Shooting puts gun control front and center
December 17, 2012 at 6:17 pm in Grand Forks Herald
In coming weeks, the types of firearms Americans should or shouldn’t be allowed to own will likely be the subject of widespread debate, including in Washington, according to members of the North Dakota and Minnesota Congressional delegations. Continue Reading
I have trouble spelling. My pencil is to blame.
There’s an obesity epidemic in the USA. This is because we don’t regulate and control silverware. No forks, no overeating.
“After a shooting spree, why do they always try to take the guns away from the people who didn’t do it?”–W. S. Burroughs
Here’s a thought: Regulate and control crazy people, not the tools they use to do crazy stuff.
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The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. Wasn’t the Brady Bill supposed to cure all gun violence?
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I agree. An AR-15 is a beautifully efficient machine for killing many people. Like an army, or rebels, or a gang.
In the long-term, I fear systematic threats from organized, centralized, “official” power more than I fear random threats from chaotic individuals. The AR-15 helps to level the playing field between powerful organized groups and more loosely-connected individuals like myself.
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Perhaps tundra, someday there may be an uprising of the citizens when they´ve decided they´ve had enough of a gov´t that takes from those who choose to work, and gives to those who choose not to. Would the President then order the military to attack citizens?
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The United States government already attacked American citizens on American soil. It was called the Civil War.
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Actually the south wanted to break away for a variety of reasons, but they were already a part of the “United States of America” and were told they couldn’t. The south then declared war on the rest of the country. The original “Enemy Combatants” against the United States Government. It wasn’t the government invading the states.
As for some of these locals who after listening to Beck and others from the cuckoos nest. I don’t think there’d even be enough numbers to need the National Guard (Today’s militia). So even if you have a hundred guns apiece….you’d still have the problem of people power to use them….Oh….And Drones of course….
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By the by….It was obvious that had the south broke away from the rest of the country that they would have had a huge production advantage over the north because of their use of slave labor compared to paid labor. That was the real slave issue more than the issue of owning humans in the first place. The north had to respond or the south would have became our next door China and eventually would have been able to take everything. If that would have happened then there’s a good chance slavery would still exist because the industrial revolution would have been an entirely different event most likely….And problay not one created in America until late if there was slave labor available. America would have fallen behind of the free world when it came to inovation.
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It’s really easy to put the blame on a bullet. But which one. Our laws ALREADY need to be enforced. ANYONE with a mental condition and or should not be in possession of ANY weapon as well as a felon. Furthermore the history of this family should be an example for a starting point to engage on a starting point for our failures in already written policies. I can get a gun anywhere anytime. It doesn’t have to be a semi-auto. Ak-47. Or whatever. I can get a gun. Our social services programs are so over run with red tape policies because of every new scheme with every new migrant that qualifies. We donor have control of our policies anymore because of the amount of people we have to RUN through the system every month.
Patient client privilege has to be reworked and more red flags thrown. But that takes money out of someone’s pocket so we will sweep that away.
Taking guns is still not the answer. Enforcement is. But yet we pay so little to the people we have protecting us You get what you pay for!
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tundra, I believe ¨weapons of mass destruction¨ are already regulated.
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Apparently not well enough if these massive shootings with automatic weapons with huge clips keep happening.
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Automatic weapons are illegal. The term means you only have to press the trigger once and bullets continue to expel. Semi-automatic refers to having to press the trigger repeatedly.
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I believe the gun control debate is a red herring designed to mislead the naïve away from the real issue. In my opinion it’s time to have a “grownup” discussion, to paraphrase a blowhard politician, about government incompetence and outright negligence in the face of an obvious threat. For years we’ve built school buildings from fire resistant / retardant materials complete with sprinkler systems, extinguishers, and smoke detection. We mandate regular fire evacuation drills so everyone knows what to do in an emergency. We do this because we know fires happen. The redundancy in protection has been wildly successful in reducing the number of children lost in school fires. (I’ve heard the number is zero in the last 50 years, but can’t confirm that.) We wouldn’t call the Fire Marshal paranoid because of the redundancies in his program, yet discussions about school security measures often get that reaction. We’ve had a history of school shootings going back to 1764 if you can believe Wikipedia, and a search of “rampage killers” brings even more results. Andrew Kehoe killed 45 and wounded 58 in the “Bath School disaster” of 1927 with some homemade bombs and a bolt action rifle. If a nut goes to a school with a revolver and takes well aimed shots, chances are pretty good that 6 people will die. Is that any less tragic than what happened last Friday? So all the assault rifle and supposed “high capacity magazine” bans will do nothing to prevent this from happening again. State ran public education is compulsory in the United States. We allow the government to round up our children and concentrate them in inadequately secured and undefended shooting galleries. The teachers are told to shut the lights off and hide in a closet, or line the kids up against a wall and pretend no one is home when the maniac comes knocking. This is absolutely absurd, yet hardly surprising coming from the types of people that rise to administrative positions. Would you shut the lights off and wait for help if a fire was raging on the other side of the door? This is difficult to say, but there were no hero teachers hiding with their kids in bathrooms or confronting the lunatic in a hallway in this most recent tragedy. There were only brave, dead teachers that were following misguided policies, and lucky teachers. We seem to find plenty of money to bail out fat cats and invade foreign nations; maybe we should reconsider our priorities as a nation.
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Well said ndkarateka!
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From what hyou’re saying…I never considered this before, but maybe some sort of safe rooms within class rooms, but that too would be expensive, but a one time cost compared to on going guards. On the other hand. Do we really want to be that society that has to have so much security against home grown terrorists? I mean is this the America we’re ready to become? Or is there better solutions?
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We are living in that world right now. We need to rethink how we are protecting ourselves. Invest in armor plating. The stock is sure to rise.
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You can own as many as you want as long as they aren’t fully auto and you aren’t a felon.
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Thanks DC…At least you’re willing to back your convictions….Unlike all the “Dislikes” who click in silence as if they’re doing something meaningful. If you’re not willing to back your convictions…Move on
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Realist, I am much more concerned about your government and the tyranny of the majority than I am of foreign aggression or gang wars. The state claims the right to legal violence, and always has down through the millennia, but the men who run the state, certainly not you or I, have not change one bit. They are hungry for power, greedy and believe that any ends justify their means. You are indeed naïve if you think this United States government is “us”. They don’t need your consent to bomb other countries, or imprison citizens indefinitely. And as I understand it, the “militia” was not meant to repel foreign invaders; it was intended thwart domestic tyranny.
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“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason
“Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.”
Thomas Jefferson
“The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution.”
Thomas Jefferson
“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”
Patrick Henry
“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington
“What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty…. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.” (Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment
“…to disarm the people – that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)
I can go on like this all day realist, google is an ignorance buster. . . .
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“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. ”
Thaomas Jefferson
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“Those who don’t read the newspapers are better off than those who do insofar as those who know nothing are better off than those whose heads are filled with half-truths and lies.”
Thomas Jefferson
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Hiow is it you gun supporters love to point out the constitution…Except when it comes to this absurd notion. Do you realize that our constitution would have to be violated by the political leaders and every commander? The very people who pledge to uphold the constitution. Who would be in violation of the law to even attempt what you fear? Do you honestly for one second think there could be that many people in charge who would violate their legal obligations? It wont happen…Sleep tight…
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Have you ever read about the Milgram experiments?
Oh and BTW we already have a government in violation of the Constitution. It is called the Patriot Act.
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You got me there…I forgot about that damn thing that should have either had to be ratified into the constitution or abolished…Damn good point….Maybe I need a gun or two…..Naw…I’ll chance it. The worse part of that is how they can detain you indefinately even on false information…..
As for the first thing you mentioned. Don’t just throw something out without a little explaination. How do I know if it’s even worth looking up?
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During WWII, civilians in Britain were in real need of guns. Some US Citizens sent guns over to Britain, to help arm these civilains.
The Nazi’s were taking over Europe and Britain was to be next to be invaded. What if the Allied Forces were unable to stop the Nazi’s? Those civilians without firearms and ammo would have been done for.
Sure, some civilians would have died with a Nazi invasion.
Which is better? Dying or died fighting.
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There is no “what if” on the Germans invading Britain.
The Germans were bombing London to craters. It was only a matter of time before Nazi ground forces hit the shores of Britain.
I served in the US Military and have been to two war zones. Seen what happens when the civilians have not been armed.
I am sure the atrocities that I saw firsthand, with my boots on the ground in those war torn countries, would get my post censored. I have seen firsthand what lack of firearms can mean for civilians. The enemies are foreign (other military forces) and domestic (rapists, psychpaths, etc.)
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Yes Robert, but folks in the USA also sent boatloads of ARs to the IRA in Northern Ireland. That helped peace a lot didn’t it?
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You’re right. For the powder keg Europe was sitting on back then there should have been more arms because it was inevitable that war would break out. That was then, and this is now. Unless you know something about plans Canada has to invade I don’t ses the comparison. Besides today we have our regular military, our National Guard, and our reservists to call up long before they’ll be ringing hunters phones for reinforcement on the Canadian front. I think we have this one covered today.
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This link to the British Medical Journal may help readers understand the view from the UK: http://www.bmj.com/content/345/bmj.e8603?etoc=
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I believe our answer to modern day violence in the U.S. is much deeper than gun control. We spend billions of dollars and many of lives are lost to fight violence outside our borders. Folks, It’s time to look in the mirror and redirect our efforts to curb violence right here at home.
Does the media blitz of these whack-jobs committing these crimes provide a motive? Maybe the violent video games being produced for our children play a role? Perhaps more research treating individuals with mental health issues may prevent unspeakable acts such as school shootings? Should our educators/parents spend a little more time teaching love, respect and tolerance for others inside and outside of the classrooms?
Please do not only focus on the mass killing at suburban schools, malls and movie theaters. Let’s not forget about the daily violence of those children, men and women living in the inner cities face on a daily basis.
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I for one will never buy a video game for me or anyone. they bring no positive effect.
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Think your pistol is inadequate? Here’s the answer: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/20/opinion/waldman-guns-manhood/index.html
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Wow that is just filled with all kinds of ‘facts’.. not.
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http://dawn.com/no-obama-tears-for-children-killed-by-drones-in-pakistan/
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The gun control deniers are like the tobacco lobby. Cigarettes don’t kill people people kill people or cigarettes don’t cause cancer people cause cancer. Same insanity.
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100 yrs. ago ND farmers showed up on the state capitol steps with shotguns to protest against the MSP grain barons paying almost nothing for their grain. In fact, in 1927 a bill was introduced in the ND Legislature to secede from the Union. Illegal of course but that’s how bad the MSP oligarchic forces had become. When you have friends like those you need an armed militia besides the National Guard.
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