Duluth class sizes reach largest in teachers’ memories
October 6, 2012 at 7:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
A few of the 49 students in Joe Vukelich’s senior American government class at Denfeld High School don’t even fight for one of the 35 desks anymore; they have grown used to sitting on the floor, a windowsill, a lawn chair or at a table against the wall. Continue Reading

It’s a shame there isn’t a third high school in town, maybe up on the hill with a nice view.
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So that limited resouces could be spread across three high schools instead of two… I am not fan a of the red plan or our school board but people are giving our elected state officials a free pass on this one. They have been playing shell games with education funding for many years now. The republican solution to our last shutdown was to steal from the schools yet again. While at the same time getting rid of property tax credits, leaving the cities, counties and school districts to their own devices. What are they supposed to do raise already high property taxes or cut services. Now ask yourself why there are 49 students in a classroom? Yes out school board sucks, but the problem starts much higher up the chain than that.
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The country was heading into a depression when the Red Ink plan was crammed down our throats. The screwel board thought there was plenty of money that could be robbed from the local taxpayers to pay for building monuments to the screwel boards egos but the depression changed all of that…big time. And then the depression hit the States’ revenues. States are required to have balanced budgets so is it any surprise that the State started playing games with all budget items, including education. Anyone with even half a brain could have seen the fiscal problems developing at the local and at the State level but our screwel board couldn’t see those developing problems. What does that say about the intellegence level of the screwel board? What we are left with now are monuments to the unfathomable-stupidity of our screwel board members.
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that when it was built was the considered the most technologicaly advanced high school out there…in total agreement with you on this one dan…. to “d” its not republicans fault that Duluth wasted money on new schools it never needed. My high school got half burned down and did my city take that chance to build a shiny new expensive one no….not to mention my high school had the highest graduating class in the state so there were plenty of students in each class yet i excelled in school (just not in life yet doh!!!)…
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If the school board would have let Duluthians vote on the facilities plan we would fell a lot better about voting for a new levy. Instead they rammed marble countertops and copper siding down our throats “in the name of children” knowing when the classes got too big they’d go back to the well and ask for more…in the name of the children.
“Teachers are working far later, coming in earlier, eating lunch in their classrooms, not taking breaks,” he said. “It’s not a healthy thing.” My only comment on this is that it sucks but welcome to the world of the small business owner.
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Wanner, Gronseth and DNT were the biggest pom pom girls for the Red Plan.
They now whine that they receive one of the lower levies in the State when they forced the largest school facility bonding in the history of Minnesoat on the backs of Duluth taxpayers. Pretty ironic that Dixon once walked through classrooms and complained he had to walk sideways through the aisles because they were so crowded. But the new buildings would fix all that. The ONLY one that made out here is JCI.
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Does anyone think we are better off now than we were before? Smartboards,extra pool lanes and glass atriums. The red plan is 30 million over budget…..just think what we could do with that money. But no……they are going to guilt us into paying again higher taxes.
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John ( R )…..that is exactly what I have been saying since the inception of the Red Plan….in the Duluth area where there are far too many lower paying jobs….people cannot afford all of the taxes imposed on everyone…..as it is……let alone the continual adding on of more taxes and the escalation of all the existing taxes. We all knwe the School Board was going to make us all feel guilty about this…..as they knew if they plowed through the Red Plan, that they would not have money for where it was REALLY NEEDED…..in the classroom….so, they cry about the lack of funds for the classroom….knowing full well that they will get more levy money by guilting the taxpayer into being submissive……again!!
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If this story doesn’t get the biggset number of commets of any story that has been in the paper I will be suprised. And all will be sayiing the same thing: the students were screwed by the school board-and I agree
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Welcome to the future. The students are paying the price of what their college, work and home life will be. Smaller spaces, crowded conditions and less is more. The gravy train is at its last stop as there is no more money to squeeze out of the middle class. Reality is a harsh teacher and the citizens, students and parents need to vote out those SBM who did not represent them.
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squirrelgardens……Like I have said numerous times….never vote for the incumbant…..until they get the message….listen to the voter……or never get elected!
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Pay attention Hermantown…..Your school board hired JCI to implement a facilities plan. Learn from our mistakes.
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john ( r )……correct….as well as the Northern St Louis Cty school district….they have learned the hard way as well! I cannot believe Hermantown School District is even entertaining the thought of hiring JCI ……for anything! The City of Duluth also learned about JCI…..but fortunately, the City had a performance claus built into the contract with JCI. They got their money back…..for JCI’s underperformance ……( actual savings not up to par with stated savings pitch by JCI )…….need I say more?
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And don’t forget the Dixon/JCI fiasco in Faribault, which preceded Duluths’ own fiasco but our screwel board hired JCI to wreck this community anyway. Faribault is suffering through exactly the same damages from Dixon and JCI as what Duluth is now starting to experience. With a precedent like that why did our screwel board agree to the Dixon/JCI fiasco? Graft? Corruption? Kickbacks to all? Outrageous ignorance? Why, oh why?
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Consider yourselves warned (like a thousand times) before the Board were led down this shiney path. Thousands of people signed petitions, spoke up trying to warn that all that glitters is not gold but people that supported these copper schools, atriums, olympic size pools, astro turf, additional stadiums and Board members that got us here where we are. The Board has admitted that they use 5 million a year to transfer from the general fund (think teachers, supplies etc) to the buildings fund (think shiney new, awe inspiring views) to pay the bond payments on these buildings. 5 million that could have been used to pay teachers, reduce class sizes etc. They can lie all they want about the “different pots of money” but that is what is being done – transferring 5 million from one fund to the other, every year. They can blame the state for delayed payments – and yes, I don’t deny that hurts as well but if they hadn’t spent down their wad and safety net then they would have been able to manage those delays. Instead they spent down the wad on whatever their wim at the time. They were told by JCI that they would realize enough savings well before this but have any of those savings come through? Transportation costs are up. Red Plan cost has huge overruns. Heating and cooling costs have not reduced. I don’t doubt they are beautiful schools, but at what cost. It would be interesting to see if the teachers were asked privately – without risk – would they rather have older classrooms and 20 students or the newer classes and 49 students…what would they choose. Because anyone knows it isn’t the views, or the pools, or the astro turf, or certainly the air conditioning that teaches children – it’s the teachers. Communities all across the country have fallen for JCI’s slick sales pitch (you can have it all during a recession??) and they are waking up a few years after JCI walks away with their money to see that the savings simply weren’t there. Meanwhile JCI has almost doubled in value as a company. Sorry, but I personally won’t support a levy until the last Board member involved in this mess not only is no longer on the Board, but gives a public apology. Ann Wasson signed this original contract on her own- and she should have never been given that power to make that decison and yet she sits there still – shoulders and head held high as if she thinks she knows better than the average citizen she helped steal the vote from. Gronseth, Hansen, DNT, the Chamber’s David Ross, Drew Digby, Pam Kramer – the list goes on and on of community members that publicly took the bait – hook, line and sinker and were advocates for the Red Plan and refused to look at the warnings. 49 kids in a class? Kids sitting on the floor, on window sills, desks turned sideways in these “new” classrooms? And this is what this community gets for hiring JCI – an heating and air conditioning company to plan their schools. And Hermantown – you’re next if you hire this company.
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Elizabeth B. …..My exact sentiments….we have said this all along, and we got pushed to the side! Are the voters and taxpayers EVER going to learn?? Around here….I have my doubts!
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I do not understand why students and parents would want to be in this type of an educational setting when there is a third high school in Duluth, Harbor City International School. The class sizes there are limited (average 18 students in a room) and, not surprisingly, Harbor City was ranked as a Reward School by the Department of Education, meaning that HCIS students are learning, graduating, and meeting their growth goals. The school might not have competitive sports, but they make sure the students that go there are ready to be successful in college and life.
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Dare I say it math and sciences should be the focus. Language skills of the Far East and Middle East offered….sports? Very few can make it in this Global Business Climate on their hockey or football skills. shocking yes but reality.
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If the school board would like to know where the problem is they should replace one their fancy new smart boards with a mirror.
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Patriot…..well said! LOL!!!
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No one is punishing the students Matt. We are out of money and not going to give the School Board anymore. Students will come and go and eventually be taxpayers. Their parents should explaing to the little darlings how a budgets works. This is the cold hard reality of life that the gravy train is at the stop. Guilt and It is for the Children attitude does not sway me as when is the entitlement going to end for the DSB.
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So the solution is throw more money at the problem? The states 12-13 biennium 41% of the budget goes toward K-12 education. With all the money being spent, the students aren’t learning what they should be.
Frank Wanner really aggravated me with this quote, “Teachers are working far later, coming in earlier, eating lunch in their classrooms, not taking breaks,” he said. “It’s not a healthy thing.”
Frank needs to head out into the corporate world and realize there are many people doing that everyday. That is just the way it is. What is also not mentioned is the DFT, and their luxurious benefits package.
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Matt…..Please consider this….what you said about levy amounts may or may not be true….depends on your source, as I have seen different sources with different answers ( and I mean real sources ). Anyway, also remember the following…..Incomes of people living here are much less than the Stat average in the Duluth area……we also have total tax % of income at a much higher % of income around here…..our poverty % is much higher…. City of Duluth’s debt is much higher….with bonding debts….the unfunded retiree debt……and no money to repair roads or anything else around here! A lot of our elected people around Duluth….( the City of Duluth….the ISD 709 School Board) have spent us into the hole….big time……and not a big effort to recruit business and jobs into the area….to increase our taxbase……thus producing more cash for roads….schools etc! Hope you see the flip side of the coin here!
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Matt- How naive and self-righteous of you to volunteer to spend other peoples’ hard earned money. Why haven’t you marched into the ISD 709 offices and stroked a check for the $300 per student difference, I mean since you say you’re not out of money? Put your money where your blowhard mouth is.
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i agree this a perfect opportunity to talk to your own kids about how taxes and how a budget worksand how that is affecting their education..the levys not being passed is hurting students yes but so does the extra taxes we pay because of the Red Plan.
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Well, I’m betting that a lot of people would vote for more funding for the schools if the KIDS were allowed to set the budgets etc. Surely they could do a much better job of it than the current school board….even at the elementary school level.
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I don’t think you (or many people in Duluth) get it! These school board people are like drug addicts; they will never get enough money from us, no matter how many levies are passed. They just keep spending and we cannot afford it anymore. It really is that simple. And if we keep giving them more money the children will continue to suffer, because their focus has never been what’s best for our children,..NEVER!!! It’s so obvious! Pretty looking schools don’t educate kids, teachers do.
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This was supposed to be in reply to one of Matt’s comments, so please disregard the initial “you” comment.
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Have them return the 5 mil/year designated for teachers and books they siphon off for the Red Plan and ask for a levy to cover their cost overruns. Why dont they do this? Because its easy to extort money from people when you use their children as bargaining chips. Dirty politics at its finest.
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Yes Matt some people are out of money and just live on a basic budget plan. If you doubt how this tax and spend is a detriment on a higher plane….look at Spain, Greece and Portugal. I live in reality and if that is deemed as mean spirited then okay? My life has been one of paying my way, working through college and grad school and not living on credit. It is the price that these students with parents who may have voted for this current School Board to live with. I can not fix stupid but I can say enough is enough. Is it no wonder that the monied and talented class are moving out of the city to be spared being taxed out of their homes, businesses and retirement. Matt feel free to give the School Board 60 percent since you seem to think money grows on trees.
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When are the Red Plan savings going to start kicking in?
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David….Say what?……Say when?…..LOL!! We all knew these “supposed” savings would NEVER materialize……I guarantee…..that the expenses of running the new schools is going to be ……higher than the older schools they replaced! So…..anyway, we have lost the “savings” we were promised…..as well as higher expenses…..I can surely smell another levy increase comming ahead…..what say you…..and everyone else??…..NYET!!!
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A couple of points:
-When are the supposed Red Plan savings going to start?
-How much would have been spent-saved if the Red Plan was never implemented, Central stayed open, etc.
-Ultimately, this is horrible PR for the City of Duluth for families looking to move or relocate to Duluth.
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I chuckle when I hear teachers complain about being overworked. Their definition of such is far off base it’s comical. I heard one complain the other day about having to work a few evenings for conferences. Of course he forgot to mention his upcoming 4-day break for MEA Weekend, another 4-day break for Thanksgiving, a 12-day break for Christmas and two separate weeks off in the spring. And let’s not forget that little hiatus known as summer vacation.
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Teachers are not paid for any of those holidays- many work second jobs-
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Yeah, okay.
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Yes they are, they are payed an annual salary. Also most teachers make between $60,000-70,000 a year. If you don’t believe me, you can google search your children’s teachers salaries, it is public information.
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Holidays, breaks add up to about 3 months off. So be sure when quoting a salary to mention that it is for 9 months of work. Average MN teacher salary 53,680 equates to a rate of 71,573 a year. Plus the very nice health care benefit. Not bags of money, but comfortable.
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Art would your fellow school board members think that you were arrogant if you said “I told you so”?
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What ? They don’t have enough money. Dixon and Johnson Controls said you can’t afford to keep all those old schools. Just tear them down and build new ones and you will save boat loads of money. I never did understand how all that worked…..guess I’m just not smart enough to be a school board member.
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Any money they save by consolidating schools goes back into the plan to pay for part of the construction costs. We won’t see any of the savings for another 15 or 20 years. It would be interesting to see if the energy savings JCI projected come in at what they claimed. The city of Duluth won a settlement against JCI over energy savings that fell way short on the steam plant. If the school board had half a brain they should hold JCI accountable should the energy savings fall short of projections.
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john ( R )…..The school board cannot ( unfortunately ) hold JCI accountable for energy savings that fall way short of projections…..the board DID NOT put into their contract with JCI… a performance claus….making JCI responsible for the difference in energy expenses…..what else could we expect from this school board?…..LOL!! There are fewer buildings than before…..and last winter was a mild winter for heating….and still, the heat costs were higher than with more of the older buildings! And the difference in costs was NOT due to higher natural gas prices….they used more cubic feet of natural gas……than they did previously!
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It would still be nice to know if the operational savings are in line with what JCI projected. That was one of the big talking points of the red plan. I would think that now that the majority of the plan has been built we would start to see some before and after numbers.
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john ( R )….yes, it would be nice….but, do not bank on hearing about the results of the operating expenses…..unless, they are in line with JCI projections! And that is NOT going to happen….as so far, the expenses have been HIGHER…..even with LESS buildings and a MILD winter last season, and would have been worse, if the winter were colder. The higher heat costs are NOT due to higher natural gas cost….it is due to more cubic feet of natural gas consumed by the “more efficient” buildings. Of course the cooling costs are higher as well. We all have to remember as well…..JCI also has the contract to maintain and repair all of the HVAV components of all the buildings! They took us to the cleaners on the buildings…..guess what…..they get to do it some more! Only in Duluth….do we put up with these kinds of schenanigans…..any wonder why everone in the area is broke??
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Well… at least it looks like the schools are being fiscally conservative. More students and fewer teachers. That was the idea, right?
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Merv…..they are NOT doing this to be more fiscally conservative……they have no choice…..they have no money for teachers, books, equipment, supplies etc…..as they take 5 million per year from the general fund (classroom money) to service the debt on the Red Plan. They planned it to be this way from the beginning…..so they can cry to the taxpayer for more money from another levy!
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Nonetheless, it is an act of fiscal conservatism. Had they not just run out of money, you would have already read this article years ago.
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Merv……please get a copy of the whole financial…..and read VERY, VERY CAREFULLY……it does not matter…..they are ALWAYS going to be OUT OF MONEY….this was built into the RED PLAN….if they did not touch the General fund ( classroom money ) they would not have been able to pull this off….with approval from the Dept of Education ( Minnesota )…..so, they take the money every year to pay on the Red Plan debt….from the classroom money…..knowing full well that if they cannot get the taxpayer to replace that money…..guess what……no teachers……no books…..no equipment……no supplies…..SO, they plead to the taxpayer that they need the money “for the kids”……in other words…..laying another “guilt trip” on the taxpayer! Are you BEGINNING to understand? Hope so…..cuz’ there is a hell of a lot more…..where that came from!
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Sigh…. Still waiting for a reporter to do some investigative reporting on those supposed cost savings Johnson Controls promised us with the Red Plan. I suppose that is “proprietory” information with JCI too… Quite the sweet contract for them. They got a big percent of all work – why do small plans when you can overhaul and make millions>?, no performance clause, no guarantee of promised savings, and when anyone requests documents or more information they simply say it’s proprietory and protected under their contract. Are there no reporters out there willing to dig for this?
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Elizabeth B…..LOL!!! Investigative reporting on the Red Plan? You are joking…..right? LOL!! I guess I do not have to tell you to hold your hand on your ……. till it grows there! We all know this will NEVER happen……I know….wishful thinking at best…..LOL!!
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Elizabeth: The DNT, being the cowards that they are, will never dig for answers that would reveal just how much the screwel board, JCI and the DNT have lied to the taxpayers about the Red Ink plan.
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ulysses…at least the Ely newspaper is trying to dig for some facts on the St Louis County schools….Interesting article about that in the DNT. Now if we could only get our very own newspaper to do some fact checking to see if we are realizing the savings that JCI projected.
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We open-enrolled our children out of the Duluth district. 27 in a kindergarten class and 34 in 5th versus 15 and 16 respectively at their new school – no brainer in my book.
As a Duluth taxpayer, I hope the students are being taught to treat the new facilities with more respect than they showed the old ones.
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Shorelines, there’s alot of Duluth students open-enrolled for that very reason. If I had children in school I’d do the very same thing as you are doing. There is alot to be said for the smaller schools (districts) and classroom size is right there at the top of the list. They have quality teaching staff and can provide a more personal connection with the students and their families.
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In another article in the last couple of weeks a school employee said there are no efficiency savings, the cooling, ventilation systems cost as much to run as the old less efficient buildings. I will see if I can find it.
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I would say this plan is working, called “Dumbing Down America”. Not that the students do not want to learn, just the system is unwilling to teach them. Keep voting for these same school board types and this is what you will get, mausoleums of education.
So sad as I feel with a pencil and 3 ring notebook my education excelled so long ago. I could read, write more than my name, and add beyond 1 and 1.
If we don’t get back to the core of education, the 3 R’s we have failed.
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Well, that’ll help the GOP, what with their claims that women who don’t want to get raped will not get pregnant and their general historical revisionism.
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Well, if the school board and JCI planned these schools with a vision for the future, one can only assume they saw a major decline in population for the future.
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LOL Next time I guess I’ll have to actually spell out ‘sarcasm’ in this kind of post.
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Looks like the School Board has done it again! Was on the news a while ago….the School Board just voted in ANOTHER 11.9% increase in taxes ( they will probably reduce the % by December tho )…..anyway, here we go again….and make no mistake about it…..they will put up another levy to vote on in November of 2013! And do not forget, that the City of Duluth and St Louis County will be raising their share of the property tax as well…..ding ding ding…..another round……here we go again!
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I heard on a local 610 radio show yesterday morning the new Western Middle School is the second most expensive school in the country per square foot. If that is true, and gets reported to the public, a new levy will have zero chance of passing. I’ll hold my judgement until I get the facts but the copper siding is probably a pretty good indicator it’s true. Anyone have that story?
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Doesn’t it seem strange that so soon after a total reorganizing of the district buildings, new buildings built, some buildings decommissioned, studies done, numbers looked at etc……., that we have buildings with class rooms that don’t have enough space and/or equipment (as in desks) for the students ?
Wouldn’t you think that for at least a few years, until the population changes, things would be in perfect equilibrium ? What kind of planning (or lack thereof) was done ?
It’s like a family with 10 kids building a 3 bedroom house, moving in, and wondering where all the kids are going to sleep since you don’t have enough bedrooms or beds. The time to think about that is before you break ground on the house.
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jessica…….I agree! Unfortunately, look at who we have doing “our” bidding for us…..LOL!! I have been in Duluth all my life……and have never witnessed such a short-sighted expensive project, riddled with so many problems….and with the people that are in “control”……making such disastrous decisions…..1 after another after another,,,,,and to make matters even worse…..our fellow voters keep putting these people back on the board! Like I have said numerous times here…….the voters in the Duluth area will NEVER, EVER learn! I really hate to say that, as these folks are our neighbors, friends, co-workers etc,,,,but, they just do not seem to get it! “Lights are on……nobody is home”…..LOL!!
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Don’t forget Hermantown……JCI is working with Hermantown on a facilities plan. Would you hire JCI after seeing what they did with the St Louis County schools and Duluth schools? The Hermantown school board must have been out to lunch the past five years not too see the damage that was done.
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Apparently bribes and promises of kickbacks can open any number of doors anywhere.
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So then Rudy, are there scores of classrooms that remain empty because of the lack of teachers? How many? When I graduated from East 20 years ago we had a 7 period day with 1 studyhall hour included. How many hours are students currenty being educated today? Less school teaching hours, same curriculum=bigger class sizes. If each teacher taught the same hours that their teachers likely did, class sizes would likely be much smaller. Teachers Union wins, kids lose.
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There aren’t less teaching hours – just fewer choices (class periods). The classes are longer. Teachers at the middle schools are teaching 40 minutes longer every day than they did in previous years. Prep and team time was cut, $2 mil cut from middle schools and teachers ARE teaching longer with more students in the classes. Do your research.
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Rudy…from today’s DNT article….
“In recent years taxpayers have seen annual levy increases in the 5 percent range. This year, 4.6 percent is the low-end option the School Board will consider. That’s how much of an increase the district needs to make its December transfer of $4.9 million from the general fund to its debt-service fund, which is part of the long-range facilities plan financial setup. The jump to 11.9 percent is necessary if the board decides to reduce how much money it takes from the general fund to pay off debt. The difference between the 4.6 percent increase and the 11.9 percent increase is $1.9 million.
The reason for the jump lies in the failure to sell buildings such as Central High School, Rockridge Elementary, Secondary Technical School and other properties. That revenue was meant to be a major source of construction debt payment. In its place, the dwindling fund balance has been used.”
Yup …real simple.
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I would like to offer the school board the opportunity to quadruple their usual prices they get for these schools. The bid is $4 for each unsold property they currently have. Heck, I’ll even go a little crazy and offer $10 for the Central property. Please reply if interested.
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From the districts long range facilities plan website…..they claim
*LRFP saves $5.3 million per year in operations
*Fewer schools
*Fewer empty classrooms
*More efficient operations
*No teachers layoffs from LRFP
*Improved facilities + lower operating costs= more robust educational programs
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I know it’s going to come as a shock to some of you idiots on this board but educating kids does cost money. Why don’t some of you whiners come down to the Twin Cities and see what were paying.
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Duluth is not Edina…..we realize education costs money. Our soccer moms demanded that Duluth have facilities like they have in the metro. They got what they wished for. But now we have 40 + kids in some classes. We are faced with a 12 percent bump in the levy which may not help lower the student / teacher ratio. It will go to service debt for the red plan. I feel bad for the kids.
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The teachers will probably strike for a raise from that levy money too. Even less for the kids. Thanks, screwel board.
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pc……that would be ok……if the average payscale were the same in Duluth as it is in the Twin Cities….the average pay in Duluth is 30-35% LESS than in the Twin Cities….and some expenses like gasoline are HIGHER in Duluth! Now, why do you think the reasoning is for that?
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Why is the Rochester, MN and Fargo area booming and Duluth as been shrinking for 50 years? Maybe it has something to do with the labor union mentality and the poor governance it creates? At some point the citizens in Duluth need to look in the mirror and blame themselves. If you graduate from a Duluth high school and don’t buy a bus ticket to the twin cities the joke is on you. Unless, of course, you want to get a job working for government…
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