to get someone into treatment.
I do agree that this is the place to start.
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I really don’t know the status of the Human Services departments in GF and other cities, but I know that at one time they did provide a lot of counselling for those who really couldn’t afford it on their own. Unfortunatelly it’s those kinds of programs that get axed as the budgets get tighter….Simply because those controlling the purse strings don’t equate such programs as being all that vital for one reason or other. If there’s any silver lining in all this it just might be that finally there’s serious discussion about making psychological help more available.
The other side of the same coin is those without help who might harm or kill themselves. Since that’s generally an individual act it doesn’t seem to get the public]s notice like a killing spree does. I’m just glad to see that so many people are concerned about doing more in that area.
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We need more secure doors on our schools and bullet resistant glass. This man got past doors that were locked by shooting his way in. We need to change that. Time was lost here. Had it been more of an effort to get inside he would have made more noise alerting staff in the process. They could have called the cops sooner maybe preventing this from happening.
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Are students ever outside on the playground?
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Of course they are but at least they aren’t trapped in a classroom with nowhere to run. You got to start somewhere.
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There have been several postings on FaceBook that are germaine to this thread, and since FB is at least as accurate as many of the pronouncements made on these boards, I will share.
The one I remember most went something like this:
If a black man shoots up a building he is a menace to society
If a foreigner shoots someone he is a terrorist
If a white man shoots a bunch of people he is mentally unstable
While there are many reasons this post is simplistic, you cannot deny the underlying veracity.
Think of the Washington DC snipers. Did anyone question their mental stability? Did anyone care? The only thought was how do we insure they get the death penalty.
Same with the Ft. Hood shooter. He was on a Jihad. Enough said. I have not read one story about whether or not he spends his time talking to little green men.
The only difference I can see with these stories is most of the white mass murders tend to kill themselves. Maybe that is the key. Unless you are stark raving mad (the man that shot Congresswoman Giffords) we will only consider your mental wellbeing if you kill yourself and we have no other explaination.
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Why is it, that women are the first to want firearms banned, but are the most vulverable to crime???
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Vulverable should have been vulnerable.
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Freudian slip?
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I believe young males are the ones who end up shot or stabbed more often than women. Your implication that women don’t support gun rights, but, according to you, are theoreticaly the potential recipients of the benefit of having a gun in possession is not well-founded. Having a gun in possession in a household makes a person more vulnerable to either getting shot or shooting an innocent person.
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Flyingnurse The term Moses, when used to refer to the NRA, was used as a slur to discredit Charlton Heston, who was then spokesman for and president of the NRA. For your information, Mr. Heston, who played Moses in The Ten Commandments, is deceased. This slur is no longer valid.
I agree that having someone able to fight back, be it a law inforcement officer or trained citizen, should be available at every school. Let the school decide if it needs security and then DO IT!
I would like to see our police officers making themselves more visible in our communities. Most of the time, we only see the police when they are driving around in their cars. I want to see them walking around my neighborhood, around the school, the church. I want to talk to them, get to know them, interact with them. When they are driving around in their cars, they are isolated from the very communities they serve.
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That was the whole purpose behind community policing. Trouble is it requires too many police to be carried out efficiently. Remember when cops traveled two to a car? Now that only happens in the most dangerous neighborhoods of the biggest cities.
Like any other “business” the largest part of the budget is personnel. When you are talking city employees with retirement benefits it is even more so.
Think of the Pentagon. Two wars for ten years. At the outset people said we need to add divisions. Rumsfeld vetoed that idea in the first 20 seconds. If we increased the size of our ground forces John Q. Citizen might realize we are at war. Can’t have that can we?
Now you have soldiers that have spent 4 and 5 tours in the sand box. We will pay for that oversight for the next 50 years. 5 tours in a war zone and wonder why they come back with PTSD and require life time care.
As for Moses: I chose him on purpose. You would recognize the cultural reference. It worked.
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I often see a police vehicle at the EGF Senior High. Maybe schools need to adopt a cop. They could have a raffle drive each year to support the program.
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There is an article on the DNT ‘s Area Voices called ….. “Local View: Video gaming convention not a good idea for Duluth.” It was written by Jo Cooley, a communication major at UMD. Take a look at the number of likes/dislikes on the first few comments. I think it is an interesting read while discussing this topic.
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I went and read the article. The ‘writer’ of that article is completely clueless and has absolutely no idea what GenCon even is about. I have friends that attend sometimes, the whole convention is about Table Top gaming. One poster stated that out of 8700+ events around 230 +/- were about video games. That is about right.
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The capt went quiet when I asked if he supported a 25% tax on guns to pay for school security. Maybe he’s still shocked at being called a “liberal” by scooter?
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I would pay that, or even a half cent federal sales tax.. My only problem would be that the feds would never send the money down hill.. It would end up getting spent on something else..
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The nra is not in place to protect the individual person’s right to bear arms. It is in place to gaurantee the gun manufacturers right to produce a profit. They are the first to call for more arms. They have been critisizing president obama from the start. They say he wants to take away your guns. There has not been a single piece of firearm legislation during his term as president. It is not a bad thing to review our gun control policies. And unfortunatly it only happens when a series of mass killings occur.
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It just occured to me where we can get the money for all these armed guards…The NRA and the gun manufacturers who are making money hand over fist every time the NRA puts out the “They’re going stop letting you buy guns” scare. Schools are on extremely tight budgets and can’t afford guards, but if that’s what the NRA thinks is best…Then they should show their commitment and put up or shut up…
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Obama knew if he tried any anti gun laws during his first term he would have no chance at a second term. Just wait, it´s just like he told the Russians, ¨I will have more flexibility after the election¨, the gun laws are coming.
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Regulation has always been a government option. When things get so bass akwards as they are now…It’s time to make a “Few” adjustments. Not the big scare of taking all guns like the lunitic fringe keeps shouting.
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Fyi, I heard more nra members whining about their rights before I heard anything about more gun control.
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The Nra did what it does best after a school shooting. Within a week they show their faces and have a heartless tacky press conference reaffirming “our rights to bear arms” and advocating for more guns to control gun violence. They did it at columbine also
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Ron: Earlier, you commented about the absence of gun legislation in the last four years. It’s naive to think this is just about lawmaking. By the narrowest of margins (5-4), In 2010(during Obama’s administration), the Supreme Court made a ruling that made the City of Chicago’s handgun ban unenforceable. Google it and see for yourself. With one Obama court appointee, this ruling could be reversed, giving second amendment control to local units of government. Even though the NRA might be paranoid, the Court could still be against them.
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NY enforced strict handgun laws and saw an immeadiat drop in crime and shootings. That would seem to beg to differ that more guns are beter in the first place. Granted I don’t know what their laws are, I just know that they work.
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I don’t get the four dislikes to your comment. It makes sense that handgun bans in big cities (Chicago actually has handgun laws that are no longer enforceable) would reduce the opportunity to commit many random violent acts and crime rates would go down. Adding 100,000 guns to our schools would likely cause some unfortunate incidents each year. It’s kind of insulting that so many don’t think our schools have done a lot already to reduce violence and disrespect, etc. It would help if respect was taught and exemplified in more of our homes.
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Big cities should be able to decide for themselves how they want to regulate firearms. But it shouldn’t infringe on people living in NW Minnesota. The circumstances are different.
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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I’ve never actually read any NRA material. I never said I was worried about losing my guns. I mentioned a 5-4 vote that could go 4-5 with a single Supreme Court appointment. My comment wasn’t dishonest or distorted. It was simple math. I don’t think you even read my entire earlier comment. If you had, normal curiosity would have you at least reading the wiki version of my reference. What’s propoganda about 5-4 changing to 4-5 with a swing of one vote? Wow.
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Lets be honest these “mass murders” are a bunch of cry baby a holes p@#sy’s. If they were confronted with equal force, they would quickly p#$@ themselves or be quickly dispatched!!
I own many guns, I don’t belong to the NRA. I own some for hunting, some for target shooting, and some for collecting. I would give up everyone of them, if Barack, Nancy, or Diane will give me a guarantee that this would never happen again. But until then, leave me alone.
The Media, Hollywood, and all the game makers are more to blame then the NRA, or bushmaster.
Lock yourself in a closet for an hour with a screwdriver. What do you feel like doing?
Now lock yourself in a closet for an hour with some porn. What do you feel like doing?
IT ISN’T THE TOOL, YOU TOOLS!!!
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That’s exactly the example of anger mismanagement a lot of us get concerned about having a arsenal…
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There isn’t any anger here Tundra. I am just a honest Libertarian, with what I believe to be common sense views.
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Tundrbeast that is passion … not anger.
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Here’s the reality of gun protection: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/opinion/frum-nra-nightmare-vision/index.html?hpt=po_c2
However, having added that realistic view, please note that I’m only asking for a slight change in regulation:
- Cut down the firepower by regulating magazines.
…and I’m OK with the NRA idea of school guards — so long as an gun sales tax pays for it.
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