In labor disputes, management’s leverage on the rise
September 30, 2012 at 4:00 am in Grand Forks Herald
Once upon a time, the notion of booting employees off the job in a lockout was so rare it was closer to myth than reality, according to UND business professor Bruce Byars. Today, the tactic is a well-honed weapon in the corporate arsenal, readily deployed against everyone from sugar beet processors to professional hockey players. Continue Reading
Leverage…. and that is why the Union at Crystal is failing and will continue to fail. They are to stupid to see that right now they do NOT have any leverage, NONE. That will change in the future but it is likely the Union will no longer be a part of Crystals labor force by then. Maybe it is not to late for the Union members at Crystal to see this…….. but I doubt they will.
Union Member
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Correct. Could not agree more.
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The 2012 beet crop is not processed yet. Just getting started.
As the saying goes: The harvest is not done until it is in the bin.
In this case, the harvest is not done, until all the 2012 sugar beet crop is processed.
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“They are to stupid….” could have been left out of your comment. You would have still been able to get your point across. The union gets beaten up when they make a thoughtless cruel remark but everybody else gets a free pass in the name-calling catagory.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Just wondering if you noticed Glen is union devilschild?
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I noticed that. It doesn’t pass as an excuse. Why don’t you men grow up a little? Most of you are in your 50′s if not older.
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Good article.
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That is a pretty bold statement Schurk, saying that mgmt is a one person show with all falling in line while the union decisions are made with each individual member having an input. Listening to comments like yours are like listening to the Rep/Dem debate, your so one sided you are unable to be rational. As a firm ACSC supporter, I am smart enough to know there probably is a point or two where they are digging thier heals is to make a point and, from my viewpoint, the union is digging thier heals in to prove a national point that you do not mess with a union.
Here is something that most people do not understand. When you work for someone, the money does not magically appear and employees are not entitled to a raise every year. In ACSC case, yes, the company and the growers have done very well the past number of years, but that does not mean it is always going to be the case. The sugar market is no different than any other market, it will go up but it will certainly come back down. Even with the argument that the Sugar Program keeps the company rich, I seem to remember $40/ton not too long ago with the union in the factory. Everyone always thinks they are smarter than thier boss and they deserve more money. If everyone was given what they felt they were worth, there would be no jobs because no business would be able to survive. GM was a great example of what happens when you give into union demands time and time again.
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The unions were able to get pay and benefits that the company was not able to sustain long term and it caught up with them. I am not saying that GM executives deserve the pay they recieve or are currently recieveing. The auto workers bargained themselves right out of work. It’s a balance and unions need to realize that. To be honest with you, I do not have enough knowledge to say if it was or was not the right decision for the gov’t to bail out GM and the banking industry. But, from a ethical standpoint, I am very upset that nobody was held accountable for poor decision making and the greed that caused it. Both union and non union people created that mess and neither takes responsibility.
To tie it back w ACS, I firmly believe that there are companies that will take advantages of workers. I truly believe the deal offered by ACS is a fair contract with positive gains for these folks. Make a stand where a stand needs to be taken, don’t do it to simply try and flex muscle.
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Ah again the myth that Ford dd not borrow money from the government. I would say a $5.9 billion loan is a loan. Though they did ask for a $9 billion line of credit from the government. http://www.factcheck.org/2011/09/ford-motor-co-does-u-turn-on-bailouts/
Hot debate. What do you think?
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jack here is what happened and its out of that article. Its not that they were in trouble.
“Ford did not receive any money under The Automotive Industry Financing Program, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t get any federal assistance”.
” The Department of Energy announced it would provide $5.9 billion to Ford “to transform factories across Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, and Ohio to produce 13 more fuel efficient models.”
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It is just as easy to get the union side aligned. The union leaders tell the workers how to vote, and they do it. End of story.
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Meanwhile, the leaders collect they 6-figure salaries while the rank and file go on welfare.
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Thats part of the problem. Suggestions from the Union leaders on how to vote.
In past contract negotiations, Union leades have suggested when nothing better could be had. That point has been reached. Yet Union leadership continues to give the locked out workers hope when there is none.
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“Management has all the inherent advantages”
Hilarious.
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Unions killed the golden goose. Now companies flee to right to work states or out of the country. MMM won’t build in MN. CAT has dumped IL. Boeing went to SC. Those are just 3 examples.
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Indeed this biz prof nails it, but then again, anyone with an IQ over room-temp should know this.
Just a matter of time before ‘public’ unions get the message and we’ll all be better off.
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Except the situation is different with public sector unions. Management is now elected by the public, including the workers, their families, their friends, etc. Management of government entities (in in USA) will never be as strong and able to stay focused as that of industry. BTW: That isn’t all that bad, as I’m not suggesting we move to more of a dictator government model. I think ACSC management would be acting differently if they were up for an election of all residents in the RRV.
Government management will concede to the union demands much quicker and easier than in the industry. I wonder if the rise of public unions isn’t leading, in part, to the decline of private unions. Both parties are choosing to fight the fight that is most winnable.
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Fair assumptions Mike S, but I think basic economics is ultimately going to rule here.
All we have to do is look at a fiscally broke USA including a growing list of states like CA,IL, NY, NV to name a few.
Public unions will not last long-term, the taxpayers will see to that.
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I’d like to believe you. The history of taxpayers or voters (they are not one and the same) standing up to do the right thing to get our fiscal house in order is not encouraging. We want to have our cake and eat it to and we’ve gotten quite good at it. Actually it is our kids and grandkids cake that we are eating.
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Does not hold true of public employee unions in all states. In a right to work state like North Dakota public employees can NOT strike and not all are required to join a union.
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“He attributed part of the change to the current makeup of the National Labor Relations Board, a key governing body in labor disputes. The board is appointed by the president, and the board is currently heavy on members appointed by Republican administrations that tend to favor management over unions.”
This statement struck me as odd, considering it is 180 degrees oppossed to what Fox News said about the very same subject. According to Fox the NLRB was so liberal and pro union it is amazing free enterprise as an economic system still exists.
I wonder where the truth lyes (lies)?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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The NLRB tried to stop Boeing from opening a plant in SC. So the idea they are pro-business is inane. More likely the author is pro-union.
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In reference to all of the Byars quotes:
I’m not sure how I feel about a “practicing labor lawyer” who seems to be obviously pro-organized labor….teaching our kids business courses at UND.
Or….have I misinterpreted?
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You lost me. You would rather a corporate hack?
Every professor has an opinion. The question is do they present both sides.
My airline labor relations prof was a former pilot and a national officer in the pilot’s union. He was fantastic. When he described what actually happened during negotiations, you could trust what he said.
He made no bones about where he stood. He also went WAY out of his way to bring in management’s side. We had speakers from both sides of the table to explain the process.
It is not the personal view that is important; it is whether they admit it up front and do their best to show both sides of the coin.
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FN,
You must know it’s all up to the prof. Back when I was an undergrad, you learned which ones wanted their opinion vomited back up on papers and exams. I recall one in particular in Poli Sci who wore a “McGovern for President” button prominently. No doubt what he expected from students.
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“You lost me. You would rather a corporate hack?”
No….never said that. This is what I’m talking about…a quote from Mr. Byars himself:
“In the case of the NFL officials, that meant blunders that played out in a very public stage. Behind closed doors, Byars said, American Crystal “basically ran into the same problem” – less efficient processing, more accidents, more fires and lower profits as a consequence. ”
So Mr. Byars, (the business professor), is giving examples of how less-experienced workers are inferior to experienced workers. How much business experience does he have? I don’t know…the article doesn’t say, and I can’t find anything on his online bio other than his education information. And…he’s pro-labor. How many business experts do you know personally that are pro-labor….and have no actual experience running a business?
So yeah….unless I see some business-OPERATING experience listed, I’ll stick to what I posted. A pro-labor, practicing labor lawyer….teaching kids about business.
I can’t think of two bigger strikes against someone teaching kids about BUSINESS than being pro-labor AND being an attorney that sounds like they specialize in the field.
By all means, correct me if I’m wrong about the whole lack of business experience thing, BUT….read Mr. Byars’ quotes again and ask yourself if he SOUNDS like he presents “both sides”. To me…he doesn’t.
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I am not discounting your thoughts – simply turning them back on you; playing the devil’s advocate. Your belief that being pro labor (if you read the ACS boards my views are pretty clear) disqualifies you to teach business by necessity means you believe business professors should be anti labor. I question that reasoning.
I go back to what I said about owning up to your own prejudices & presenting both sides.
A corporate hack spewing the party line has no academic or business value.
Every successful business beyond sole proprietor shops rely on their employees. To say you are anti labor means you are anti profit.
By the way I sold my business for a profit afte,r 5 years. Anyone who thinks that us vs them (labor vs management) is the way to run a business is destined for failure.
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” Your belief that being pro labor (if you read the ACS boards my views are pretty clear) disqualifies you to teach business by necessity means you believe business professors should be anti labor.”
That “sums up” my point a little too much. I don’t think a business professor should be disqualified from teaching JUST because they happen to be pro *this* or *that*. But…you’re not JUST pro *this* or *that* if you’ve taken it to the level at which you specialize in it. A person can have opinions or leanings on any given topic, and therefore be considered “pro-something” or “anti-something”. If their profession involves being for/against/defending/supporting/etc. whatever it is we’re talking about, that “pro-something” or “anti-something” isn’t MERELY an opinion any more….is it?
I’ll ask again…do his comments on this article’s topics lead you to believe he would fairly and accurately deliver both sides? I still say no.
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I never had him as a prof so I can’t speak from experience. In general, the syllabi (or syllabus, I can never remember the correct term) pretty much forces you to teach both sides. Otherwise you are correct: the course becomes to specialized to be useful.
I would refer you back to my airline labor relations prof. A national union officer who did a very good job of making sure we heard the other side of the story. I would hope this prof does the same.
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How can you criticize Mr. Byars for stating his opinion when you have been doing the same thing for several months?
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Read my original post. I didn’t criticize him for having or stating an opinion. I said I didn’t know how I felt about someone who’s a practicing labor lawyer, and obviously pro-organized labor….teaching our kids about business. I then went on to say I didn’t find any actual business operating experience in his bio in a later post.
Please show me where I said he couldn’t have or state an opinion.
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Scott, tell us how you really feel about anyone who doesn’t own their own buisness.
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I have never met a professor who would not welcome an opinion that differs from his. College is an environment that encourages independent thought and developing ways to exress your opinion. As long as you present your argument in a respectful and well put together manner I do not see where it would not be welcome.
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Ron, I graduated from UND 5 years ago and I can assure you I had profs that were convinced that thier opinion was right way, no matter what respectful argument you had. I also had profs that were wonderful and brought real life expierences to the classroom. Majoring in Mgmt, one of the best profs I had shared quite often his expierences in the retail business world, one of his biggest complaints was the difficulty of firing employees who would not perform. Even whithout a union to go to bat for you, employees have a ton of rights and the gov’t (state and fed) are right there to enforce any law they can.
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Ron…these employees have been paid well for every hour they worked, so what does the company continue to “owe” them? There are people that are willing to work and those that believe the company “owes” them a job forever.
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Before I started my own business, I never believed my employer owed me anything. We had a contract, I provided them the best possible results that I could based on the training I received for a negotiated wage. It has never been, nor should it ever be anything more than that… If I wasn’t happy with the negotiated contract I would try for a better position by letting my bosses know at review time all of the benefits that I personally brought to their organization. If we didn’t see eye to eye, it was my right as an American Citizen to move on and find another line of work. I did this several times in my life until I finally decided that I was worth more than what they would pay me..
I put my whole life on the line, and still do every day.. It is my credit report that give the company its line of credit, it is my belongings that will go up for sale if the company busts.. Not any of my employees. They would be out of a job that is true, but they won’t be into a bank for more money than most people earn in a life time.
People, this is capitalism not Marxism.
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It’s business. This is why I don’t take this personal. This weekend I was drinking a beer with my cousin’s husband after a funeral. His cellphone rang. It was Crystal Sugar calling to tell him he could start digging beets again at noon on Monday. He’s a farmer on the East Side. The timing made us laugh. “It’s just business.” I told him. I’m not losing family over this.
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They owe them the compensation the 2 parties agreed upon in the past. There is 0 presedence for a cut in compensation at american crystal sugar. All I hear is a bunch of b.s. arguments. I haven’t received a raise in years. Get a new job in a better industry. It is the nature of buisness now days the economy is terrible. Not in ag producing states and agriculture industries they are thriving. Healthcare costs are rising and I pay for my health insurance so they should also. The biggest crock of b.s. out there. Get a job with better benefits and don’t be jealous of others. The “cadillac plan” increases have been put on the
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“They owe them the compensation the 2 parties agreed upon in the past”
Remember back when I posed one of my many “Ron Enterprises” questions/scenarios to you, and asked what you as CEO would do if something along your business’s journey changed….which then led you to believe it was time to re-evaluate some things and perhaps “rein in” this or that?
You never answered then, perhaps you’d like to take a stab at it now.
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“Cadillac plan fees” have been put on the backburner and would not be put into effect until after a review and after the contract under dispute expires! The whole contract dispute is pure company greed they would not have been able to do this lockout without the help of strom who’s sole purpose is to enable the employer to lockout its employees or lengthen strikes. Now tell me again how these employees are greedy and should just be happy to have a job. There was 0 incentive to sign a contract when all it does is take away your benefits while the compnay goes and hires scabs before they even lock you out. The union did the right thing and should never sign that contract. American crystal can move on and the employees can find work elsewhere.
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Like the article said…In tough economic times its easier to have the upper hand because there’s an abundance of replacement workers………The should take head to a verse in a Little Feat song: “The same dudes you misuse on your way up……You’re going to meet on your way back down”. And those memories will last in all these situations. You know the old saying about pay back…..
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Keep fishing scott.
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What is “little feat” song?
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“On your way down”. The best version is on “Waiting For Columbus” which I consider to be one of the best live albums ever….Especially since the digitalized it a few years ago. I saw them in Phoenix years ago, and they’re one band who’s studio albums doesn’t give them justice… Definitely best live…just like the original Allman Brothers were.
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Now that’s a hater…..”How dare he ask him a question when he said something that seemed pro all unions in general.” Now that’s some really thin skin eh?
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LOL……I just got it…..You never heard of the band Little Feat. Oh well……now you know where to find the bet version of the song. Check them out. Damn good rock from back in the days when concerts were done with musicians who could really jam.
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