Judge gives Bentleyville preachers their pulpit
December 5, 2012 at 6:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
For the second year in a row, a federal judge has ruled that preachers have free rein at the Bentleyville Tour of Lights in Duluth’s Bayfront Park.
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Well I have news for you Judge, there’s a time and place for EVERYTHING and I, for one, don’t care to be approached, at Bentleyville or anywhere else for that matter, by bible pushing thugs! I go to Church if and when I want to, and that’s my right and it is all of the citizens rights not to have to listen to that crap when they’re trying to enjoy the beauty of the lights and all the fun displays. I still think it was wrong to move Bentleyville off of private property to begin with. I saw this display when it was at his home, and it felt a whole lot more festive and enjoyable.
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People don’t go to war and die to protect your right not to be annoyed. This is offensive.
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Julie, you need to do a little bit more research on our 1st amendment rights. I didn’t see you complaining about the occupy movement. If bentleyville started paying for the use of the park and started charging admission, things would be different, but for now, wear ear plugs or walk away from what you don’t want to hear.
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Hugh: I am well aware of the 1st amendment rights, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with them either; and IF I were to go down to Bentleyville and one of them approached me, you can better believe they wouldn’t do it again! If I ONLY had a $1 for every moron that ignored the sign on the door that says “No soliciting” yet I get every friggon solicitor and bible pushing moron at my door, but I guess THEY don’t have to follow rules, laws or amendments hey???
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HUH! But you don’t have to agree with them? Please, tell us you’re joking! Or maybe just shut up because people don’t agree with YOUR 1st amendment rights. See what you start when you dismiss our bill of rights? You undermine your own rights. What other rights don’t you agree with? We’re curious.
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Yeah! You’re absolutely right, Julie! And I don’t want to be annoyed by anti-war or pro-gay thugs, either!
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Don’t worry about the light show, once the Atheists find out it will be gone!
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As an atheist – I can say whole heartily that I know I have no qualms about Bentlyville. It’s a great family and community event. I have gone there with my wife and family as well.
Your stereotyping of Atheists is rather flawed.
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I’ve never seen or met these preachers who want to spread the word of God at Bentleyville so I don’t know what they are saying to people, and yes it may be annoying to listen to them preach while trying to enjoy the festive holiday music played through out the display but after all Christmas is supposed to be about celebrating Christs birth (even though Bentleyville has only ONE small display that depicts Christs birth and the rest are whimsical fun displays). I love Bentleyville and have made the 2 hour drive up there for the last 4 years but I wouldn’t stop coming just because some one was trying to spread the word of God at the most special time of year!
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Just wait until every other special interest group with something on their mind decides to challenge the Bible thumpers and compete for your attention. Atheists, skinheads, homosexuals, occutards…Bayfront could get very crowded very quickly. And then the city can change the name to First Amendmentville. Ho ho ho.
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Happy Saturnalia Everybody
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and a joyous Festivus to you!
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Uh-huh. Well, I’ll tell you what — when the anti-war and pro-gay people show up, you’ll see the liberals suddenly switching gears and fighting for the free speech rights of those people.
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Gay, anti-war, agnostic, gun owning, union supporting, lefty liberal here. Don’t like their message but respect their 1st amendment rights. And I didn’t need to shift gears to do so.
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Thank you, though you seem to be in the minority.
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Jay!`~~ Odd …earlier you were chastising people for stereotyping….mmmm….social liberal and support the ideals of Constitution and unlike some conservatives, actually know what it means coughcough…. and though may feel these two guys are just attention whores and acting like from “Azzholes for Christ Church” I totally defend their right to say what want as long as not harrassing anyone. Freedom of Speech is not granted based on acceptance of the message, it’s a fundamental right also…. “Freedom of Speech carries with it the inherent right not to listen”…Hubert Humphrey
I also don’t think all Preachers are jerks…actually saw a good friend of mine yesterday thats a minister and asked what thought of these two…and got the motion of ~mouth agape and finger pointing down throat~ after asked what thought of the “FEAR GOD” message….which pretty much was my reaction too …LOL….just didn’t want you to stereotype me as you go about chastising people you’ve stereotyped for stereotyping…
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I think the decision of the judege was correct, even though I do not like the idea of being preached to at Bentleyville. I’m glad I already went this year and won’t have to hear or see these men. Christmas is about the birth of Christ in my opinion, even though I am not “religious”. However, i don’t want to hear these men shouting to me about Jeses. It makes no sense to me. I wonder if they think their sermons are doing anything but annoying most people. I am really hoping that public events do not get turned into spectacles where people gather to shout their opinions at others. These men have their right to free speech, but I hope they use it respectfully. This hope goes to all who feel the need to stand in a public place and shout opinions – please do not interfere with other’s basic rights while you are practicing yours. Hey DNT – I’d like more information on the Tea Party meeting at the DECC where the participants were “protected” from protestors. Who decided they needed protection, who provided it, was anyone arrested? I don’t remember hearing about this.
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The forcing of religious views and beliefs on others is one of the biggest tragedies in history. If I wanted to hear it, I would go to church, temple, etc.
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Nobody’s forcing you to attend or listen. If a gov’t body can deny someone his 1st amendment rights, they can deny him anything. Why can’t the religiously intolerant understand this? The whole issue goes beyond our own personal inconveniences imposed upon us by a few street preachers. What is the difference between the preachers, the occupy bozos, or a gay pride festival/rally?
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How is someone practicing free speech in public forcing anything on you?
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Or is it just because it has to do with religious speech? (Probably.)
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Jay~ Interesting, You ask question but then answer it while really making condescending negative mocking conclusion. Are you a mind reader? Because I could use a good one, mine died a few years ago….
So do you belong to “The Church of the Immaculate Assumption”? I bet you do and sure you sit in front pew…
;-P”"”"”"”"”na, na…I can do that too.
~rolls eyes~
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This is why we can’t have nice things. . .
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Yeah, we can’t extend the nice things like freedom of speech to public preachers.
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It would be prudent to read article before commenting, it helps prevent one from looking totally foolish..in fact just the headline should provide you with clue…sheeesh..
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They show up at the Duluth/Superior Pride Festival every year, and I think they usually stay in one spot. Most folks ignore them, some engage and talk to them. Much as I don’t like their brand of religion, our nation has always allowed (or endured) free speech in public venues. However I do draw the line with people like the Phelps clan. They actively disrupt and antagonize, which is not free speech but bullying.
Basically a person has the right to speak in public and I have the right to ignore. If you keep getting in my face or follow me with a bullhorn, you’ve crossed the line.
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They were told (by SPD) to put their blow horn away at Dragon Boat festival as couple of years ago or get arrested for disorderly conduct. They have the right to freedom of speech but that does not extend to use of amplification equipment.
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Now that you mention it, I do remember them being at the staging area for gay pride parade a year or so ago in Superior. Preachers had a bullhorn, but parade participants had louder motorcycles and kept drowning them out.
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Wrong. They can use bullhorns at an acceptable level, just like, say, anti-corporation or pro-union protesters can.
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They cannot if it interferes with the event music or event sound system.
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Doe this mean that any religion can hold services or preach there? Do you have to hold an ordination certificate to preach there or can anyone get up on their soap box and preach their beliefs? Just wondering.
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Yes. And it doesn’t have to be religious either. If you believe in The Great Pumpkin, you are free to get on your soapbox at Bentleyville.
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Which is what makes freedom of speech great. It extends to everyone, not just those you agree with.
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Why don’t they preach in front of the Last Place on Earth? Seems like they could do some good there.
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I don’t know what that place is and haven’t been in Duluth since my college days in the early 1990s, but I can just imagine what that place is like.
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Jay…part of an article in yesterdays DNT about a business that is closing down. Just happens to be across from Last Place.
” According to Pharis and store manager Kelly Yetter, the behavior of some Last Place on Earth customers who have come to the Tech Village have caused problems. That prompted the building owner to lock the outside entrance closest to Catherine Imports. For seven months this year, customers had to walk to the farther lobby entrance, then go down a hallway to get to the store.
“Two years ago, we were still showing a profit, then our door was locked,” Yetter said. But Yetter and Pharis don’t blame A&L Properties, saying the action was needed to keep problems of drug use, vomiting, unruly behavior and vandalism out of the building.”
Among the items Last Place sells includes synthetic drugs. People line up on the sidewalk just to go in and buy the stuff.
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They already have preachers at Last Place on Earth. They’re called panhandlers.
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It’s called freedom of speech, and I can’t believe we’re even having a discussion about this.
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Considering that several Democrat congressmen have authored a proposed constitutional amendment specifically limiting free speech, I’m not too surprised. The 1st amendment wasn’t designed to protect pleasant speech, but speech we might not like to hear or agree with.
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Freedom of speech is in danger, and the nightmare of censorship is upon us.
Thank God for a constitution-abiding judge!
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I wonder how these nut jobs would feel if atheists were to protest outside of their place of worship.
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Uh, hello? Can you say “private property”?
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AHhhh, no Hugh. If they are off the property but on public sidewalk…they could go protest. Why do I think it just might happen soon too?
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^Agreed
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Why do you assume that church congregants would respond negatively? Chick-Fil-A protesters were treated to cold drinks. I think you’d find the same to happen at churches.
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What makes you think they wouldn’t?
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By the fact that most churchgoers are not like Fred Phelps or some of the jerks who viscerally hate these particular street preachers (the guy trying to run them over with his moped by illegally driving it onto a sidewalk comes to mind).
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Not all chruchgoers, or those people leading the churches, are good people. I don’t think I need to cite recent examples of that.
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The secularists appear to want to hyjack Christmas and remove the real meaning for the celebration. True, Christ probably wasn’t born on that particular day but none the less, HE is the reason for what we call Christmas. HE is also the reaon for one of the worlds main religions. To try to seperate Christs birth celebration from his lifes work is ridiculous. HE is the reason for the season.
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The christians hyjacked the pagan celebrations held at the various times of year, and entangled their fairy tale among them, so as to “convert” pagans to thair religion. Easter is another christian hyjacked celebration time. But the phoney birth of Jesus on that supposed day is the biggest hyjack of them all….next is Easter and the “passover crap.
And yes ulysses, before you get your undies in a twist, I believe in a higher power. But not the fairy tale those nut cases are yelling into peoples faces about while they just try to enjoy a night out!
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“Hijacked” is a cynical way of describing it, but it’s true that both Christmas & Easter were originally pagan holidays that Christians adapted for their own purposes. Easter in the second century AD, Christmas in the fourth. There are some Christians who don’t celebrate either holiday for this reason.
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And this is why I read AreaVoices. You get an absolute jaw dropper once in a while. Thank you Hugh.
Yes, Christianity has had it set of martyrs. It has also spread around the world. Unfortunately, not a lot of connection between the two. Lets see, the conversion of the Roman Empire occurred in the 4th century and propagated the religion to the far ends of that empire by DECREE (not incidentally leading to wholesale slaughters of pagans btw). Check out Theodosius decree of 392 and what happened afterwards. The exploration era brought the spread of people to both north and south america which did do a great job of spreading Christianity to both places (but didn’t work out so well for the indigenous people there and their religions). As Western Influence has grown we have seen lots of missionaries (especially Mormon ones nowadays) to some of the remaining non-Christian parts of the world.
As for being willing to die for their religion, maybe want to google some events, maybe start with the Inquisition. Next go on to the crusades. Follow that with a look at the term pogrom (and incidentally the meaning of the term “beyond the Pale”). Also look at ties of Christianity and the Holocaust. Lots of folks willing to die for their religions. Just not so many focused on converting others, sometimes with force.
Not that other religions don’t have their problems (India and Pakistan go after each other without bringing in Christianity).
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actually the moon is the reason for the season…christs birth being on dec 25th is derived from the starting of the winter solstice on dec 21st and was celebrated by pagans and multiple other religions…nice try though JESUS SAVES!!! JESUS SAVES>>>save me from all your followers lies…..you ever notice that the pope is never mentioned once in the bible yet people think he is god’s conduit to man?? good grief…please preach to the choir becuase the public dont want to hear it.
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Um… December 25th is not December 21st. There’s absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Christmas “derived” from winter solstice celebrations. My birthday is the day after St. Patrick’s Day. Is my birthday celebration then “derived” from the St. Patrick’s Day celebration?
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Maybe your parents conceived you so they could counter the excesses of a typical St Patrick’s day celebration? It could happen.
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Okay, now THAT was funny. I don’t care who you are.
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Hugh J or Jay__hue, we could be alter egos of the same person.
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What will really be fun to watch, is if a few other groups decide to go out preach these two nut balls, and the city starts having a real showdown about it. Watch the people go crazy when THAT happens. Frankly, I hope it does! LOL….. What`s wrong with a little holiday free speech as they go at each other? Nothing. It should be fun and entertaining.
That Judge….. He may have just put it into play with his ruling. I hope at least he`s happy.
As for me and mine, as long as those two preachers stay out of my face and out of my ears…..they`re safe. Getting into my face in any way will just provoke me into protecting my space. I look forward to my holiday visit to see the lights.
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I thought anyone was allowed to practice their relegion of choice but not try to shove it down someone elses throat. Higher power is a great thing to believe in, orginized relegion is malarky in the first degree.
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Jay Mchue, people go to Bentlyville for the sole purpose to see lights. They don’t go to be preached to. The preachers are trying to make people come around to their way of thinking, hence shoving it down peoples throats. If a commercial or show on TV isn’t to your liking you can turn the channel.
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Hugh, fine, pick a relegion to sponsor it and tell the public.
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I go to Walmart to shop, not listen to an annoying bell being rung, but still…
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Nothing like a few “adults” spoiling the fun for the kids. Let’s remember that Bentleyville is first and foremost for the kids and families. Hope Bentleyville doesn’t turn into a political or religious soapbox for all the special interest groups. Not that I don’t believe in free speech. We have had enough debate this past election cycle….we need a break.
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Yeah, just watch as the pro-gay or anti-war/anti-corporation protesters get special treatment to protest freely.
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If those guys got laid more often maybe they’d mellow out. It’s their wive’s fault.
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Stay on topic, folks, and let’s try to be a little more mature all around, please.
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I’m so sorry for being immature, Ms. Lucin. Maybe I’ll grow up some day…before the other foot is in the grave.
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I wonder how the people that are defending these nutjobs will feel when the people “preaching” are holding up signs with pentagrams on them and shouting passages from the satanic bible at ‘em.
I bet the majority of them change their tune pretty quickly.
Look like it’s time to head up to Office Max to stock up on sharpies and poster board.
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Christian, Muslim, Satanist, Atheist, Gaian.. it’s all the same. It’s protected speech.
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Instead of listing teh groups that are opposite of your political beliefs… how about saying “All groups”. Simple, isn’t it?
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I picked the highest profile groups that you are most likely to see.
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From the article……..”Chief District Court Judge Michael Davis ruled in Minneapolis that despite the change in the contract, Bayfront Park remains a public venue. He wrote that there was “no material change as to the nature of the use of the park.”
“Courts have consistently held that a private event that takes place in a traditional public forum, and is free and open to the public, does not transform the nature of the forum,” Davis wrote in his ruling Wednesday.”
Would the preachers be allowed in if Bentleyville charged say a dime or quarter to get in? Would charging people a token amount give Bentleyville more control over what goes on inside the park?
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I believe things would have to “materially change”. I suspect a token admission charge wouldn’t be enough, especially if bentleyville isn’t charged anything to use the park.
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If I read this right, all Bentley has to do is charge a dollar and the rules change.
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When we go I put money in their jar anyway….I would gladly pay a dollar to get in. Maybe kids could still get in free. The extra money could go to the food shelf or whatever.
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The problem here is that you are giving them (protesters and the like) the attention they strive. Stop feeding them and they will go elsewhere!
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Not really. These two clowns have been all over doing this crap, and this is the only real venue they are getting noticed at right now, and they have been at it a long long time. They have NO intentions of just walking away from a situation like this…as they try and pound the fear of their god into your ears. I hope a way is found to stop this crap, but I think the display will be tossed aside and stopped before others with totally opposing views start showing up for their free speech rights to counter these clowns. Then it will be over and done with…and they`ll just go street pund their preaching on another street. They are not about to walk away, believe me on that. They don`t care whos fun the ruin if you don`t have the word of their god in your ears.
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Mr. Bentley should put the largest, loudest, speaker right behind these guys and blast music louder than these guys can talk. Im all for free speech, but come on,,,,, This is disturbing and the intentions appear to be beyond spreading the word of God.
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The Constitution protects speech in public places, so I think it will be hard to prevent these guys from doing their thing, but I can’t help but wonder what these “preachers” believe is the benefit?! By disrupting this venue, they can’t seriously believe they are providing a positive influence on people to become Christians. The Vineyard Church gives out hot chocolate and cookies down on Superior Street pretty regularly and they do FAR more to promote Christianity than any guy yelling at you as you try to enjoy some Christmas lights.
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JayMchue, kind of reverse discrimanation isn’t it? These guys can say whatever they want, but if an atheist says his peace he’s the spawn of the devil? I believe when you die you go to a place with a long yellow brick road in search of an emrald city where you will be judged on your life.
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Why did you just build and burn a straw man and attribute it to me?
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Are you knocking what I bedlieve in? How dare you!
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Jay said ” stop believing in the spawn of the Da Vinci Code” Prove to me why it’s false. You’re not very tolerant of peoples beliefs are you?
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The real question, from a theological perspective is: who is getting the attention, God, or the preachers? Matthew 6:5 “When you pray, don’t be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them…”
The Word needs to be spread, but our actions will speak loader than our words.
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Are they praying? These are street preachers, not street prayers. Jesus preached in the street all the time. Are you going to knock him for it, too?
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Jay, Prove It.
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Prove what, exactly? That Jesus preached in the streets?
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Prove that what you claim is the absolute truth about relegion. All the events happened. Prove to me that it’s not a fairy tale.
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You don’t see them outside of Last Place because they only get off being seen by many and are not out to actually trying help anyone. Has anyone seen these preachers lending a hand at the Damiano or other shelter, volunteering with kids, helping the needy? I see it as more of a fetish than a religious act. Exercise your first amendment right and tell them that their boner is showing.
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How utterly juvenile.
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Another example of non tolerance for others opinions Jay?
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The difference between me and you is I don’t care if they preach but if I tell them to leave me alone I expect they do so. It appears to me you wouldn’t be so tolerant.
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How utterly boring there Ward Cleaver.
These nutjobs are just that, nuts. Nothing is going to change them, so people might as well have fun at their expense.
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Yup.
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I’m yupping to Patrick Bateman, by the way.
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Ian, thanks, I just spit coffee all over my monitor! ROFLMAO!!!
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Exactly Ian…Are they truly out there for God or do they just like to be in the news? I have no problem with people trying to practice their faith. If they are trying to serve their faith then yes…stand in front of the Last Place or work with the homeless. Once in a while I get the Mormons at the door….they are always polite and sincere. I’m not sure what to think about the Bentleyville preachers. Instead of working the legal system why not try to save a lost soul on Superior Street?
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There you see: Ian took Iver’s class, too.
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Hey was only about 10 years older than me. I took a class from him. Sorry to say, but it was a waste of time and money.
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Yoy guys can’t take a joke.
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A little more humor or attempted humor depending on how you look at it, wouldn’t hurt the world one bit.
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The Bible is the biggest piece of propaganda that ever hit papyrus. There is no God. Goodness is within each of us if we choose to live by it.
I don’t object to the Keep Christ in Christmas movement as long as it doesn’t impinge on individual liberty. Equally, I vehemently object to the banning of “Merry Christmas” being spoken in schools, etc – and all the symbolism of Christmas being wiped away.
In spite of not having an official religion, the United States was founded on Christian principles – not Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or otherwise. Those principles are enshrined in our Constitution.
We just observed Thanksgiving. The English settlers who landed at Plymouth Rock weren’t called Pilgrims because the label just sounded good to the ear. They were seeking refuge to practice their own religion without persecution.
Therefore, I say…. Live and let live but don’t trample on my freedom.
I don’t know what motivates these two individuals with placards and scripture. Mr Bentley is willing good will to the community with lights and musical joy. The Salvation Army donation box is right there with it. What more can you ask of this?
Should those two preachers really want to do something worthwhile, why don’t they stand outside Walmart, Miller Hill Mall or Target.
The real culprit is the consumer market that American corporations created and the consumer society that has evolved from it.
This false economy is what has broken down families, communities and the economic backbone of our country. The US has exported this consumer-driven economic model around the globe and it has now infected the PRC “China”. It won’t be long before we’re all working to satisfy Chinese demand for goods and services.
Money, money, money. How holy is that?
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Nativity scenes get kicked out of public parks, but these two men get their freedom of speech. I’ll take it.
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Did anyone happen to notice, that on Friday Dec.14th the tribune ran a story about the fact the problem causing street preacher is a Minnesota registered sex offender? He was convicted of sexual assult on a 13 year old girl while he was a teacher in Cass county!
The Tribune puts the story out with no “talk about it” area, AND removed from site, all online topics related comment section about preacher at the same time…tucking them safely away out of sight here.
Talk about trying to curb public comment! The Trbune is a joke.
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