GOP asks “why?” and “where do we go from here?”
November 7, 2012 at 4:52 pm in Grand Forks Herald
Having lost the popular vote in five of the last six presidential elections, Republicans plunged Wednesday into an intense period of self-examination, blame-setting and testy debate over whether their party needs serious change or just some minor tweaks. Continue Reading
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Republicans should have gotten behind the DREAM act back when John McCain was pushing it. Maybe they could get behind it now and try to court some of the conservative Latinos before they become lifelong Democrats. A lot of those Catholics get fired up over family values talk, but they’ll vote for anything that brings them closer to legal status before voting for nebulous “values.”
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Contrary to popular paranoid delusions, only U.S. citizens have the right to vote.
When I said “they’ll” vote for anything that brings “them” closer to legal status, I should have clarified that by saying, “Latino U.S. citizens” will vote for anything that eases persecution of all Latinos, legal or not.
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We already did. We just changed the name of it to Texas, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah, and, um… New Mexico.
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There are many, many things that Republicans should get behind in the coming months. They don’t have much time to re-think what they believe in as another election cycle is coming in Nov. of 2013. Not much time to come up with a new platform, new candidates and then convince the electorate that they should vote GOP. Otherwise they will fade into the political dust of history.
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That wasn’t the problem. The problem was when Independents like me heard the words come out of his mouth, we didn’t believe one word of it. He tried to claim to be a moderate but he put someone like Ryan on the ticket. He tried to claim to be a moderate, but had Rove behind the scenes calling the shots. He tried to claim to be a moderate, but didn’t muzzle Trump. He tried to claim to be a moderate but didn’t say anything about the Murdock comment and continued to support him. I could go on but the list is to extensive.
Republicans need to get over the fact that Roe v Wade isn’t going to get over turned. In this day and age the Republican Party is so far off track from the middle ground it isn’t even funny. The republican party will get my full support once again once they get themselves back on track. I will continue to support moderate republican and democratic candidates locally and write in a candidate for President until one comes along that I can support.
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As for Roe vs Wade….Hmmmmm…..Funny but I seem to remember a young lad named Bush who had the senate and house stacked up on his side…..But I don’t remember the uissue ever actually making any hed way what so ever. I wonder why that is? Could it be that it’s an issue that activates the religous right and makes for contributions, but in reality such a hot potato issue that there would be a tidal wave back lash at anyone who actually changed it? What works on the base doesn’t automatically work with the vast majority of the independants, and this is definately that issue…..
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The GOP is heading for extinction as a national party unless it deals with reality. It can not continue to let it’s far right flank dictate what the party does in the future. I predict that a huge fight is coming in the GOP and it might very well end in two smaller parties. One moderate and the other a tea party fueled group. The problems is how to change policy that seems baked into the GOP brand. How to expand the voter base you have just spent millions of dollars alienating? You can’t just attract latinos by putting a latino in charge, for example. You actually have to change your policies to support what latinos and women are concerned with. This shift, if it occurs, will further drive the extreme right away so the party leadership is between a rock and a hard place. This is a very satisfiying place for the Republican party from a Democratic perspective, but, them’s the breaks. The GOP made their bed, with Rove in charge of strategy, which appears to have failed on a massive scale.
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Must be a of running into walls with the GOP blinders nearly reaching in the middle huh? Because to see all this spending as the Dems is about as blind as you can be. The last administration was asking for another 100 billion about every 6 months so they wouldn’t have to add it into the budget….And it worked because you never even noticed it….If right wing media doesn’t make it an issue…It doesn’t exist. Face it…The idea of a conservative base for the GOP has long past. The GOP hasn’t been actuallly conservative based for a decade or more They spend just as much or more, but it goes to pet projects like making fighter jets and other military equipment that even then Pentagon doesn’t want, but once the palms have been greased……Compared to programs that actually help people in general that get deamonized by the right as being the real problem.
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Brain – get over it.. you lost..
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You did too, you’re just trying to do what you’re told by Obama so you don’t realize it yet.
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More like a philosophy of “Us” compared to a mindset of “Me” which isn’t something the right can ever grasp because the “Me” is the center of the universe
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If the republicans want to become a serious political force again they will have to drop their 4G (God, Gays, Guns, Gynecology) strategy that has successfully persuaded a lot of people to vote for them — even though their votes are against their fiscal interests.
The GOP ideological approach (dubbed “theocratic” by some) will have to change too. Ideology may work for a while, but when contrary data accumulate, even the most “faithful” have to pay attention. Consider some of the GOP issues that have (or will be) shown to be nonsense:
- Being gay is a choice
– Creationism
– Global warming is a leftist conspiracy
– America was founded as a Christian nation
My advice (genuinely well meant) to the GOP:
- Tell the tea party that their radicalism has alienated the majority
– Tell religious zealots to keep out of politics
– Do not ever put a pledge to a plutocrat above a pledge to defend the COTUS
– Embrace science
– Focus on fiscal policies that are evidence-based.
My advice to the loonies on the far left? Grow up — or you may let the status quo GOP prove me wrong!
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Like I said a long time ago…Losing might be the only hope for the GOP. If the GOP wants to reamin the GOP it needs to either get the severe right so called “Base” to get on board to move to the center with a conservative base, or move on without them. What are they going to do? Start their own party? If they thought this was a big disappointment just imagine the disappointment when nobody but themselves are there to support. This little fox army might be a force, but in reality by themselves they really let the crazy fly……They just can’t help it. And that’s what the rest of America sees as way too extreme
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GOP’ major flaw is their fraudulent lies about being a party who supports smaller government and limited government interference. If they really stood behind those principles, I would be a diehard republican.
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Agree 100%
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Thanks ron for making my case!
People who “believe” in creationism are either supremely ignorant of the massive evidence for evolution — or are so delusional that they can disregard it.
Evidence and logic — not ideology — is needed if we are to find solutions for our problems.
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How about respecting women, minorities and people with non Christian religions. How about not discriminating against gay and lesbians. How about letting women control their own bodies. How about working for the middle class and working folks rather than the wealthy. How about not letting your party by run totally by aging white men. Of course non of this will happen because that’s not the GOP agenda. I don’t think the GOP has that much change left in it. Voters can get all of this diversity by voting Democratic.
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There has been a plethora of stories about why & what needs to be done. From Fox to MSNBC to CNN they all have one common theme: if the GOP does not become more inclusive & less anglocentric they will continue to lose nationally.
Ralph Reed, hardly a liberal sympathizer was plain: the GOP must figure out a way to capture 40% of the Hispanic vote. If they do not they cannot win nationally.
As I said many times during the campaign it is not ideology, it is math.
One Fox commentator quoted an article that said it best. In the past the party that captured the majority of the white male vote won. Now, because of demographic changes, if a party relies solely on white males, they are guaranteed to lose.
Again: not ideology – math.
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All right ron — I’ll bite — tell me about the “factual science.”
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The GOP has an enormous organizational problem: Rush Limbaugh and Fox News are extremely lucrative. Their financial success will guarantee their continued leadership of the GOP. These 2 speak and lead the GOP. These 2 were formed to provide entertainment, not public policy. John Stewart or Bill Maher do not lead the Democratic Party. They are entertainment! Until the GOP divorces itself from the 2 entertainment programs they will never become competitive for the presidency. Those entertainers will never be successful forming a successful political platform. Currently they are the determining influences on the national GOP platform. Until real political leaders take control or the GOP platform and politics, only failure lies ahead.
The 2 will continue to thrive because of the money they generate. The GOP cannot divorce themselves from such powerful political forces without harmful consequences. In essence the GOP has become “boxed in” by big money. Rush Limbaugh and Rupert Murdock cannot stop what is in place without huge financial losses. They must continue to lead the GOP even if they don’t want to. How horribly ironic. This push and pull of these monied interests may permanently disable the GOP for national office. And so it goes…..
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Interesting analysis. You’re absolutely right about the money. Can you even imagine Fox News changing it’s mojo and sounding reasonable. They would lose all of their audience. There’s an old aphorism that covers this in a nutshell, but I can’t think of it now–senior moment. “Live by the sword and die by the sword”? No, that’s not it. Anyway, you are correct about the leadership of the party being Murdock and Rush. What a mess they have made of what used to be a major force of a politcial party.
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I agree with realist that what you say about the money is true. Here is an in intended consequence of that dependence: the Super PAC donors are ANGRY.
Carl Rove will be demoted. These donors have publically said they bought an election & they did not get what they paid for. They did not get a President, and they LOST seats in the Senate and the House.
As I have said multiple times before, I totally disagree with the SCOTUS that money = political speech. I think that decision is the Dred Scott of our generation.
Be that as it may, it is the law of the land. One unintended consequence of this election cycle will be the influence of angry donors. Look for a round of musical chairs at the head table.
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Maybe the effect will be to discourage big money from flooding into elections since it didn’t do any good this time. Had it worked by electing Romney, maybe next time it would have been worse. This way, perhaps billionaires will be less likely to spend a hundred million for nothing. One can hope.
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It really wasn’t that the big money didn’t work. It was the goal that was faulty. The neocons with Rove directing the way worked hard at finding the candidates in all sectors that they could easily control. In 2010 there were a lot of people who didn’t vote because something or other disappointed them and as a result they found several wack-a-doodles got elected and really worked har to be a do nothing congress. Their goal this time around was to complete the process so they once again backed people who really had no business getting elected.
On the presidential race had they ran Jon Huntsman with all that money in there….I think they would have taken it. So the money will come back to them, but only after there’s a more realistic plan than to try to make it a one party system. They have to keep the neocons at bay and find some actual candidates who aren’t whack jobs. Because as we’ve seen time and again…..the Whackos just can’t help themselves from eventually letting their whacky ideas slip out in public. Their like boiling tea pots that eve4ntually needs to realease that steam before they explode
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Tundra, you’re right about the money potentially working if they had good candidates, but as it was, Rove’s superpac dollars only helped to elect one person at the national level: a congressman who they supported won his race by a few points in Utah or was it Nevada. In any case, the money really didn’t do anything for all those billionaires this year. Rove’s pac had a 1% success rate. He is persona non grata much to my delight since the negativity he introduced back in 2000 was the impetus for much of this abuse.
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Can you recall the Republican gentleman who was quoted saying, “Get the government out of my Medicare!” A great deal of the support for the GOP comes from the belief that Dems are comprised of “takers” (Bill O’Reilly on election night). The Dems want “stuff”. Hence Romney’s “47%”. We all “take” some things. Federal, state and local tax dollars are involved in the following: clean water from local water treatment plant, sewer/waste disposal, electrical power, telephone/cable services, highways/streets/sidewalks/bike paths, parks, recreation/fitness facilities, libraries, traffic/street lights, local/state police/FBI/, traffic safety, food safety, national child health/welfare, security/intelligence, military/national defense, airline security/safety, public transportation, etc., etc. Do you “take” or use any of these things?
Perhaps the most popular complaint is fear of the “free-loaders” on welfare and food stamps. Welfare was tightened up and no one on welfare or food stamps wants to need those services. Today, it is almost impossible to live on welfare/food stamps.
The biggest “takers”, by far (compare a elephant to a flea), are on wall street and in corporate board rooms. Those who fear the freeloaders need to be very afraid of the big bankers and CEO’s. Until the GOP stops perpetrating this lie, they will continue to fail. Thanks to the internet, America is waking up! The GOP is quite able to educate their members about the truth regarding welfare and other social programs. Their failure to do so will perpetuate their failures. And so it goes…..
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You may be right about the biggest takers being corp. interests,the idea that conservitaves support wall street is a myth. Those ideas are supported not by true conservatives, but by democrats. True conservitaves beleive that there is no such thing as to big to fail (ie GM, Chrysler, Solyndra, Bank of America, Merryll Lynch.) Why should those businesses be treated any different than a small struggling family owned business that employes 2 or 3 people?
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The Wall Street firms don’t belong on the same list since they don’t produce anything, and there a huge wage gap between them and those working plants….You typical “Apples and oranges” sets.
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???? Dont produce anything? Please explain. Since when is giving loans and making investments not doing anything?
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P. S. simply asking the question to understand your thought.
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I didn’t say they didn’t “Do Anything” They move finaiance around and collect good fees for it. They also find ways to drive the price of food and fuel up through speculation that makes them more riches while we suffer the consequences. Meanwhile they haven’t “produced anything tangible to sell that would contribute to the GDP.
The auto industry as well as similar industries that produce items to sell do add to the GDP. So those industries are producers. As producers they have many other industries that make up a link in the production process. So when a big industry like auto fails then there’s a huge ripple effect all over the country. One that might make it impossible to pick up the pieces. Wall Street would also have a ripple effect, but since they don’t produce anything they can remain up and running to trade and build back up.
So even both are like an octopus with far reaching tenticals the producers aren’t necessarily in the same light as “Too big to fail.” Industry becomes big as a result of successful production and distribution. As it does it basically helps to create jobs all over the country. And while mega banks play a part in loans and investments they’re just another entity that profits from the success.
So I don’t think industry can have a “Too big to fail” status because natural growth in par for the course. Compared to finance that concentrates all the power into a few mega banks until they have only a few competitors which is done by design and really not good for any of us
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Corporate Welfare = Too Big To Fail. What a horrid concept in a capitalist system.
Everyone wants the benefits of capitalism without the inherent pain. There is absolutely no doubt that it was capitalism that caused the great depression. It was also capitalism that caused this present meltdown.
In both cases hundreds of thousands of people lost their jobs and their homes and their American dream.
Capitalism is not warm and fuzzy. It does not make you feel good about your fellow man. It is a contact sport of the most base kind. It is warfare without bullets.
As Winston Churchill was fond of saying: capitalism is the worst possible economic system; except for all the rest.
Capitalism works only when organizations are allowed to die so that other, stronger organizations are allowed to take their place. Capitalism lite does not work in a large multicultural country like the US – that is called socialism.
Socialism is not a bankrupt system. It simply only works between very narrow parameters: small country that is homogenous in makeup and belief. Socialism works in Sweden because it is small and everyone looks the same, talks the same, and believes the same.
It does not work in the Unites States, or France, or Germany, or the UK because we are all large, multicultural, multiethnic societies.
We have to let corporation fail (even though it causes unconscionable amounts of personal pain) because that is how our system works.
In China when a CEO runs his company into the ground or commits some great social ill (massive chemical spills, widespread abuse, etc) they take him out and shoot him.
There is nothing in capitalist doctrine that prevents that from happening here. Tends to keep the Boardroom honest.
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On the other hand there’s already a lot of corporate welfare that is just that and not a loan. I think it sickens most of us to know that something like the oil industry that’s making money hand over fist through price gouging (Granted a lot of that has to do with Wall Street speculators) Is geting taxpayers money in grants that are supposedly be assisting them in finding newer and cheaper fuel sources…..Right…There’s a huge amount of incentive to find cheaper sources to lesson the liquid gold. Basically corporate welfare is just fine for some companies, but not for others. Until they cut it off across the board the right has litle to complain about.
One thing that really burned me up was when I heard how some of the banks that were bailed out from taxpayers money were then able to collect even more through some tax scheme written into the system where because they fell far below their projected income that they were able to get billions back from taxes. They screwed the pooch, we bailed them out, and then they were able to still take more for their bad behavior…….What the hell kind of logic is that?
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Slave owners didn’t like the new reality either….
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Creationism accepts the fact that species evolved after (the myth) that they were created by god. It does not rule out scientific findings that creatures have changed and evolved. Hey, it is a start and even something any. Scientifically educated bible thumper will accept.
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Ah — so species were created by god AND evolved?
I guess having it both ways would appeal to Romney supporters!
Sorry ron — this is neither science or religion — it’s an oxymoron.
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I have been listening to Republican radio every day since the election. It is clear that the Republican Party is done. Not because their ideas are bad, or non-existent, but because so many of their ilk are leaving for Canada and Australia. The Republican minority will be getting even smaller as time goes on.
Well … I guess they could just be lying sore losers … If so, they will probably always vote Republican.
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LOL….If they think America is too left for them….How long will they last in Canada?
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I guess they’ll be going there for the universal healthcare.
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I literally laughed out loud. Our “moderate” is Canada and Australia’s extreme right.
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Oh, please! Just because you don’t agree with something, suddenly it’s the end of the world. Don’t take yourself so seriously and believe everything you think.
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Jake: you do realize everyone except Rush & O’Reilly have moved on from the culture of dependency argument don’t you? It was a conservative think tank that debunked the argument. Just like there were not enough angry white guys left to elect Romney, there were not enough people of color, liberals, & welfare babies to elect the Big O.
Romney got 75% of the white male vote. That means 25% refused to drink the Kool Aid. The majority of women, who we assume are sleeping with the 75% went for Obama.
The simple fact is the average Obama voter is the guy or gal standing next to you in line at Hugo’s or on the job. The average Obama voter has some college, is lower to middle middle class, married or in a relationship & has kids. They are also employed & up to date on their taxes.
Romney’s magic 47% turned out in very low numbers this year. According to the report, they decidedly were not a factor in the election.
I know you are in love with the emotional, victim mentality of your argument; but like most victim stories, it simply does not hold water.
The Big O was elected by a coalition of center & center left voters. Just like every President in the last 150 years.
There simply are not enough votes on either fringe to win.
Not ideology. Math
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Obama got 95% of the black vote, so I guess that means only 5% didn’t drink the kool aid? The fact is that the people on the dole didn’t vote for Mitt, they voted for Obama. Free health care, free phones, free food…free stuff. As for victims, that is the whole Democrat playbook. They told all their dependents that they are victims. It isn’t YOUR fault that you dropped out of school, smoke dope, and watch TV all day. Don’t worry we will take care of you. I heard it for the last 4 years. Blame others, deflect valid criticism, cover up, suborn the press, blame Bush, take no responsibility, offer no plan, demand no sacrifice, divide people along ethnic/racial lines and pit them against each other-that is the New America under Obama. It is clear as day to those who didn’t drink the kool aid and buy into the propaganda. But remember even liberals are claiming that the old America is dead and a new one is arising. They are rejoicing at the triumph of socialism. Just as long as THEY get to run the show and don’t have to live in the dystopian neighborhoods they are creating. It’s a bit like busing back in the day. They supported it, but their children went to all white private schools. Yet even blacks still voted for them and believed the hype. With the dumbed down public schools today it is no wonder that they don’t notice what’s going on.
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Your shtick sounds good till you look at the details. 95% of blacks voted for Obama. Hardly surprising since he is the first President to ever look like them. 75% of white guys voted for Romney; a coincidence?
Immediately after pointing out this fact you went on your Fox News free stuff tirade. Am I to understand you think the majority of black voters are on welfare?
Just to bring you up to speed, the average welfare recipient is white. No need to take my word for it, the census bureau as well as agriculture & Health & Human services all break it down by race, age, & location for you. No legwork involved.
Secondly, divide & conquer is a time honored GOP strategy. GWB used it very effectively. The reason it did not work this time is Rove, et al discounted the demographic changes Ralph Reed was talking about above. There are simply not enough angry white guys left in the world to dictate an election.
That is the take home message from this election. Not lower class white women wanting a government check.
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Fyi just a sec, I never said I personally believed in creationism. I believe in evolution and would never try to argue it against a bible thumper. My energy is better spent educating them on the fact that species have changed and evolved over time. You see getting them to at least admit they are half wrong is a start. There actually is an highly educated segment of the scientific comunity that cannot deny species are evolving but still believe god created the earth.
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Unfortunately Ron there’s a creature that’s thrown a wrench into the evolution theory because it has refused to evolve for some time now….The Severe Right Wingous GOPus has hung on to it’s current state and has refused to evolve in the slightest no matter how obvious it becomes that it should…..Poor old critters…I guess they’ll be a dying species…..
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I love my “free stuff” like social security. Yep I pay out of my paycheck every 2 weeks into this program. Or medicare that I pay into every other week. Or unemployment insurance. All this “free stuff” and what do I pay for it oh yeah taxes. But if I paid for it how is it free?
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run, most people get back far more then they paid into social security. If you added up your contributions and paid yourself interest on the money it would be used up within several years of your retirement. Who then pays the rest? Those who work now. The cycle has been going on for some time. How does it work? Borrowing. How long will the Chinese buy bonds to pay for your retirement check when we begin to default? How long can we sustain trillion dollar deficits? Tax the rich you say? That won’t work even if we take all that they have, we still fall short. They always say the grandkids will pay, well you may end up paying as the deficits skyrocket. We have built a house of cards and when we can no longer service the debt that check will stop coming, if it doesn’t happen before. But when you tell people that they shut their eyes and cover their ears and vote Democrat. The clock is ticking.
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That was true till about 10 years ago Jake. Now, because we are all having to work as Walmart greeters to make ends meet when we are supposed to be out smoking pot on the golf course (baby boomers most decidedly are not their parents generation of retirees) we actually pay in more than we get back.
You are correct about social security being the world’s largest Ponzi scheme. It was designed to prevent grandma from starving to death in her Dotage. It was never designed or funded to be a sole source of income for 20-30 years.
.
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President Obama, with the aid of the media, did a great job of real of pointing the finger at Bush, then saying nothing about a plan for the economy (other than hiring 100,000 teachers). The exit polls showed 50% blamed Bush still for economy. I believe Obama’s last press conference was after Eken in MO made his comments. That lasted for two weeks. Dems marketing is brilliant. 50% plus of people overlooked the high unemployment, high gas, flat incomes. Things like Obamacare were not on the table due to Romneycare.
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Jake, wow! First of all this is 2012 and it is african american now. 2nd of all god have mercy on your soul for that racist rant.
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Ah, so not voting for Obama or disagreeing with him is now racism? That is a sure sign that I won the argument and you have no coherent response. I reject your facile attempt to silence those you disagree with.
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Why would we need a second screw up party like the democrats?
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No not voting for obama is not racist. It is racist when you single out one ethnic group and go on to state how they love “free stuff” than you further comment that even the “racist name” bought in. That is what racist. Like I said above once you used an out dated and bigatory name for an ethnic group you lost any chance of a legitamite argument.
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It’s clear that the GOP has gone too far to the right for many voters. Anti- gay and lesbian, anti women, anti immigrant, anti other religions, and anti the middle class and working poor was not a good ticket for the GOP.
Thier moves to prevent people from voting turned people off. The GOP had a very negative agenda and one of exclusion of many people. Also they made it obvious that thier real constituancy was wealthy white folks and big business. The average voter couldn’t relate to that agenda.
I don’t think there is much hope for the GOP. They really believe in all of the above and it’s the platform of the party. You don’t just change window dressing to appear to change. You have to show change by words and deeds. I don’t think the GOP will make this transition easy.
If they do they begin to look like DFLers. People might as well just vote for the DFL because they are inclusive and for the middle class. It’s gonna be hard for the GOP to change it’s ways. I predict a DFL sweep in the 2014 mid-term elections.
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The Dems will lose seats in 2014. You always do in midterm elections. If they don’t I will start looking for the moon to turn blood red & the stars to fall from the sky
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Like an alcoholic having to hit rock bottom, the GOP will have to implode a little more before the Phoenix can rise.
My question is it too late? Obama is going to get between 1-3 Supreme Court nominees. Any chance of Roe v Wade being overturned just got moved back 25 years. Not to mention the other highlights of their social agenda.
In their desire to win the battle they may have come close to losing the culture war.
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Obama’s popularity numbers will be in single digits inside of two years.
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