National view: A new America speaks
November 10, 2012 at 6:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
So much for voter suppression. So much for the enthusiasm gap. So much for the idea that smug, self-appointed arbiters of what is genuinely “American” were going to “take back” the country, as if it had somehow been stolen.
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What Robinson says is true and I agree with most of it. However, at some point we have to be sure that we aren’t putting ethnic origin against national interest. If the facts point to the conclusion, let’s say, that China is manipulating currency which would impact our economy, then they have to be called on it and a national policy has to be implemented to deal with that. No one must be concerned of the emotional impact on Asians should that happen. And more importantly, Asians must support such a policy if they wish to be citizens of this nation. Where the right fails, again and again, is to magnify problems like this way beyond their proportion and use it as a wedge to garner white voters through fear and suspicion. At the end of the day, we all should support each other.
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All I see is more seperation of the country according to racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic interests. Nothing to be proud of here and will only create more division in the future. Don’t see how this will turn out to be a good thing.
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Nothing to be proud of in people of all types and stripes turning out to defend their interests against the soon-to-be minority old guard of rich old white men? I think most voters disagree. They turned out together, I might add, in a show of unity not division. The only reason the old guard might feel separation is because their view is increasingly self-centered, self-righteous and self-isolated.
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Well Kayak, we agree.
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Four years ago that blow-hard of all blow-hards, Rush Limbaugh, declared he would leave this great country if Obama won.
Now Obama gets elected to a second term and……
He`s still here????
Yep, he`s a true Blow-hard alright!
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One of the best things that could happen for the unity of the country would be Rush Limpynuts to move to another country. I don’t smoke and I’m not anti-smoking… but when I see that guy smoking on the job(isn’t it illegal to smoke at work)I want to push that cigar up his nose.
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To be fair to poor Rushing Windbagh, I swore I would move to Canada if GWB was re-elected. I had my paperwork filled out. But I didn’t go.
But he can go. I hope he’s not applying as a bilingual, because he’s barely monolingual.
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I think that it was more than “rich old white men” that did not vote for Obama. Keep the “politically correct” racism coming, Kayak. I may be “white”, but am certainly not rich or old, and I certainly didn’t vote for someone based on the color of their skin or ethnicity. Sad thing is, you’re probably proud of your comment.
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I’m racist for repeating what exit polls clearly showed? I think not.
BTW I’m white, and all my ancestors are white. Dating all the way back to that time when we were probably all black, of course.
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Why is my post awaiting moderation? Because I said GWB?
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“in” is a filtered word?…SMH!! well that explains a whole lot…LMAO.
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Hee!
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join the club.
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Just out of curiosity, why wasn’t it a “new America” in 2010 when Democrats suffered their worst defeat in 70 years?
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Romney the sore loser blames Obama and the 47%. I guess he doesn’t own a mirror.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/11/15/romney-obama-won-with-gifts-to-certain-voters/1706223/
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It’s undeniable that the 47%, that live off the rest of us, voted for Obamaclaus. The takers just suckered in another 3 and a fraction percent and magicly voted themselves more free stuff. They can look forward to another four years, or until the economy collapses, of free stuff.
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Do you even know who makes up the 47% are, or are you just parroting a catchy phrase that encourages you to not follow up with actual thought?
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What difference does it make? Even if it was just a catchy phrase it’s the type of thing the left lives and breathes. There’s no thought involved in being a democrat. The democrat mantra reminds me of the refrain to a song: lie la lie, lie la lie la la la lie la la la la lie.
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It does make a difference.
It represents a classic careful use of a misleading statistics. People do not hear how carefully you have to state it. So, letsvbreak this down:
46 (not 47)% do not pay federal INCOME taxes. Which is true, but of course, by no means the actual picture.
- 28 of the 46% do pay payroll taxes. We call them the working poor.
By the way, payrolll taxes are regressive, they phase out at a little over $100K.
Put another way:
– the middle 60% of us pay 9.5% of our income as payroll taxes.
– the richest 20% pay only 5.7% of their income in payroll taxes
– the top 1% pay 1.6%
– the lowest 20% pay 8.8% of their income in as payroll taxes.
This is why the Republicans NEVER want to mention payroll taxes.
So, we drop from 46% to 18%.
- Another 10 of the 18% are elderly folks on social security. So we are down to 8%.
- Then we have about 4-5% that are various forms of unemployed (almost half of which are students).
- Then we have another 1 of the 3 percent remaining that are actually quite wealthy but receive most to all of their money via capital gains and/or have significant itemized deductions so they don’t pay federal income tax (this likely included Gov. Romney a few times in the early 2000s).
- Finally, we have people unable to work due to disability or illness.
To further complicate this, many of these 46% did or will pay significant income taxes for significant parts of their lives (elderly on social security, students, many of the working poor, etc.). Plus, the reasons that many of the working poor do not pay federal income taxes are things that Republicans are very supportive of (standard deductions and deductions for kids, the Earned Income Tax credit).
Put another way, the 46% statistic has to be one of the more misleading stats that has ever been floated out there.
But hey, why not keep quoting it, its a CATCHY and MISLEADING and perhaps even insulting to the working poor phrase (many of whom DID vote for Gov Romney).
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How is it that feeding the government an endless glut of money is a higher good? How is it that someone else is entitled to the money that I earned myself? The answer is easy, it isn’t and they aren’t. There is nothing stopping you leftists from sending in all the money to the government you want. Of course you don’t. You’re all about confiscating someone else’s money. You won’t be happy till the country is completely broke which is coming sooner than later.
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Smarty~ “refrain to a song: lie la lie, lie la lie la la la lie la la la la lie.”
That is actually the GOP theme song.
Mitt Rommney- Documented over 900 lies in 30 weeks of campaigning. Paul Ryan, recognized as telling the most lies ever in a single political speech. Voter Fraud, dead people voting, Franken only won because of voter fraud…all lies. Acorn complicit in voter fraud…lie. Tax breaks to wealthy and corporations will create jobs and spur economy…lie, because never has. Undeniable proof of WMD…bald faced lie and the CIA told him so but Bush still said in State of Union address anyway which cost countless lies and a unnecessary war. Obama is a Muslim..lie. Obama wasn’t born here…lie. Obama is responsible for the economic bailouts Bush called for and demanded before Obama even elected…lies. That government regulations is what is holding our corporations back…lies. That Repubs are better with budgets, the economy and shrinking size of government…all lies because they’ve done the complete opposite every time starting with Reagan. Tax breaks to wealthy and corporations will create a trickle down economic effect…lie…it’s a trickle up effect with wealthier getting more and everyone else paying for it.
The GOP has turned into nothing more frankly then a bunch of haters and liars that go completely against our founding fathers ideals and with no redeeming values. Yet there are still fools that aren’t millionaires that think it best represents their core values….it’s like thinking the person who burglarizes your house is really watching out for you…
“For whatever anguish to spirit or body it may cause, I must know the truth”…Patrick Henry
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Typical leftist , have to get your ideas and be told what to say by someone else, and then more lie la lie, lie la lie la la la lie la la la la lie.
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I was at an old couple’s home today, at the wife’s request, to help her with something. The 80 yr old husband came over and said “I’ll tell you what I think of you guys and your GD B—S—”. He didn’t even know who I was or why I was there. It didn’t “make a difference” to him; what he believed was all that mattered. He didn’t have time to look at facts-his mind was made up. His wife barked at him to shut up ad sit down because he was making a fool of himself. So that’s what difference it makes, its the difference between a fool and someone who isn’t.
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He sounds like a pretty discerning old man to me. I like him already.
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So the old man isn’t a fool.
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re the commentary breaking down the composition of the 46%. a large portion (28 of the 46 percentage points which amounts to
61% of the aforementioned group) paid “payroll takes” which as mentioned phased out at the $100k+ mark. these withholdings are for the purpose of retirement income and retirement medical care. in their beginnings they were referred to as Social Security insurance to make the connection that they are a premium paid for a social insurance policy. it is for this reason that a cap was placed on the income subject to withholding so that there was some correlation established relative to the dollars withheld and the benefit recieved. otherwise it was feared that it would be percieved as just another income transfer scheme which BOTH republicans and democrats have been CAREFUL to avoid.
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Actually, various arguments have been advanced for why the cap was put in place, but no obvious answer has been given (see, for example, http://aging.senate.gov/crs/ss9.pdf ). Certainly, some may have agreed with your argument, but it was not a significant part of the discussion.
In any case, are you suggesting that we can wail and worry about the effects of social security and medicare but we can’t talk about the mechanism used to pay for it? Is it somehow not meaningful for people to be contributing to paying for these benefits, even if they may eventually benefit? Since, as I noted in my comment that many of the people in the 46% are only there for some part of their life (and almost everybody will be – not too many of us who are going to avoid being a student and being elderly at some point), does that somehow make it ok to look down on them while they are in the 46%?
Perhaps a different set of numbers would capture it. Here are the average ACTUAL tax rates that people pay (including everything, federal, state, local) broken down by income:
Lowest 20%: 17.4%
Next 20%: 21.2%
Middle 20%: 25.2%
Next 20%: 28.3%
Next 10%: 29.5%
Next 5%: 30.3%
Next 4%: 30.4%
Top 1%: 29.0%
Doesn’t look like there is really any difference at all. Guess those other things tend to balance out.
So, next time you hear someone float the 46% statistic, simply tell them they are ill-informed. The 46% statistic is DESIGNED to mislead. That is its point.
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The money taken in by the government, under the guise of Social Security and Medicare, is spent at the whim of the government representatives after deposit in the general fund. Neither are in any way considered any kind of insurance policy. If they were our representatives past and present would be in prison for insurance fraud.
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I understand the below average that voted for Obama are , you might say, mathematically challenged but 17.4 or 21.2 or 100 percent of nothing is still nothing.
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Ummm … 17.4% of their income. The bottom 20% and the next 20% of wage earners in this country do not have 0 income (if they did, wouldn’t them paying any federal taxes be a moot point). This is not even mathematically challenging, its grade school stuff. Again, 17.4% of their income paid in total taxes including all taxes (local, state and federal). So, clearly NOT nothing. This is the problem, the denizens of the Bubble are so inculcated with the misinformation of the right wing entertainment complex that they simply don’t get even basic facts (its the Math, silly).
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The bottom 47% of households pay no federal income tax.That is “grade school stuff”,where were you?
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Ah … I get it. You are one of the folks who doesn’t understand what that stat means. I am guessing you are under the impression that 46% not paying federal income tax means that 46% do not have income — that’s exactly what they ignorance peddlers are hoping for.
46% of the country does not pay federal income taxes. Which means that they have 0 tax liability. Which does NOT mean they have 0 income.
What sort of people does this include? Well, lets take a hard working family of four where one spouse earns $22K a year ($11 an hour), the other is a stay at home parent (0 income) and they have two qualifying children. Further lets say they have somehow bought a house and have $9K in interest per year. Well, filing jointly they get about $13K a year in standard deductions and can deduct the mortgage interest, and suddenly they have 0 taxable income. So they pay no federal INCOME taxes. Even more interesting, these folks would qualify for the Earned Income Credit which gives credits to low wage earning families (in this case probably $4K so they would get a check for that amount). So, these folks are part of your 46%. I guess you could jump on them about the EIC credit, but this is a program Republicans love.
Similarly, a very wealthy person whose income comes largely from capital gains might have 0 federal income tax liability (think somone like Mitt Romney in those years when he wasn’t getting paid big for his speaking gigs).
So, yes, it is pretty straightforward math. But to repeat, the 46% mostly have income, they simply have 0 federal income tax liability.
Hope this makes sense now. Sorry the conservative entertainment conglomerate has you mixed up.
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Nope, not what I meant at all, They are paying no federal income tax. I don’t know how to make it any more easy to understand than that.
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Got it, “smart”imus. Just quoting a statistic that you think is meaningful but which does not actually connect to the argument you are making (that these people are somehow “takers”, despite all of the evidence to the contrary). I suspect even Ayn Rand would be embarrassed by the people who use that 46% number.
The top 20% of people in this country have 93% of the wealth. Sounds really bad, should they be responsible for 93% (or more) of all taxes paid??
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re:response to comments on origins of social security insurance. i did not consider my response and argument but rather some background info. i also do not consider these contributions unmeaningful-quite the opposite so surprised to see that intonation. a summation of my view would be to point out a lack of funding of non-entitlement functions of government by many.
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