Minnesota voter ID opponents call it costly, unnecessary
September 29, 2012 at 7:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
Most of the argument about whether Minnesota should require separate photo ID cards for people to vote has focused on how much voter fraud occurs in the state.
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At the risk of appearing to be unbiased and objective, maybe the News Tribune could run a story about supporters of the amendment next time and just throw in a comment or two from opponents to make it look fair. I realize that DNT types might find it a bit disorienting to give both sides of an issue equal time, but give it a shot.
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Or maybe the supporters are so badly in the wrong to be taken seriously by any unbiased and objective journalist. Just because you think you have a point, which happens to be fully financed by the Mudoch media empire, doesn’t mean that everybody is required to meet you 50/50 on it.
According to a New York University study, as many as 11% of Americans, or 34,000,000 people, live their lives without an up-to-date photo ID. Yet, there have only been 53 convictions of voter fraud in all elections in the past five years. That’s 0.000017%! This legislation is clearly meant to disenfranchise people. You’re looking for something that doesn’t exist in order to support a very specific agenda. You make a better follower than a thinker, DanH.
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And when did it become the media’s job to pick sides and only report one side of an issue? It’s a mindset that permeates the News Tribune and has for years, which is probably why very few take them seriously on anything and even fewer buy their newspaper.
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You are seriously mistaken if you don’t think the one-sided media is totally on your side. You get 24/7 Fox News, 24/7 talk radio time, all across the nation. The most that progressives have is the establishment left, which hardly ever goes beyond petty social issues.
Again, just because your “side” is completely ridiculous and chooses to ignore the facts, it doesn’t mean that all the media need to spend half of their resources ignoring the facts just to appease you.
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“Ritchie said the amendment will cost millions of dollars to implement statewide, a cost borne mostly by property owners in townships and counties, as those local governments have to buy new computer equipment to issue and verify the cards.
Ritchie estimates it will cost $40 million to $60 million across the state to adopt the new ID system, and an additional $10 million to $20 million each election to run it — mostly the cost of new computer software that will be updated to match photos with addresses.”
I vote in the Duluth Heights area. The grandmas working there had three binders where they would verify your name and address. So now, all of sudden the grandmas are going to have to learn a computer system. Instead of using the old system of paper, and just saying “May I see your ID please.”
I also agree with Dan, the DNT needs to run another article about the supporters of this amendment, but you know they won’t.
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Richie is a verifiable liar.
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In Dan McGrath’s world, words mean what he wants them to mean. The only reason I would vote for this amendment would be to get a FREE id card as my current id is expired and I don’t care to pay $16 for a new one.
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If there was a case for having a voter id then maybe just maybe I could support it. But as of yet I have not heard one. On the presumtion to stop voter fraud is not good enough for me especially in a state that prides itself in clean politics. The Republicans talk about wasteful government spending well this seems to be a case in point sponsored by them.
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Must not have heard of Al Franken…
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Mark Ritchie is a political hack. His campaign has been funded by George Soros. His job is to oversee a fair election. If obtaining a valid ID requires that we don’t have dead people voting or people voting twice then it is well worth any tax dollars needed. It is a person’s own responsibility to do what is neededlike, get up in the morning, to buy a car, buy a house, get educated for a better job,so why is it not a person’s responsibility to obtain an ID so they can vote. Let’s stop making people into a society of “oh poor me’s”. This issue is a no brainer,that’s why it will pass easily. I will be happy to volunteer to drive anyone to pick up their free ID.
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After Gore’s 2000 loss in Florida, ACORN determined that they were chasing the wrong offices. They realized that the state Secretary’s of State offices were the most important offices to hold, since they were ultimately responsible for counting the votes. And true to Uncle Joe’s statement, That’s what they set out to do.
“It’s not who votes that counts, it’s who counts the votes” Josef Stalin
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People can’t afford to eat, but they should have to pay to vote. You are sick, sick person, Don. I pray that you are never in a situation where you’re living paycheck-to-paycheck and struggling to pay for the basic necessities.
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Anybody who wants to institute a poll tax to prevent the lower-class from voting IS sick. This is a democracy, not a aristocracy. I suppose Don would be happy if we could just go back to times when only white, male, land-owning males could vote, because the people with the most money in our society must be the smartest as well.
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That is a lie. There is no poll tax. There is no racism in this. You are hysterical.
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Notice, Don called it a fee, not a tax. There is a difference. We tax….errrr…I mean put a fee on almost everything now, so we might as well put a ta….I mean fee on this also.
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Don~ OMG….So advocating bringing back poll taxes! How about let’s bring back intelligence tests also? Let’s just ignore the fact that people died, risked their lives, were beat, threatened and intimidated, had Police dogs attack them, firehoses turned on them and were jailed standing up for their right to vote. Let’s just undo all that….and ignore the brave people that put it on the line to defend their right to vote and ignore WHY we had to have the 1965 Voting Right Act….it was because of exactly this same time of nonsense by conservatives…
http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/voting-rights-act-2.jpg
To abridge or infringe on our most basic right of voting is to then support the very demise of all we stand for and have fought for. The GOP is attempting to do what no terrorist group could ever accomplish, that is the taking down of America. Terrorists can only attack our buildings and kill Americans, but America is an ideal and principle that they can’t touch and is greater then the sum of our structures and people. It’s very foundation is, for the people, by the people. What the GOP wants is to accomplish is to dillute and aid in the demise of that principle and foundation by making sure that it’s no longer a country by all the people.
There is no voter fraud impacting the integrity of our elections. There is an agenda though by the GOP to impact the integrity of our elections.
“A government that undermines the very foundation of its existence – the people’s inherent, pre-constitutional right to vote – imperils its legitimacy as a government by the people, for the people, and especially of the people,” Dane County Circuit Judge Richard Niess wrote. “It sows the seeds for its own demise as a democratic institution. This is precisely what 2011 Wisconsin Act 23 does with its photo ID mandates.”
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Tom, have you looked at America lately? We’re the most obese country in the world! Nobody is starving here!
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Don Raihala said:
“Let the voters pay for it.”
A better idea would be to let those people that think this is such a great idea pay for it.
Once they figure out what the total cost is going to be, we could just assess a fee to everyone that voted for it.
Much fairer way of doing it.
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With that logic Katydid we should only make the supporters of ObummaCare pay that too.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93AAtoWemE8
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fake and boring. Stop wasting everyone’s time.
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Speaking of fake, Don, why has nobody been able to ever prove a case of voter fraud in Minnesota, despite the monetary rewards that have been offered to anyone who can do so?
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I love it when lozer liberals like yourself use such definite language when you make your points. Really Tom, never never ever has there ever been a case of voter fraud? From your own playbook: If just ‘One’ voter is disenfrancised by an unqualified voter, then it is worth it.
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60 cases just last year. Do your research!
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If I am a student at UMD living in student housing with a student ID I can vote in MN right..?
My hometown is Superior WI., and I have a WI drivers license, can I not also vote in WI..?
Who would know but me right?
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Is there anything in the voter ID law that would change anything about that situation?
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Bob you can only be registered in one location so no, you cannot vote in both states.
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Bob could vote here if he registered, and still vote in via absentee ballot in Superior. Under current law, nobody would check. This is exactly what a Democratic congressional candidate did in Maryland and Florida in the 2004 and 2008 general elections. AND SHE ADMITTED IT!
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im wondering what the cost to vote will be 20 years…. if it will increase higher than inflation like medical costs or stay the same (i highly doubt it will decrease or stay the same honestly). As you conservatives always gripe about i need to know now how much my vote will cost me for the next 20 years so i can invest wisely enough to be able to vote. And to those who say it wont cost us anything actually if tax money is used to purchase ids that is costing us ALL
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The libs constantly use the argument that voter fraud doesn’t exist, or it only exists in small numbers. The fact is, the system is flawed enough that we don’t have the measurement mechanism or processes in place to prove or disprove it. Let’s use the simple radar gun metaphor that someone so eloquently brought up last week. If we had no radar guns, it would be a heck of a lot harder to prove that people still exceeded the speed limit. In terms of voter fraud, we have no radar guns…..an I.D. requirement is the radar gun. (The lovely little old ladies at the polls are NOT radar guns, and I’m sorry but it would be extremely easy to pull the wool over their eyes and vote illegally) And YES my liberal friends….supporters of voter I.D. also believe, just like you, that voting is one of our basic and most important rights, and that is precisely why we want to PROTECT IT. Libs want the government to provide us with everything under the sun….., yet a little voter I.D. card is just too ridiculous to ask for? Come on, get real. Even if you can’t admit that voter fraud might possibly be a problem….you have to admit that the system is set up poorly enough to allow voter fraud to go undetected.
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kperks, your points are very similar to the points I’ve always made with regards to this issue. Whether you support voter id or not, I’d think you’d have to admit that without any mechanism to measure the amount or lack thereof of voter fraud….how do you really know what is taking place ?
If stores didn’t ask for photo ID on checks….do you think we’d have more or less bad checks written ? If we didn’t have weight scales, would obesity cease to be a problem ? The healthy height/weight tables would be meaningless without a mechanism to objectively measure your weight wouldn’t they ? Without police radar guns, do you think we’d have less speeders or more ? My guess is we’d have more speeders, but less speeding tickets issued….can anyone disagree with that ?
Believe it or not….after saying all of that, I’m actually leaning towards voting against voter id although my initial thought was to support it. But, I want to go into the voting booth with my eyes wide open on the issue after having considered both sides…..not just dismissing one side or the other since it didn’t fit with my own personal paradigm of thought or partisian feelings.
We have one side claiming there is virtually no voter fraud and the other side seemingly thinking it may well be wide spread…..when the truth is probably in between these two extremes somewhere.
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There are methods of detecting voter impersonation fraud (the only kind of fraud an ID affects). For example, authentic voter goes to vote, but the poll worker says someone already signed that line on the voter roll. Has that ever happened? It can also be detected by comparing the roll of those who voted to death records to see if someone voted in place of a recently passed, registered voter. There are other methods also already in place, upon which advocates of voter ID should educate themselves. Moreover, how many people are going to risk a felony conviction just to cast an extra vote that – even in the closest of races – will never make a difference?
It seems clear that the amendment will get passed and the myriad details left for future legislators will then become the battleground. Since those in favor of this amendment have repeatedly and (I will assume) sincerely said this is not about disenfranchisement, I expect to see 100% bipartisan support for the efforts to ensure that everyone gets the required ID. This should include mobile registration offices dispatched to rural, inner city, and suburbs, nursing homes, hospitals, colleges, etc., inter-state assistance and payment for any support documents required (such as birth certificates), as well as a broad based educational campaign so that everyone gets the word on what will be required and how to get it. I wonder what Mr. McGrath’s position on that would be.
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I agree. First start by determining if the voter plans on voting DFL, then ask for photo ID. In case you haven’t noticed, It’s the libs that are opposed to running clean elections, not the conservatives. So it goes to reason that liberal voters are more predisposed to voting fraudulently. If the Left had cleaned up their own house first, we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion.
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Hugh J…..not disputing you, as I generally agree with your thoughts……BUT, why would the sign-in folks need to know whether you were going to vote Dem or Repub? I think that decision is up to the individual voter only….and only that voter……there is no way for the voting machine to know the person’s name that cast that individual ballot……as registered Dems or Repubs can change their voting preferences at any time!
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Vern, determining if a voter planned on voting DFL was sarcasm. Sorry for the confusion.
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kperks…..well put, my sentiments as well! Our system is far from perfect…..just too many loopholes! Do not like the idea of “ballot counters” always “finding” another uncounted box of ballots….that always “seem” to be disproportionate……like 80-90% of the box total…..being for “usually” Liberal candidates…..just seems way too fishy…..and this always seems to happen in a very tight vote……we need to put a lid on this type of “process”……as they call it! Nothing at all wrong about requiring a photo ID when voting…..actually, they should try a bar code scan of your ID……so it feeds into a database….so this same voter cannot vote in another precinct or like, Duluth, Mn…..and Superior, Wisc…..or in the case of college students…..Duluth…..and say, Mankato, Mn…..or another state, where they are registered! Information into a database should dis-allow ANY person from voting twice….or it would also stop a person that was already deceased…..from voting…..LOL!
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The GOP has been repeating this nonsense about voter fraud now for so long that the Republican base not exactly known for their ability to grasp basic concepts, hearing it enough all of sudden start believing, well, it must be true. Now have seen repeated several times for arguments supporting infringing on our voter rights that we can’t prove that there is voter fraud is the proof that it must exist because we don’t have a photo ID requirement. The only solid argument that Republicans have made is actually that we should require them to take an intelligence test to keep their voting rights. No greater example of that then the notion now held by many Republicans actually convinced that dead people are coming back from the grave to vote. Like voter fraud,it’s merely contrived nonsense, and despite the blatantly obvious impossibility of dead people coming back to vote, and despite the fact that it hasn’t been proven to happen and that every twisted instance used to support this nonsense been proven not just false but a lie, it hasn’t been able to derail the belief of many Republicans that dead people are actually voting.
The only facts we have regarding voter fraud, is that there is no proof of voter fraud…and that it doesn’t exist. Nobody has been able to prove otherwise.
1- Nobody can support their arguments, provide proof of voter fraud or show any reason whatsoever that Voter ID is even necessary and more importantly, that voter ID would even prevent the conjured up lies of examples of voter fraud.
2- Republicans are not bright enough to even grasp that claiming one has a photo ID is not prove of voter fraud for repeatedly when asked for proof of voter fraud, all one gets from them is a collective parroting of the same nonsensical response that they have a photo ID and everyone should..HUH? Then again, this same group didn’t grasp the concept that having “undeniable proof of WMD” means there’s absolutely not a reason in world to withhold showing that proof. To which one can bet that all conservatives reading that last sentence also all collectively went…HUH?
3- The most important aspect of all this is this..If Karl Rove wanted to convince the Republican base that pigs could fly and that Space Aliens were voting the right wing blogsphere would be drowning in claims of sightings of pigs flying and Faux News would hammer audience every night about conjured up stories of Space Aliens voting and in no time the Republican party would be made of people that believe pigs could fly and Space Aliens were ruining our elections .
“Let’s be blunt and acknowledge the biggest threat to the world’s biggest economy are the cranks and crazies that have taken over the Republican Party,” Australian Deputy PM. Wayne Swan, one of few world leaders able to boast his country had avoided recession during the global financial crisis
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Want to ammend my statement about “no voter fraud” to read, there is no voter fraud that is a threat to the integrity of our elections. I concede that the Minnesota Majority upon sending research teams to go thru court records did find one case of voter fraud in Minnesota and concede that after a 5 year campaign led by Karl Rove and the whitehouse and Attorney General they did find 18 cases of voter fraud that had occured nationally.
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I love you fastone and your progressive attitude that EVERYONE is just too stupid to understand your brilliant intellect! Unfortunately you only read the DNC playbook and left wing talking points without any critical thinking skills. You have too many ridiculous points to argue them all but your last brilliant quote requires some notes:
- “We need to spend our way out of debt” Barack Husein Obama (hows that working for us?)
- “I don’t really know what our national debt is” Barack Husein Obama when asked by David Letterman psst…Its over $16 TRILLION chief!
- Tell me of ANY Republican president who ran up trillion dollar deficits EVERY year of their presidency?
I’d sell you some more Obumma kool-aid since you seem to guzzle it by the gallon but I think it’s illegal to sell it on the street corner now – obviously it would be less than 16 ounces.
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Apparently the voters the Left panders to ARE too stupid. All they seem to want are the freebies the Left promises them, never for a moment asking who’s paying for them.
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LOL! Reminds me of this little diddy: “Give a man a fish….and he eats for a day…..TEACH a man to fish….he eats for a lifetime” “Give a man a welfare check…..food stamps…..section 8 housing……. medicaid……and 104 weeks of unemployment checks…..and he will vote Democrat….for a lifetime”!
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Fox~ Thank you for again showing your inability to stay on point ….you’d do better proving your point and dismissing mine by providing actual proof of voter fraud…without which your little rant is just proving my point….SMH!
Pssst……Republicans economic policies and deregulation is what caused our economic meltdown before Obama was even a nominee…
“Let’s be blunt and acknowledge the biggest threat to the world’s biggest economy are the cranks and crazies that have taken over the Republican Party,” Australian Deputy PM. Wayne Swan, one of few world leaders able to boast his country had avoided recession during the global financial crisis
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The real question is how much it costs, who pays for voter ID’s for people who don’t have one and how hard is it to get one. What are the true administrative costs for a driver’s license (the most common form of ID) and how much would it cost each taxpayer to pay for voter ID’s for those who don’t have one? Further, most of us know how long it takes to renew a driver’s license so how easy would it be to get the voter id?
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Canada is held up by the leftists as a social utopia. Why aren’t they modeling Canadian voter ID laws? Ooops! Canada REQUIRES a photo ID in order to vote. Silly me.
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Silly you is correct. THe rest of your statement false. http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e
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Has anyone else noticed how the Left originally argued that this was a voter disenfranchisement issue, but now that that myth has been thoroughly debunked, it’s now a COST issue? Since when are Democrats worried about spending too much money on helping the poor? Aren’t the poor the same people they pander to every election?? But now they don’t want to spend the money necessary to insure the poor get ID’s and the rest of us get clean elections? No wonder Michael Savage calls Liberalism a mental disorder.
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Wait… how exactly has the disenfranchisement myth been debunked? Near as I can tell, that’s clearly the objective. Also, this illusion that the poor are politically active is an outright fallacy. Poor people are some of the least politically active people in this country. It’s people with money who are being pandered too. Why else would outlets like CNBC market programs like, “Your Money, Your Vote”?
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Thanks for making my point, gurgler.
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What point was that? Has it been opposite day… for the last 5 years straight? You don’t listen, and you live in the radio. Your extremism and the luke-warm moderates it produces are making this country sick. Furthermore, the only reason you can quote your boy Michael Savage is because he’s paid for by ClearChannel which is owned by Bain Capital i.e. Mitt Romney. Think about that for 2 seconds.
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Yawn…I’m sorry. Did you say something of significance?
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Its true that the cost estimates cannot be finalized in part because the legislature would have to work out the details. But the note that went forward with the Voter ID amendment suggested that the cost would be $29 million (mostly from counties). Since then many groups have suggested based on the experiences of other states that the number would likely be much higher. You can find a good report on the various estimates and what would need to be done at http://www.mncounties.org/HHH%20Institute%20Final%20voter%20ID%20report%20AMC.pdf .
In any case, no, its not as simple as “May I see some ID?” in order for it to be legal. Think about it, even that simple action is much more complex than the current method, we will have to recruit and provide training methods for judges to train them on what are valid IDs and how to recognize them, and this training is one of the relatively minor costs.
So, of course this is going to cost a lot of money for it to be legal. You are welcome to argue that it is worth the cost but not that it will not have a significant cost.
As to whether it affects voter turnout and especially certain groups I would think the statement by the PA speaker of their house should be enough proof (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o32tF-S6K60), but if you want more stats check out http://politicalscience.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/workshop-materials/dropp_kyle_ap_workshop.pdf . It DOES negatively affect voter turnout, and especially among groups that traditionally vote Democrat.
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Rick~ Excellent post btw. St. Paul City clerk estimated would cost St. Paul alone about 50 million, which thought was high. Estimates seen on implementing Walkers voter ID, which of course now is tabled, but was 126 million for first year start up.
On point of disenfranchising Democratic voters, that naturally IS THE ONLY POINT, and was Karl Rove’s brainchild and agenda for over 10 years now. He tried and tried, but he couldn’t find enough proof of it either to make a strong enough case of voter fraud to support photo ID’s either, but with Republican sheeple, if you just keep repeating the lies long enough they’ll believe anything. They still think the tax cuts to wealthy creates jobs and helps the economy afterall.
http://500motivators.com/motivate/me/reaganomics-we-told-them-the-wealth-would-trickle-down/
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So we can give a dead beat food stamps, but you’re not willing to pay for his ID?!?
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So you are unwilling to help feed disabled war vets, handicapped people and children, but are willing to waste money ensuring that we destroy our democracy?
Republicans= people that think war is shovel ready jobs.
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I am happy to give all the “deadbeat” seniors, veterans, working poor, children and homeless folks that make up those who receive foodstamps a free id as needed if voter ID passes, but again, since the costs of all this is large for a problem that no one seems to be able to prove exists on a large scale (not voting fraud in general, but voting fraud by impersonation of another person) it seems silly to do so. Even worse, we already have data that indicates voter ID *will* actually disenfranchise voters, so it is not only a costly idea, but one that works *against* its stated goal.
And lets not forget, roughly half of the counties in Minnesota don’t have polling places and instead conduct their voting by mail. To meet the new laws many of these counties will likely have to rent or build buildings to make this whole thing happen (which we will all end up paying for).
So, to recap, its costly and counter-productive. But hey, we like high taxes in Minnesota, don’t we?
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