OUR OPINION: Double-check assumptions about speeding-ticket fines
August 28, 2012 at 4:30 pm in Grand Forks Herald
The news that banning cell phones does not seem to reduce car accidents should spark the curiosity of anyone interested in traffic safety. Continue Reading
“And the highways today are safer still: “In 1995, the last year of the national 55-mph speed limit, there were 1.73 deaths per 100 million miles. The rate has dropped every year since but one, and now stands at the lowest recorded in 60 years, 1.13.”
How much do safer cars have to do with the lower rate? To attribute fewer fatalities to higher speed limits sounds like Libertarian propaganda from a right wing think tank.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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They may not be as many fatalities due to safer vehicles. I would assume though that there are more people living with disabilities caused by traffic accidents.
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I don’t have the particulars, but a few years back there was a study of highway traffic someplace where there was going to be a raise in the speed limits. They did a study of the traffic after the speed limit was raised for a while in the same place where it had been studied when considering raising the speed limit. They found that even with the raise people seemed to run at speeds they were comfortable with. Basically the same amount of people still ran between 60 to 65 when the limit was 65 as when it was raised to 70. Their conclusion was basically pretty obvious……People will basically run within 10 mph up or down of the speed limit according to their personal comfort zone. So set the speed at say 65 if you are ok with people running 70 to 73.
I know when I cruise back or forth from fargo at 75 to keep my guzzling SUV from guzzling so much I get passed up like I’m running under the speed limit…..What really gets me after paying $70 for gas having someone pass me up in a big four wheel drive pickup pulling a boat or trailer doing around 80 or more……..I call that bragging….”I got so much money I can just run at around 8 miles to a gallon……Or better yet….A big camper pulling a car passing me around 80…..”I’m just swimming in money here so I can afford to run at around 4 miles to a gallon……
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You know those so called “Smart Cars” …..Or as I call them…Enclosed Golf Carts….Every time I see one of those I immediately think “Death Trap”. I just don’t see what’s smart about a vehicle that offers no protection……I don’t know if that go-cart motor in those things can push much more than 60…..But why would you want to?
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There is no doubt that cell phone use causes inattention to the task of driving. There is also some evidence that legislation against cell phone use has not had much impact. However, to use those bits of info to conclude that cell phone use is NOT dangerous is a giant leap of counter-intuitive logic.
Of course, scientific hypotheses have been disproven innumerable times — after all, that’s how science proceeds! But until alternative hypotheses (such as legislation has just made users hide the phones better) are tested, no definitive conclusions can be drawn.
I know anecdotes are not data — but my own experience suggests that drivers seen phoning or (especially) texting are a menace to other road users!
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For those of us with CDL’s we have to have hands free set ups to use phones while driving or face big fines. My company made this absolutly clear as it was about to happen because if it isn’t in the companies drivers policy the company can get fined too. That said, and knowing the size of the fines…..I’m amazed at how often I still see some truck drivers with a phone up to their ear.
Phones like the speed we go are things that really are handled differently across the board by different people. One thing that really burns my arse is when one of those fools will come riping by me about 10mph faster than I’m going and then a few miles down the road I pass the fool who is going 5 or 10 mph under the speed limit and blocking traffic in the general lane so he can talk with a phone up to his ear. Unfortuantely they don’t have roads set up for those of us who use common sense and who can chew gum and walk at the same time so often those of us who can handle things like being on a blue tooth and driving with attention (No different than talking to somone in the seat next to you) or driving a bit faster end up having to be penalized because of the fools who can’t……
Before these damn elogs it was great to be able to run from late night into the early morning hours (Especially in big cities). The vast majority of the timid and foolish drivers were at home so you didn’t have them to contend with. Since elogs where we’re forced to do everything exactly by the book we can’t run late nights or we end up having to sit sometimes until noon or later…..So we get all that wonderful traffic to deal with…..In general though….I’m glad I’m in a big truck insead of a small car when I do….Too many dips by far…..And USUALLY…..They can actually see my big truck……
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There is an increased use of car washes in the last decade. Accidents are down. Ergo, clean cars result in fewer accidents. C’mon Herald. Go back to school and review your notes on cause and effect.
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It’s pretty clear that the threat of fines do not act as a deterrent, whether it be speeding, seat belts, cell phone use, or DUI. Just saw three cars get ticketed for parking on a street during street sweeping day, while their driveways were empty.
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No scientific study here, just general observation. I think I see more speeding on I-94 in North Dakota that I do in Minnesota. Maybe truck drivers would be able to either support or contradict my observations because they live on the road.
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My experience in ND on 29 and 94 is most are going 80+. 94 in MN 75-80.
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Gene the speed limit is 70 in MN and 75 in ND so they are going the same speed over the limit in both states.
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Getting a speeding ticket in ND is a lot cheaper than MN.
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The question that is never asked:
Are the speed limits set properly?
The clear answer is “no”. That is the heart of the matter. Speed limits are typically set 30% too slow; therefore penalties for exceeding the limit are COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE–at least up to the point where speed actually correlates with safety.
BEST PRACTICE for speed limits is to set them to the nearest 5 mph of the “85th Percentile of free-moving traffic”. In other words, set them at the speed that accommodates the slowest 85% of vehicles. I do not know of ONE SINGLE MILE of North Dakota roadways that have speed limits based on this system.
This revision of the speed limit fines is another revenue-raising and power-grab tactic of a crooked politician and former highway patrol officer. Seems he couldn’t get enough of pushing the public around in his previous position, so now he’s going to bully us as a legislator. This is pretty much a repeat of what he proposed in the last legislative session, except that it’s worse because it’s more extensive.
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That’s why we need to have slower traffic move right. Let those who no what the speed limit should be run the roads, right Shurkey?
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I’m not too sure I agree with you on general speeds, but I know you’re right when it comes to construction speed in places like around Chicago. They’ll have several miles of road marked as construction zone (Even though the construction is done over night) and at 45mph day or night. They could just slap up a sign when they’re about to start construction, but I’ve come to realize that they run it at 45 to keep the general traffic at 55 to 60 because if they kept it at 55 or 60 then people would be running 70 or 75 and it’d be much more dangerous trying to slow them down when they started to set up for construction. People from Shy Town seem to think they’re always in a hurry and if there’s something like a lane shut down then it’s their right to push to the front of the line to get in before those who actuall adhere to the signs and merge over to line up…..That’s when some of us big trucks take amtters in hand and run side by sid to block these fools from rushing to the front of the line and causing all that stop and go crap. I have to say that in MN and ND I’ve been impressed for years how people get it and will line up like the signs tell them to. we might have to go a little slower for a few minutes, but with everyone in line we just continue to move on through……I don’t understand how people from Shy Town can’t get that basic concept, but a lot of them can’t
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There’s really only one reason for traffic tickets: Ca-ching! It’s when that becomes expected revenue and is factored into budgets that the cops start getting quotas.
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I can guarantee that the increased fines is more than likely being spearheaded by Fargo. After the West Fargo lady (Sauby I think was her name) sued Fargo over their speeding ticket costs, they Fargo Attorney was on Heitcamp’s show. He made a statement that the ‘City needed those funds’. That statement right there led me to believe that yes, Fargo does indeed have some sort of a quota system.. They wouldn’t ‘need’ the money if it wasn’t part of the budget. How do you include money in a budget without having quotas of some sort?
But then King Denny also really needs that half cent sales tax for flood relief and ‘other’ operational costs as well.
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Reminds me when John the Cop ruled in Thompson. He must have supplied half the town’s budget. Problem was, the town got known as a speed trap and people quit driving through it, hence no business revenue.
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Comes the end of the month in a lot of places (Some states more than others) you’ll see a lot of speed traps. Funny how this happens more at the end of the month than any other time. Any wonder how the public gets the idea it’s all about meeting a quota?
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Many years ago the CHP asked for a higher budget to raise patrolman salaries. The CA legislature said no. So they started giving warnings to everyone instead of ticketing. After 2 weeks they got their raise.
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Why are people in such a hurry?
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Come on TJ……You’ve never noticed that question really is only asked if you yourself are not in a hurry? I know if I’m not in a hurry I sure can be critical of those who are, but if I have an “Important” need to speed someplace then it’s, “What the hells a matter with you people? Are you Asleep At The Wheel (Damn good group) or something?”
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Also: you ever notice how everyone else drives like maniacs except you when you’re out there? I know….it amazes me every time too….
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Why are people in such a hurry? Because they don’t give themselves enough time to get from one place to another. They put their lives and lives of others in danger on account of their inability to make better use of their time.
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Here’s one for you TJ….When I was a kid magizines like Popular Mechanics and Popular Science used to run articles about things like jet packs or at least little one or two seat helicopters that we’d be using before the turn of the century. Aw!!!!! Wouldn’t that be nice? Flying around everyplace we wanted to go? Only with no roads and other earthly items to keep us in some sort of order….And then add the speeders and the people who’d get so used to flying that they start texting or whatever…….Obviously we could all be flying little helicopters, but fortunately the costs and practability is such that we don’t..
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I can just imagine Spearman having the time of his life.
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Tj, that’s not always the case. When our son was born, he was in Rochester for 2 months. We made 6 trips there. 6 hours is a long time from GF. I sped, maybe 5-10 miles over, but I still sped. I’m older now, I try to obey the speed limit, but some cases, it’s worth to speed a bit.
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Cell phones. Many people can not handle these while driving. It is one thing to talk away and daydrea.m while driving down a country road in the middle of nowhere, but you shold be attentive in 80 mph traffic next to a 18 wheeler and a car behind you. Use common sense there are a lot of times I will tell the person to hold on or barely respond to the person I am on the phone with. I do this so I can pay attention to who is in front behind or next to me so I can always give myself an out if something happens. I will not even answer the phone if I really need to pay attention and call them back when I reach a long clear stretch of roads. I believe cell phones have there place if used PROPERLY in the car.
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Here’s something a bit strange…Thursday there was an article about how this hurricane suddenly caused a huge jump in gas prices around town. Many of us commented on the total BS of these stations being allowed to rise prices like that when there’s no reason…..Especially sice there’s no competition in prices between stations…….By later afternoon the article was completely pulled….Completely pulled? Can’t help but wonder just how much actual freedom of the press we still have if the powers that be can get articles pulled and message boards pulled that criticize them
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The Herald shows itself to be the “people’s paper” by never running anything critical about its advertisers.
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” just how much actual freedom of the press we still have”
There’s plenty of freedom of the press. The Herald has to freedom to report what it wants and bury the rest.
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I was just in Fargo where the station by our shop (Cenex) has gas at $3.65………Forks it’s $3.85……This is just wrong. It was bad enough when it was a nickel more, but twenty cents more? This is the second time it’s been that much higher in the last month………Oh…..I get it…..This is real good gas were Fargo gets the inferior stuff…..Ya….That must be what’s going on…….And soon pigs will grow wings and fly…….
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The old adage about ones father being “in oil” was meant as a joke to describe fathers who really only owned gas station. But maybe these days it is true that owning a gas station is like owning an oil well, especially if you own a few gas stations.
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Tundra, you seem like an older gentleman. Therefore you should know its happened In the past. It’s been this way for along time. Way off topic, how do you like driving OTR? I have a couple of friends that do, and have thought about it myself.
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