A leap off fiscal cliff means jump in N.D., Minnesota taxes
November 17, 2012 at 11:09 pm in Grand Forks Herald
A North Dakota family of four earning $84,896 could pay $4,825 more in taxes in 2013 than they did in 2011 if Congress and President Obama take the nation into a running leap off the so-called “fiscal cliff,” a Tax Foundation study said. A Minnesota family of four earning $87,319 could end up paying another $4,382 in income taxes. Continue Reading
So? We just go back to the tax levels of 2001 and still less than it was from 1940 – 1980. Granted they need to fix the AMT which was never indexed to inflation and the only reason it is now a problem. As to the payroll tax cut, that temporary fix is making the problem worse for SS and was never meant to last more than 2 years. Let the tax cuts expire and let the spending cuts take effect.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Because moving the country “BACKWARDS” was Obamas campaign slogan? right?
Do you suppose we will go back to the pre 80′s philosophy that everyone has to work to get what they have in life? Maybe the philosophy that not everyone is entitled to a house of their own and that they have to be able to afford one?
Or are we going to stick with the entitlement philosophy that got us here and just go back to the years of high taxation? Good idea.
But its not SOCIALISM…. People paying more and more, while the govt takes that money and turns it into entitlements to care for the people….. Nahhhh, thats surely not what Socialism is.
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They must make the tax cuts permanent or there most definitely will be more layoffs in this country plus manufacturing will be hurt. It would put this country into a much worse situation than it is in now.
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Does that also include going back the spending levels of 2001?
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Enjoy the new Middle Class taxation people.
You voted for him.
You could have kept your money ion your pocket and just let the govt get its affairs in order and stop spending like a drunk at 3am watching QVC, but nooooooo, you would rather the Govt keep providing people with grants and free stuff.
Well you got what you wanted. Enjoy.
Whatever the additional taxes clome to will just be recouped in my household by not buying something that i would have bought had i had the money.
Thats going to be wonderful for the economy when people stop spending to make up for the extra taxation.
But i guess voting for a President in hopes of getting Gay Marriage allowed was more important.
FacePalm implied….
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No, i am all for spending cuts.
I am against going over the cliff just to keep entitlement programs in place and a faulty tax code in place.
I am all for having the 47% of the country that pays ZERO in taxes start paying at least 10% of their income.
If i’m paying 25% and about to go to 28% i dont think its too much to ask that those considered poor at least contribute 10%.
We are all Americans and we should all share the burden, i didnt force anyone to drop out and work at Wal-Mart or McDonalds for slave wages. That was their decision.
Maybe having them be responsible for part of the nations debt and budget will encourage them to get more education and build a better life for themselves. if not, at least they contribute something indstead of nothing. No one should be going to work everyday and and at the end of the year getting a free pass. 10% is a fair contribution and the funds raised by having 1/2 the nation finally contribute would be MASSIVE!
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yes, we also pay 25% but the net rate is more like 14% at the end of the year after deductions. I suspect yours is too. As to the poor and the walmart workers, they already pay that 10% but again, at the end of the year after deductions, their net rate is 0. If you want to change the tax code so they don’t get their 10% back, it would also move your rate (and mine) back up to a net rate of 25%. You are trying to have it both ways and raise the bottom taxes while not changing yours. .
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A guy at Walmart pays $1000 into the tax system throughout the year, after filing and taking standard deductions he receives a check from the IRS for $1500.
Therefore, he got his $1000 back and a free gift of $500.
How does that work? How is that paying your fair share?
Meanwhile, i send Uncle Sam lets say $8000 over the course of a year and i get a bill asking for 3,000 – 5,000 more.
And no, i dont make six figures.
I dont have a problem paying taxes, i have a problem with 47% paying zero or even getting a gift every April.
And then these same people have the guts to complain that the rich arent paying their fair share.
Mirror please……
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I think you got that bass akwards….The real story is the “Too big to fail” banks who almost put us in another depression, then got a bail out, and then because they made so much less than their projected earnings they ended up with millions and billions back. If the working class screws the pooch like that we’re out on our ear. No mega severance package, no gov bail out, and no big money back from the gov to cover our bets we screwed up on.
By the way Cap…you have all this disdain for the poor, but in reality many of them are the working poor who don’t make enough for both food and rent. After all that money the wealthy has gotten back from the tax cuts you’d think there’d be both more and better paying jobs. Where’s all those jobs the so called “Job creators” are supposed to be creating? That has been the mantra behind giving them these tax cuts….It been over a decade and were still waiting for the “Job creators” to create
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No, the Capt has it right. I know of a gal I used to work with a few years ago. She quit her job in March of the year. Didn’t get another job. Single mom to 3 kids. Live-in boyfriend didn’t work either. She lived off of govt hand outs for the rest of the year, including her housing and her car. Explain to me how the next spring she got a “tax refund” of nearly $10,000? I promise she didn’t even earn that much in the 3 months she worked, much less pay that much in. Meanwhile, I worked full-time that year as did my husband. We have two children. Our federal tax refund was barely $1,000, and we had to pay into state. We do not live off of govt assistance of any sort.
So tell me why should the American people continue to work hard? It’s tempting to just pop out another kid or two, and quit our jobs so that we can have everything paid for, and extra money to spare. Go ahead, raise the taxes… it’s just going to put more people on the govt dime instead of their own. But that seems to be the preferred way to live anymore.
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I have no idea how that’s even possible…You tell me how that can happen? If there was such a loop hole then it should be fixed, but the loop holes the mega wealthy have helped write into the system for themselves really amkes any of thes examples half a spit in the bucket by comparison…
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“Sen. John Hoeven, R-N.D., counts himself among those who want to find a bipartisan plan that works.
His preference is to have a plan that closes tax loopholes, limits deductions and holds tax rates or brings them down. He said that should spur the economy and eventually bring in more in taxes to help cut the nation’s budget deficit.”
Imagine that! Someone is finally addressing the real problem and its one of those EVIL RICH REPUBLICANS!
Why have the Dems not been fixing this since day one 4 years ago?
Its so awesome how they portray the GOP as the rich and evil ones skirting tax laws and hiding money yet they not once attempted to close the loopholes that made it legal. Could it be because they were using them too? DUH!!!!!! Dang Sheep too caught up in drinking the DNC Kool-aid to realize it.
Next step is to abolish Congress from taking tax dollars and sending it to their states to use on State and local projects (Earmarks) and to stop all Grants and zero interest loans.
Universities across the country are given billions in grants every year, time to use some of that cash that students give you called TUITION! Half the studies are garbage anyway, just quick cash grabs by the school.
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Why didn’t Republicans do what you proposed between 2001 and 2006? They had their chance then but didn’t do anything. Both Republicans and Democrats are responsible for the problems.
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Both are responsible, but the debt didnt go flying toweards a cliff at lightspeed until Obama took office.
Maybe a little less time blaming Bush and a little more time working on solutions would be in order.
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Simple, the Democrats have never wanted the problems fixed. They want the issue every 2 or 4 years for the election cycles.
Gay Marriage – Brought up ever election year
Immigration Reform – Again, election issue
Taxes – You got it, election
Limp along, solve nothing, put forth ridiculous proposals, blame Republicans, get elected. Tried an true strategy.
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It is sad that there was no time or effort made to try to explain this issue before the election. Two weeks later and the press is writing Econ 101 articles. Why couldn’t we try to inform the voters BEFORE the election?
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Because the press supports a govt run by the Democratic Party.
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You mean the corporate media? That Dem press? The same media that basically overlooked so much of the mitt witt to endorse him? That coporate dem media? Wow…Who’d thunk that eh?
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Yes I know…The evil Dems and Obama are totally at fault for not cleaning up the mess the GOP has put us in since Regan. Cap. You love to hate so called entitlement programs, but you never seem to take issue with the real leeches…Coporations that have made it so they not only get away with so many loop holes, but actually get welfare in many cases.
Regardless….The bottom line is this is one huge and complicated mess that will need to be taken care of in stages because there’s not going to be one big quick fix to any of this. Do you know that one of the real problems with all this is that there is so much money going to so many places that it’s difficult to even do a complete audit. One reporter a few years ago went through some of the programs getting money and discoverd a few that had basically ceased to exist, yet someone was putting the money into some new projects. That’s something that really needs to get straightened out….Where the hell is all the money actually going.
Anyway…If it make you feel better (Or bitter) to blame Obama and the Dems…Then so be it, but that’s counter productive. If you honestly think Rove and the neo-cons had a plan that helped anyone but the power brokers…….I got some nice swamp land you might be interested in…..
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Corporations don’t pay taxes, their customers do.
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This is unfortunately true, especially in the oil industry. They make record profits and we still subsidize them.
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I blame the Democrats because its been 4 years and NOTHING has been done.
Blaming the GOP from the past like Obama does will do NOTHING to fix it.
Who is in office right now?
Who has the power to make the changes right now?
Hint: Its NOT Bush.
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What this story and these responses to the “fiscal cliff” are forgetting is the economic perspective. Say we go over the fiscal cliff, it will get resolved within a month or two, and all of the worries this story talks about are gone. The most impact you might see is your tax return is delayed. Some social programs will be reduced, some taxes on the very wealthy will go up. My biggest worry is if I should buy six or seven pounds of crab for our Thanksgiving feast. Course, I’m a younger fellow and I don’t believe in the doomsday predictions of older voters… from either party.
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WOW!
That is the exact thinking that got Obama re-elected and will ensure we go down in flames as a nation.
All is well until that very moment your boss lets you go because he cant afford to keep you due to taxation and Obamacare.
Then lets see how carefree things are for you.
My guess is that you will quickly have an opinion then.
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I find soothsayers unconvincing, but sarcastic soothsayers are poorly dressed cynics. Despite your efforts, I can’t hang on to the stubborn political fear that seems to drive your posts. It’s likely I’ll go through the next several days without even saying the words fiscal cliff, yet alone thinking about the concept. But keep on trying to predict that which cannot be predicted. There are always those who claim to know more than they can know.
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Forget buying crab, I married a 160 lbs. of it.
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We are way overdue for spending cuts. Sure, there will be some screaming. Here in ND, we are sitting good with a better economy than most of the country, so the sting of cuts won’t be as much.
The money printing has to stop. The more money that is printed, results in the devaluing of the dollar. That results in inflation.
With all the spending (and proposed spending) going on, one thing is for sure: inflation. Costs are going up for most expenses.
We need to tame the spending, pay down some debt and get people to earn a living.
Inflation: count on it.
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Also disappointing on how the problem is almost completely glosssed over. One sentence hid in the middle “Of the $3.63 trillion in federal spending planned for fiscal year 2012, about one-third of it is financed by borrowing, the Congressional Budget Office reports. ”
They ignore the problem and spend most of the article talking about how a change might affect you. Does anyone believe paying for 1/3 of the government expenses with credit is sustainable? Will the current pathway not “affect us” in the near future?
Although better than the useless tripe that passed for journalism before the election, this still avoids anything that resembles real analysis or truly meaningful discussion.
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Mike S. you said it. I have heard the statistic that 40% of the government budget spending is from borrowed sources.
We are on a path to Socialism and that is going to be more spending and more INFLATION.
Better stock up on stuff now. Prices are not going to go down.
BTW: People complain about the high price of fuel. Since the US abuses the US Dollar worldwide, it has caused the loss of trust in the fiat dollar. That causes us to pay more for oil that is purchased around the world for our fuel.
INFLATION: Better believe it. It is the future of the Socialist States of America.
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“Job creaters” and “entitlements” defenitions are all fox creations. If job creaters actually created jobs instead of buying new toys america would be in much better shape than it is.
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I will tell you all something that should concern you as taxpayers of North Dakota, the business practices of Student Loans of North Dakota. Verbal agreements mean nothing to them, and they come off with a “my way or the highway” attitude that should concern you all as taxpayers whether you have student loans with them or not. Had I had a conversation recorded with them where they broke their deal, they would be looking at a very large lawsuit, but since they deny the conversation ever took place, all I can do is use my rights as a citizen to speak to taxpayers of their practices in hopes an elected official or consumer watchdog group picks this up and looks into their practices.
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Social security is not an “entitlement” when you are forced to pay into a program you have the right for the program to pay you back when you retire.
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Do you have to get $1.00 for the $0.75 you paid in? They setup SS based on the baby boom demographics where there were 6? people working for each person receiving benefits. In the long term it is not sustainable in its current form. 75% sustainable, yes, and it shouldn’t be eliminated but changes are needed.
Saying you have a right to today’s benefits is dishonest.
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I have a right to what I paid in. That is not an “entitlement” by the words actual defenition. Does reform need to happen? Yes. Will we like it no. Are we lazy because we expect the government to pay up when their bill is due? I do not think so. Bill orielly lumped social security recievers with welfare recipients when he stated 47 percent of americans like their “free stuff” and romney lost because of these “lazy americans”.
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Agreed. You have a right to 75% of your SS benefits and getting SS does not mean you like “free stuff” from the gov. It doesn’t make you a “taker”.
However the “don’t touch SS because I paid in and now I deserve it” is dishonest because those who are 25 and are paying in like you did will either have to start paying more or end up getting lower benefits.
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You have as much right to get your SS money back as you do your federal income tax money, which is zero because it’s all been spent. Money going to you is contingent on future revenue and the future prospects for that are not bright. It all goes into the general fund and it’s gone.
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Ron, I assume you’d agree that everyone should get back what they paid in. Since 1995 the top 10% do not receive back what they paid in and as of last year that had increased to the top 20% can anticipate receiving less than they paid in. Like most federal programs it is quickly turning into a program for the redistribution of assets. How about everyone getting back the same proportion as they paid in instead of you getting 100% and others getting less than 100%. Also, although many people still keep insisting that the new health care act doesn’t impose a tax, starting January 1st individuals with an income in excess of $200,000 will be paying an additional 3.8% Medicare tax. Also, are you willing to apply the same logic to Medicare? The average Medicare recipient will receive in excess of $250,000 in benifits than are paid into the system; the shortfall is made up with income tax collected from those that pay income tax.
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The problem with the 47 percent argument is you are including social security and medicare recipients with food stamp and hud abusers. Bill orielly openly admitted this to a democratic reporter when he was talking about the election results. His honesty is the only reason I will give his show a sliver of respect. The problem is he throws out a wild alligation that 47 percent of americans voted for obama because they “like free stuff” followed by a report on minority and women votes. He does this report quickly and sweeps it aside to go in depth on the real issues with the republican party. He plants a seed in the viewing public that only gets torn apart by a smart reported. That is the problem with fox news in the extreme right. They are trying to define america as a bunch of lazy dependents when it is extremly opposite. The only takers are the top 10 percent. They love profits but do not want to reinvest their profits back into america. They take their profits to mexico and china instead and have the gull to say it is because of the “lazy american society”.
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To say the top 10% are takers is absolute bunk. Show any reasonable data to back that up. It doesn’t even take a smart reporter to tear that apart. And then to claim they take their profits to Mexico and China. How many of the top 10% either live in or have a second home in Mexico or China?
Go read the Congressional Budget Office publication #43373, published in July of this year. These top 10%ers pay over 20% of their income to federal taxes. The 40% to 60%ers (averaging $64.3k per year) pay at less than 1/2 that rate. That is all federal taxes, not just income taxes. Educate yourself and stop this hatred of the top 10%, instead thank them for all they do for this country.
BTW: I agree those on the other side should stop the demonizing of the 47%.
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Step 1: Provide a path to citizenship (or at least working visas) for millions of undocumented immigrants
Step 2: Collect billions more in taxes every year once it’s all above the table
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Thank you job creators for dumping your stocks and driving the market down the day after obama is elected. Thank you job creators for laying off employees days after obama is elected. Thank you job creators for calling half of americans lazy and “entitled”.
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So who is left for you to live off of then? The government gets their money from the job creators. The people who contribute nothing hate the people that are their meal ticket. Try figure that one out.
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The problem with medicare is people are hooked up to machines and barely consious for a year longer than they need to be. Once families start letting go instead of dragging out long painful and extreme efforts to keep their loved one “alive” our country will have a stronger medicare system.
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