National view: Thanksgiving shopping ruining a cherished tradition
November 19, 2012 at 6:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
Call me old-fashioned, but the plan by major big-box retailers to open for business even earlier on Thanksgiving night just makes me sad.
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Add grocery stores to the list. They are open on Thanksgiving. If you are shopping for turkey on that day you are too late.
To add insult to injury, Target is taking religious Christmas songs and putting their shopping words to them coming from obnoxious screeching 20 somethings.
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If it is just a departure from tradition then don’t go shopping .I can remember when nothing was open on Sunday Now most everthing is Being a border town wis has liquor stores open mn doesn’t let the owners decide. I have worked many holidays and I haven’t suffered I remember one christmas day that there was 5 water main brakes and we had crews that stayed on the job
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— who are being forced —
There’s the rub. Nobody is being FORCED to do anything. He is implying that retailers shouldbe FORCED not to open Thanksgiving night.
This man is the agressor in this story.
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He’s talking about the employees. Lots of people are forced to work on Holidays. It’s rarely the employers.
If you google “vacation leave by country,” you’ll see that we rank pretty pathetically compared to other countries. Companies should be giving more time off, not less.
Forcing businesses to stay closed on holidays is an extreme solution. But if employers keep trying to force their workers to give up their holidays, rather than giving them incentives to do so voluntarily, maybe it’ll come to that.
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Right again, David. Where’s the force? Target, WM, et al aren’t Jedi masters! If shoppers declined to shop on Thanksgiving Day, the stores would not be open. If the stores weren’t open, employees would not need to work. The columnist’s remark that slick ads by the retailers are causing consumers to want Thursday shopping is bizarre. People don’t have the option nor the resolve to ignore the ads?
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In a large sense, people no longer do have the option to ignore advertisements, since everywhere you look, there’s bound to be an advertisement for something. The entire holiday season consists of little more than commercialism.
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So it is the shoppers responsibility to not shop on these days in order to save people from having to work on a holiday?
What kind of nonsense is that? The retailers are offering deals that are at ridiculous discounts in order to draw people there and people will always try to save a buck.
The simple fact is, as a retail employee, you either work Black Friday/Grey Thursday or they find someone else who will and it will likely cost you a job. Nobody who gets paid what a retail employee gets paid should have to choose between family or work.
But that is precisely what these retailers are doing. Not only that, they are doing it unnecessarily. The drive to have earlier deals doesn’t have to start on Thanksgiving day.
They could just as easily have a black Sunday 4 days earlier and start their deals then. It would not change anything in respect to how many people show up or how many people camp outside the doors.
The shoppers are not camping out because this happens on a Thursday or a Friday, they are camping out because of the deals.
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I don’t go shopping on Thanksgiving or Black Friday, thank goodness. However, the stores are open because there is a demand. If people want to shop on those days, why wouldn’t they be open?
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Why not have shopping 365 days a year 24/7 ? Who needs those awful holidays where familys get together and eat a good meal and enjoy life for a day. People need to work and make money for the greedy. Ban the holidays!
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Some of us don’t have families to spend time with on the holidays. Ever thought of that?
Maybe some people don’t like their families. Maybe for some people that IS their family time.
If YOU don’t like it, don’t do it. Plain and simple. Why is that so hard for some to comprehend?
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Patrick, thats why they call it a holiday, you can spend it anyway you want, unless you’re one of the people that are being told they can’t.
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That’s such a ridiculous oversimplification. It’s not that people are just dying to shop the night of Thanksgiving. The problem people have is that, not only do people have to work on this holiday, but these major retailers are giving out massive incentives for people to participate in this event. Supply creates demand. So it’s only rational that people participate in this. They will 10 times out of 10. All the moral fiber in the world isn’t going to make everybody miss out on a good deal. If it did, it would fly in the face of every economics textbook that was ever published.
I just wonder why it has to be Black Friday? Why not Black Saturday? I think that’s what people have the biggest problem with. The complains about consumerism and so forth are just ancillary.
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Exactly.
People are not shopping on Black Friday because it is Friday. They are shopping because of the ridiculous deals.
The race to be the first retailer to be open for black Friday discounts does not have to creep into thanksgiving. They could just as easily do it 4 days earlier on the previous Sunday and just as many people would show up.
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We have no one to blame but US! If there wasn’t such a greedy, insatiable demand to shop and GET A GREAT DEAL, the stores wouldnt be open. If no shoppers showed up, the stores would be closed. Blame us. Blame yourself. It’s our fault. Own up to it, and quit pointing fingers. You want to make a difference? Dont shop on “Black Friday.” Otherwise, stop whining.
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Lets not mention the stores that set the bait out(good deals) that lure the prey in. Those poor major retailers that just to make a buck. I wonder if the store owners get the holiday off?
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want
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Simple, don’t go on Black Friday (or even the weekend) if you don’t want. Spend the time with your family instead. Your time with them is worth a lot more to them than some cheap consumer goods (or it should be). As to those without family, we are once again hosting some folks that don’t have family in the area or can’t go home for the holidays. Back some decades ago when it was just the two of us in grad school, we used to have anyone who wanted to come over for dinner
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I think some may be missing the point. Family time – family traditions are becoming a way of the past. Lose some of those traditions and you lose much of what binds many families together. I don’t think the author of this was implying that the stores should legally not be allowed to open. I think he was more appealling to the owners to try to think beyond the dollar. I agree – if you don’t want to shop, don’t. I certainly won’t be out there on Thanksgiving or with the masses at 4am on Black Friday to save 20.00.Christmas is too commercial as it is and personally I am constantly trying to remember it isn’t about just crossing names off my frantic shopping list. I understand that some people don’t have those traditions and are looking for something to do but sadly, once more retailers choose to open on Thanksgiving, then it will be big sales a week before, and then a week before that and Thanksgiving will just be another day. I welcome a day off to be with family when possible and to reflect on things I am personally thankful for. I appreciate this author’s words.
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On one hand, I do feel bad for the employees who are scheduled to work these holidays. I have friends who have had to do it and it can be extremely disruptive to a person’s life. Not only because they miss family functions but because they’re suddenly scheduled to work from 9 p.m. to 5 a.m. when they’re use to working day shifts. I get it. That totally sucks.
On the other hand, when people apply for a job at Target or Walmart they’re doing so knowing full well that they’re applying at a place that embraces this faux holiday. You can’t complain about working holidays when you accepted a job that requires you to work holidays.
I’ve been in the mental health business for 10+ years. We provide services 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. I knew this when I accepted the job so I can’t sit here and complain about it. If I didn’t like the terms of the job that was offered to me, I was more than welcome to go somewhere else.
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The whole point of all this why should someones(employees) holiday be taken away from them because of greed. It’s not an emergancy situation like a utility co. Fine, some of these people don’t care if they have to work. What about the ones that want to enjoy their holiday and can’t? It’s a NATIONAL holiday that people should have off. If these big corporations get their foot in the door it’s the begining of the end.
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I completely understand where you’re coming from but to me, they don’t really have a right to complain. these employees that are up in arms about being scheduled to work black friday are the ones that applied and accepted a job with the soul-sucking, money-hungry company. they were all aware when they were hired that this horrible ‘holiday’ was a big part of their employer’s business and that they’d more than likely have to work it.
everyone blames the businesses but the truth is that if we (the consumers) didn’t want this, it wouldn’t exist. this black friday nonsense is what it is because a bunch of greedy bafoons are willing to camp out overnight in front of the store of their choice so they can get a $15 toaster for $.99.
it’s something i’ll never understand, but it’s nothing to complain about.
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Every year when this story comes out, the same comments are repeated again and again. “Nobody’s forcing anybody to do anything.” “You knew what you were getting into when you accepted that job.” And so forth.
That’s classic libertarian-right rhetoric. But it ignores a massive part of the issue- personal circumstance. People must work. There’s really no long-term way around it. You need to pay for a place to sleep, because you’ll get harassed by the police if you sleep outside. And you need to eat. So there’s the force. Sure, you could say nobody’s forcing anyone to work at those establishments, but again that completely ignores personal circumstance. Not everyone can work for a business that offers holidays off, because there aren’t enough positions available. And not everyone can be self-employed, because only a small fraction of the market demands work that can be fulfilled through self-employment. So, if you don’t happen to land yourself a job in either of these two categories, you need to work for a company that will likely force you to work holidays: foodservice, retail, home healthcare, etc. What else do you call it if not force? If it weren’t force, you could negotiate the terms of your employment before being hired. But there is never negotiation – it’s always top-down: here’s the deal, accept it or get out. So, as long as people need to eat, and it’s illegal to sleep outside, people are indeed being forced to work these jobs because there’s essentially no other way to survive in this market.
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Nobody who works retail should have to choose between work or family.
That choice should be reserved for those who get paid well enough, or work jobs that are essential to everyday life.
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dorkus and merv…
I generally agree with most everything you guys say, but in this instance, not so much (though I do completely understand your argument and think there are valid points to be made.)
Before anyone gets the wrong impression… I don’t work some fancy, 9-5, Monday thru Friday, high paying job I was only able to get after 4 years at a good college. I’m a high school graduate who got an entry level position in the mental health field and I’ve worked my way up the ladder by busting my butt. I’m also not some right-wing, pro-business nut that thinks the little man should sell their souls for $7.50 an hour so their employer can make billions of dollars.
Thing is, I was here at my place of employment Thanksgiving Day. I missed family stuff. It sucks, but I don’t complain. Why? Because I knew when I took this job that working holidays came with the gig… and I can potentially work EVERY holiday. We don’t close on Christmas, Easter, etc. We’re a 24/7, 365 business unlike a lot of those big box stores people are getting so mad at.
A few years before I got this job I worked at a gas station. Same deal: 24/7, 365. I was there most holidays selling candy bars, pop and cigarettes… hardly a necessity. I’m not reading about these minimum wage gas station employees complaining and protesting because they’re stuck working ONE major holiday… and they probably get paid less and have crappier benies than the people that work at Target.
I just don’t think the majority of the people that work at Target (for example) have much of a right to complain. Target’s been doing this as long as I can remember. If I went to Target today and applied for a job, I’d do so knowing that come next Thanksgiving, I’d probably be giving up my evening because of work. If these people weren’t ok with that, there are plenty of other places they could work that would better suit their needs. Heck… they could get a job at Wendy’s making almost the same amount of money and they wouldn’t be forced to work this ridiculous, fake holiday.
I don’t get Black Friday. I never have and never will. Personally, I’ll gladly pay more money for something just so I don’t have to deal with the crowds of crabby, rude shoppers and the irritated employees who obviously don’t want to be there.
I think, since this stupid “holiday” isn’t going anywhere, we should make it a legal holiday. Give government officials a paid day off. Most of ‘em probably take a vacation day anyway… that way these people can at least get Holiday pay for their work.
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Samhane, the problem I have with this whole deal is not “Black Friday”. The thing that bugs me the most is yes these workers were well aware of having to work on Friday. However the powers that be decided to cut short the workers holiday and open early on Thursday. I don’t believe that was part ofthe bargin. I have worked many holidays which was my choice to do so. Some of these people don’t have that option and don’t get paid more either.
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Samhane, I too have worked on a number of major holidays including Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve, and I worked for a food service company, not a major retailer. My core argument is that there are very few openings in the job market for jobs that won’t force you to work holidays. So really, it’s irrelevant that you knew about it before accepting the job. What other choice is there? You brought up a good point when you said that you don’t hear about gas station workers complaining. I believe they have every right to complain, and people should hear their stories.
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I understand what you are saying and you make a very valid point. There are jobs where you take on the responsibly of working those days even at a low wage.
I guess the difference here is that when you signed up for your job, you knew that you would be working Thanksgiving. The people who work for Target and the other retailers (Sans Wal-mart, as they are in their own little world of employee punishment) signed up for their jobs knowing full-well they would have to work Black Friday but DIDN’T know they would have to work Thursday.
This Grey Thursday event is new and THAT is what the problem is, Black Friday creeping into Thursday when it doesn’t really have to. Retailers do not NEED to start their deals on Thanksgiving night, they could do it the previous night or even the previous Sunday.
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Nobody is forcing anyone to go shopping. Don’t blame retailers.
Walmart reports biggest Black Friday sales ever this year.
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This has nothing to do with Black Friday. Black Friday is fine, but when it creeps into Thursday we are having a problem.
The retailers may not be forcing people to shop, but they ARE essentially forcing people to work those days. You either work that day or you lose your job, that is enough of a consequence to be considered force.
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I purchased over $1000 worth of gifts, all online without waiting 1 second in line, for prices as good or better than those on “black Friday,” and I’m mostly referring to the “doorbusters,” and I’m not all that brilliant….
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