ND senator calls out Catholic bishop for letter urging churchgoers to vote for candidates who represent Catholic values
October 24, 2012 at 1:00 am in Grand Forks Herald
North Dakota Sen. Tim Mathern is taking the state’s top Catholic official to task over a letter sent to priests statewide that Mathern says crosses the line into partisan political speech. Continue Reading
Once again, I’ll mention that the good news is that most Catholics ignore the political activism of those bitter old virgins. See: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/catholic-voters-reject-political-influence-of-bishops-173726901.html
I hope churches will increase their efforts to endorse candidates. Then, they may even convince the IRS to stop pandering and yank their tax exempt status. Given the size of the organized religion industry in the USA, the resulting revenue might fix the deficit!
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Justasec, I agree that the IRS needs to enforce the prohibition on political activities imposed on public charities. Just a minor clarification, not all non-profits are public charities and the prohibition applies to public charities not non-profits in general. The penalty is the loss of public charity status which is what makes donations tax deductible; the law is intended to prevent tax deductible donations from being used to support political activities. One other point, the IRS is within the Treasury Department which is itself part of the Executive Branch. The top of the executive branch is President Obama and I too wish he would take a firmer stand on this issue; note I don’t think Romney would be any firmer. Obtaining public charity status confers significant benefits to the organization and it is reasonable that in exchange from those benefits public charities not engage in political activities.
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Ask the US Council of Catholic Bishops who spend about $27 million a year on Washington lobbyists, and have been essentially acting as an anti-Obama PAC.
Note: Those dollars do not include the millions spent on campaigns to stop GLBT folks from obtaining their civil rights.
I wonder how many typical Catholic church goers realize where their donations go?
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That doesn’t answer my question. What this seems to be is analogous to the Fargo city council passing laws applying to Grand Forks.
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Effective July 18, as approved by Pope Benedict XVI, the Most Rev. David Kagan, bishop of the Catholic Diocese of Bismarck, has been named apostolic administrator of the Diocese of Fargo. During this interim time, Bishop Kagan has been entrusted with the authority of the diocesan bishop to teach, sanctify and lead Catholics residing within Eastern North Dakota.
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Ah that explains it. Thanks for the info.
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I always wonder why my Catholic bishops put all their effort into the lives of the unborn, but virtually none to help these people once they are born. Neither party are “pro” abortion. However, one believes all people have differing beliefs so they’re pro choice. Ironically, the party that’s very anti choice when it comes to abortion is the same party that recently got us into a war that killed tens of thousands of innocents (and continues to constantly talk the tough talk like they’re going to take on the world) on fake information and do all they can to not help the poor, disabled, and others in need because it might affect their pocket book. They tend to find the extreme or the few that take advantage of American generosity and twist it to make is sound like ALL people who need help are like that. All because some wealthy far righters pretend that anything that helps people is socialism and will destroy America. And just as ironic, the other party that’s pro choice is the very party that once people are born does all it can to try to provide them with the food, healthcare, and shelter they need. And unfortunately, in doing so will often go to far in helping these people to the point of letting them take advantage of the general public and to not realize they need to be more involved in taking responsibility for their own lives and families. This party also has a far left group that think the government should control everything and that everything has to be super fair. Even though life isn’t fair and we ALL need to understand that and to also understand that you need to work hard in all aspects of your life if you truly want a better life. While I’ve always tended to vote more on the side of the party that worries more about having a child born than caring about them once they are born, for the life of me I can not understand why these Bishops think that life before conception is more important than life after birth. As Christians, they of all people should understand each side has strengths and each side has weaknesses. Individually both have flaws. But to think the majority of us Catholics are as narrow minded as them and to then preach that we must vote this way is why so many of us Catholics no longer attend our churches on a regular basis. It’s not that we’ve lost our faith. We’ve just lost our faith in them.
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Tere is a library of books written on this, and there’s no way I can answer sufficiently. Suffice it to say that from Constantine on, the Catholic Church was all about political power and money, and that the spiritual well-being of believers was not a consideration among the hierarchy. The Pope had his own army and conquered neighboring Italian city-states. The Inquisition was used to arrest political enemies on the Church and Crown. This was the situation for centuries. While since the Enlightenment it has slowly lost its influence in first-world countries, its power in the third-world has continued to wreak havoc: over-population, AIDS, poverty.
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Rick stated “I always wonder why my Catholic bishops put all their effort into the lives of the unborn, but virtually none to help these people once they are born”. You need to get over your politics and open your eyes. If you would go to church, you would realize there have never been a bigger push to help our fellow men and women and their families. People are hurting and the churches are stepping up bigtime. The lion’s share of time, talent and treasure comes from the churches, I think you know that. It is easier to go hunting or shopping on a Sunday and not right the check evey week.
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alvin said, I feel REPUBLICANS are the party for the poor.
Wow !!! And the fox is the canine for the chickens.
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It’s complicated, Woody. I don’t expect you to dig into it and see things as a businessman and employer.
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Common alvin… you’ve got to twist logic to the point of breaking to write “Repubs are the party for the poor”.
If it were up to them…
-no minimum wage increases
-no health care
-no college financial aid
-no choice
-no future (unless you fight in their wars)
-no worker protections
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As far as helping mothers and babies after birth, there are many resources available. The maternity home in Warsaw, ND is one.
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That is a wonderful place. Believe it or not my wife and I donated for one of the rooms.
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” The lion’s share of time, talent and treasure comes from the churches, ”
If that were true, why do we have taxpayer-funded “assistance programs” that support more and more people every year?
First Guess: Every church, every mosque, every synagogue in America COMBINED does not provide 1/10 of the charity of the Federal and State governments.
Charity SHOULD be the responsibility of the Church/Mosque/Temple/Synagogue/etc (i.e., VOLUNTARY charity, freely given by individuals according to their conscience, not “charity” enforced via the Tax Code under penalty of law and threats of imprisonment); the Feds and the State have NO BUSINESS diverting tax money to help individuals.
The Feds got involved because the Religions abdicated their responsibility.
Now the Feds are in so deep and so irresponsibly that every deadbeat can get a check; and they all expect to live in their own apartment–or house.
Until reforms happen, expect abuses and problems to continue.
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One of the Catholic parishes, here in North Dakota, recieved a request for financial assistance from a family.
Fine. They recieved consideration for assistance, but were also offered jobs working in potato harvest. The family declined the work, so the Catholic parish denied the financial assistance request.
Since this family was able bodied and could work, but refused to, then they were told “no”.
If some people will not help themselves, then you have to say “no” to helping them.
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What check do you write every week? Do you mean you write a check to a Catholic church every week?
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Mathern said using the pulpit “to push for certain positions is an abuse of the church’s position, especially since the congregation can’t discuss the issue during a sermon.” The church’s position on some subjects is open to interpretation that even encourages a dialogue. There are other issues dictated as church doctrine and literally not open for debate. Some religions seem to be able to change church doctrine by popular vote. For me, I hope the Bishops are careful to limit their battles to Canon Law. The health insurance thing has me scratching my head a little, but I’m not very smart on some of this stuff, but when a Catholic has lost their faith, they’re probably the last to know.
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I guess white lies aren’t covered by the ninth commandment….In a statement issued Tuesday, Christopher Dodson, executive director of the North Dakota Catholic Conference, said the letter “merely shares Catholic doctrine on political responsibility” and “does not mention any candidates or tell parishioners how to vote.”
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“White lies?” That’s plain dishonesty (and from a group that claims moral leadership)!
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Where does the letter tell people what candidates to vote for?
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Mattern is a blow hard and seems to always be trying to promote himself. What last state wide race did he lose by 40, was is govenor or senate? Was he writing letters when the Bishops came out against the wars? Was he writing letters when the MN bishops were calling for higher state taxes in the tax of MN?
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Maybe he actually took his oath to uphold the COTUS (and the tax regulations) seriously?
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Catholic values? Oh I see. So we should vote for candidates that are pedophiles. How is it the Catholic Church is still in business after all the damage they have done?
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To make a wide determination of the “Catholic Church as pedophiles” is outrageous.
Only a small percent of priests every committed this. Look at any organization (boy scouts, etc.) and this happens. Not to make excuses for anyone, but many roganizations (public schools, etc.) have had this problem.
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The entire church hierarchy covered it up, Robert. And they have paid millions for their wrongdoing. Do you see why people are skeptical?
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On the other hand it isn’t fair to mark all the other priests and whole religion as being guilty by association as DC seem to do in this post.
I’m no fan of the religion, but I’ve felt empathy for all the priests who never were involved, but suddenly became a suspect because of the horribly decisions by the hierarchy for dealing with pedophile priest. In the end they too became victims from the whole mess.
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After what the Catholic church did to protect their pedophile priests they lost my trust. I don’t take chances when it comes to my kids. How do I know they aren’t still doing this? Where did they transfer the last guy? You see how it is I can’t put my faith in their leadership?
You are guilty by association when you are a willing member of an organization that protects pedophiles. Next to death sexual abuse is the worst thing that can happen to someone. It stays with you the rest of your life. How could a church cover this up repeatedly…not just once…but over and over again world wide?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I see what you’re saying, but that doesn’t take into account all those who have actually been active community workers helping the truly needy here in the US and even doing things like providing medical care and feeding the starving in war torn countries at great risks to their own lives. The ministry isn’t just in these nice big cathedrals. It’s in a lot of areas that most people would stay clear of too.
My point is that there’s a lot of devoted priests and nuns who have had to carry this burden they had nothing to do with because of their connection to the church. To just put them all in the same tent as all being guilty by association is basically as wrong as putting all Muslims in the same tent as terrorists. Just because they’re part of the religion doesn’t mean they endorse, encourage, or accept any of the wrongs committed by others of the same faith.
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Churches are technically businesses. Frankly I feel people get too hung up on religion. To vote according to what they preach at church on Sunday seems simple minded to me.
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Robert, there is a significant difference between the Catholic Church and most other organizations that have dealt with pedophiles within their organization. In particular, the Catholic Church undertook an organized effort not only to deny the existence of pedophiles within its clergy, but actively helped to conceal those monsters by transferring them from parish to parish allowing the pedophiles access to more and more victims. The Catholic Church was not just another organization that happened to have its statistical average of pedophiles within its ranks, it was an organization that actively concealed and enabled those monsters to continue to prey upon their victims. To try and absolve the Catholic Church of the responsibility to provide protection to the innocent on the basis that it happens in other organizations is not credible.
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If anything those who were actively involved in the cover ups should have had charges of conspiracy of the original crime. I can’t recall anyone ever getting such a charge. Just paying out a lot of money wasn’t enough justice for those who covered this up
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Of course, the chief enchilada in the cover-up happens to be the pope. He’s technically immune from prosecution because of the (bogus) statehood of the Vatican City — otherwise he would likely be in the international court answering for his crimes.
How did the home of the vicar of Christ get statehood? Its leader at the time (Pius XI) did a deal with Mussolini (the Lateran Treaty of 1929). The fascist Benito got the Catholic endorsement for his rise to power, and the church got control of Italian schools and Vatican City statehood in return.
Of course, the dogma of papal infallibility means that the pope can do no wrong — and as a consequence, cannot be culpable of a cover up. That, dear tundra, is why justice will never be done.
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Tundra, Bishop Robert Finn of St. Louis was convicted in September of failing to report child abuse and Msgr. William Lynn of Philadelphia was convicted this year of child endangerment for their roles in failing to disclose pedophiles under their direction.
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justasec,
Your history is corrrect, your interpretation of papal infallibility isn’t. It’s not that everything he says is inerrant; just what he proclaims ex cathedra. So, for example, a declaration that “The Italian soccer team is the best in the world.” carries no sense of infallibility.
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I might also add to the list Fr. MacGuire, spiritual leader and confessor to Mother Theresa’s order, who was convicted of sexual abuse a few years go and imprisoned.
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After the initial reports I didn’t follow it very close so I missed those. That’s good that a couple heads rolled, but it would seem that there should be several more on the chopping block.. Covering things up without turning the priests over to the law was bad enough, but to then infect a different community with those priests…..That should put them in the next cell….
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Somebody please explain just what it is you dislike about the proposal that anyone who shipped a priest who they knew was a pediphile to another community to again set up shop. How that person is equally as guilty as the pedifile and should be in the next cell. What is disagreeable about that. If it was your kid who became another victim after the problem was shipped to your community…You wouldn’t find the person who set that in motion every bit as responsible as the offender? Maybe even more responsible for not doing the right thing in the first place before there were more victims?
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Deep down, there really is not a lot of difference between priests and the Mafia. They both view themselves as a brotherhood, and do whatever is necessary to defend each other. The Catholic hierarchy began as priests. And cling to the idea that they are a select group. This is essentially the problem of the RC Church…they see themselves as masters, not as servants. But this has gone on since the beginning. Jesus’ admonition that his disciples live in poverty and serve, died out with the first generation.
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” Jesus’ admonition that his disciples live in poverty and serve, died out with the first generation.”
That wasn’t all that died out early.
Far as I’m concerned, St. Paul was the first corrupting influence of the early Church.
Jesus was inclusive–bring the little children to me.
St. Paul was exclusive–no homos, no whores, no this, no that.
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i don’t think Tim understood the letter or knows what a properly informed conscience is.
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Let me guess….Mathern is a Democrat.
This is more Bravo Sierra about the Johnson Amendment of 1954, of which, there has never been any legal action or enforcement.
I applaud Bishop Kagen for standing up for his church’s doctrine.
If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you weren’t a racist, you’ll have to vote for the other guy in 2012 to prove you’re not an IDIOT!
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If the only reason you voted for Obama in 08 was to prove you weren’t a racist, then you probably were one. Most people who voted for Obama in 08 realized he was the far superior candidate as he continues to be in 2012.
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realist, I have missed your defense of Miss Kenna. Why? You certainly. as the Heikamps hate religious freedom. Churches should set moral doctrine for members, even when in disagreement with your own. Right??
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You’re not making any sense, john. If you restate your point, I’ll try to respond.
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Realist you have one post on the Kenna political demonstration at a church. Why to be even more clear? WHY? I believe you realize that politics with the sister of a political candidate is inappropriate. Right??
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Nobody voted FOR Obama.
They voted AGAINST the Republican, as backlash for the Republicans not having sense enough to put down their “rabid dog” Bush.
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…and the “architect” of Bush’s election was Karl Rove — who is now heading up the main PAC (Crossroads) trying to get Rick Berg elected.
Rove was often referred to as “Bush’s Brain” — Google the term if you’d like to see what sort of character is behind this campaign.
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Shurkey: That’s actually not even close. Four years ago, the worldwide popularity of President Obama was described as a Tsunami. Once in office, every Republican I know wanted him to succeed. It would be un-American to wish otherwise. He’s still young, handsome and one of the best speech makers on the planet. Obamacare offended enough Democrats that an empty suit could probably beat him in November.
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Not really alvin. There are many examples to the contrary.
Senate minority leader McConnell stated in a meeting immediately after the election that the single most important thing he had to do was prevent Obama’s reelection — he said this while the country was still on the brink of economic disaster. I could go on and on with more examples of the the hatred and lies the fringe right groups and media have conveyed.
And re: “The affordable care act” aka Obama care… when presented to in an honest manner, the majority of Americans are for it.
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Of course the other side wants to prevent his re-election. Many far left Democrats think Republicans wanted Obama to fail. That means the country would have to fail. The Democrats don’t have a corner on love for our country. Also, state republican legislators won new offices all over the country in the mid-term elections, including Minnesota, on the healthcare issue. This is fruitless, but Rep & Dems alike care about this country. Our approaches to success are wuite opposite, though.
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Oh! And by the way….The publication of thie “Article was paid for through a firm named, “OUTBRAIN”!!
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I have to wonder if Mr. Mathern (or any other Democrat) would feel the exact same, with the same whining and outcry, if it was a black church leader or Islamic sheikh promoting certain ideals or even candidates? I am gonna guess not. He wouldn’t dare! Nope, that level of persecution is only reserved for Catholics and other conservative Christians. Totally hypocritical!
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When you start out telling us you don’t know anything about Democrats it would be better to just stop instead of then pretending to know what is in thier minds and what actions they would take.
And what does “black” have to do with anything? The local Catholic priest is “black”.
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Gallup reorts today “Romney currently leads Obama 52% to 45% among voters who say they have already cast their ballots
The bipartisan Battleground Poll, in its “vote election model,” is projecting that Mitt Romney will defeat President Obama 52 percent to 47 percent.
GALLUP MONDAY: R 51% O 46%…
The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Ohio Voters shows Romney with 50% support to President Obama’s 48%
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 49% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 47%
The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Wisconsin Voters shows the president and his Republican challenger each earning 49% support.
Michigan and Pennslyvania close.
We now have a race that leans Romney but Republicans need to turn out their base! So lets get to work!
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