Judge rejects Wisconsin law limiting union rights
September 14, 2012 at 7:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
A Wisconsin judge on Friday struck down nearly all of the state law championed by Gov. Scott Walker that effectively ended collective bargaining rights for most public workers. Continue Reading
“Its working”….really. Shocker. Of course it would. If you pay someone less you save money. It does not IMPOVE ANYTHING. I actually think it will make things worse, but money will be saved. Imagine if the State could pay $0 and force people to work then it would REALLY work. Look at China and no unions, it “is working” there also, $14/day salary + 14 hour shifts. “Its working”. They have it figured out. Look at the new average income for middle class. From 2000 to 2010 (which I am sure is all Pres. Obamas fault), middle class income went down $4,000 while upper incomes rose. “Its working”. Get the average working stiff to resent those who earn at a middle class income by finding an execption to the rule of someone abusing the system, rather than the norm and get them to vote against their best self interst. “Its working”. I am 100% for accountability and getting rid of lazy slobs. That is what should have been pushed for. I still do not understand how Mr Walker made the exception to fire and police to collectively bargin. I mean I hope it is not because those groups lean Republican and endorced him in the election. That would be cronyism and I know GOPers would not accept that. Imagine how well it would “work” when ALL UNIONS are gone. Then the only big money being funneled to politicans is from the one side of the coin. Imagine the day when all jobs are the same wage and if you complain you are fired. it will really be “working” then. I just see a dystopian future ahead of us with the whole world run by one company, which ironically would be the government too.
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Nice to see more legislating from the bench.
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Damn liberal judges and their unabashed love of the Bill of Rights!
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Exactly Tom, those commie judges that keep wanting to defend our Constitional rights and integrity of our Constitution are just getting in the way of conservatives agenda to advance their agenda for our country and democracy demise…
Anyone supporting the clearly transparent agenda also for Voter ID’s just one of the Judge’s in Dane County that blocked Walkers Voter ID bill…and I mean read it repeatedly until it sinks and you realize you’ve been supporting the demise of our country…
“A government that undermines the very foundation of its existence – the people’s inherent, pre-constitutional right to vote – imperils its legitimacy as a government by the people, for the people, and especially of the people,” Dane County Circuit Judge Richard Niess wrote. “It sows the seeds for its own demise as a democratic institution. This is precisely what 2011 Wisconsin Act 23 does with its photo ID mandates.”
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oops~ insert~> should read just one of the judges in Dane County argument for blocking Walkers bill…
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Mmmm…~scratches head~…well, guess just further proof that with Republicans, it isn’t a question of whether or not they live in fantasyland. It’s just a question of where within that domain they reside.
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When you were “in your youth,” you just didn’t understand how the court system worked. Everyone thinks that life was better when they were kids. It wasn’t. You just didn’t follow politics.
Look up An intellectual history of judicial activism. You’ll find that it’s been going on for a very long time, and it looks quite different than the Republican party would have you believe.
This particular case is not Judicial Activism. It’s just another court decision the Republican Party finds inconvenient.
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I’ll only 44! The way this country is going down the sewer so fast has me feeling like I’m an old faurt. That was my attempt at political satire and I’m done with it. Thought it would be funny and cute to put a new twist on the same old nonsense, but there is nothing funny about judges being labeled openly as liberal and conservative. What next, openly gay judges? I’m going to die if I ever see something like “Vote for Judge Brown – a liberal judge for today’s modern world”. Outrageous and Ridiculous!
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Don’t worry, it’ll be okay. Everything’s going to be fine.
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Vune…b + s = no it won’t be. We will never go back to where we were. The future is bleak. Enjoy the calm before the storm.
Don…you’re just a kid by today’s standards. You have plenty of misery ahead of you.
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At what point in our past do you think we ever had it better than we do today?
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So state union employees are not part of the lawsuit.. therefore they are not covered by the ruling? So now the judges ruling violates the equal protection clause by not covering state unions. Genius.
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Dane County (Madison) is a haven of liberal judicial activism. Their decisions are overturned frequently upon appeal. This whole saga reminiscent of the groundhog day movie. The voters elected reform candidate Walker in the first gubernatorial election, then the legislative recalls, the supreme court election and the gubernatorial recall. The Wisconsin Supreme Court (4 to 3 GOP advantage) upheld the law earlier. Now the Unions find a partisan judge in a commie county trying to once again usurp the will of the people who have spoken loud and clear time and time again. Waste of time, money and blatant disrespect of Democracy.
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I can’t help but laugh at all the conservatives crying that the judge struck it down for political reasons. How quick you are to forget that the conservative state Supreme Court upheld the law last year, ignoring the fact that Republicans clearly broke state law in passing the bill….
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And, of course, the unions who filed the lawsuit weren’t whiny crybabies, right?
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My, my…having a little trouble sorting out difference between posters on a message board and a large collective filing a federal lawsuit today are we?
“Now, look, baby, ‘Union’ is spelled with 5 letters. It is not a four-letter word.”………….. Dorothy Parker
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It’s funny….now Chicago mayor Emanuel is going to sue to end the teachers strike. Emanuel says he will file a court injunction to force an end to the strike. He claims the strike is illegal. Wow….now you have a democrat who is actually making sense here. Emanuel want to reform a system that has failed the students of Chicago. The union is resisting the changes that are needed. The students of Chicago deserve better. This is exactly why Walker was elected not once but twice. The unions do not get it. The world has passed them by and they are trying to hang onto the past.
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And what specific state law was broken in the passage of this law?
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http://crooksandliars.com/breaking-news/wi-judge-strikes-down-scott-walkers-#comment-1851690
From May 26, 2011 Excerpt~ “In a 33-page decision issued Thursday, Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi said she would freeze the legislation because GOP lawmakers on a committee broke the state’s open meetings law in passing it March 9.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A federal judge also vacated part of Walkers Union busting law 6 months ago.
The Repubs only like the law and judges when they allow them to circumvent the law for an agenda. They tried using the law to discriminate against only certain unions, which is what this Judge was ruling as unconstitutional. There’s at least 4 judges now that have at different levels and for different sections of this Union bashing law said same thing and likewise several that have blocked his voter ID bill and it won’t be used for this coming election, the REAL short term agenda for Republicans pushing Voter ID bills.
The Repubs spin now and what Walker is claiming is that in the recall vote, the people of Wisconsin were voting to uphold the Union busting law. FAIL…they weren’t. They voted on whether to repeal their governor, clearly not same thing.
There is no doubt based upon the totally blatant ripping off of American taxpayers to pay for kickbacks to Republican corporate and wealthy donors thru tax breaks to them that if Unions donated to Republican party campaigns Republicans agenda would be to herald Unions as absolutely necessary, the greatest thing since sliced bread and defend them as vehemently and as vigorously as they’ve been defending the tax breaks to their wealthy campaign donors.
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Because, as we all know, there has never been a single case of a wealthy individual or corporate donor to a Democrat candidate. Ever.
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I’m glad that you brought that up because it’s very germane to the discussion. Some people would say that you were just playing the victim card, but you and I, DanH, know that you represent a towering intellect and an unflagging self-reliance.
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I’d argue if I could.
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In this age where special interest groups shop for a sympathetic judge, should anything surprise us anymore? Just look at the wolf hunting issue. Originally, the anti wolf hunting groups had to travel all the way to Washington DC to find a judge they could influence into deciding their way. And this was a judge who never saw a wolf and probably never even set foot in wolf country in her life. Now in Madison, we have liberal activist judges setting themselves up for a slap-down by the higher courts. County judges have found that Wisconsin’s voter ID law, a law that parallel the Indiana law the the US Supreme court upheld as constitutional, to be be unconstitutional. How does that work? A piddly little county judge has the cajones to over-rule the US Supreme court? on what grounds? The same will hold true of Scott Walker’s legislation. Wisconsin’s and the US Constitution allow the State legislators to write the laws governing their respective states…….UNLESS!….a special interest group shops for some piddly little county judge to tell SCOTUS that they don’t know what their talking about, again! Well, at least you’ve got to admire them for their tenacity.
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Hugh, I do not really disagree with you. However, do not act like both side do not do it. The Wis surpreme court most likely will overturn it, not because it is neccessarly wrong but the “Republicans” have the majority over the “Democrats”. Conservative activist judges also are a problem. Courts are becoming a joke. I do see a flaw in Mr Walkers edicts. I do not see how you can single out groups that support you, (fire and police) and reward them by allowing the right to discuss their pay and benefits, then enact revenge to those that don’t (teachers). My example of this is some Wis districts have done, but Superior School District is concidering, is rolling back everybodies pay pack to minimum and eliminate any education or experience into the equation. I also do not understand how the State can outlaw wage or working condition discussions. If the court does finds it legal. I do not see why the State cannot do that to all unions or workers. I underdstand the argument of conflict of intrest wit public unions, but that is a seperate argument that could be addressed. I do think Gov. Walker’s govenment does rule with an iron fist and we will find out how it works. We will see if wages do indeed go up and school test scores improve. I look at other staes like Mississippi which is a heavily Republican state with almost no unions. The have among the lowest wages and test scores in the country. Time will tell however.
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So you’re saying the merits of the case don’t matter, and only the makeup of the court matters? Taken to it’s logical conclusion would be that elections matter because they elect the people that make the laws and who appoint those who rubber stamp the laws? If this were true, then you guys are SOL, because the GOP is in control, right? That explains why Chief Justice Roberts voted to uphold Obamacare, right? Your reasoning has more holes in it than a sieve. Personally, I think you’re just making excuses ahead of time for this decision to be overturned on its merits.
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This law was vacated because in the opinion of the ruling judge, it violated the employees freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. This Einstein of a judge apparently failed to consider that public employment is VOLUNTARY! And he never did show how anybody’s free speech was infringed.
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“I look at other states like Mississippi which is a heavily Republican state with almost no unions. The have among the lowest wages and test scores in the country. Time will tell however.”
Then Maybe you’d better take a look at South Dakota. Their wages are low but their scores are high. How do you explain that? For years the teachers unions have said that they could do a better job if they were paid more, but score have taken a nose dive anyway.
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Again, it’s money. Cost of living in SD is lower than in Mississippi, so teachers can live a better life on a lower budget.
It’s also smaller classrooms. Mississippi is physically smaller than SD, but has almost 4 times SD’s population.
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Well for one, S. Dakota wages are pretty good now. I know more than one person making good money there. The reason they traditionally have lower wages is smaller population and lower cost of living. Until oil came there was not much there. Same with test scores, smaller population, more attention a teacher can give a student. Hugh, look at teacher/student ratios in S Dakota v. Mississippi. As far as teacher wages, so you are saying no matter what we pay these people, qualified people will go into the profession. I think you need a capitalism 101 class. Wasn’t that the concern of “Obamacare” that doctors would leave because of the money? So teachers won’t leave because of the money?
Another reason scores are going down is parents pay less attention to their kids and expect the teacher/school to raise their kid. The student knows that the teacher/school cannot do squat to them. S Dakota has a smaller population coupled by higher parent involvement along with a good teacher/student ratio. Gov. Walker has none NOTHING to improve education, keep good teachers, or improve moral so teachers are motivated to do better. It was nothing more than political payback.
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So in your round about way you’re advocating for getting rid of poorly performing teachers? What a breath of fresh air. I certainly hope your wife isn’t among those under performers.
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Here’s a thought. If parents are abrogating their parental duties to the schools, and the schools are failing, why not empower the parents to do what the schools are failing to do? Parents could parent AND teach, and we’d save a ton of money by getting rid of the excess teachers why couldn’t teach in the first place. If I was a carpenter and the houses I built kept collapsing, I’d be out of the trade in a heartbeat. WHy not failing teachers? Instead, we offer them more and more money because “this time, we promise to do better”?
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You do make a good point. The parents need to do their part. On the other hand we need to be able to get rid of underperforming teachers. The strike is Chicago was more about resisting needed reforms than wages. Chicago teachers are among the highest paid but they had some of the shortest school days and shortest school year. The teachers resisted this and demanded to be paid another 20 percent to work longer hours. This is a school district where they just celebrated a record percentage of students that graduated high school. Yes…the record percentage was 60 percent! In Duluth we are like 88 or 89 percent. 40 percent of Chicago teachers send their kids to private schools. Throwning money at the probem is not the answer. If I were a teacher in Chicago I would have to walk backward into the bank to cash my check as I would be too embarrassed to show my face.
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Seems to me that if a Judge decides to declare a law Unconstitutional that has been reviewed and passed by legislators as being Constitutional then that Judge should be held accountable for his or her decision if a higher court rules against that decision.
We have too many judges who are too willing to legislate from the bench simply because they all know that if you don’t like their ruling you can appeal it. But I wonder how willing they would be to make such rulings if they knew that if their ruling could result in their removal from the bench simply because a higher court decided that the ruling of “Unconstitutional” had no merit.
Seems to me that such an action would give all judges pause to reconsider rulings that sweep-away legislation under the guise of “Unconstitutional” simply because they don’t like it or they want to appease a political base of some sort.
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That’s a really well thought-out idea. You should share that with everyone you know.
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Mississippi also has among the highest rate of single parent families, the highest obesity rates, and among the lowest in regard to how much they value education. Since people don’t value education, they don’t fund it, and they don’t participate in it. You’d be better off comparing apples to apples, ie, comparing states with similar geographic location and demographics. The University of Wisconsin leads the nation as the top party school. Does that mean that Wisconsinites are all a bunch of drunks?
It has been proven over and over again that money doesn’t equate with education. Paying teacher more doesn’t raise test scores long term, good teachers do that, and any REAL teacher cares enough about the kids to make money a secondary issue. One needs only to look at Chicago, where salaries are the 3rd highest in the nation, averaging over $76k per year, and the teachers demanded more. They originally turned down 4% increases for 4 years, equaling more than a $13k increase from the current salary to year 4 , yet only 60% of students are expected to graduate. Why? And why pay someone $80K per year when they have a failure rate of 40% and climbing? Money clearly doesn’t improve teaching ability or we would see commensurate increases in student performances, but we don’t, because too many teachers see their occupation as a means of earning money, not as the responsibility it is of molding young minds and preparing them to be successful in life. I wonder if by success they think creating a huge demographic of under performing misfits is their calling, and by creating misfits, they cement the left’s stranglehold on gov’t services by assuring that too many people become dependent upon the gov’t for their every need. The more dependents there are, the more votes there are to continue funding for dependents.
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Hugh, I also cannot believe how much your digging on Mississippi. That is the reddest state of all. It is the perfect Republican state model. What policy in Missisppi do you not like? The GOP plan “is working” there.
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First off, bad example of all of Wis. are drunks:). 2)If a real teacher money is secondary, the a for a real doctor money is secondary so “Obamacare” will not effect a doctors. Also, if money is secondary, all real teachers must be socialist. I do not believe that. Why take a job where people like you dishonor their profession and take a job where you cannot can’t support a family and can never get a raise no matter how good you do? Real teachers to love teaching, but they are human and want to be compansated fairly for what they do. See Adam Smith, economist 3) Mississippi does not value education or fund it? Neither does Wisconsin anymore. The State and Mr Walker are following your point of funding will not effect education. He has cut billions and will cut billions more. The Walker regime is betting no matter what you pay or how you pooly treat someone or how hostle a work envioment is, qualified people will flock to that profession and bust their hump. That is a theroy that will be tested. I am eager for test scores in the coming years. We will see if you are correct sir. 3) Chicago is a different story. First of all a DEM stood up to them and said no. That is what is suppose to happen. He did not disband them and call them thugs or talked about crushing those bas*****. The strike was not about money. Rather how heavily testing alone would effect their jobs. Students in a AP class in the suburbs will do better than students in the inner-city more often then not. A proper rubik is needed to evaluate teachers and weed out the bad ones and reward the good. There are a few bad apples out there as in any profession. I do not think it is the majority. So you could have the best teacher in history, and they still might not get great scores from some students. 4) Tell me Hugh, why is fire and police exempt, would not a real fireman or police officer do their job regardless of pay? Why not use more volunteer fire and more neighborhood watch and we could get rid of more fire and police. These are your arguments.
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Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach. A teaching degree is about the easiest degree to get that still provides for a reasonable income after graduation. So you’re advocating that we pay teachers, many of whom took the easiest way through school, aka, laziest way through school, and pay them on par with those students who took real disciplines in the sciences and engineering? That’s socialism for ya!
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This is what these arguments inevitably boil down to. Republicans simply think that all teachers are bad teachers. Taking money out of the school system is always a good thing, because every teacher is a lazy slacker who took the easiest way through school.
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A math teacher still needs a math degree. A science teachers still needs a science degree. etc. 1) You have no idea what socialism is apperantly. I am saying capalism will play a role and qualified people will not go into it. 2) You seem to believe it is the easiest job out there. I challenge you to do it a year and still tell me that. (If you could get the degree) I also would like to see the test scores of the students you get. You do not even have the SLIGHTEST clue what a good teacher does. 3) Wis. is doing it your way. We will find out. I am agreeing with you. If you are right, test scores will not change or even improve. The theory of low pay, low benefits and being treating them like “taking the laziest way though college”. will work. I guess in your version of capitlaism it will “work”. 4) Why even have a teaching degree? why not just hire someone out of high school and have them do it? 4) What degree do fireman or police have. Generally, no degree is necessary. So again in your argument, how are they not as lowlife as teacher. 5) that little quote about teaching has to be on of the top 10 most ignorent of all time. Go Mississippi!!!!!
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INCORRECTAMUNDO! I personally know a math teacher who only needed his teaching certificate and a math minor. Then they asked him if he was interested in teaching physics. All he needed to do was take physics one and two. Two classes is hardly a degree. It’s not even a minor. Engineering students take more math and more physics than do teachers and they don’t get degrees in those fields.
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When you’re right, you’re right. It is indeed true that you don’t need a Math major to teach high school mathematics, and you don’t need a Physics degree to teach Intro to Physics.
So you’re saying that we should make the following improvements to our education system:
1. Make it harder to become a teacher, by requiring more education.
2. Make it easier to fire teachers.
3. Reduce teacher salaries and benefits.
Am I missing anything?
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Well a minor is still part of a degree. Although I did mean major. Still a teaching certifacate is still not “easy”. I will admit to being half wrong. (Now I can never be a Republican).
Vune, that is well stated. You get what you pay for. Hugh, first I cannot believe you talk to such lowlives. Second, if you think the product is bad now where is going to go. Third, answer the queston about fire and police!!
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But, still, I bet if you look, most teachers do have a major in their field.
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“So you’re saying that we should make the following improvements to our education system:
1. Make it harder to become a teacher, by requiring more education.
2. Make it easier to fire teachers.
3. Reduce teacher salaries and benefits.
Am I missing anything?”
Probably, but that’s not my problem. However, if your goal is to improve education, as opposed to improving teacher’s compensation, these things are a good place to start. From the nineties on, the mantra was that in order to compete in the new job market, you’ll need additional higher tech training. If this is true for the general market, why shouldn’t it also apply to teaching, as well? Why shouldn’t teaching move forward with the rest of the world? Teacher training remains about the same today as it was 35 years ago.
If you want better teachers, you raise educational requirements. Pretty simple, eh? Offering more money will only serve to attract those who are motivated more by money and less so by the duties and responsibilities of the job.
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“Offering more money will only serve to attract those who are motivated more by money and less so by the duties and responsibilities of the job.”
That’s a very interesting point that you bring up. Do you know of any other careers that attracted more qualified workers by reducing salary and benefits?
“Teacher training remains about the same today as it was 35 years ago.”
This is incorrect. Teacher training HAS moved forward with the rest of the world. You can learn more about what a teacher has to go through to get certified by following this link:
http://www.alleducationschools.com/education-careers/article/how-to-become-a-teacher
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One of my most favorite quotes, “Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach.” So, if I can “do” math, teaching math is a negative. If I can build a bridge, why would I teach anyone to build one? If I can cook, teaching someone to cook is a ridiculous idea. That quote is thrown out so many times whenever a “teacher” argument comes up. I teach inclusive preschool, so with Hugh’s analogy I can’t BE a 4 year old with autism, so I TEACH 4 year olds with autism. Sound about right? I would agree that teaching programs aren’t as rigorous as engineering or medical school, but lives aren’t at stake either. However, the job itself is far from easy and most people not in the teaching field would run screaming from the building when faced with what teachers are faced with today.
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All I said was that a teaching degree is among the easiest to earn. It’s you two who are denigrating teachers. I was pointing out how well teachers are paid for a degree that takes about half the effort to earn as a physics or engineering degree. Many an engineer has applied for a teaching position and rebuffed. The reason? Overqualified. Who else gets paid $76K for 8 months (2/3rds time) of work and complains about not getting paid enough but the thugs they call teachers in Chicago?
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Denigrating teachers is all you’ve done. You just keep repeating that they’re overpaid, that their job is easy, and that they’re thugs. All I’ve done is summarize your arguments.
I know that you’re fond of the phrase “better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.” Is that why you’re not answering any of Andy’s questions?
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1) what are you talking about 8 months? The school year alone Sept to June which is over nine months. That does not include setting up and putting away classrooms. You are also required to continue education and plan new lessons during your “off time”.
2) Again a GOPer picks an extreme case in Chicago and not the norm. The average teacher in Wis is $52,000 starting at $32,000. Now, the State is cutting saleries down to minimum. While 52K is OK, I do not think it is exessive. Again, do tht job for a year and tell me it is easy and you are overpaid. So quit with the class warfare.
3) Back to point. Why is it OK for the Government and the Govenor to pick political winners and losers? Fire and Police are exempt. Why? I just do understand how the State can stop people from asking about their overall work conditions. We will see how the Misissippi model works. What are you so worried about. You are getting everything you want. Lower pay, treated poorly, and lowering their status as a productive member in society. These are glorious times in Wis. Time will prove you right or wrong.
4) How many engineers do you know that get rejected from a job as a teacher for being over-qualified. I mean since a teaching certificate is easy, take a week or so and get one and get a job. Why a qualified engineer would want a teaching job is beyond me. I personally think anyone in this day and age getting into the profession is NUTS. I to agree with point Hugh, No one should want to be a teacher anymore.
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Failed at math, did you? Sept-May = 9 months, now subtract 2 weeks at Christmas, another week for spring break, Thanksgiving, Inservices, faux federal holidays, and you get about 8 months. To quote the famous song: “nice work if you can get it, and you can get it if you try”….just don’t try too hard or you’ll end up an engineer or something.
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I think overlooking the obvious. “True Believers” are wary of facts, logic, and supportive evidence, because facts often don’t support the cherished beliefs they hold by faith (blind and uncritical acceptance). When reality contradicts their ideological tenets, they lie without compunction, having faith that their ideology trumps reality, and that they’re lying for the greater good. ………Explains a lot, doesn’t it?
“Let’s be blunt and acknowledge the biggest threat to the world’s biggest economy are the cranks and crazies that have taken over the Republican Party,” Australian Deputy PM. Wayne Swan, one of few world leaders able to boast his country had avoided recession during the global financial crisis
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Oh, so nine minus one does not equally eight? How silly of me.
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Hugh ….I agree with at least some of what you have said. Your math is correct….kids end up going to school about 8 months out of the year. I think teachers are being paid a fair wage …..I don’t think paying them more will help our students test scores. On the other hand….I don’t think teachers should be paid 30 grand a year. We need a longer school year….maybe rethink the entire schedule. But then the teachers union will strike like they did in Chicago. What a crime……The kids deserve better. Lets not forget…..the parents have some ownership in all of this.
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Andy…lets take Chicago as an example. The Democrats have been in charge in the windy city since forever. You have huge numbers of families living in poverty. The teachers are among the highest paid anywhere. Chicago had some of the shortest school days and school year. The graduation rate is around 60 percennt. The school system is a total fail across the board. And yet the teachers union resists any attempt to reform the system. Now…..if Chicago were under Republican leadership you would have all the fingers pointed at them. Even the Democratic mayor of Chicago can see the need to change the system. But no……public opinion in Chicago went for the teachers. So who do you blame for the fact that minority students in Chicago are underperforming in school??? Its a crime that so few of them go on to earn a degree after high school. And that so many of them are looking at a lifetime in poverty. But yet the Democrats have everyone buying into the idea that they are the savior to the poor. How is this working in Chicago? Not too well.
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