Voter ID requirement would make voting more complicated, expensive
September 24, 2012 at 7:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
We all have our own stories of our first time voting. I remember being so proud to be an American the day I first voted as a freshman in college. I want this experience to be as easily available to the thousands of students in my City Council district. Unfortunately, if a voter-restriction amendment passes in November this will not be the case.
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Boyle either doesn’t know what he’s talking about or he’s trying to deliberately mislead people.
The amendment contains no local government expense either mentioned or implied. Funding will come from the state general fund. Local and county governments aren’t expected to bear any costs associated with providing IDs.
There’s nothing complicated about provisional balloting. People will still be able to vote on election day. They’ll have 7-10 days to prove their ID and eligibility afterwards before their vote will be counted. If they’re going to go to the polls and want to vote, I presume they’ll want that vote to count and they’ll make the minimal effort required to prove their identity and eligibility. And we’re talking about an extremely minute number of people who’ll even use provisional ballots. Specifics regarding absentee voting will be addressed by the next legislature, but people using it already have to verify their identity and eligibility.
Every single member of the military already has an ID. Duh. This won’t have any effect on them whatsoever. And if students are too lazy to go get a new ID, they can use out-of-state IDs and drivers licenses as long as they have something like a utility bill that shows their current address. This will have no effect on students genuinely interested in voting.
The state already has provisions in place for those who might not have birth certificates or other standard forms used to verify identification. It’s a one-page form. If that’s too much work for someone, are they really going to sit down and fill out a ballot?
And why doesn’t Boyle mention people who vote for conservative candidates? Or doesn’t he think they’ll be affected, too? Where in the amendment does it say it only applies to those who vote for Democrats?
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As Boyle said, Voting is at the heart of all democracies and a right of every U.S. citizen, we need to protect voting. I believe everyone has an ID. Poor people need an ID for food stamps and welfare. Nursing home residents have IDs for Medicare and Medicaid.
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BT said:
“I believe everyone has an ID. Poor people need an ID for food stamps and welfare. Nursing home residents have IDs for Medicare and Medicaid.”
Well, I’m really not sure why you believe that everyone has an ID.
Poor people do need an ID for food stamps and welfare.
However, it doesn’t seem as though it needs to be a PHOTO ID.
” In determining if you are eligible for food stamps, your county Food Support office will require proof of the answers that you provided on the application. You’ll need one form of identification that bears your name and current address; proof of income such as pay stubs, Social Security checks or unemployment benefits; proof of your living expenses; proof of citizenship or legal status in the United States; and proof of your assets, such as bank accounts and property that you own.”
http://www.ehow.com/how_6895816_do-food-stamps-minneapolis_.html#ixzz27kYOHLul
The only ID that nursing home residents need for Medicare is their Medicare card, which does not have a picture on it. The only ID they need for Medicaid is their Medicaid card, again..no picture.
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…well they should need a photo ID to get a goverment handout too
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…add an “n” to my “goverment” cheese
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DanH said:
“The amendment contains no local government expense either mentioned or implied. Funding will come from the state general fund. Local and county governments aren’t expected to bear any costs associated with providing IDs.”
Can you post a link to where that information can be found?
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DanH said:
“The amendment contains no local government expense either mentioned or implied. Funding will come from the state general fund. Local and county governments aren’t expected to bear any costs associated with providing IDs.”
There’s a whole lot that isn’t mentioned or implied in the amendment and that’s basically the problem.
People are being asked to buy into something with very few of the details presented up front, most notably, cost.
Even if the state does pay for all the IDs out of the general fund, there certainly will be additional costs at the precinct level. Those will have to be funded by additional property taxes, since that’s the only form of revenue available to cities/counties/precincts.
Most of the actual details of this amendment will be left to the next Legislature to figure out so, no one can say right now with any certainty what any of it will be.
As my Gram would say, we’re being asked to buy a pig in a poke.
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“…..As my Gram would say, we’re being asked to buy a pig in a poke….”
Well that didn’t stop you from endorsing Obamacare, something Nancy Pelosi said, and I quote “we have to pass the health care bill so that you can find out what is in it “. All 2700 pages of it. Nice try Katy, but you loose on this one.
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Why are the liberals in this country so against requiring voters to show an ID? It’s because it would harm their voting base by not allowing many in it to cast votes unlawfully.
I would guess that people who don’t have valid ID’s probably aren’t productive tax paying individuals anyway. How can anyone have a job without an ID? Saying this, are these individuals who would vote ofor the candidate who is best leader, or are they going to cast their vote for who will best line their pockets and take care of them?
This is the exact voting block that liberals rely on to keep them in office. It’s a downhill spiral they have put the liberals have put this country in, and it is time we have a vote based on who is going to make the best decisions on behalf of all citizens rather then just on those who rely so heavily on the government and those elected liberals.
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so you are calling everyone who is retired nonproductive citizens who shouldnt be allowed to vote…lol good luck selling that to the aarp
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Actually retired people are pretty non-productive when it comes to having incomes and paying taxes. Granted they have paid in their whole working lives, hopefully. I would venture to guess that those retired folks who belong to AARP actually have photo ID’s as well. This wouldn’t hinder them in their ability to vote. The population that doesn’t hold ID’s most likely don’t pay taxes either, thus their aren’t productive. This voting block has surrendered their voting priveledge by not having a valid legal ID.
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so once again…let me guess this straight you are saying on record that people who are unproductive/dont pay taxes shouldnt be allowed to vote?
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Nice try at twisting things around. I am simply saying people who can’t produce a photo ID shouldn’t have the priveledge to vote.
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The voter fraud-promoting libs need to remember: Those retirees need to have a photo ID to pick up their prescriptions.
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Not at any pharmacy I’ve visited. If you’re buying something with ephedrine in it (commonly used to make methamphetamine), or a scheduled narcotic, then you may need to show some photo ID, but otherwise, no. And no, you don’t need to show photo ID to use a credit card, either — in fact, both Visa and Mastercard have language in their merchant agreements which prohibits stores from making presentation of ID a requirement. They can ask you to voluntarily show some ID, but they cannot require you to show ID as a condition of doing business. There is no legal requirement to show ID when purchasing alcohol or cashing a check, either, though the business may choose to require one for their own protection. You are not even strictly barred from boarding an airplane without photo ID, but you’ll need to allow plenty of time for the extensive security procedures that you’ll have to go through if you are unable to produce suitable ID. Senior citizens don’t need ID to cash Social Security checks, because the SSA prefers direct deposit and the bank’s ATM doesn’t require anything except your card. None of those institutions (should you prefer to believe that they do require ID, despite the facts) have any way of knowing if the address on your photo ID (if there even is one) is current
So, for those keeping score, here’s how well the photo ID requirement to vote does at fighting voting fraud:
Does nothing to stop felons from voting, because no ID discloses felon status
Does nothing to prevent you from voting more than once if you live within driving distance of a state border
Does nothing to prevent you from voting as someone else, if you know their address and can afford a fake ID (ask a neighborhood kid who likes to party if you don’t know where to get one)
Does nothing about alleged dead voters (see previous)
Does nothing about fraudulent use of absentee ballots
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and joe schmoe wins…pencils down people this quiz is over
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Why do liberals in this country 1) make things up to get worked up about, and 2) get worked up about them, and 3) expect anyone to take them seriously?
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Hey DanH: I’m laughing so hard at your post, I have to wipe tears from my eyes. I couldn’t have said it better…
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Because we choose to not live in ignorance and be sheeple.
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OK, I just have to say something here regarding magnumpi’s post: I’m 1) conservative 2) elderly, (61 years old 3) a former college student, (Now teacher) 4) a person of color (Native American) and 5) A military veteran (14 years active duty USAF) and I have never felt like I’ve been kept from voting. Oh, in all of the above, I have or have had a picture ID to prove I was who I said I was. As for forceing tax increases on citizens???, I don’t get that part. Hey, have a hppy day.
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magnumpi, I saw another photo ID outrage yesterday in the downtown Mpls. skyway. There was a line of people 50-60 people long waiting to get free cell phones. There was a sign at the table that indicated that in order to obtain a free phone “Customers” must provide a photo ID and proof that they are in a government sponsored low income assistance program. Think of all the disenfranchised “Customers” of this program. Check it out, this is a real program: http://www.obamaphone.net for details of the program. Maybe you should take your ACLU card out of your wallet and call them and complain about “Customers” of a free government program being asked for a photo ID. How dare the government to ask for a photo ID.
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i·ron·ic (-rnk) also i·ron·i·cal (-rn-kl)
adj.
1. Characterized by or constituting irony.
2. Given to the use of irony. See Synonyms at sarcastic.
3. Poignantly contrary to what was expected or intended
Isn’t it ironic that the same people you lefties are worried about disenfranchising from voting because they would have to produce a photo-ID, have absolutely no issue with producing multiple forms of ID to obtain a government handout?
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No, the prooblem is not with the conservatives. You should look in the mirror for the cause of the problem. Liberalism is a mental shortcoming, exactly like immaturity, that us conservatives have grown out of. With luck some day you too will mature and become a conservative.
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ulysses said:
“With luck some day you too will mature and become a conservative.”
If your theory is correct, and all old people are conservative, this might get interesting.
If the Dems are right, and a lot of old people get shut out of the voting process because of the voter ID law, it could actually end up being a good thing for them.
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>>> “difference between a privilege, purchasing a product and a guaranteed Constitutional Right”??? so taking welfare is purchasing a product now?
Steve0 is right. You seriously fail to see the irony in requiring photo ID to receive government programs set up specifically targeted at the poor and then claim this is the very group disenfranchised by voter ID?
BTW, now that you admit welfare is a privilege and not a right, I am hopeful we’ve heard the last from the “welfare rights” crowd … I doubt it.
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“Obama Phone”?? Really. Read http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2012/09/28/crazy-for-obama-phones-but-are-they-for-real/ . It is kind of funny that there are people who actually buy ideas like “Obama Phone.”
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The only people that will have their voting ability restricted are those who aren’t allowed to vote. Get over it libs, this will pass easily as it has in EVERY state that it has been placed on the ballot. This is a long overdue measure that will help ensure that those who cannot legally cast a ballot won’t be able to.
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LOL…rule here….you’ll get LOTS of thumbs down whenever you dare to ask for any kind of actual proof.
AV motto….Facts…we don’t need no stinkin’ facts.
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You will also get them for pointing out that you will get thumbs down for asking for proof.
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I wonder how many thumbs down I get for asking you to prove that requiring voter ID won’t help stop voter fraud. Go ahead. Prove it. If you can.
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When I was in college in the 80′s, I never had a problem voting. My kids are in college now, and have no problem voting. My brother is in the Air Force, and has never had a problem voting. My parents are in their 70′s and have never had a problem voting. So, your argument against this amendment is lame, and only points to the obvious fact that you want to CHEAT to make sure YOUR candidate wins.
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I’m not sure I get the connection. So all those people have never had a problem voting proves what?
So far, most people haven’t had a problem voting. The problems don’t seem to arise till the government photo ID rule comes into play.
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If you value your right to vote, it is your resonsibility to make it happen. If your a college student, vote absentee in your home town. That is what my daughter did when she was away at college. My senior 84 you old mother quit driving an still has an ID so she can get on airplanes. Tha state will pay for anyone who doesn’t have an ID, which is taxpayer money well spent to insure the integity of every election. What are the liberals so afraid of?
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Too complicated to show an ID to vote? Seriously? That says a lot about the liberal electorate…
I moved here several years ago from a state that requires a picture ID to vote. It scares me that it’s not required here. The poll workers do not know me. Anyone who knows my name and address could show up at the polls, say they’re me, and steal my vote. There are no checks and balances to prevent that. A photo id would go a long way towards protecting our votes.
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I just sent in my absentee ballot, so I am done voting- and I vote absentee most of the time- because I never can tell where in the USA I will be on election day- yes- they NOW require the last 4 digits of your social Security Number OR your driver’s license number written on the envelope which contains the ballot.
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Mr Boyle….you are complaining about the cost of the ID election ( the State will pick up the tab….in other words, it will cost us all….except some of the folks who do not pay taxes….who you want to vote )…..when, with you being on the City Council…..advocating new taxes and fees….every time we turn around…..saying it just a little bit more…..but you folks do this many times….every year! You do not belly-ache about that….do you! Voting yes on this ammendment question will prove to be the best all-around decision we can all make!
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Could we send him back to Wisconsin..?
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Are you trying to start something? There’s a difference between a friendly rivalry like the Vikes and Packers, but you’re advocating dumping Duluth’s trash in Wisconsin without a permit.
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Sorry, didn’t think of that..
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The bottom line is democrats want all illegal alien votes to be counted.
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Over 2000 dead people registered to vote in Minnesota a few years ago.
Earlier this summer Eric Holder had his ballot spoofed by the same guy who exposed the ACORN fraud. Holder is the US Attny General and is African American. The spoofer is white. The poll worker was an idi*t who didn’t even know who Holder was and is caught on tape saying that the spoofer didn’t need any ID and that Holder was indeed registered to vote in the precinct. Now, if a white guy can walk up and ask to vote ask our black US attorney General, this proves how simple it is to vote fraudulently. Voter fraud of the type fastone refers to doesn’t get prosecuted because NOBODY CHECKS FOR ID’s!!!! If they checked, there’d be prosecutions. DUH!? It’s difficult to prosecute what you don’t check for. If we stopped checking for impaired drivers, prosecutions of DWI’s would plummet. Fastone is simply being dishonest when he asserts that there is no reason to check ID’s.
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I’m not talking about dead folks remaining on the rolls. These Zombies registered AFTER their expiration date.
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Hugh~ There is voter registration fraud, but that isn’t the same as voter fraud. Two totally different things but serves the agenda for the reichwing propaganda to interchange the two because conservatives are easily duped and misled. Do you have any proof that people who died came back, registered and then voted? Can you prove that there is really voter fraud problem? Because if you can, you should immediately get in touch with Karl Rove because he’s been trying to find proof of it for 10 years and decided to just lie about it instead but would love to actually have some proof.
To your prior post. Shows how easily are misled and duped. The person who tried to impersonate Eric Holder at voting poll…wasn’t voter fraud! He never voted and ran out of building as fast as could instead of voting. No vote was cast! See how easily you all are duped, it was voter registration impersonation…NOT…voter fraud. The very simple reason he didn’t vote and left immediately is the very fact that voter fraud is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in a Federal Prison!!! It’s a far better detterent then a photo ID and the very reason WE DON’T have a voter fraud problem.
From 2002 to 2005 Karl Rove spearheaded a campaign from whitehouse pressuring all state attorney generals to find proof of voter fraud. Those that wouldn’t were fired by Gonzales. This became a huge scandal and Gonzales lost his job over it but the net result was after a three campaign to find proof of voter fraud they only came up with 18 cases over a three period in WHOLE COUNTRY that were prosecuted for voter fraud and some of those were for local community election stuff.
You conservatives don’t grasp the most rudimentary concepts, like difference between fact and fiction so no surprise you don’t get the concept that the burden of proof DOES NOT rest on my shoulders to prove a darn thing….it rests on the Republicans to prove that there is voter fraud that needs to be addressed. So far nobody can do it, not even Karl Rove with the power of White House and the Attorney General pushing it…forgawdsakes that should turn a light on even with the dullest bulb but instead all I hear is…whaaa…what’s the big deal? The big deal is that is attempt to diminish the very foundation of our country based on a pack of conjured up lies…which should disturb anyone…but apparently not Repubs…
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fastone: “You conservatives don’t grasp the most rudimentary concepts, like difference between fact and fiction so no surprise you don’t get the concept that the burden of proof DOES NOT rest on my shoulders to prove a darn thing….it rests on the Republicans to prove that there is voter fraud that needs to be addressed.”
Hugh J: “Dear Mr Fast-and-loose-with-the-truth, obfuscations, diversions, and excuses, but still no answers.”
*commence banging face into brick wall*
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If there isn’t fraud, then please explain to everyone, during recounts, why do the returning votes continue to change so dramatically? All of the sudden they find boxes of so called “uncounted” ballots. Who is counting these things? Who validates the accurate amount of requested absentee ballots vs what they count? Hundreds of votes swing during a recount. This seems way to fishy to me.
I like the idea of everyone has a right to vote, but shouldn’t everyone have the right to a fair and accurate system for results too?
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Fastone,
It is a fact that 302 felons voted illegally for Franken. He won by 204 votes and the way the law is nothing could undo those votes. An ID will take care of that problem and many others. When will the Democrats think it is a person’s own responsibility to do what is necessary to vote? It is important to a democracy to have integrity in all elections and all votes. Are Democrats afraid they will never win an election when all vote are valid?
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You have alleged evidence of felons who have been stripped of the right to vote nevertheless voting. Naturally, you’d like to put an end to such things. Here’s your proposed solution: force everyone to show some sort of photo identification when they vote. So, those felons who want to vote need a photo ID. Not a problem, really, as all of the voter ID advocates insist that it is easy enough if you care to vote. With new photo ID in hand, felon goes to the polling place and votes. Oops, weren’t we trying to stop that? How could the DMV and other issuers of photo identification have been so short-sighted as to fail to put a big scarlet F over the photo of any convicted felon?
Photo ID for voting: trampling voters’ rights to provide an ineffective solution for a non-problem.
How many of those Felons For Frankel members were brought up on charges and convicted of voter fraud?
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Daria said:
“Fastone,
It is a fact that 302 felons voted illegally for Franken. He won by 204 votes and the way the law is nothing could undo those votes. An ID will take care of that problem and many others.”
How exactly do you envision the ID law limiting any felon’s ability to vote?
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Can you say “Database”?
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Voter ID is one piece, what about absentee ballots? Thats even more insane. Clearly that has issues as well.
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If, as Boil asserts, showing an ID is “too complicated”, then the ID isn’t the problem, the voter’s intelligence, or lack thereof is the problem. Is there anybody out there is Boil’s district named Lance who is willing to run against this Marxist clown, ’cause this boil really needs to get Lanced.
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“It’s not the people who vote that count. It’s the people who count the votes.” (Josef Stalin)
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And yet you found the time and made the effort to go to the DMV and get a drivers license, didn’t you?
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Well, you can have honest people counting votes, or you can have fraud suborning DFL stooges DIScounting the conservative votes.
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Levi…..are you for real? You are complaining that you have to take an hour from work and do some driving to vote? If you figure it that way….you have always been taxed to vote…..correct? Anyway…..if you figure it that way…..do you feel you have a right to vote…..where you should be compensated for your time and trouble? Have you no allegiance and patriotism……you do not care what happens in our country….because of people that are elected to office…..while it costs you to drive to your polling center?? Evidently…..I have not heard it all….till now!
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If you can apply in person for food stamps you can apply in person for a photo ID. This “war on the old and poor” is about as big of a joke as the “war on women” – just another straw man by the left.
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A picture ID to vote is no hardship if you take your right to vote seriously. The ones objecting have something to hide apparently.
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The right to vote is a serious matter. That’s why we should not be putting arbitrary roadblocks in the path of any legitimate voter. If that means some illegitimate voters slip through, that’s unfortunate, but the alternative is worse. Just like the US criminal justice system aims to make sure the innocent are not punished, even if it means the guilty occasionally go free, we should strive to make sure every legitimate voter who wishes to vote is able to do so without undue hardship.
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Voter ID won’t create a hardship on anyone other than those who aren’t citizens or are otherwise ineligible to vote.
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Joe – ensuring “one man, one vote” is not an “arbitrary roadblock”. A voter ID is one of the easiest ways to ensure the integrity of our election system and in no way disenfranchises anyone. You can’t tell me Obumma and the Democrats aren’t counting on illegal aliens, felons, and dead people to help get him elected. If the left can bus people to the polls they can bus them to get an ID. You can’t tell me these same people without IDs wouldn’t find a way to get one if it was offering them some cash instead of the right to vote for the most powerful position in the world.
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Here’s another reason to ensure our election system is pure and we vote Obumma out of office before he destroys our Nation. To all of the Obumma drones out there watching The View, David Letterman, etc. for your current events read this snippet on Spain and ask yourself if it doesn’t sound like the road we’re on – they’re in the car ahead of us…
What went wrong with Spain?
Spain’s story illustrates the fact that the eurozone’s problems run far deeper than the issue of excessive borrowing by ill-disciplined governments.
Greece, Portugal and Italy all had way too much debt.
But the Spanish government’s borrowing was under control – that is, it ran a balanced budget on average every year until the eve of the 2008 financial crisis.
And as Spain’s economy grew rapidly before 2008, its debt-to-GDP ratio was falling. Germany’s, by contrast, continued to rise.
After Spain joined the euro, the country experienced a long boom, underpinned by a housing bubble, financed by cheap loans to builders and homebuyers.
House prices rose 44% from 2004 to 2008, at the tail end of a housing boom. Since the bubble burst they have fallen by a third.
The economy, which grew 3.7% per year on average from 1999 to 2007, has shrunk at an annual rate of 1% since then.
So, although the Spanish government still had relatively low debts, it has had to borrow heavily to deal with the effects of the property collapse, the recession and the worst unemployment rate in the eurozone.
NOBAMA2012
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Big government Republicans forcing this issue down the tax payers throat. Republicans never met a government program/regulation they didn’t like….
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How many lame excuses are the ID opponents going to make in their vain attempt to support voter fraud? Even the densest of individuals sees that the whole ID thing is about stopping the illegal vote, a vote that favors the liberal more than the conservatives. DFLers know that to take away the illegal vote is to wave the white flag. They absolutely MUST continue to advocate for voter fraud or risk forever becoming a minority party. They’ve depended on the fraud for years at their own expense. Now that things have tightened up, they can’t win without it. The difference between the parties is that the GOP sees this, but the DFL can’t for whatever reason, bring themselves to admit it.
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Hugh~ Asking for conservatives to prove that there is voter fraud isn’t a lame excuse. The question is how many times are Republicans going to repeat the same lies and when asked for proof of their claims constantly parrot the same misdirects that has nothing to do with proving voter fraud exists as a problem.
The only fraud being committed is by the Republican party and it’s all a blatant pack of lies to undermine our very Democracy.
FACT~ Repubs are the one’s that need to cheat, NOT the Democrats. According to Pew research, 51% of registered voters which includes Democrats and registered independents go with Democratic party while only 38% go with Republican party. There’s well over 15 MILLION more registered Democrats the Repubs…HELLO! That is why Repubs MUST CHEAT TO WIN…it’s why they are lying and trying to cheat with the voter ID bill. It’s why they had to cheat in Florida in 2000.
That’s what this whole thing is about, it’s Republicans perpetrating a fraud on the American people through a campaign of lies and propaganda to support them undermining our very democracy to level the playing field.
“A government that undermines the very foundation of its existence – the people’s inherent, pre-constitutional right to vote – imperils its legitimacy as a government by the people, for the people, and especially of the people,” Dane County Circuit Judge Richard Niess wrote. “It sows the seeds for its own demise as a democratic institution. This is precisely what 2011 Wisconsin Act 23 does with its photo ID mandates.
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http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/27/14126789-rnc-cuts-ties-with-firm-over-voter-fraud-allegations?lite
Updated: 8:46p.m. ET: Election officials in six Florida counties are investigating what appears to be “hundreds” of cases of suspected voter fraud by a GOP consulting firm that has been paid nearly $3 million by the Republican National Committee to register Republican voters in five key battleground states, state officials tell NBC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>snip>>>>>>>>>>
Wait, I thought that fraudulent voter registration was only something attributed to ACORN? Thats odd…coughcough. As article states, there were cases of fraud they found where fictious names and addresses were used including ones that belonged to gas stations and a Land Rover dealership.
So clearly we need to have a photo ID amendment because clearly Land Rovers are roaming our country and clearly are voting illegally right? It’s pretty obvious how widespread this voter fraud problem is and goes even deeper and more sinister then anyone ever suspected. Clearly there are dead people driving all over country in Land Rovers and voting and getting support to do so from gas stations which clearly are giving them free gas and to even compound the problem, we not only have the dead people voting but their land rovers they’re using are clearly voting also….obviously a Land Rover can’t get a current picture ID and so without a doubt a photo ID requirement would solve this problem and once you take away their free ride it will curtail the dead people from driving all over and voting also.
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As usual fastone, you’re missing the point. An ID will greatly reduce voter fraud from all sides. Now pardon me while I go out and get my Obamaphone. Go to obamaphone.net to have my tax dollars give you a free obamaphone. What will this clown think of next? Like I mentioned above, tell people you’re giving them something for free and they’ll find a way to get there but tell someone you need to get an ID to vote and all heck breaks loose. Only in a liberal’s mind does this make sense. If only a sense of personal responsibility could be given out for free.
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Yeah, man, you just don’t get it. It’s like, voter fraud’s going to be reduced from nothing way down to nothing! Plus voter suppression’s gonna go from kinda a lot of poor lazy blacks suppressed to like a lot more poor lazy blacks suppressed. And that’s awesome because they are not part of the real America and don’t really have the right to vote like we REAL Americans do.
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You haven’t proven your hypothesis yet. Kindly prove to us how requiring photo IDs isn’t going to help reduce voter fraud.
Wendy Rosen, the Democratic challenger to Republican Rep. Andy Harris in the 1st Congressional District, withdrew from the race after she admitted to voting in elections in both Maryland and Florida in 2006 and 2008.
Had a photo ID been required, would she have been able to vote in 2 different states and in 2 different elections? Not likely. So you keep on drinking the koolaide and pretending that this is an attempt to disenfranchise people, but the educated people know otherwise. Obama himself cracked a comment recently about how easy it has been to manipulate the party faithful.
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Hugh~ Classic conservative midirect while showing inability to grasp rudimentary concepts, it’s a classic with conservatives.
I don’t actually have to prove anything despite the fact that repeatedly have proven conservatives are supporting lies and can’t back up their assertions. Get it straight and stop twisting it like a troll does…The point is NOT that anyone has to prove that photo ID’s would prevent voter fraud that DOESN’T happen, it’s supporters of the bill that have to prove there is a problem that needs a solution.
The majority of proven voter fraud cases for the miniscule amount of times happens is inveriably felons voting unclear their voting rights had been suspended. This accounts for roughly 90% of all voter fraud cases. A photo ID would NOT prevent that from happening.
Another classic conservative tact btw…pure conjecture then trying to pass off as some factual support of argument. I would assume with two residences that she had photo ID’s from both states and hence, the photo ID requirement wouldn’t have prevented it. A isolated case doesn’t prove that there is a widespread voter problem that a photo ID would prevent and trying to pass that off as some support for your position is beyond lame.
The Minnesota ACLU offered a reward earlier this year to anyone that could prove a single case of voter fraud that would have been prevented by a photo ID. Minnesota Majority, the very paid lobby group of GOP pushing this nonsense took up the challenge and sent research teams scouring court records to claim the prize. They found ONE single case of voter fraud and the problem is that a photo ID wouldn’t have prevented it. I’ve posted this numerous times and clearly, Repubs are incapable of getting a clue even when beat them over the head with it.
Though you nuts are clearly incapable of grasping basic concepts you need to grasp this one….without a shred of proof your all are acting like gullible minions supporting the very demise of our country by assaulting the very foundation of our Democracy. Al-Queda I can understand why want to attack and hate us and wish to destroy us, I just don’t get why Republicans are so willing to do it for them.
“A government that undermines the very foundation of its existence – the people’s inherent, pre-constitutional right to vote – imperils its legitimacy as a government by the people, for the people, and especially of the people,” Dane County Circuit Judge Richard Niess wrote. “It sows the seeds for its own demise as a democratic institution. This is precisely what 2011 Wisconsin Act 23 does with its photo ID mandates.”
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Fox3….you are just another big government conservative….quit trying to force your tax increases on us citizens just to restrict voting for Americans. Move to Russia you commie….
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Here’s a news story from FL. It involves a voter registration contractor hired by the GOP. And you claim that there’s no voter ID fraud? These fraudulent registrations won’t work if a current ID is required at the polls. But if you don’t need to prove who you are, you can register in multiple precincts and vote in every one of them. But still I won’t convince those who depend upon the illegal vote to keep their team in the race.
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Hugh and Fox~ You two need to pay attention, which clearly is a overwhelming task for you two, I already posted on the GOP registration fraud with link to article. I posted sarcastic comment on it knowing you two would say something lame hoping to circumvent it…and darn if you didn’t say it anyway.
Yes, it’s absolutely proof that without voter photo ID gas stations and Range Rovers would be strolling into polling places and voting…..the only way you two make sense would be if are paid schills to post by Democratic party to make Repubs look as ridiculous and clueless and dense as possible.
Pssst…….let me explain something to you and want you to really concentrate now and think about this……probably the greatest deterrent to preventing dead people from voting….is they’re DEAD!!!
Also voter registration and voting are two separate things, but I know they sound the same to you and so confuses you. That some kid doctors up the registration list because paid for how many people he registers doesn’t mean he’s casting those votes, it means he’s scamming for a paycheck. The GOP consulting firm kids did it, ACORN had same problem, go figure. But there’s never been a single case of voter fraud attributed to ACORN…but conservatives keep hollering about ACORN and voter fraud…again, easily confused, always befuddled and easily misled…and clearly incapable of holding two thoughts in noggin’ at same time…but that doesn’t change the fact that voter registration and voter fraud are two separate things….and here’s another helpful hint…it doens’t make them the same things no matter how many times you post as if they are! SMH!!
“With Republicans, it isn’t a question of whether or not they live in fantasyland. It’s just where within that domain they reside.”
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Oh thank fastone for your words of wisdom – especially your really neat quotes at the end of every post!
You support a party and a president who racks up $1.5 trillion in red ink every year, hasn’t passed a budget in 3 years, and has added 6 trillion to the National Debt and yet Hugh and I live in a fantasy land. That’s pretty funny.
Do a little research on the topic of how many ballots have been cast by dead people because your claim that it doesn’t happen is a real knee slapper (almost as funny as your support for ACORN).
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Fox~ I’m simply overjoyed that you are still enthusiastically pursuing this banter to help expose how clueless, misinformed and easily manipulated Republicans are and really appreciate your playing along.
Of course you’re living in fantasyland, it certainly isn’t reality bucko. For starters, it’s pure delusional fantasy to believe that you stating I just need to look something up and will see and then try to run that up flagpole as if you’ve proven a darn thing and that your statements are then factual by proclaiming it’s a real knee-slapper for me to proclaim dead people aren’t voting….is clearly the ravings of someone who’s lost all touch with reality.
I’ve been aware that for long time that conservatives are incapable of grasping rudimentary concepts and there’s no better proof needed then the fact as a collective the Republicans believe that dead people are voting and that regardless of how many times explained to them they just can’t seem to grasp the most basic concepts that even children can grasp that when people die, they are dead and remain dead. Easily confused and misled and unable to grasp concepts as collective they are also clearly incapable of understanding the huge difference between voter registration and actual voting.
If people are registered to vote, have a drivers license and own a car before they die, when they die, they still have a voter registration, drivers license and a car in their name. That does not mean they are driving themselves to polling places and voting. ….mmmm…I think fantasyland was being kind btw…
If one were to search on query…are dead people voting?…one is immediately struck with fact that the first 20 hits are all rightwing bloggers citing that dead people are still registered and claiming it’s the same thing as voter fraud. Again, unable to grasp concepts and living in a fantasyland applies to the whole collective of Republicans supporting this nonsense.
What one can’t find though, is proof that dead people are voting. Heralded throughout the reichwing blogsphere as proof of voter fraud is the case in Sout Carolina where the head of DMV claimed found 950 people that were dead but still registered voters and proclaimed he thought those dead people voted. Numerous reichwing blogs were pointing to that story and proclaiming that voter fraud really exists…apparently zombie movies are especially frightening for Republicans because they believe it’s true and really happens….SMH!!
Whereas of course in the real world void of such delusional fantasies and schizophrenic paranoia…we find out that of course, it wasn’t true at all and that in fact after the South Carolina Attorney General and Election Committee reviewed it they didn’t find even ONE, NOT A SINGLE CASE of voter fraud.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/breaking-still-no-voter-fraud-south-carolina
Of course Faux News and all the nutjob reichwing bloggers are still pushing this as evidence of dead people voting….but us sane folks that live in real world know dead people don’t vote and that zombie movies aren’t very scary, that they’re just movies and we know…Hint~> they’re not documentaries….~rolls eyes~
“It will do you no harm to find yourself ridiculous. Resign yourself to be the fool you are.” …..T. S. ELIOT,
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“didn’t find even ONE, NOT A SINGLE CASE of voter fraud.”
Wow I did NOT know our election system was so pure we’ve never had one single case of voter fraud! That’s pretty cool fastone…and I live in a fantasy land?
Keep up the pontification and the great quotes cuz its better than reading the comics! Hey look a unicorn!
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Here’s a news story from FL. It involves a voter registration contractor hired by the GOP. And you claim that there’s no voter ID fraud? These fraudulent registrations won’t work if a current ID is required at the polls. But if you don’t need to prove who you are, you can register in multiple precincts and vote in every one of them. But still I won’t convince those who depend upon the illegal vote to keep their team in the race. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_VOTER_REGISTRATION_FLORIDA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-09-28-11-41-48
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Hugh you’re right on the money but unfortunately wasting your time on people who just want to watch Rachael Madcow for their news. The only people disenfranchised by a voter ID law are illegal aliens, dead people, and people who like to vote 10 times. The argument against it is absolutely laughable!
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I’m a retired military veteran (honorably discharged, twice, with combat experience in two wars) who cannot obtain a photo ID from the State of Minnesota — I know this because I have repeatedly tried to obtain one, all to no avail. I’ve even begged assistance from our elected politicians, who simply blew my request for assistance off.
When I was born my parents were in the process of obtaining a divorce. My biological father’s last name was passed on to me, via my Birth Certificate. However, not long after the divorce, my mother remarried. For reasons unknown to me (my parents are both now deceased) I was never formally “adopted”, in the strict legal sense, by my stepfather. My parents applied for my Social Security number using my stepfather’s last name – not the surname shown on my Birth Certificate. The Social Security Administration subsequently issued my SSN under my “assumed” name, without question or comment. This was all done while I was a very small child, and no more was ever said to me about any of it until I was nearly 18.
I volunteered for military service immediately after graduating from high school. While being inducted into the military, the matter of the discrepancy between my “assumed” name (the one I’d used all my life, went to school under, and which was on my Social Security card) and the different surname on my Birth Certificate was noted, and I explained why this was so. The Army recruiter had me sign a boilerplate form stating that I was using my life-long “assumed” last name “for purposes of convenience, with no intent to defraud…” and that was that; I was in the Army. No problem!
All my life I have naively lived under the same “assumed” name, with no problem at all, ever. I pursued a career, went to college, built a business, paid taxes, acquired property and had kids, and my identity was never once questioned.
Not until 9-11 anyway.
Some time after 9-11 my Minnesota Driver’s License expired. I was on active duty with the military at the time, and had a military ID, and it was an issue that was frankly pretty low on my priority list at the time, so I put it on my mental “To Do when I get back home” list, and forgot about it.
When I finally did go to renew my MN Driver’s License I was in for a nasty shock.
The DMV clerk asked me for my name and SSN, and using these he instantly pulled up an actual photo of my expired Driver’s License on their computer — complete with photo and all! Great! I tell them: “That’s me, as you can see! I just need to renew it.” They tell me I can’t simply “renew” it anymore, once it has “expired”. Ever since 9-11, they tell me, people must go through the entire application process all over again if they allow their licenses to expire. They tell me that now I must come up with 3 forms of “approved” identification; a Birth Certificate, a Social Security Card, and some other form of documentation from their “approved list” of acceptable documents.
I went home and got a copy of my Birth Certificate, my DD 214′s (Honorable Discharge papers from the military) and a copy of my paid Property Tax bill, plus a few other identifying documents of this type. I went back to the DMV with all these papers, and they told me that since the name on my Birth Certificate was different than the name on everything else, they could not give me a license — they would not even give me a simple State Photo ID card. No way. The Patriot Act and the Department of Homeland Security strictly forbids it, I am told.
My State Senators and Representatives tell me that all I have to do is pay to have my name legally changed – or pay to have my Social Security name/number somehow fixed up — at the risk of having my entire lifetime earnings record lost or disconnected in the process — just as I near an age sufficient to actually apply for some of those accrued benefits.
Frankly, I find both “solutions” deeply insulting. I don’t want to change the name I’ve used all my life to something else now. Who would? And I don’t want my earnings record shifted to a name I’ve never used in all the years I was earning those retirement credits.
So, even though I was born here of parents who were also born here, and have lived here all my life, have gone to school here, worked here, raised a family here and even fought for this country (repeatedly, no less) I’m simply not able to get a State issued photo ID in Minnesota — not without going to some serious expense and a *great* deal of personal inconvenience.
I’ve come to the conclusion that while I was off fighting to assure our freedoms, most of you were back here endorsing some absurdly paranoid laws, the end result of which has been to disenfranchise many who truly deserve better treatment from those they have so selflessly served.
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Keep bantering back and forth. Bottom line, we need FAIR elections. Clearly things aren’t accurate enough. Lets agree to eliminate any potential fraud, and allow all those who qualify to vote. Seems to be a no brainer to me. Currently, the system is not without flaw.
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Republicans want big government and more taxes….enough said.
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You know, I think its a fundamentally bad idea to limit one of our most basic rights and disenfranchise a large number of actual voters to catch a small number fraudulent votes.
But if we are going to go forward I want this precedent made clear — its ok to put a limit like having to show an ID and be vetted for our most basic right — voting. Thus it would be just as reasonable to have all the same limitations on purchasing (or for that matter selling) a gun (clearly not as important a right as voting).
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The Leftists are always holding up Canada as a gleaming example of how the US should act. Well Canada has had photo voter ID laws on the books for years. ….Funny how the advocates/apologists for voter fraud never bring that up. They don’t want voter ID for one simple reason, they know that to require photo ID’s will put an end to their cheating. Plain and simple. If you are a resident in a nursing home, you have already established your ID. Yet the vote thieves hold nursing homes out as one of their greatest concerns. Maybe because there’s a tremendous amount of fraud already taking place there.
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As long as the ID’s are free, they create a database that actively marks when a person has voted using said ID and are able to cross-reference it with a known list of deceased and felons; then I am ok with requiring this ID to vote.
What confuses me, is that how does anyone in the state of Minnesota vote without ID in the first place? I have voted in every national election since I turned 18 and every single time, without fail, I have been required to show my ID or have someone who DOES have an ID and in my precinct vouch for me.
I see lots of references to dead people registering to vote. Dead people registering to vote =/= dead people voting. A small company trying to make extra money by fudging the numbers does not make them guilty of voter fraud. It makes them guilty of fraud, but not Voter Fraud.
I am also baffled at how many people follow completely flawed logic. Being against voter ID laws somehow means the are trying to cheat elections?
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Dorkus~ “I see lots of references to dead people registering to vote. Dead people registering to vote =/= dead people voting.”
Dead people aren’t registering to vote…they’re dead! People are registered to vote and then die…it happens to everyone ya’ know..but they are still on the registration roles as registered to vote…and they’re NOT voting either…for the EXACT same reason…they’re dead!
The GOP has been repeating this nonsense now for so long and so the Republican base not exactly known for their ability to grasp basic concepts, hearing it enough all of sudden start believing, well, it must be true, people are coming back from the afterlife to just vote.
Despite the fact that there’s no proof of that happening, despite the fact that it’s not just an outlandish and absurd notion without that proof, but is clearly impossible…that doesn’t prevent the sheeple from repeating it and believing it as you just proved.
This thread has proven several things.
1- Nobody can support their arguments, provide proof of voter fraud or show any reason whatsoever that Voter ID is even necessary.
2- Republicans are not bright enough to even grasp that claiming one has a photo ID is not prove of voter fraud. Then again, this same group didn’t grasp the concept that having “undeniable proof of WMD” means there’s absolutely not a reason in world to withhold showing that proof.
3- The most important aspect of all this and proven clearly in this thread is…..If Karl Rove wanted to convince the Republican base that pigs could fly and that Space Aliens were voting the right wing blogsphere would be drowning in claims of sightings of pigs flying and Faux News would hammer audience every night about conjured up stories of Space Aliens voting and in no time the Republican party would be made of people that believe pigs could fly and Space Aliens were ruining our elections .
“Let’s be blunt and acknowledge the biggest threat to the world’s biggest economy are the cranks and crazies that have taken over the Republican Party,” Australian Deputy PM. Wayne Swan, one of few world leaders able to boast his country had avoided recession during the global financial crisis
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