Letter: Amendments both deserve ‘no’ votes
October 16, 2012 at 7:00 pm in Worthington Daily Globe
I was taught and have always believed that our constitution was created to protect our freedom. Some people want to pick and choose which freedoms to guarantee. Continue Reading
Where does this stop? What about the guy who wants to marry 3, 4,or 10 men or women? What if someone wants to marry their parrot or goldfish. Sounds silly, but so did same sex marriage until recently!
As far as voter ID, why in the world would you be opposed to something that could help deter fraud. I have to show my ID for numerous things weekly, it doesn’t bother me in the least. In this day and age it takes minutes to get a photo ID.
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Why do we need an Amendment on gay marriage when its not even legal in this state anyhow? Perhaps we need Amendments on things that are not legal now too. Amendement for stealing, murder, rape, speeding, jaywalking, etc should be done too, right?
Adding Amendments at the state or federal level are signs that Congress is weak and can’t due the task of creating laws. Amendments should be a rare thing and reserved for allowing MORE rights in our society, not limiting them.
Voting is a fundemental right. Placing limits on that right should never happen in a free democratic society.
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Preposterous, tired argument, demonstrating how ridiculous the discussion has become about marriage. Your comment is bigoted, hateful and beyond ignorant, pure and simple. There is already a law in MN banning same-sex marriage. Voting “yes” won’t change a thing, and even amendment supporters acknowledge it. How would YOUR life change if your gay neighbors, daughter, son, brother, or sister got married? It wouldn’t. How has life changed in ANY state where gay marriage is legal? It hasn’t. You KNOW the answer, but just refuse to admit it.
As for voter ID, my biggest problem with it is the COST. The Republicans have NO plan for implementation, should the amendment pass. They have NO idea how much it will cost — estimates between $1 million and $100 million. On MPR yesterday, one proponent said it would likely cost $50 million, but “worth every penny”! That is laughable… and a criminal waste of taxpayer’s money. AND, they’ll figure it all out AFTER the election (full cost and implementation plan) so you now have no idea what they’re going to stick you with. Do you buy a car, trusting the dealer will tell you how much it costs after you sign the purchase agreement? Do you buy ANYTHING without knowing how much it will cost upfront? If you do, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
Voter fraud is practically non-existent in MN, despite what the Republicans say. A tiny, tiny 10th of a percentage of all votes cast. What they’re trying to do is the equivalent of killing a squirrel with an AK-47. It’s pure nonsense. The cost of the voter ID program would be much better spent elsewhere. And you know that.
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Ah yes, resort to name calling….vintage eastender when someone disagrees with the libs. There’s a reason why this gets voted down again and again…most people don’t want it.
As far as voter ID you say….how can we buy ANYTHING without knowing the cost.
Does obamacare come to mind? Pelosi says we have to pass it so we know what’s in it!
Typical double standard.
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You have nothing original to say , so you try to change the subject. You didn’t like the way Obamacare was introduced? Fine. But you now think that same “tactic” should be used for another issue? THAT’s a double standard. Why not answer my questions? Has your life changed in any way since gay marriage became legal? Has your marriage been affected?
If the majority of the people vote “yes”, so be it. But it shouldn’t be because of ignorance, paranoia, or trying to protect society from polygamy or marrying their goldfish! Don’t you see how stupid that sounds? Laws already exist.
As for name calling, that’s the pot calling the kettle black. I’m not going to rehash some of the more outrageous personal attacks you’ve made. You know what they were.
I am challenging what you say, not your right to say it. I stand by my statements.
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I have just pointed out your hypocrisy!
Explain your beloved pelosi’s stance on obamacare as you say “do you buy a car before you know what it costs”
I have a bridge for you too!
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Gee, I thought this blog was about voter ID and gay marriage! Would anybody else like to try to bring the discussion back on topic?
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“Gee, I thought this blog was about voter ID and gay marriage! Would anybody else like to try to bring the discussion back on topic?”—- Nah, I’ll just sit back and watch pat e publically flog ya!
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Although I agree totally with pate and think she has made a wonderful argument – I’ll bring it back to gay marriage and voter ID. First on gay marriage. Our country was founded on biblical principles. The Bible clearly states that marriage is between one man and one woman. Final – no we shouldn’t have to vote on it but when people try to change what the Bible says and push their agenda on the rest of us – just look how the acceptance of homosexuals is pushed in our school system – then the rest of us have to defend our biblical beliefs. As far as the photo ID -pate said it welll. We have to show our ID for everything else so why not to vote which is a privilege stemming from our freedom. And I will add and couldn’t agree with her more – pelosi did the same thing with Obamacare and even made the comment – we will pass this healthcare package and read the 2000 pages later. And what is that costing the taxpayers.
We have so many dishonest people in this world today from the top on down, that we have to pass laws to protect the honest ones. I am voting yes on both amendments.
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“Our country was founded on biblical principles. The Bible clearly states that marriage is between one man and one woman.” Well it also states alot of other unusual things too. Can’t eat shellfish…Leviticus 11:9-12. Menstruation
is a sin…Leviticus 15:19-30. The list of weird things in the bible that we don’t do is endless.
However, regardless of the quirks of the Bible. Amercia was founded to escape religious persecution. To force the Christan belief system onto the society (25% which aren’t Christian) is 100% against what the founders would want. We are admired and take pride that we are a country in which any religion (or lack) of can be practiced, not have less rights because of that choice, and no fear from persecution from how we choose our religious views.
The idea that religious marriage as stated by the bible (which if you look, you can find justification for multiple wifes) is allowed MORE civil rights and liberties than a simple civil union is unconstitutional. If we start to use any religion, instead of morality as a basis for laws, then we become no better than many of the countries in the Middle East that we look upon with distain. Why favor one religious view over a civil/moral view to help determine societal laws?
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If I use the mind-set of Democrats, I’d have no problem marrying my sister because “we love each other” and want to take care of each other. Is marrying 2 women at the same time if I’m a man okay, as long as “we love each other”? As for voter ID: Upwards of 2,800 ineligible felons are believed to have unlawfully voted in Minnesota’s 2008 general election” and that 113 had been convicted of voting illegally in that election. You have to have a ID to buy beer, set-up a bank account, get a job, and to attend a rated “R” movie, but I guess those things are more important than protecting votes.
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If I use the mind-set of Democrats, I’d have no problem marrying my sister because “we love each other” and want to take care of each other. Is marrying 2 women at the same time if I’m a man okay, as long as “we love each other”? As for voter ID: You have to have a ID to buy beer, set-up a bank account, get a job, and to attend a rated “R” movie, but I guess those things are more important than protecting votes. http://www.theprojectveritas.org/voterfraud1012b
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Where do you get the $100 million? I have seen $10 – $12 million for initial costs, and around $3 million per election cycle. I haven’t been able to understand why showing an ID to vote is a big deal. I was just giving examples of things people have to show ID for that people don’t really complain about. But Eastender has to attack and question my age. If I was 18, 21 or 65 would it matter if my opinion differed from yours? I doubt it.
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What would be the easiest way to pay for it? A controversial way to pay for it would be to cut funding for undocumented students at public students. That’s around $50 million a year in MN. I’d even have no problem paying a bit more for my drivers license if that money went for funding voters ID’s for people. Is there an accurate number of Minnesotans or Americans for that matter that don’t have any type of photo ID? It seems to me there aren’t many places that an ID isn’t required.
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Don’t you think the legislators who pushed through the Voter ID amendment on the ballot should have to answer your questions? Shouldn’t they know how much implementation will cost? Shouldn’t they have thought about how to pay for it? Shouldn’t they be able tell us how many voters will be impacted (not allowed to vote) because they have no photo ID? They know. But they can’t and they won’t divulge. One reason they WON’T tell you how many voters will be impacted is because it’s likely a very LARGE number. It appears the legislators considered NONE of this, except disenfranchisement.
Why do only Republicans propose Voter ID? Why do ONLY Republican secretaries of state in swing states work so hard to suppress voter registration and voting hours? Don’t give me the line about Dems being the party of voter fraud. Read up on it and you’ll see the big news lately involved Republican operatives who were paid millions to register fraudulent voters. They tossed some kid in jail today out east, caught red-handed tossing registration forms in the trash.
Every taxpayer gripes about fees going up to pay for anything. You’ll not get much support for that idea. And your Draconian suggestion to screw innocent children out of an education — well, you know that’s unworkable and not a little crazy. Who’s going to enforce that?
Here’s an intelligent PBS report on voter ID in a Q&A format. Note it says that as many as 11% of eligible voters in the US (21 million people!) don’t have government-issued photo IDs.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/the-daily-need/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws/14358/
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I don’t think breaking the law is innocent.
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That’s it?
None of your questions were answered in the web link? (Or don’t you trust PBS to be ‘fair and balanced’?)
You’ve got nothing to say about the legislators and their role and responsibility in all this? Have you asked Hamilton? That’s a good place to start. I know he and his staff read these posts, so perhaps they’ll chime in. I’m NOT holding my breath, however.
I gather from the chorus of “thumbs downers” that you’re all willing to give your elected officials a free pass on this issue.
Taking your “innocence” analogy further: If a guy robs a bank, you’re OK with throwing his kids in jail, too? You can’t have it both ways.
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Unfortunately, the innocent have to pay for the violaters. People have to pay more for their product because of shoplifters. People have to show their ID at places (theaters, bars, cigarette buying) because underage people tried to break the rules. People have to show their ID at stores when writing a check. And why do they have to show their ID? Because of fraud and violaters – the same reason I am voting yes on the amendment.
If I want a drivers license because it is a freedom and privilege to drive, I go and get my picture taken and don’t make a fuss. So why should people have a fit that they have to have their picture taken to vote, another freedom and privilege.
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If you believe in “freedom and liberty” and then support a constitutional marriage amendment preventing the freedom and liberty of others, you need to look up the definitions of freedom and liberty.
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Marriage is defined in the Webster dictionary as the relation between a man and a woman. The Bible defines marriage between one man and one woman. What is so hard to understand? It is human mankind that is trying to redefine the definition. The amendment will protect that definiton – the Bible’s definition and the dictionary’s definition.
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The Christian Bible isn’t the law of the US. That would be a theocracy. Is that what you want? A theocracy?
Examples of theocracies in the world are Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, United Arab Emirates, Pakistan , Malaysia and Vatican City.
Some would argue that the state of Utah is a theocracy.
Would you like to live by any of these examples laws, especially if your brand of beliefs is a minority?
Religious freedom doesn’t mean you can force others to live by your own beliefs.
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Either you are cherry picking Websters dictionary, or you have an old version.
See (2) a,b, and c.
marriage:
1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage.
Here are some traditional marriages of the Bible that don’t fit the definition as between one man and one woman.
Polygamy
bigamy with brothers heirless widow
a man a woman and her slaves
a man and one or more wives with some sex slave concubines
a male soldier and a female prisoner of war
a rapist and his victim.
Abraham, David and Moses had more than one wife and or concubines to name a few men in relationships that were not between one man and one woman.
If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t marry someone of the same sex and don’t join a church that recognises same sex marriage. Hang out with people who share your convictions.
If consenting adults want to commit to each other, it’s not taking rights away from you or anyone.
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“Here are some traditional marriages of the Bible that don’t fit the definition as between one man and one woman.”
You forgot Sodom and Gomorrah! Another case of “cherry picking?”
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The institution of marriage was given to us by God as the joining of one man and one woman; for life. As an American citizen you are given the right to choose and practice your religion without interference from the government. So how does allowing gay marriage intrude on the rights of “most” religions? You only need to look to our northern border with Canada as an example. Many ministers in Canada have given up the right to perform a state licensed marriage in order to not compromise their faith, and to protect them from possible prison time for not performing a homosexual wedding. That’s just WRONG! If you are not a religious person, I can understand how this would not matter to you, but please understand how it could affect those who are. So, why should you vote “Yes” on the marriage amendment? Take a look to our neighbors to the South in Iowa. Did the voters of Iowa get to voice their opinion on allowing gay marriage in the state? The answer is no. The Iowa Supreme Court ruled and 3 weeks later gay marriage was legal in Iowa. I know some of the readers of this will call me a bigot or even homophobic, but you couldn’t be more wrong. I know many people who live in a homosexual relationship, and I am proud to call many of them friends. Do I agree or even understand the lifestyle they lead? No. Gay marriages are illegal in Minnesota, but remember it only takes a handful of people in a court room to change that position.
Voter ID amendment: I have to show ID to enter and leave the country, present a check for payment, purchase alcohol, tobacco or even to enter a drinking establishment. Shouldn’t our vote be held to at least the same criteria? No brainer folks! Vote “Yes”
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And how exactly has life changed for Iowans since gay marriage became law? Apart from the activists who are working so hard to throw out the judges, does the average Iowan pay much attention?
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I have no problem with showing an ID to vote. I will, however, only vote YES if the legislators can tell us how they’re going to pay for it. Unless they’ve got $50-$100 million sitting around in surplus somewhere, you’re buying a “pig in a poke”… and you will certainly get nailed with additional taxes or fees, whatever you want to call it, to implement and maintain this program.
The Republicans used to be the party of fiscal responsibility and smaller government — “keep big government out of our lives,” they cry. How does this Voter ID amendment fit with this philosophy? Obviously, it doesn’t. If you vote YES, you’re giving these lawmakers a pass — a VERY expensive one, if there is no accountability. Such hypocrisy.
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I hope you were asking the democrats how they were going to pay for Obamacare before they passed that law.
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Nope, I wasn’t. It has nothing to do with Voter ID in MN. Once again this is a weak attempt to change the focus.
This is YOUR chance to demonstrate some fiscal responsibility and show your Republican legislators that you want them to answer a few important questions before they get your support.
You didn’t get a direct voice on Obamacare. Get over it. You now have a direct vote. Use it wisely. As I said, if this prevails, you’ll pay for it big time through increased taxes or fees.
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Obamacare is funded. Google is your friend. Look it up.
Did you ask Bush how he was going to fund two wars and a drug plan that was put on the national credit card?
What does your question have to do with the two amendment topics of this thread anyway?
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