Measure 5 spending tops $1 million
November 1, 2012 at 8:02 am in Grand Forks Herald
The Humane Society of the United States and its legislative fund have contributed more than $675,000 to the campaign supporting passage of Measure 5 on the North Dakota general election ballot.
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I think the amount of money spent trying to pass Measure 5 would have saved far more animals than will the passage of the measure itself. I have a deep mistrust of this measure. There is an agenda that goes beyond what the measure states.
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You’re taking the argument to a leap into the ozone. Who is voting for “Animal Abuse?” If people are questioning the bill it is because it’s not passing the smell test. Not because they think abusing animals isn’t something that should be adressed. In your mind it a simple black and white issue, but not so in other peoples minds. That’s what’s great about democracy, we don’t have to settle what’s handed to us…We can send it back to be reworked until it passes the smell test.
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So true Pete. If we question the ballot initiative some people will accuse us of not caring about animals. This is how the HSUS is playing with the minds of the voters.
Here’s a good link: http://humanewatch.org/
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I should have said I drove a Mack. Calling me Pete just sounds weird…At least Mack is a more general term….So if you don’t want to call me Tundra…Switch to Mack…Just sounds better
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I decided on t-beast. It was in the running with t-boy and t-bone so don’t fuss.
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I grew up on a farm. We had good farm dogs and we had bad farm dogs. I have had to shoot dogs for killing chickens, biting a neighbor who came in the yard, started running and wouldn’t stay on the farm, etc…. Does this law make it a class C felony for me to kill that dog myself, or do I have to take it to a vet to be put down?
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My brother-in-law had to shoot the neighbor’s dog on the farm. The owner wouldn’t leash the dog. It didn’t stay at home. It wandered over to their home to mess with their dog all the time. It growled agressively at their kids to the point where they couldn’t go outside. One day they came home from town and the dog wouldn’t let them out of their vehicle. That was the deciding factor. The dog was shot. The owner and the sheriff were of no help at all while this went on for months. Afterwards the owner was in uproar over what happened. If he cared so much for his pet why didn’t he take better care of it? Why was that dog such a menace?
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in minnesota you have the right to shoot dogs running in the wild
Hot debate. What do you think?
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What are you talking about? You do not have the right to shoot dogs running wild in MN. You do have a right to protect your property and people against any animal, just like in ND. This will not change when measure 5 passes, so take it easy.
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And “I was protecting my property/children” is exactly what I will tell the officer after I shoot your dog on my property. Keep YOUR dog on YOUR property.
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Under the measure shooting to kill the dog would be legal. You would not have to take it to the vet.
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One exclusion to the law reads as follows.
“Examination, testing, individual treatment, operation, or euthanasia performed by or under the supervision of a licensed veterinarian.”
Glen, please explain to me how I can legally euthanize my own cat, dog, or horse without taking it to a vet?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I have often had to put down a dog, cat, or horse by shooting them. It was always the kindest thing to the animal to do. Waiting for a vet would have prolonged agony. Misguided efforts by people who do not consider the consequences of their actions prohibitting what is actually best could cause even greater suffering. The federal law banning the slaughter of horses in the U.S. is a perfect example of animal rights groups causing more suffering. Now horses are still slaughtered, but they are shipped much farther to out of country slaughter plants. What was intended for good creates worse conditions.
A Class B misdemeanor is punishable by up to a $2000 fine and 60 days in jail. If animal cruelty laws were enforced and the judges issued the maximum sentences, there would be VERY few cases of extreme abuse. As it is, there are VERY few cases anyway.
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First of all, while the act explicitly prohibits many forms of cruelty, it does not explicitly prohibit shooting.
Second, under exclusions, is the clause:
e. Any lawful activity undertaken to protect a person’s life or property from a serious threat caused by a dog, cat, or horse
It seems that killing chickens is a clear case of a serious threat to property, and you would be within the law for protecting them.
As for shooting a dog that bit your neighbor… I think the exclusion would apply to a shooting pitbull in the act, since that could be a serious threat to life, but I don’t think it would protect someone who shot a terrier. Or someone who shot any dog after the fact.
As for shooting a dog just because it ran away and you couldn’t control it… Well, that would probably be considered cruel, and illegal, under the act as written.
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That’s the problem…. Nobody knows
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I would also point out that the Humane Society of Fargo Moorhead is not supporting Measure 5. They also point out that they are not affiliated with the Humane Society of the United States, which is the source of most of the money in support of Measure 5. http://www.humanesocietyfargomoorhead.org/north-dakotans-for-responsible-animal-care-legislative-solution/
Our citizens would do well to learn what our local Humane organizations think rather than to listen to advertising from an extraordinarily wealthy national organization which does not actually spend much money at all on rescuing animals.
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Correct. The Humane Society of the United States, based out of Washington DC, is pumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into passing measure 5. Throughout history, the HSUS has consistently be an anti-hunting, anti-zoo, and anti-ranching organization. The very fact that they are pumping this much money into this measure gives me an uneasy feeling.
Less than 1% of their budget is spent on helping animals in shelters. They are almost exclusively a political action organization.
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Yes, They are a high dollar organization that does little to help abandoned or mistreated pets. They are not what there name implies. Support your local shelters. I also wonder why they are pumping such a large amount of money in support of this measure.
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From the Grand Forks humane society, The Circle Of Friends Humane Society, website:
“Please read the full text of Measure 5. After reading the text, you will see how a YES vote in November would advance the protection of animals in the state of North Dakota.
The authors of this measure are North Dakotans to Stop Animal Cruelty. This is a group of North Dakota citizens who want to reflect the values of North Dakotans by ensuring that a Class C felony penalty will be in place for the most extreme cases of animal abuse.” gfpets . com
Hot debate. What do you think?
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My concern, Kyle, would be in the verbage in Section 2, article c, where the exclusions to the law are outlined. Below is how the Measure reads,
2.
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For some reason all my comment did not appear when I submitted it above. One exclusion to the law reads as follows.
“Examination, testing, individual treatment, operation, or euthanasia performed by or under the supervision of a licensed veterinarian.”
Kyle, please explain to me how I can legally euthanize my own cat, dog, or horse without taking it to a vet?
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If you are doing it maliciously, you aren’t covered. The exemptions are really not needed.
“Any individual who maliciously and intentionally burns, poisons, crushes, suffocates, impales, drowns, blinds, skins, beats to death, drags to death, exsanguinates, disembowels, or dismembers any living dog, cat, or horse is guilty of a class C felony.”
The exemptions are just there to calm the “ya but … but … but…” crowd. However, they appear to have raised the suspicions of the tin-hat crowd. I wonder if you are against murder laws because soldiers could be prosecuted for defending our country? It seems that you have reduced the measure to the ridiculous, just to be argumentative. Are you going to euthanize your pet maliciously by crushing, blinding, and eviscerating it? Then you should be guilty of a felony.
This law does not outlaw common sense in ND.
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Exactly how many cases of “extreme abuse” have there been? What have the penalties been? Were they the maximum for a Class B or Class A misdemeanor?
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Sorry Kyle, but common sense ain’t so common anymore. I would prefer a law written and approved by our own state legislators. I agree with the spirit of this measure, but I would rather see it addressed in this years legislative session. I’m voting no on Measure 5.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Slightly off-topic but, why downvote someone reporting facts?
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I live in Minnesota so measure 5 doesn’t affect me but I have been listening to talk about it from both sides and to me whether its measure 5 or someone running for office anyone found to be running an ad that lies should face monetary fines how can anything that protects your pets be bad
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“How can anything that protects you pets be bad?” So if my dog gets hit by a car and is suffering, am I mandated under the law to spend hundreds, or thousands, of dollars on vet bills or risk becoming a felon by shooting it? What about if my dog bites one of my grandchildren? Do I risk becoming a felon if I shoot him? When one of my horses gets too old and is certain to start suffering, can I end its life with the price of a single bullet, or must I pay the going rate for a vet to come and put it down? There are far too many unknowns with this measure.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“Any individual who maliciously and intentionally burns, poisons, crushes, suffocates, impales, drowns,
blinds, skins, beats to death, drags to death, exsanguinates, disembowels, or dismembers any living
dog, cat, or horse is guilty of a class C felony.”
Doesn’t say anything in there about shooting.
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So the family cat and dog is safe? What about those poor little hamsters? And I have no doubts some whack job is already coming up with a 14th act of aggression.
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MALICIOUSLY is the key word here. Someone who chooses to end the suffering of a loved and cared-for pet could hardly be considered to be acting maliciously.
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If a farmer has 30 farm cats and discovers a new batch of kittens and kill them (shoots them, knocks them in the head, drowns them, etc.), is that a felony?
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Do you support allowing a farmer to drown 30 kittens? Keep in mind, it takes several minutes to die by drowning…several terrible, violent, minutes.
If so, you do a great job of representing the mentality of those few who oppose measure 5 because it is too restrictive.
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He said the farmer had 30 cats and a batch of kittens. He was going to drown the kittens not the 30 cats.
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Do you, or does he, support allowing a farmer to drown kittens? Keep in mind, it takes several minutes to die by drowning…several terrible, violent, minutes.
If so, you do a great job of representing the mentality of those few who oppose measure 5 because it is too restrictive.
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How about shooting the kittens then? Or knocking them on the head real fast? Is that a felony?
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If your dog comes over to my property and craps on my yard and then I kick your dog. Is that a felony?
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From the Grand Forks humane society, The Circle Of Friends Humane Society, website:
“Please read the full text of Measure 5. After reading the text, you will see how a YES vote in November would advance the protection of animals in the state of North Dakota.
The authors of this measure are North Dakotans to Stop Animal Cruelty. This is a group of North Dakota citizens who want to reflect the values of North Dakotans by ensuring that a Class C felony penalty will be in place for the most extreme cases of animal abuse.” gfpets . com
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“Any individual who maliciously and intentionally burns, poisons, crushes, suffocates, impales, drowns,
blinds, skins, beats to death, drags to death, exsanguinates, disembowels, or dismembers any living
dog, cat, or horse is guilty of a class C felony.”
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So how many times can I kick your dog before it’s a felony?
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The law says nothing about kicking a dog. Only beating a dog to death.
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1,000,000 reasons to vote no.
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And yet you’ve yet to post one.
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Within a certain period of time during the year you can shoot a dog in mn if and only if he is caught in the act of harrasing and chasing wild game. It is illegal and could be a felony in mn to shoot a dog out of cold blood just because he is walking on your propery.
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I don’t know what there is to dislike about a fact.
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Directly from the mn hunting regulations “between january 1st through july 14 any dog observed harassing, chasing, wounding or killing big game may be shot by anyperson. A law enforcement agent may shoot a dog anytime throughout the year.” That is the law in mn and I do not agree with anyone being able to kill my dog. But it is also a felony to abuse animals in the worst ways possible in mn.
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That is where the legislature has to get involved and protect all domestic animals appropriatly. The proposed admendment does not make it the end of all animal rights legislation but sets up a bare minimum of animal protection in north dakota. There is nothing to fear unless you plan on skinning the neighbors cat.
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How do you feel about people who allow their cats to run loose? Cats kill birds and baby rabbits. I feel these people are accessories to homicide and should be subject to prosecution.
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I’m glad to see that the most vocal opponents of this measure are just internet trolls, and not really interested in animals, politics, the will of the people, or the reputation of our state.
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name caller
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It is inhumane to keep a cat locked up inside your house. They want to run hunt and have friends. Any smart pet owner would allow their cat acess to the outdoors.
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Indoor cats live much longer than cats that roam neighborhoods. It’s hard to leash a cat unless you are there to watch them. They climb trees and can easily hang themselves. They get hit by cars as well. They also get into things that can harm them. Unless you cat is very well trained and doesn’t wander off I wouldn’t recommend just opening the door and letting them out. And … they are predators. They kill birds and baby rabbits.
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I love animals but I can’t help but think about the many cultures that approach these animals as just another source of protein. Just because some of us don’t hold the same view, mostly because we are fortunate financially, doesn’t make them wrong. If/when hyperinflation and deep depression hit, horse meat, dog or even cat meat may be one’s only affordable or no cost source of protein. I know many are vegetarian or vegan, but many, many more are not and will want some source of meat protein. Why is the cow different from the horse, the deer different from the dog, the rabbit different than the cat? It’s all a matter of perspective. I do disagree with abuse and the willful mistreatment of any animal, but I don’t support measure 5.
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Are you serious? Have you even read the measure?
There is nothing prohibiting any person from eating a cat, dog, or a horse.
If you are worried about the Jewish or Muslim, or other religious requirements regarding slaughter, fear not. The law only prohibits malicious exsanguination.
So bon appetit, and vote yes on measure #5 with good conscious.
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So we can shoot a dog, cat, or horse if we want to ‘eat it’? That’s another excuse we can use. Thanks!
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You are welcome. “Malicious” is the key. Maybe you could burn, poison, crush, impale, drown, or beat that into your skull so you could post something relevant next time.
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Go ahead and vote no if you choose to. You will be one of 2 states where it is not a felony to skin, disembowel, dismember, burn, or drag to death a dog cat or horse. It will be interesting to see how the nation views north dakota if this measure fails.
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You can dislike a fact but you will not be able to outrun the backlash of voting this measure down.
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Quite honestly I think the rest of the country could give a rip. They are more worried about a job and gas prices, food prices etc et al. This is on the bottom of ‘I need to worry about’ list.
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All you Yes voters. Do you really think anything will change with this law? The farmers will keep doing what they have been doing for years with unwanted animals. Law or not. The only vet needed to get rid of unwanted animals will be the Vets of Smith and Wesson, Inc. Like it or not.
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Brnnsrth you just a troll.
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But ask yourself why are there only 2 states where severe animal cruelty cannot be punished as a felony?
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A few years ago, I watched a show on the Discovery Channel in fascination where an emergency veterinarian was treating an opossum that had been apparently hit by a car and then brutalized by some children and was still alive.
What was apparent to a former farm/ranch kid, was that this poor animal was once again being tortured by well meaning idiotic people searching for a way to do the right thing. The humane thing would have been to put a bullet in the animals head as quickly as possible. What they did was to prolong the animals suffering over night. The opossum did die in the morning of its injuries.
These are the people supporting Measure 5.
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It looks like this measure is losing bad. Opponents say it doesn’t go far enough, and should be handled by the legislators instead of us stupid citizens.
Ok, well. let’s now watch the Do-Nothing Republican controlled ND Government do NOTHING about this.
Congrats to the fear mongers.
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My no vote was simple.. Does this type of crime fit a Class A Misdemeanor? Yes absolutely. Does it fit a Class C Felony? In my humble opinion – No.
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