NCAA: Most logos can stay at the Ralph Engelstad Arena
September 26, 2012 at 5:20 am in Grand Forks Herald
In what’s likely a final round of negotiations over UND’s Fighting Sioux nickname, the NCAA has backed off its demand for wholesale stripping of the historic name and logo from the Ralph Engelstad Arena. Continue Reading
Now all the remaining images can be referred to as the “Fighting Dakota”. As long as a new nickname isn’t chosen they can always be the “Sioux” under the radar. It’s called guerilla warfare. The Sioux were very good @ it.
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While I have often criticized Ralph for his absolute lack of ethics, I have to admit he was brilliant. He bluffed the SBHE out of their jockey shorts. Then he loaded the arena with so many logos you’d have to tear the place down to get rid of them.
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Get back to hosting championship games….and move on.
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That is the thing TJ. This was a tempest in a tea pot. We host post season play but no championship (other than WCAA and regional) games. The Ralph is a masterpiece but you will always end up in MNPLS or someplace similar for the frozen four because of seating.
If UND wanted they could use the Alerus, but that would be very expensive.
We can host post season, but we were never slotted for the Frozen Four
Hot debate. What do you think?
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How exactly can the Alerus provide a rink?
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Flood the floor…turn off the heat.
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Well, if the turn off the heat, maybe there won’t be as much red ink that month.
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Gene, the original proposal was for the Alerus to have ice as well as a FB field & BB court, thus the movable seats to be configured around the 3 dimensions of the 3 sports.
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Of course the Ralph changed the need for ice @ the Alerus. The Ice Capades or Holiday On Ice can still put down a portable ice making system in the Alerus that they travel with.
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Might also add that the tournament games are all off-campus neutral sites. Which why they play at the Target center and not the Mariucci.
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And divisional championship games are held where?
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Divisional playoff games are at the league’s higher seeded team’s home site, like Englestad or the football’s Alerus has been more often than not.
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Thank you spearman. I win….again.
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That was never the issue FN. The NCAA went to 18,000+ seat arenas a long time ago.
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Just drop the GD puck!
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Amen!! Perhaps the NHL will continue the lock out and we can get some WCHA hockey on the NHL channel. It would probably outdraw the NHL except for Stanley Cup finals!
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Who is the NCAA to tell private owners what they can and cant have in there building. Whether I agree with the Nickname retirment or not. Ralphs family owns it.
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They can’t tell the owners what to do. They can tell a member team not to play there.
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It is not the owners, it is the schools. The NCAA could care less if the Ralph is full every weekend or sits dormant. That is not their pervue. They simply deal with the schools. It is up to the school to decide where to play.
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There’s the latest rub in the issue that nickname opponents do not acknowledge. Spirit lake could easily decide to sue again, over their right to demonstrate and place logos at this facility, which is not owned by UND.
The remaining logos are now effectively shrines for nickname supporters as well.
The Fighting Sioux chants, tradition etc. will go on, all because the process used to retire the nickname focused more on athletics–the desire to join Division one–than whether use of the nickname was truly racist in it’s current form, or not.
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We have all said the chants will go on for a season or two. No more than that. Eventually even the die hard fans will get tired of beating the dead horse.
Remember, with each new freshman class the FS nickname and logo become less a reality and more of a memory. They will make their own traditions.
Circle of life.
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It will go on much longer than a season or two.
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An attempt by the NCAA to not play the Bully as they have been? Or maybe we are to believe there are at least some competent people at the NCAA office? I do not believe either.
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Did anyone else read the first letter to Kupchella which originally broached the elimination of the nickname. The NCAA official who wrote it had her native language as Spanish. The letter was incomprehensible unless you knew that language. I actually translated it into real English for him.
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Thing is, Ralph DID make it impossible to remove the logos without tearing it down. The facade, the floor, the seats. The place is cemented together by the logos.
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UND DOES NOT CARE about racism issues in this matter. They won! They are now allowed to play with the big boys in division one sports across the board!
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Well, there you have it, the last and final article in the Herald on the nickname. This is our last chance to comment on the subject. It came so quickly. I’d like to buy the world a home and furnish it with love, grow apple trees and honey bees and snow-white turtle doves.
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So buy me a Coke and we can discuss when the next nickname article appears.
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I’ve had my doubts, old-timer, but this time, it’s the real thing.
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I’ll continue to keep Tabs on it.
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It amuses me that the person who wants us to play nice is a name-caller. The example he sets is not a good one.
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Here’s a capital N for you. Tomorrow I will add an a and the following day a g.
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Capital N…a…g. What?
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So what do you know that we don’t know….are they changing the Herald to some other name or something?
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There has been no movement on the part of UND for a new nickname, which leads me to believe they will wait for one graduating class to go through before even starting the process. That would be either 4 or 6 years.
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I do not believe they are allowed to look at a new nick name until 2015 by law. I dont think UND needs a nickname. They can be North Dakota, simple and direct. Why do they need another name?
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Like I said Glenn, Dakota fits the remaining logos just fine.
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Like I pointed out during the FS debate, most of the tribal schools do not have nicknames. ND will work just fine for now. In the end they will adopt a new nickname simply because it is good marketing, and as we never tire of saying, it is all about the money.
As for 2015, I do not think anyone is paying particular attention to that law. I would pay someone to try and enforce it. That way we could have the constitutional showdown between the legislature and the SBHE to decide who sets policy at the 11 colleges and universities once and for all.
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Or never, a university doesn’t really need a nickname, North Dakota is just fine.
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I’m sure the Dakota/Lakota/Nakota would like to be nick named “dogs” which is what it would become, just like Duluth.
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Did I miss something? How did we get from SunDogs to Lakota, Nakota, etc. Just because the state is named for the tribe that was here when we decided we wanted the land does not mean they are one and the same. That assumption would really anger the tribes involved.
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Dakota Territory was named after the tribe because that’s who lived here. The Univ. was named after the tribe as were the athletic teams. A stretch by you to say the connection isn’t real & commonly appreciated by both groups.
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I admit the sports teams were named after the Sioux since the 1930s. UND existed for over 50 years before that.
We have been known as the Sioux. Whether we become the flickertails, or Sun Dogs, or Polar Stars or Porn Stars of the North, I do not think the association with the tribes will be automatic.
It would be nice if Native Americans and their issues were that forefront in the average American’s consciousness; but they are not.
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Actual there were very few Lakota/Nakota/Dakota in the northern half of the territory. A few at Standing Rock and the relocated ones from Minnesota at Spirit Lake and Sisseton band, though the Spirit Lake Tribe had only been there a few years. The naming came from the Lakota/Nakota/Dakota that lived in what became South Dakota.
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FN “I admit the sports teams were named after the Sioux since the 1930s. UND existed for over 50 years before that”.
We’re talking about the word “Dakota” not Sioux. Dakota was the name used when the Territory got its name. There was likely little awareness that the Dakota/Lakota/Nakota were mostly in the southern part of the terr. until after statehood. Correct me if I’m wrong, Jack.
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“Duaine Espegard, Grand Forks, president of the State Board, applauded Stenehjem’s “diligence” in negotiating this final piece of the long-running dispute. So did Kelley, who attended Wednesday’s board meeting.”
Nice…except it was Stenehjem’s incompetence that caused us to lose the nickname.
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I thought snakes were solitary creatures and only met up to mate…
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Sorry Alvin. I can’t resist. One for old times sake …
If he was incompetent, how come you reelected him? You have a very strange way of showing your displeasure with your political leaders
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The NCAA is doing damage control knowing they were wrong treating Florida better than N.D.
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Pretty sure that part of the NCAA settlement is that UND MUST replace the Fighting Sioux nickname – they can not just go by North Dakota. But the state legislature put in the 2015 cooling down period and got the NCAA’s blessing. The NCAA realized that if UND does not replace the Fighting Sioux it would continue to live on – just one more way they are controlling UND and letting flaming spears fly and war paint be worn by white kids in Florida.
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Nope UND must retire The Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. No replacement is required.
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So we are have to retire the logo, but we can still display it?
Does this make any sense to ANYONE?
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The “brain trust” at the NCAA and Kelley …they just think…and hope….that no one will notice.
As Tim R points out repeatedly….Kelley and his have miraculously managed … Despite all the cost in dollars and angst…
To ultimately….accomplish NOTHING!
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Reviewing my comment….I just realized….
It is the perfect description of the Obama Presidency…
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If you don’t think it makes sense you were not paying attention, or were bamboozled into thinking the controversy was really over racist use of the nickname.
It wasn’t.
It came down to the NCAA wanting people off their back in any fashion, and UND simpley wanting to be allowed to join division one sports leagues. Both blew off any willingness to resolve the issue of whether the use of the nickname was racist or not long ago.
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University of North Dakota Fighting Coxswain… that has endless potential. For those who don’t know he is the guy who yells row and other commands on a canoe team. Plus I could get drunk and suck our… well I think you get the idea
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Well…where to begin….
Oh…to hell with it.
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It’s just intermission people. He will be back in 14 refreshed and ready to go. While he is outside having a smoke let’s gossip about him. I will go first.
“I think he’s mellowed out a little.” –devilschild 2012
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Between the NCAA, Kelley, Espegard Stenejhem….
A bigger collection of dishonorable doofuses have never been assembled.
Quite an accomplishment by the NCAA….demand that the logo and name not be used because it is hostile and abusive…then after all the hate and discontent they caused….they relent…
And now everything is to be forgotten?
The NCAA must think that North Dakotans are just a bunch of ignorant hicks…..
Well….
If the shoe fits?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I always thought the plural of doofus was doofi.
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Merriam says “es”…. I checked.
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Kinda like octopus, I guess.
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The Herald tries to spin this as if the benevolent dictators at the NnCaAzAi Org. Has made the kind and gentle ruling.
is it not just as possible that when they told the Engelstads that the logo had to go….the Engelstads just said…..
no.
It seems that is what Jody Hodgson told them when this whole thing started….
At least….that is the position the Engelstad family should have taken….
Maybe, just maybe….ol’ Ralph stuck it to the geeks again….
What a pleasant thought.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“It seems that is what Jody Hodgson told them when this whole thing started….
At least….that is the position the Engelstad family should have taken….”
Always,
As we have discussed numerous times before, that is what you wanted to happen, but low and behold it never did. Over and over during the last two years you have been predicting the ghost of Ralph rising from his grave to close the arena down and take his toys and go home.
As of this morning there has not been one single Ralph sighting in all of GF
Since Ralph had a way of insuring he got what he wanted, all of the evidence points to the fact he did not want to make a statement nearly as badly as you wanted him too. If he was dead set against the name being changed he would have put it in his will or other governing document.
Since he didn’t, and he was not known as a man that overlooked details, one has to believe the oversight was intentional.
It is not like he did not know this day was coming, $100 million or no
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Vice President Bernard Franklin, visited Grand Forks Aug. 20 and toured the REA with Stenehjem, UND President Robert Kelley, REA General Manager Jody Hodgson and Earl Strinden,
Just a couple of things to think about….
Where was the SBHE representation on this little tour?
Any money that the North Dakota taxpayer contributes to this spineless, useless, Boondoggle of an organization called the SBHE….is money flushed down the toilet.
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What was Striden doing there? I thought he was retired and out to pasture.
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Mr. DuBois,
Any chance Jody told the NCAA to go pound sand?
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Since it’s a private corporation I don’t imagine there was anything stopping him.
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Just out of curiosity, could the NCAA refuse to allow a hockey game in Chicago unless the Blackhawk logo at center ice be removed?
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Who the hell could dislike a simple question. Jeeze.
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I would imagine it is the same people that have Coke Zero sense of humor.
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Not sure any colleges play on the blackhawk ice? But if they did, this could be a condition the NCAA would impose, I believe.
IF they really cared about the racism issue.
They don’t of course. They were fine and dandy with racist issues being shoved under the rug at Florida state, despite much more consistent and widespread acknowledgement of racist use of the Seminole nickname than anything UND has done in recent years.
They were just fine with not even asking that either of the two Sioux bands in ND by a party to any settlement issue plan. And what’s worse, they fought against one band that tried to assert their lack of involvment as a legal issue in court.
No, the NCAA is NOT concerned with racist use of nicknames. They can’t possibly be with all the evidence to the contrary!
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If the NCAA tourney was played @ the United Center I’m sure the Blackhawk logo would go. No Chicago college needs the 20,000 seats @ the UC. In fact there are no college hockey teams in Chicago other than college club teams. Interesting that are no college teams in all of Illinois. There is lots of indoor ice for kid teams though.
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I was thinking of a game between two teams close to Chicago, like Notre Dame and Wisconsin. Could really pack in the fans.
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Good point Gene. I doubt the NCAA would bother with the Blackhawk logo considering their position now on the Sioux logos. The Blackhawks would tell them to take a walk & the NCAA/schools would have to much money @ stake to push the issue.
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Wy would they want to do that when they could make more money playing the game at the Kohl or Bradley?
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“Wy would they want to do that when they could make more money playing the game at the Kohl or Bradley?”
Because few grads stay in Madison or South Bend, but many go to Chicago for jobs. You’d have huge alumni attendance there.
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Nobody cares what you think
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Yes FN we know your position. You’ve stated it over and over 100′s of times. You are being redundant. There is no need to bore us over and over again with your opinions.
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Well…..let us look at the facts.
Hodgson stated months ago that the arena would not change….
The arena has not changed….at least not in any significant way…and certainly not in the way that the NCAA had initially demanded.
Now, due to the underhanded and jailhouse snitch-like behavior of Berkeley Bob….and the treachery of the weasel Alumni President…and let’s not forget the cowardly and greedy coaches…the name AND the Logo would still be part of the University.
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As it turns out…the Ralph will stand as a monument to the ignorant and useless policy of the NCAA.
And the poor bewildered Berkeley Bob….pretending to be soooo concerned about offending any minority group?
Maybe he should stage a little boycott of the offensive arena….he should just stay the hell away…..see…
Another win win.
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Our kids and grand kids will walk thru the Ralph for the next 30 years and ask about the logos. They will be educated about the follies of the PC imbeciles. Home of the Sioux will still be shouted out at the end of the National Anthem. Ralph outsmarted the fools.
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More like in 30 years when yourwhite grandchildren find themselves as the minority in this country they will have the sense to realize white does not make right.
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The ncaa doesn’t want the frozen 4 in north dakota because it is a logistical nightmare. There are only a handful of flights in and out with only direct flights to minneapolis and denver! The hotel industry is stressed beyond belief and there is only one interstate in and out of town. For a major championship it is common sense to keep your championships in regional centers that have major airports and plenty of hotel and dining options. Sorry but it is about the all mighty dollar and grand forks will lose hands down to boston new york chicago minneapolis and denver any day of the week.
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The real issue is that there is no 18,000+ seat arena in GF for NCAA hockey. When seats weren’t an issue GF hosted in the late 70s? in an old Englestad with 6000 seats as did Duluth in 1968. GF will again host World Tourneys for junior hockey & curling because those events rotate between counties. GF is strategically located to be a host of those 2 world tourneys because of the proximity to Winnipeg so when they are held in the US it is logical to find a city close to the border which in effect makes it a Canadian event. Of course the attraction of the new Ralph is just as important. When it is Canada’s turn to host, Winnipeg becomes a competitor against other Canadian cities because of its NHL style arena.
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