Duluth Council foresees steep climb to keep up roads
October 1, 2012 at 7:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
Without any casino revenue flowing into city coffers, Duluth will put the brakes on street improvements in 2013.
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Duluth Council foresees steep climb to keep up roads
29 Comments
The real problem is urban sprawl. There are too many long expensive roads without the tax base to support them. The new Western Middle School is a perfect example, but the mall area is full of them as well. Pretty much any road that doesn’t conform to the grid system is a cost burden to the city. I believe that the problems the city faces go beyond increasing taxes vs. cutting costs. We may need to seriously consider how we’re going to downsize and downscale our entire infrastructure to avoid going bankrupt on maintenance costs alone.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I don’t hear towns like Superior, or Ashland, or Cloquet, or Hibbing, or suburbs of Minneapolis – St. Paul complain they don’t have any money to fix roads. It is not urban sprawl, it is bad money management on behalf of the City of Duluth. But the city has money for bike trails, or a fancy new transportation hub.
Have you ever ventured out of Minnesota. There are many cities across the country that don’t follow the grid pattern.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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You can’t compare Duluth to small cities like Hibbing and Ashland. The Twin Cities suburbs are able to afford their roads for two reasons: 1.) Zoning that only accommodates upper-income housing, and 2.) way more state and federally funded highways pass through the suburbs (which makes it possible for them to exist in the first place). Bike and transport funding is microscopic compared to the money for roads and highways.
For being such a staunch conservative, you sure seem to feel *entitled* to an abundance of pristine roads.
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Merv, I like ulysses do not want to be pigeon-holed into that conservative category.
How about we compare Rochester, or St Cloud with Duluth. Does that comparison work better for you? Rochester is larger than Duluth, but gets less money from from the state. St Cloud is comparable size and gets less state money. I feel that bike trails shouldn’t be funded. Make them register their bikes yearly like I have to my vehicles, and than they can share the road and pay for the road also.
I do not feel “entitled” to pristine roads, but with all the money that goes towards roads and to see them in the state they are is disgusting.
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I don’t know why you keep bringing up bike paths. That argument might have some merit if road to bike path funding was 5:1 or 10:1 – or even 50:1. But it’s not even close to that. If it were, we’d probably have bike paths alongside every street. Your claim has no basis. It’s just emotionally driven picking-and-choosing.
And registering bicycles? Perhaps your not a “conservative” but don’t you think that’s a bit of an overreach? Why not register roller skates then, too? Or shoes for that matter? I’m sure there are way more people walking along the Lakewalk than bicycling. With your logic, why shouldn’t they pay?
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Merv: When I was a kid, about a hundred years ago, every spring people with bikes were expected to go the the nearest fire hall and re-license their bike(s) for a fee of $5.00 per license. What would be wrong with reinstating such a requirement and charge maybe $20.00 per license (allowing for inflation)?
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Still a non-solution. It’s just cherry picking the things you don’t like without focusing on the root of the problem.
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But Merv, it is a small step in the right direction. Every journey begins with the first step. Let the bike riders pay their fair share too.
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You can see that the paper/administration (they are the same) is already getting ready for contract negotiations with the basic unit by bashing them. How would the police and fire be consolidated? are they going to be riding toghter? Privitvsing plowing means having contrators on call with equipment available 24/7 there aren’t big enough players with the equipment availabe for that and for them to be on call would cost being as the owners would want pay for being available and for private owners to get crews to come out they have to offer their workers incentive. I work for a contrator and he has asked if I would work energancy jobs with short notice and his emergancy rate is a lot higher being as he will be billing time and materials. The privateing will work IF there is no snow-which in this area is like playing Russian rouletee with an automatic
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Other cities seem to be able to keep up their roads without casino revenues- why is this such an issue for Duluth? Our proposed increase in the tax levy for 2013 should have dealt with this. Instead, we have one of the lowest increases in decades of our cities tax levy. Our city portion of our property taxes, which pays for police, fire, streets, libraries, etc is a joke. If we simply paid taxes that were commensurate to other cities of our size then funding street improvements would be simple.
Streets should not come at the cost of further reductions in city services or cuts to public safety. It is time for politicians to worry less about reelections and more about what is in the best interest of our city and those who live within its boundaries.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Roads in Duluth are talked about every year and never has there been a plan to perpetuate into the future. All too political an issue to have stability. Just read remarks of the politicians in this article.
First off it should be taken out of the hands of the Engineering Division in Duluth. They have some good people, but are to influenced by political pressures and good old boy syndromes..
No need to rush this through and end up with another no work political answer.
I throw out for chatter we get the legislature to allow Duluth to add a fuel usage tax on fuels sold in Duluth. Why? As I feel adding to property tax is regressive, and for those wanting to use streets should be those that pay for their usage.
Amount raised, I don’t know, but it will at least give you something to talk about or dislike..
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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They can find the money for everything else under the sun except the roads. Stauber has been on the city council over 10 years…I think its time he was replaced. He makes bold statements to get his name in the paper but has nothing to show for it.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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The City Administration has been living beyond it’s means for a long time. By convincing the legislature to bend the rules for Duluth to remain a city classified as a “City of the First Class” (reserved for cities over 100,000 in population) when in fact our population is only about 86,000 is a formula for disaster. A “First Class” city with its larger population can afford a high level of bonding. Duluth with a lower population, and a disproportionate number of those being in poverty, cannot collect enough taxes to cover it’ s lavish spending. It is like giving a welfare queen a credit card with a $60,000 credit limit…eventually they will get spent into unrecoverable debt, which is where Duluth is. Duluth cannot spend in a manner of a “First Class” city because our population just cannot pay all those debts. Duluth needs to face reality and spend like the city it is and not the city it was and wishes it still is. Time to cut spending dramatically.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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I agree….we are going to have to pare down spending……to less than the income side of the budget…..to make on-going repairs and maintenance. The City, once they started receiving money from the casino….banked on that money to repair streets ( still a very shoddy job of it ), and proceeded to spend the money they should have been placing into street maint. as well……so, they either have to cut spending on other things….or, increase taxes…..again! Keep in mind, all of this has been severely mis-managed….as they run things around here like having a large credit limit….with only a small revenue stream to pay for the large credit line….as they will spend it if it is available to them. We are over-staffed in several areas……and spending habits for services, supplies etc…..are not scrutinized enough……not enough bang for the buck! To make it worse…..they had not paid into the medical / retirement funds when they should have all along…..further exasurbating the problem….as they still have to pay for that as well as their bonding debts and all other expenses. Bottom line…..they still spend with not enough in-site into where the revenue is going to come from! C’mon councilors and Mr Ness….try to start giving a little incentive to bring in some business……no more hotel / fast food / and all these other low-pay jobs around here! How do you expect to raise enough cash to pay for your spending habits …..without some decent business / jobs / to increase the population of TAX-PAYERS around here! Quit trying to raise taxes on those who work dead-end , low-paying jobs….quite a few around here! Spending has got to be in line with revenue…….no more feel-good stuff till conditions are better ( much better ) around here!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Duluth has found money for…
Transit center
New parking ramp for Maurices
NorShor theatre
Aquarium
Decc arena
Vech village
Lakewalk…all the way out to Lester
Seven bridges road
Spirit Mountain
Wade Stadium
Canal Park
A study on high speed rail
Skywalk system
A new police headquarters
Brick streets and sidewalks for the tourists
Storage tanks for sewage
Parking ramp & skywalk for Sheraton/St Marys
New water & gas utility headquarters
**the list could go on and on…
But yet we have let our streets and utilities crumble…..
For sure we need to reduce spending and get our priorities straight. I don’t think we should rush to decide what to do with the streets…this is a long term plan. Lets not get ourselves into another Red Plan.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Ulysses, I totally agree, as long as by cutting spending you are also willing to cut your own expectations. You can’t run the city on 10 people and expect perfect roads, massive bridges, and a fresh new frontage road for every little strip mall and cul-du-sac. We are basically advocating for the same thing: living within our means. To me, that means that the backwoods should feel like backwoods – dirt roads and limited utilities. It’s not living within your means if every Joe Swampland off of Arrowhead Rd gets all the same accommodations as people who choose to live in civilization.
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Merv: Again we agree on an issue. The City could very easily limit the suburban sprawl by imposing a mandate of no residential construction except where there is an already existing sewer connection. Think about it. No more ridiculous subdivisions. Existing decrepit properties would be rehabed or replaced. Personally, I wouldn’t care if my street was dirt, (which it was until just a few years ago) if the city would run a grader down it periodically. I have no need for fancy pavement, besides a paved street typically raises your taxes.
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I’m surprised, yet I completely agree with your mandate idea. See, I think there is a whole world of debate that is left untouched because our media serve to distract us from constructive discussion. Perhaps instead of looking at everything as Democrats and Republicans, we can look at it more broadly as fiscal conservatives and libertarian socialists… Or better yet, as people with common problems.
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Now you understand why I strongly object to being pigeon-holed as a Republican. I am a fiscal conservative and as a businessman, a stake-holder in the future of this City. I want what is best for this City meaning constructive growth and decent wage jobs for all who want them. Neither will happen as long as this City continues to circle the drain fiscally and its steady decline into a rust-belt ghetto City.
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I think our main disagreement is *why* Duluth has become, in your words, a rust-belt ghetto city. Your stance is that it’s the failure of local government – that’s fine. My stance is that big-businessmen, much more powerful than yourself who you shouldn’t even relate yourself to, have made a huge disinvestment in America by sending manufacturing overseas. And the federal government, which should have stopped this, has done just the opposite and promoted it. City governments like Duluth’s have been caught in the crossfire. It’s called an externality – a deal between two parties that negatively impacts a third party, in this case local governments and subsequently local businessmen like yourself. Externalities are one of the biggest inefficiencies in our current economic system.
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Merv: Again we agree. I am just a simple little landlord with a few hundred tenants, so yes in comparison to those businessmen who have done damage to our country, I am indeed “small potoatos”. However I am smart enough to fight those battles that I have a chance to win. I agree us little people have no influence over the actiona of internation businesses…but we can have an influence over local government and the associated waste that local politicians promote due to their own agendas. Merv: Fight the good fight but pick and choose your battles. Be well.
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truth,
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Obviously the streets need to be taken care of; in this freeze and thaw environment they have many problems. But some of us simply cannot afford to pay more, and not because of laziness when it take 2 or 3 jobs just to keep up now.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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1. What are they going to do with the millions in flood aid, as many streets were damaged by the flood. How will that windfall affect this calculation?
2. Rasing taxes 5.5% raises 1 million while laying off 65 would save 4 million? I wouldn’t agree to one without compromise with the other.
3. Consolidating police and fire departments doesnt mean they would ride together, it just means we could get rid of half the desk jockey managers/supervisors draining the treasury.
4. A city in dire financial straits puts streets, safety, and utilities as its first priority . Everything else is extra. I think all of us could find at least one expense or department that does not serve these purposes. We need to trim some fat.
5. Yeah, we got screwed in the casino situation, guess a “forked tongue” works both ways (ah, the irony). It does show, however, how much the city has lived beyond its means, as no other city had a deal such as this and are in less dire financial straits.
6. When the majority of a city is low income or students, there is little tax base to collect revenue. All raising taxes is going to do is force me to move outside of the city and raise the rent on my duplex in the city. If major companies can move to the Caymans, I can move to Cromwell.
Sorry about the rant, but most people have quietly been reducing their expenses due to the economy, while the city hasnt really felt any impact yet. Fix the streets, then fix the NorShor.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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On point 6: Students and renters who blithley vote for tax increases or increases in city spending should remember that no professional landlord is going to eat the increase. Any increase in taxes or City fees of any kind just get passed on to the tenants. That is the nature of “Staying in Business” and it amazes me at how ignorant most renters are of that fact. Vote for any increase and you are voting for an increase in your rent. It’s not rocket science.
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thats news to me ive been renting for 10 years and have never ever once been asked to pay more in rent by my landlord…just because you are greedy doesnt mean all landlords are. If a place is a dump and the landlords property taxes increase he is not going to raise his rent prices because no one can afford to pay the increased rent so he wont get anyone in his rental. Rent prices still follow supply and demand….people demand a decent apt at a decent rent if you cant provide that they will look for someone who can…and 100 renters is a lot my friend that equates to at least 20 houses…my landlord tells me you have to get to about 15 properties for it to be your sole source of income…that tells me you with your 20 houses can afford any tax increase without having to try and pass that on to renters in increased rental prices.
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John Q …I’m not saying that we shouldn’t look at saving money. However…Duluth just built a new police headquarters to the tune of 18 million. This at a time when we have all kinds of empty school buildings being sold off for a dollar. People in the DFL love to get on a soap box a preach about green this and sustainable that. Why not take an existing building and renovate? We should go green and recycle ??? Urban sprawl?? The city contributed to that by building the police station out in the sticks. Ok…back to my main point….if you consolidate the police and fire you would have to relocate the fire department up over the hill to the law enforcement facility. This means millions more to add onto the city/county law megaplex. Why is this megaplex located in that area anyway? Why isn’t it located in a high crime area? Anywho….you read this article on the streets. Stauber says we need to cut city staff big time. He has no trouble inventing the smoking ban for the lakewalk. So how are we going to enforce a ban with fewer staff? They can come up with solutions to problems we really dont have like smoking by the lake. But the streets?
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our avenue was severely impacted by the flood. It was awful before the flood. The city has done the cheapo fix of filling in massive damage, with cold patch. They’ve been “fixing” it that way for these 3 yrs we lived at this address…..cars jingle and jangle going past…..city bus drives too quickly to be affected….ugh. We’ve lived here not quite four years….( in Duluth, after 25 yrs away ) and are APALLED at the whole apathy, money for arts and paths, but roads are horrible, and the decline in hard work ethic, good old boy government.
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Why don’t we start with not putting down so much freaking rock salt when it snows an inch? I realize we live on a hill but it is ridiculous, not to mention horrible for our streams and lakes.
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