Locked-out Crystal Sugar workers reject offer for 4th time
December 1, 2012 at 2:23 pm in Grand Forks Herald
Locked-out American Crystal Sugar workers rejected the company’s contract offer for the fourth time Saturday. Fifty-five percent of union workers voted to reject the contract, down from the 63 percent that voted to reject the same offer earlier this summer.
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Great news for the replacement workers.
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There is no sense being nasty. You knew the company was in it for the long haul.
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Maybe if the workers hadnt been so greedy that they were willing to sit at home for the past 2 years on unemployment and govt assistance they could have been working and kept these so called “undesirables “out.
Personally, i will take a person in the community willing to work over a whiner who sits at home any day.
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The AFL-CIO steps in again to run negative ads to sway the rank and file into thinking that ACS will give in to unrealistic union demands. Very good news for the replacement workers DC. I do not see an end to this for a long, long time.
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Ha Ha Ha Ha
I’m lovin this.
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Say no, I do not know why you like this. The company is moving forward w/out you. The costs are coming down and potential employees who were concerned about the being temporary will not be as worried after this. Your ingnorace is only hurting you and your fellow union workers, including the children in you showcased in your video.
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ACS continues with business as usual, or at least getting damn near it. Union workers are still without paychecks.
Yeah, you sure showed them!
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Isnt this the same union that refused to negotiate with Hostes?
Didnt that result in the loss of 18,000 union jobs?? Seems they do not have a very good record in considering the members of their union and keeping them employed.
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As long as union “leaders” continue to collect their big paychecks, while telling rank and file to vote no, you’ll always have the Hostess and ACS result. It’s easy to tell people to give up their job when you have no skin in the game.
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Unlike ACS, Hostess did not lockout it’s employees. They are closing their doors. The union needs to to take a good hard look at what can happen.
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How much longer until the union just doesn’t have a job to comeback to? I don’t know about the rest of you but if didn’t have a job for a year I would be living with my parents and I’m sure not all of them have that option.
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I am wondering how many people voted today versus the first vote, second vote and the third vote. How come this is not told to the public. The union makes it seem like the same number of people have voted 4 times. Time for the union to move on and out….Crystal has moved on and its obvious they don’t need the union.
Plus this boycott campain they are running….what a joke….might as well boycott anything and everything that has sugar in it and not just items that have “crystal sugar” labeled on it. Do they think everything that comes out of the factories has to have the crystal sugar label on it? Guess again union people and you should already know that.
Yeah I am calling it greed….but only the union being greedy!
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Insert the Nelson from the Simpsons laugh “Ha Ha!”
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At george…..that is why im loven it. &*%$ the union.
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“It’s time for share-holders to reclaim their company and send management back to the table for real give-and-take negotiations.” Funny go ahead and say something like that…. Come on it’s been over a year and they ain’t done it so why do you think now they will.
This is the same Union who brought down the Twinkie, when Teamsters made and agreement with Hostess this Union just said NO we will cause EVERYONE ELSE to loose their jobs.
After seeing this Union do that, how can ANYONE show respect towards them. They were told either accept the offer or we close down, so they just let that happen.
This Union is nothing but a joke, the only people making money during this lock-out is the UNION. Why do you think they have lost over 500 members and they keep dropping in rejections in each vote.
Go find new jobs, from what I have seen no one cares to support your fight. People in jobs right now are willing to lose something to keep their jobs.
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You should have read a little more then. Yes, Hostess was on life support and needed major reworking including the upper level management, but the union doing its part to start that reworking could have possibly saved Hostess.
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So let me get this straight…the union was doing “its part” by putting financial pressure on hostess to get their finances in order? So in essence, if hostess was in the wrong because they could financially handle the unions demands? It almost sounds as though Hostess’s purpose in life was to make their workers rich, not make twinkies. This is a fundamental FLAW in the thinking of the union worker, that the business they work for is there to employ THEM. Umm…it isn’t. They make money, make twinkies, that require employees…in that order. I have to think that if they could have stayed in business and send the union packing they would have done so just like ACS..but they couldn’t. Seems in Hostess’ case, the leech got a little rambunctious and killed the host”ess” before it stopped drinking.
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I’ve said before that the union wasn’t Hostess’s only problem Justine, but what sources are you getting your information from? If it’s ANY union-friendly source, a large percentage of what you’re getting is their spin. If it’s a genuine newspaper or online article or blog, then take a few minutes and Google the author’s name that wrote it. Then pull up some of their other work and take a peek at it.
In MOST cases, it won’t be hard to connect the dots and see where their allegiance lies. Of course, some will say “So what….everyone has opinions about issues”
Yes…they do. But if your JOB is to report the news, then you report the news. You don’t spin the news into a version you find suitable for whatever your agenda might be.
Show us your source that isn’t associated/aligned in ANY way with organized labor. Give us a link to their article or essay so we can see just how completely and objectively they’ve investigated Hostess’s situation and come to their conclusions. I’ve read some of the fluff the union has spun out of the Hostess debacle, and I’d be pretty comfortable entering into a discussion/debate with them….armed with nothing more than some note cards full of THEIR own words.
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Its called the real world Justine.
Companies all across America are moving away from lifetime payment pensions in favor of matching contributions while you work.
For a company to survive today they need people to be off the books when they leave the company.
people are living longer and these companies cannot afford to pay people that have retired for their entire life.
Thats not corporate greed, thats self preservation.
Now we just need to get Unions to join us in the the year 2012, they still think this is 1948.
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“Now we just need to get Unions to join us in the the year 2012, they still think this is 1948.”
In 1948, America could do anything. We were a national success story.
In 2012, we’re a colony of China, importing finished goods and exporting raw materials.
I wish it was 1948, too. Better still–2012, soon to be 2013, but without the treasonous Government in bed with Big Business ruining the American Way, and exporting billions upon billions of dollars to the Communists. Why would we strengthen their economy when our own is on life-support?
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@cbeets – as i understand it 520 have resigned from the original 1300. Rumor control has it a group of now ex-union crossed the line in East Grand Forks and another group on Crookston on Friday thereby,
cutting the 780 left down even more.
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So… so why would ACS bother hiring these employees back and fire the replacement workers? If you’ve been on strike for nearly a year and a half, why should ACS bring them back? When does this end? Will they continue to negotiate or just tell the union that they’re done and none of the employees who stood on picket lines that they don’t have a job to come back to? I and I believe most of the others who aren’t directly involved are tired of hearing about the union employees who obviously don’t want to work whining about not having a job. You don’t like the offer of the latest contract, go find a better one.
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I make it a point to buy Cyrstal Sugar’s great products.
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as if anyone outside of your group cares.
I know all of this has made me care even less about Unions or the people dumb enough to stand around for two years whining when they could have been working.
I for one will just grab a bag of sugar with no regard to who made it.
Now gather of your signs and go home, those standing outside of Walmart last week did nothing but put a face to the group of lemmings that still think they have a job.
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Well your boycott has sure brought Crystal to its knees
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It’s been almost a year and a half since this lockout and yet the union just keeps repeating itself over and over and over and over again about how the farmers this, the farmers that. When are they going to “get it” that the farmers DON’T WANT THEM BACK!! They are in this for the long haul and plan on continuing to do so. The union workers aren’t “getting” that some of their positions have been eliminated in this new workforce. Sure, ACS had a decrease in profits last year having to pay for the out of town replacement workers, but now that they are hiring locals to do the job, they aren’t paying the per diem amounts anymore and they aren’t paying excessive overtime for all those workers to be working seven days a week. ACS is also running the same shifts at every plant! The EGF plant refused to go to the same shift schedule as the rest of the factories, so in turn, the EGF workers constantly got overtime, which ACS is now NOT paying for! Also, they are paying workers the same across the board for certain positions instead of paying outrageous hourly wages to people who really didn’t want to work and were only there to collect the paycheck. Many of the workers now are actually repairing their own machines and/or stations instead of trying to say that it’s not in their job description and having to wait for ACS to hire someone to come fix it, in turn saving money. They are cross training employees so that one person can do two jobs if need be. They clearly aren’t losing that much money because the replacement workers have already gotten a 3% raise, they are getting day one benefits, including 401K with a 4% contribution and another 4% match, they are giving flex dollars to pay for the health insurance premiums, and they are also providing free dental insurance. It’s anybody’s guess as to why the campaigners aren’t crossing when they would get full benefits by doing so, versus sticking out in the union and receiving nothing. The union just won’t look at the big picture and realize they are no longer wanted…by either ACS or the farmers. They have conducted themselves in such a manner that they should be completely ashamed and embarassed…or at least one would think so. Apparently, they do not and even on Friday they were still posting “statistics” about how ACS is losing money. They have been wrong about every single pathetic thing they’ve tried to get the public to believe and why they think we are going to believe anything that comes from them is completely beyond me. I talked to a few farmers tonight and told them the union voted no and their response was “Good, I’m glad.” I also had a few “like” my facebook status about it. If any farmers are telling union members they want them back, they are just being polite…in my honest opinion. You cannot conduct yourself in that manner and think the very people you are trying to pickett, boycott, and bring down are suddenly going to back you. This year is showing to have a record for sugar content in the beets so I’m pretty sure that that is going to make up for the “extra” spending it’s taking to train a whole new workforce…a workforce, that in the long run, is actually going to be cheaper and the farmers will eventually get their money back.
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Very good post.
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They still had shift changes, but the way the other factories are, they work 14 days in a 28-day period, working 12-hour shifts, meaning they had about 8 hours of overtime on each paycheck total. The way the EGF plant was scheduled, and I don’t know the exact specifics about how they did their on and off schedules, but I do know they only worked 8-hour shifts, which meant there was a lot of wiggle room to stay at work longer if someone didn’t show, etc. I have a friend that worked over there and if someone called in, they would ask the person either coming in to show up four hours early or the person leaving to stay four hours longer to cover the 8-hour shift. This happened very frequently so those people would get 4+ hours overtime anytime someone would call in sick which was often. Also, they were never scheduled just 5 days a week. They would often times be scheduled to work seven days in a row, with two off, then be scheduled for another six days, etc. Anything over 8 hours a shift was overtime and anything over 40 hours a week was overtime. In the other plants, they have 12-hour shifts so there are only two people a day per position, whereas EGF was three people per day per position. So in looking at the fact that if one person called in, the other two would get overtime, there was a middle person that just really wasn’t needed when each of the other two easily worked a 12-hour shift, like the other plants. From what I know from this person working in EGF, the union would vote on whether or not to go to the 12-hour shifts because many of the younger ones liked the other plants’ hours, mainly the fact that they got 14 days a month off, but many of the old timers who had become accustomed to all the extra overtime on their paycheck wouldn’t hear of it and the vote was voted down numerous times!
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I worked there way back in the 70′s. We used to have three eight hour shifts that rotated and made life miserable when you had the grave yard because you never worked it long enough to adapt to it. I thought you meant they just worked the same shift all campaign, but I don’t know how that would work logistics wise. I see where it could work with 12 hour shifts with change offs. Never did care for shift work. Damn tough to get used to.
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Simplot keeps you on the same shift. If you are on midnights you get off Wednesday Am at 8 and report back midnight Friday night. The one thing nice about Crystal is they pay you for an 8 hour shift during campaign but at Simplot you only get paid for 7.5 hours. The pay is lower at Simplot but the work conditons are a little better, not as many stairs to climb for maintenace workers makes it a little easier on the aging body. Simplot shuts down every three weeks and hoses the place down. They are also closed on most major holidays. Frankly I feel we are damn lucky to have two great employers in the GF area. Both give their employees remarkable benefits. It’s factory work though and I praise the men and women who choose to work at either place.
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I didn’t see anywhere in the proposal that was reducing the amount of OT employees were going to get only who would be eligible.
Gayle, correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the proposal ask that those qualified be required to work the overtime? Or is it most senior?
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@ Otis. The amount of overtime goes with the need for coverage at the Companies discretion. The Company can choose to ask for coverage for an absent Employee or to run short. It’s up to them. always has been. Overtime assignment goes to the most Senior qualified Employee. Qualifications usually go with the Employees Job Title. I was a process Technition1. There were 6 of us pt1 per shift. I have proven that I was qualified through passing many assessment prior to being awarded the position. I was most senoir of the 6 pt1s on my shift so I could either take the OT. or pass it on to the next Senior Qualified Employee and so on down the line.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Seniority does not equal qualified. Just because you’re an idiot who has been sitting in a position since 1972 doesn’t make you more qualified than the person who started in 2010 and quickly rose to the same position.
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Gayle, Many have known that seniority was obsolete long ago, it is something that should never have started. From the beginning OT should only have gone to the most qualified, not the seniority garbage that had been going on. Operations run more efficient, are more effective without seniority.
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Not to mention that overall production in the factories is better now than it has ever been in the past. There are locked out workers that quit crystal and the union so they could come back to work for crystal. The ones that are still sitting this out, give it up, go find another job. Don’t waste your time voting anymore, There is a better workforce in place now, factories running better than ever. I’m thinking this was a good way to get rid of some lazy union workers and the production shows it.
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Gayle, The smart, the educated know the union does them no good, those are the ones that quit the union once they saw how blind the union is. The ones that saw what was going on turned around, went back to work while the few blindly remaining in the union went off the cliff like lemmings looking for some mythical golden pot with riske in the lead.
Union never really liked cross training, just job specialization then no one could do another job without permission from a union sup. It was very idi otic. Things go smoother when all have ability to do multiple jobs, not have to ask another for permission to do it.
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“What if my Supervisor and say Ted are good buddies. Ted and I both have the same job title but when it comes to OT assignment, the boss skips over me because he knows Ted needs the money. Where does that put me?”
This is the scenario that keeps rearing its ugly head because the union leadership talking heads have done such a marvelous job of making the workers “afraid” of something.
Gayle, how do you suppose the rest of the working world functions? Don’t you think that some “checks and balances” exist? If ANY of the supervisors I’ve had over the last 30 years had a “buddy” they wanted to give extra hours to or whatever, do you think that somehow manages to stay on the *down-low*? Is there ANY way of discovering/tracking that sort of favoritism? Is anyone ELSE in the company capable of recognizing it and reporting it? Are corrupt and/or unethical supervisors “untouchable”?
The union has its reasons for wanting to keep seniority rules in place, but it ISN’T because they’re all that concerned about a supervisor’s “buddy” getting a sweet deal. They SELL YOU that sort of nonsense to make you think the union is needed to combat a laundry list of things they’ve GIVEN YOU to be afraid of.
I’ll ask again: How does this all work outside of “contract land”?
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Cross training is nothing new inmyhonestopinion. I was a process Technician at Crystal before the Lock-out. We were trained to run virtually every station in the Factory.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Cross training is nothing new inmyhonestopinion. I was a process Technician 1 at Crystal before the lockout. A Process Technician was trained to run not just 2 work stations, but virtually every station in the Factory.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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At this point I am beginning to wonder if they are just voting ‘no’, because now if they go back to ACSC they are going to actually be expected to perform and know they can’t.
I could understand voting no twice, but four times? As of this point they are starting to act like congress and with just about as much common sense.
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Gayle: why would your vote change? You need a job? You have bills to pay? Your kids want to eat regardless of what you do to put food on the table?
You have effectively resigned your position. While you may have the financial wherewithall to do that without harm, many of your compatriots do not.
I know of two ACS guys who now commute bi weekly between GF/EGF and man camps. They earn a good living but they hate the work and would like to live at home instead of with a couple hundred drunk smelly roughnecks.
They do not because they take their responsibilities seriously. Both have said they will probably just resign their union positions and go back as scabs.
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Now the bar has been raised. If rookies can set production records with only one year of experience think what will be expected if/when the “experienced” Union members return.
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I don’t see how the union could even surpass what these guys are doing for production so far. The bad weeds are out collecting unemployment.
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Better keep your new job then, The new workers are crushing your production records, production.
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Crystal hasnt released any production numbers since the lock 16 month ago. If they were breaking any records they would have released that information. The only records they are breaking is records the farmers are making in the field.
If the new hires cant get the sugar out of the beet it dosent matter how much is in the beet.
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Then why vote and inform the media? It makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever.
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Nice job Gayle Lund. You keep votting no while this Union continues to lose members. The company is clear it will not change the final offer. More and more retire , find other jobs or cross the line. If this contract is ever signed. You and your buddys can take credit for busting the Union. If this vote had passed. The Union would still have enough member left to rebuild and get ready for the next contract. As it is. You need to ask your Union president how many members are left valley wide. Stop worrying about this being a bad contract compaired to the old contract. Start worrying if you still have enough Union members left to keep from being desertified before this contract ends. Bitter people like you are the reason people are crossing. Your focus is not for the Union of workers. Its to teach the company a lesson. Guess what. Its only giving the company what it wants. A busted Union that stays out for ever.
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This is terrible of me but … did you happen to catch the news at 6 on WDAZ? The young blonde female newscaster said the union was voting on whether or not they would be going back to work on Monday. I nearly spilt by beer laughing. Like it would be that easy to transition the workers back into the work force. No need to even think about it now.
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Riskey’s brand of “logic” never ceases to amuse:
“By now it should be clear that Dave Berg and Crystal Sugar’s management team has no interest in ending a fiscally irresponsible lockout”
A couple of things you *might* have missed Riskey:
1) The “no” votes are what’s keeping the lockout going.
2) The reason behind the contract changes the company wants to make is the realization that previous contracts themselves were “fiscally irresponsible”.
Then there’s this:
“Riskey declined to specify what percentage of union workers participated in Saturday’s vote.”
He “declined to specify”? Sounds like he was asked and didn’t want to answer. Odd…don’t ya think?
“union leaders say the contract would “dismantle union workers’ health coverage,”
We’ve been over THAT one a few thousand times already as well. Good grief.
““We’re going to continue what we have been doing,” he said. “We’re going to go out and talk to our members now and ask them what we can do to get this settled. ”
We’re going out to talk to our members and ask them what we can do to get this settled? What in the world have you “leaders” been doing up until now?
And from the article that preceded this vote, Riskey had this to say:
“Riskey did not want to discuss the implications of the new vote or negotiations leading up to it, saying he just wanted voters to evaluate the offer themselves.
“All we can do is explain what we have to the best of our ability and let them decide from there,” he said. ”
WHAT was there to explain? I think the union “leadership” needs to STOP “explaining what they have” and instead EMPOWER and ENCOURAGE the workers to sit down and read the offer(s) themselves. It’s blatantly obvious that ANY “explaining” of an offer that’s done by a union rep ISN’T going to be done in a manner that’s objective. It’s probably too late to tell the workers to wake up and realize what’s going on here, but I’ll give it a try anyway.
Why, (at this stage of the game), is your “leadership” still telling you that they need to EXPLAIN to you what they have or where they are? Isn’t “what they have” and/or “where they are” completely obvious?
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He faileed to mention how many voted because he didnt want us to know how many people were still actually paying dues today.
Imagine what kind of fool would still be handing the Union money after two years of this.
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Careful there Jeff. The percentage of workers you’re “100 percent behind” is shrinking significantly. Many of your “Union Brothers and Sisters” have changed their minds. Perhaps you ought to sit down with them and ask why.
Then again…maybe not. The hardship this has caused them, the eye-opening experiences they’ve endured and comparisons to compensation packages elsewhere they’ve made that have factored into the changing of those minds ought to be of little concern to you.
The remaining holdouts, (i.e. “no” voters), should soldier on as if they’ve got a chance of “winning” here.
Because doing so pleases you.
Well done sir.
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Nothing like congratulating others for voting to stay unemployed. This is the mentality of the union, do these union members actually believe ACS is hurting over their strike? ACS employees are going home every week with a paycheck, are striking union members?
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That’s right Jeff, stand behind your union brothers and sisters in the soup line on Christmas when they could be working wage earners.
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I’ll bet of the 650-700 union people left………..over 100 of them are going to cross this comming week. Including ME. yes it is a horse crap contract but it’s still better than alot of other jobs. The union is DONE.
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Trumka, head of the AFL-CIO, has a standing invitation to sleep at the White House. I wouldn’t be surprised there would eventually come some sort of retaliation in the way of allowing more cheap sugar into the U.S. in order to set an example to all sugar or food companies of what could happen when you screw with the union. That said, it’s too bad but these are all adults here or so I thought at one time.
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Stupid is as Stupid does.
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Mike, the old contract and the final offer contract have been discussed at great length. The information that has been made available from both sides has ALSO discussed at great length. The decisions handed down by entities such as the NLRB have also been gone over, as has the general conduct and tactics of both sides here.
What is it SPECIFICALLY that you think people are ignorant about?
Appropriate follow-up questions, (I think), would be:
Does organized labor yearn for days gone by when the public on the outside looking in had only the “information” the unions generated and distributed to work with?
Is the brand of ignorance that kind of “information” ends up resulting in preferable somehow?
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Mike, You need to start looking for a job. Not even the union will hand you one.
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By having another NO vote, Riskey keeps his job. He sure isn’t welcome back at Crystal and I don’t know anyone that would hire him that would expect any work out of him. Provisions in that new contract addressed the “seniority” and “outsourcing” issue that specifically targeted dead weight like him (and a couple others that populate this board) that used to be employed by Crystal.
The are still good employees out there that have been hoodwinked by the union leadership. Hopefully this was their final wake up call and *they* go back to to work next week. The union is dead. They shot themselves in the head this time after putting many bullets in their feet.
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Can we all agree that: 1. The workers think they are worth more than the market does. 2. There is no conceivable reason for ACS to change its offer. 3. Continued meetings between the two parties is a waste of time. 4. There be a moratorium on ACS stories until the workers vote to decertify the union or accept the offer.
This whole story nauseates me at this point. 2 seasons have come & gone. You have lost not only the battle but the war. Thank God for the second WalMart opening so you have a place to work.
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5. Unless the Herald can somehow tie in The Fighting Sioux name they whould try to ignor this too in hope that it will go away. At this point any further eforts are pointless….Basically has been for some time already……Basically like a benched player who keeps thinking they’ll get back in the game while everyone has pretty much counted them out for good already.
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Well said
Hot debate. What do you think?
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There may be 0 incentive for the full-timers who have been there for a long time to cross over, but the campaigners who get absolutely 0 benefits being part of the union, would be better off crossing! They will get full benefits now and they didn’t previously! I’d say that’s a pretty darn good incentive right there! Those people are paying union dues, but are, in all reality, getting no union benefit! That is why I posed my question!
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An important note here is that the “Campaigners” aren’t even allowed to vote even though they are paying union dues. Why else do you think Riskey and the union never release actual voting totals? They don’t want anyone to see actual totals. Actual votes cast probably totaled in the 3-400 range. They need to keep the misinformation train rolling.
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Ron, I’ve got to ask….why did they schedule and hold the vote?
And if there’s “0 incentive” for them to accept the offer, why do more of them vote to accept the offer…each time a vote is held?
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The reason they scheduled a vote was people asked for one and the company clarified some language in the back to work agreement. What happened was the 10% or so of voters that don’t pay dues until there is a vote and dont intend to return to work, like Gayle. Showed up and voted this contract down. Keeping people that are actually considering returning to work with a Union in tack from doing so. In affect crapping on thier own.
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trouble with anything riskey says is what can you believe? he seems to have woven a web of deception since the begining of all of this. who really knows how many voted and what the real outcome was? he has brought this mis-trust upon himself.
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At ron….. that is one reason about 50 of us have put in our application today.
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At the beginning I was totally behind the union. I still do not respect Crystal Sugar and will avoid buying its products, though I don’t use much sugar, anyway. However, you’ve got to know when to hold ‘em and know when to fold ‘em. Ask yourselves, are you better off now without your jobs than you would have been if you had agreed to pay some of your health insurance…something that virtually every other person who has health benefits has been doing for many years?
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Why no respect for Crystal? I think that they should be proud of how they have dealt with this. Everything that they have done is in print and available for all to see. It would be so easy for them to publicly tear apart the union leadership and their constant bungling. But they have not. Where has Crystal gone wrong?
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Crystal’s goal from the beginning was to bust the union. They did that. They did not negotiate. It was a take it or leave it offer. Still, I believe the union should have realized after the second vote, that this was not a battle they were going to win. They should have grudgingly accepted the offer. I don’t respect the union workers for their lack of good sense (I respect the union leaders even less.), but neither do I respect Crystal Sugar for what was essentially a bully’s approach to bargaining. There could have been a more gradual easing into changes that would have created less tension throughout the valley. The animosity Crystal Sugar created through their lockout may have looked good if the bottom line is $$$ only, but the bottom line should never exclude treating people with respect. That didn’t happen. What has resulted is that people like me, who have almost no connection at all to the issue, other than choosing what brand of sugar to buy, have no respect for Crystal Sugar nor for the union.
Crystal’s goal from the beginning was to avoid a strike in mid-campaign. The offer that remains on the table includes a generous raise in wages. Most union-busting offers don’t include a big raise. The reason it was a take it or leave it final offer was because they knew that a lockout or strike would be incredibly expensive for the co-op. Once that money was spent, why would Crystal sweeten their offer?
I don’t see this as a bullying approach. Both sides were represented by highly paid negotiators and this wasn’t anybody’s first time at the dance. If you read through all of the information posted at http://www.acsccontracttalks.com/ (and I have), you will see that the union was very comfortable in slow-playing the negotiations. I am particularly amused by their initial offer found here: http://www.acsccontracttalks.com/bctgm.proposal.pdf and keep in mind that there were less than 3 months remaining on the contract when the initial proposals were exchanged. My conclusion is that virtually all of the responsibility of this lockout lays in the lap of BCTGM negotiator Steve Bertelli. The locals were played like a fiddle by their national union.
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I’m not pleased with the company either but the AFL-CIO leadership is a rotten lot. Richard Trumka should be in prison for some of the things he has done. He once pleaded the Fifth in front of congress while being questioned about misappropriated funds used to pay for a union president’s relection. The AFL-CIO by-laws state anyone pleading the Fifth can no longer hold office. Yet there Trumka sits, at the head of the AFL-CIO. He reminds me of Putin. He rules by fear and intimidation. He actually has blood on his hands after a contractor was shot in the back of the head and killed while leaving a jobsite at a mine that was on strike. The union members who committed the crime were told to “beat the sh!t out of anyone crossing the line” by Trumka who at that time was president of the United Mine Workers. He lost a wrongful-death civil suit brought against him and others by the widow. They fought hard for four years but caved two days after the judge in the case ruled information from the criminal case was admissable in the civil suit. They paid out $27 million for the death of that man. I don’t have any sympathy for union members who follow his rules. And to think, in his own words, he visits the White House weekly.
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I’m sure ACS is going to go bankrupt knowing that you won’t buy that 5 pounds of sugar this year.
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” My boycott started the day I found out about the lock-out”
I’d say that’s not really anything to be proud of. Your boycott hit the ground running before you could have known any real details about the situation. Have you noticed any shift in the attitudes and opinions of the general public as more details have come to light? Have you missed ALL of the posts that have started out with things like, “I was on the union’s side in the beginning, but then I found out that…..”?
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I think Crystal has been very open. You can go to http://www.acsccontracttalks.com/ and see what they have to say and what the current contract offer is http://www.acsccontracttalks.com/final.off.pdf
Crystal’s “Return to Work Proposal” is http://www.acsccontracttalks.com/return.pdf
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@ lefty, This is not the 1940′s anymore. Unions certainly did wonders for the American worker and they were needed. Move forward to present day and these protections for min. wage, safe working conditions, hours, etc. are now mandated by the government. The gov’t is pro worker, that should even make the ACS case more apparent that the union is making a poor choice in a fight. The union would be much better off working with companies to define an advantage as to why unions will help a company. Instead, they push for wages and benefit packages that are not sustainable. Unions had thier place and they still do, but not every contract that comes up needs to be fought. The money needs to come from somewhere to pay the workers. This is something that most unions workers and now the Left sided followers and politicians don’t seem to get. Money does not just appear, something has to be created to generate it. Say what you will, but sugar is trending downward and upcoming years will not be as profitable. ACS union workers do not have to deal with this. They also do not deal with the input to improve the factories and all costs associated with running it.
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My expectation was that this would have been a more lopsided vote on the side of rejecting the contract. What is surprising to me is the fact that 45% of the remaining union members are continuing to pay dues even though they appear to be willing to go back to work under the offer provided by ACSC. I am not trying to bash either side, but it would be nice to have an explanation why someone willing to accept the contract would still be paying union dues. Please go beyond the superficial statement that it is “solidarity”; while that may be true for some of the union members, I suspect that solidarity means little to those who are having difficulty paying bills
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“The term “locked out” is a joke. The union CHOSE (4 times), to reject the offer.
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Every vote to except the contract will be rejected. Why? Because those that would like to except the offer are quiting the union, leaving only the no voters left for the next vote that is held. All because time is taking it’s toll.
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Joe Smith: I think there’s a reasonable answer to your question. If I quit the union and attempt to go back to work, ACS may not want to hire me back. I could be out of the fight and permanently out. There’s some seniority value and other issues, so it’s probably more complicated than we think. Also, I don’t think ACS was attempting to bust the union, at all. The ACS folks I know were in complete shock with the 96% opposition on the first ballot.
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The union members can apply first. They don’t have to quit the company and the union until they are offered a position at ACS. This is in a letter to the employees on the company’s web-site.
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Thanks. I get some of my “facts” from gossip at breakfast.
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