by Duluth News Tribune
August 19, 2012 at 7:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
Alvin Berg and Vince Nelson made history three weeks ago by opening Duluth’s first gay bar.
Tags: arts, Arts and Entertainment, Business, downtown, Entertainment 75 Comments »
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Why isn’t there a gay grocery store? Or a gay gas station? Maybe Duluth could use a gay Walmart or a gay restaurant.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 29 102
Nice to see that Forum Communications takes this place seriously, and assumes that is a trolling post. Good job on being a professional organization.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 44 18
Fourm didn’t censor him. If you get 10 more thumbs down than thumbs up the site automatically hides the post. You can see it by clicking on it (not that I recommend it in the above case).
Hot debate. What do you think? 26 14
Yes, the Forum DID censor him. They took away his vowels. That doesn’t happen automatically.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 33 9
If you hold your mouse over the “[Where are the vowels?]” thing, it will say.
Dumb thing for Forum Communications, dumb.
Like or Dislike: 18 11
I thought the man asked valid questions. Aren’t all businesses for the general public? Someone was super sensitive here. A mistake was made and should be corrected. This was far from offensive. He raised reasonable questions.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 30 13
It could easily be construed as trolling.
Asking those questions is essentially questioning the existence of gay bars in general.
The purpose of a gay bar is so those at the bar know it is safe to approach a person as a potential gay mate.
If you were gay, would you be comfortable walking up to a guy in the Tailgate bar and asking if you could buy him a drink? Approaching a guy there with an offer is kinda like walking up to a lit firework hoping it won’t go off in your face.
But if a guy is in a gay bar, it is fairly safe to assume he is gay or gay-friendly and that your approach will not cause drama.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 33 12
I find it interesting that his questions have become a part of the discussion. He asked valid questions and should not have been censored. The likes/dislikes would have taken care of the issues. I don’t see where he broke any of the three rules for conduct on these boards.
He was civil. He stayed on topic…at least in my opinion. No profanity, no vulgarity, no racial slurs, or personal attacks. He didn’t harrass anybody neither did he joke about a tragedy.
He asked why there weren’t any grocery stores, gas stations, Walmarts, or restaurants designated as gay. Why a bar but not any of the others? I am wondering why that was found to be offensive. Can’t we ask about something so simple?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 28 10
Why are there no Sports Grocery Stores? Why are there no Karaoke Wal-Marts?
That’s the kind of question you’re asking. If this were a story about a Dance Bar opening up, and I decided to ask why there are no Dance Gas Stations, I would be trolling you.
But I agree that removing the vowels is a terrible way of dealing with trolls. If a post isn’t offensive enough to warrant removing it entirely, just let the thumbs up/down system deal with it.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 11
Think the word you were looking for was TRAWLING not trolling unless you think all the patrons look like those ugly little people who lurk in the mythological Norse forests.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 9 26
Insinuating that he grunts is demeaning. It is offensive…not the man’s comment. It’s rude and I wonder why this has happened. It is indeed reprehensible. I am annoyed by this. Instead of belittling him the comment should have been removed. I’m not a fan of the man but this is so unkind. We are not all cut from the same cloth. The world would be a dull place if we all felt the same way. This is censorship and I am indeed angry.
Like or Dislike: 14 7
“Insinuating that he grunts is demeaning.”
Not to worry. Dead is really familiar with demeaning, offensive, reprehensible and unkind.
I really doubt he takes anything that’s said/done here personally anymore. Pretty much the same way most folks don’t take his comments personally anymore.
As far as your anger about the censorship of his post…it really doesn’t matter too much, as most of us have discovered at one time or another.
Area Voices is a format that’s provided free of charge by Forum Communications.
As users of the free site we have two choices… accept how they choose to do things or, quit posting and reading here.
Like or Dislike: 5 8
Who appointed you Queen? I will do as I please your majesty now step aside. You are blocking my view. And by the way….the man has a heart. Stop being so shallow.
Like or Dislike: 10 6
“I will do as I please your majesty now step aside. You are blocking my view.”
LMAO….For real? I think you might be taking all this a little too seriously.
Since you appeared to be relative newbie here, just thought I’d give you a heads up about how far all your anger and demands would get you with the AV Mods.
Feel free to continue with your little temper tantrum, child.
Whatever blows your hair back.
Like or Dislike: 3 7
HRH Katydid, I’m relatively new to the Duluth News Tribune but I have been on Area Voices since inception. It is easy for me to spot the contributors that think highly of themselves. Your opinion is just your opinion. Now please step aside. You are blocking the sun.
Like or Dislike: 5 7
Best of luck on your new venture.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 60 32
This makes is much more convenient for God to focus lightening strikes, having the gays rounded up in one place and all.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 46 100
Sarcasm, people. Relax.
Hot debate. What do you think? 35 35
LOL…obviously you don’t spend enough time here anymore.
People are not familiar with your special brand of humor.
Hot debate. What do you think? 21 27
I got the joke, but I’ve heard it so many times it isn’t funny anymore.
“Hahaha, God hates gay people! Get it?”
Hot debate. What do you think? 11 19
Yeah, I doubt that Mac thinks it’s very funny either.
You might wanna get to know him a little better.
Then, his sarcasm might be a little easier to understand.
Like or Dislike: 6 11
Thanks for sharing. I’m familiar with the blog, but I didn’t know Mac wrote it.
I get the spirit in which the comment was made. I was just trying to explain that a dislike might not mean what you think it means. And that a joke about God smiting a building full of people just for being gay, regardless of who’s telling it, is offensive to many people (often for different reasons).
Or maybe I’m just in search of something to complain about, and I’m tired of criticizing the same people. Who knows what really motivates anyone?
Like or Dislike: 2 11
My impression was it looks like a cool place to hang out whether it’s a gay establishment or not. I couldn’t care less if I tried about someone’s sexual preference.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 79 30
Tj , well said.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 52 23
Tj…I second quagmire..well said..
“There is hardly anyone whose sexual life, if it were broadcast, would not fill the world at large with surprise and horror. ”
W. Somerset Maugham
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 41 21
I think you had good intentions with your comment, but why do you feel the need to explain that you don’t care about anyone’s sexual preference? Why can’t you say that it looks like a cool place to hang out, and leave it at that?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 21 46
I read the other comments Vune before I commented. It was what I felt at the time. Why do you feel the need to analyze my comment? Are you judging me over a few simple words?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 53 5
I asked those questions because your statement is a backhanded compliment. I want you to think about why you felt the need to explain that you don’t care about sexual orientation.
And yes, I’m judging you over a few simple words. Sorry. I’ve already come up with a few different answers to my own question, and they make more sense than the answer you gave. Fortunately, I don’t know you, and you don’t know me, so what I think you think doesn’t matter.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 58
Vune, I get the feeling this is personal and no matter what I say you are going to pick it apart. I meant no harm and I have nothing to feel bad about.
You’re right on all counts.
Except that last point. Everybody has something to feel bad about.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 48
Vune~ I usually like your posts but this has me baffled. I think you’re splitting hairs, not that have anything against bald people of course, why some of my best friends are bald and I’m getting there myself but that doesn’t mean that have anything against people with hair either because still have some and some of my friends still have all their hair…I just didn’t want you to read too much into my comment that wasn’t there, I’m down with folks with hair and bald people and don’t judge folks based on that so you know..nudge & LOL But apparently to you that all really means I have a deep rooted, yup, pun intended LMAO, issue with folks with hair.
The headline is pretty clear…Duluth opens first gay bar….so I don’t see where comment is out of line and whether she said as she did, that she could care less about that, or she didn’t mention it because she could care less, I see as same thing. The facts are we have are an announcement of Gay Bar opening and Tj saying she could care less about that…anything beyond that is merely you thinking you can read minds thru a monitor IMHO.
It’s kinda ironic that you are judging her not on her words but what you think she was maybe thinking then reprimanding her for what YOU think SHE thought. Kinda made me go…huh?, oh, really?
I had a mind reader but he died, so I can’t help you with that so all I know is that on a message all we have are our words and you have to take them at face value most of the times. Unless you have some conflicting proof that shows anything contrary by TJ or can prove your supposition, you have to take her statement as factual…and you saying you know what she was thinking doesn’t count btw…
But maybe am wrong…since my mind reader died have been kinda lost…are you willing to do consulting gigs?
Please don’t take all this tongue n cheek by me too seriously, just trying some levity for you to think about what you’re saying…no real offense meant but then again..LMAO~~>
“May all those that judge others burn in hell” Bertrand Russel
Hot debate. What do you think? 28 19
Fastone, I think you had good intentions with your comment, but why do you feel the need to explain that you mean no offense? Why can’t you make your point, and leave it at that?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 6 38
Vune…~muttering as walking to exit~~ ~~ohforgawdsakeswth?~…click
Hot debate. What do you think? 23 11
Okay, if you don’t want to play that game, let’s try another.
I’m pretty sure that when you read my last posts, you gave me an angry & sarcastic voice.
Try reading them all again, only this time, give me a calm & sincere voice.
Does the meaning change?
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 3 37
It’s about 30 years overdue, but nonetheless, a great feat for anyone who understands Duluth’s uptight and bizarre past which apparently had no problems with men from rustbelt American cities coming to Duluth to pimp and drug up underage Duluth girls only a block away, but gay people, who are often single, without kids, WITH jobs, WITH college degrees; law abiding and generally kind people? Nope, can’t have that. Keep on sending in these guys who are here to do anything they want to your daughters while threatening to harm their entire family should they say a word. The result? Look at the blight on 2nd Ave E & 1st St to see what 40-50 years of that complacency has done: so many people in Duluth are terrified of the people who’ve come to Duluth to harm anyone and everyone in their path; create unwanted pregnancies, commit robberies and sexual assaults on underage girls, and do anything besides work; yet this city has been welcoming to these men because the majority of you are physically terrified of them. You know they’d beat you up so badly you’d need a feeding tube for the next 20 years. But you turn and bash gay people, whom you have no physical fear of, instead.
Hopefully this new generation has seen past their parents’ idiocy and reached some new conclusions about respect and tolerance. At the same time, intolerance for those who’ve come to cities like Duluth to harm otherwise naive, trusting, good-hearted people.
Hot debate. What do you think? 38 47
Who cares if you are gay or not. They pay taxes like everyone else. And the bar pays the same liquor taxes. Get over yourselves. Another business that adds to the tax base of Duluth–so quit the BS and embrace a new business.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 60 23
Way to go Duluth, just a little bit further down the slippery slope !
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 26 72
The first gay bar in Duluth? Sorry, but the Fitgers Tap Room claimed that honor many years ago.
Anyway, good luck with the new venture, Duluth’s newest gay bar
Hot debate. What do you think? 26 24
Disagree with the Tap Room, but the Red Star is definitely a gay bar.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 33 11
and you know this …how…??? lol only one way you could know that “definitely”
Like or Dislike: 4 10
Ever walked by that place Levi?
Like or Dislike: 5 4
cant say i have……but by your answer they would have to be kissing passionately out on the street for you to be correct otherwise you are have a preconceived notion of what someone gay looks like or does.
Like or Dislike: 1 6
The lightning joke…probably a little mistimed although funny due to the 8 struck 2 days ago with a fatality.
Good luck, more development for downtown….and a cool location.
Hot debate. What do you think? 16 18
Both the Tap Room and Red Star don’t qualify as gay bars…..They are metrosexuals staring at themselves in a bathroom mirror bars.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 35 15
Horrible location, little-to-no parking…..it’ll fold soon.
Hot debate. What do you think? 13 21
That’s what’s great about the suburbs, right Winner Winner, lots of parking.
Like or Dislike: 2 2
What makes it a “gay” bar? Is it a place where I can go and get a beer and some snacks? Can I watch a game? Then it’s just a bar. Seriously, how does it differ? If I go with my wife and hold her hand, will I get stared at? If I was gay and went to a “non-gay” bar, would I be stared at for the same behavior? I guess moving here from a large city makes me wonder because there I can go to any bar and see gay couples and straight couples.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 26 8
I’m not sure but isn’t that the point the man who was disemvoweled was trying to make? Why would the gay community wish to be segregated? I thought they wanted to be one with us….equality and all of that stuff they claim they want when they fuss about gay marriages. Why not a black bar…a white bar…an obese bar…a Jewish bar…a men’s bar? It makes me wonder how well those would be received by the public. Why do we accept this from the gays? It’s strange at best.
Hot debate. What do you think? 30 17
Maybe a better term would be gay-themed bar just like a sports-theme bar or a 1950′s theme-bar. I do wonder what an obese-themed bar would look like though. lol
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 31 6
sometimes I laugh so hard when I read this stuff…this is one of them…
Like or Dislike: 19 5
That actually made me spit out my coffee… thanks!
Like or Dislike: 10 3
Chet! Chet! Please! If you’re going to be so demure would you practice first? “What makes a gay bar different?” You’re having a laugh. I presume from your comment that in the BIG CITY where you moved from gay guys and lesbians routinely lock lips in the sports bars, hold hands as they stroll through mall, have cozy picnics on a summer’s day in the park and grope each other on the dance floors of all the clubs after a few drinks. Yeah, in a month of Sundays! Which big city did you say?,,,, Omaha?
Like or Dislike: 18 10
(pssst…Blighty…he’s not really confused about anything. It’s just part of the game.)
Like or Dislike: 12 7
Quag, theme is the more appropriate choice. Great call on that nuance. Language is sometimes complex, but you hit the home run.
Like or Dislike: 11 8
If it had been open in July the State Rep would not have had to use Craig’s list..
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 30 10
Yea, cause there are a whole lot of 17 year old kids hanging out at the bar.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 10 20
Maybe they could offer shuttle service to and from Thompson Hill for a small fee, make a few bucks. Just trying to help here.
Hot debate. What do you think? 18 15
Nothing to see here, move along…some people need to get out and see the rest of the world. It may change your mind or not. If you were blind how would you know?
Like or Dislike: 7 11
I wonder how quick lawsuits would fly if we opened up a “heterosexual bar” or a white male only bar… Just sayin…
Like or Dislike: 14 8
The bar is not exclusionary in any way.
It’s not a GAY bar…it’s a gay friendly bar.
The distinction has to be made so that the segment of the population that gets queasy at just the thought of two men holding hands, much less anything else, is forwarned as to what might go on there.
Like or Dislike: 8 8
The title of the article is “Duluth’s first gay bar opens downtown”, not “Duluth’s first gay friendly bar opens downtown”. This is what’s killing this country, taking something that’s already politically correct and forcing a new political correctness so that all the life and humanity is stripped from the phrase. Political correctness is already awful enough. It doesn’t need to be taken to a new level.
Like or Dislike: 9 2
I don’t think Katy is “forcing a new political correctness” on anyone. She’s just trying to explain that “gay bar” doesn’t mean “homosexuals only.”
The people insinuating that gay bars are discriminatory are the ones playing the PC police here. As if it’s some kind of crime that we now have one bar in town whose target market isn’t heterosexuals.
I don’t think you’re angry about political correctness, and I think you understand that nightclubs and grocery stores have different business models. What is it about this that’s upsetting you?
Like or Dislike: 7 3
Having a “gay bar” is stating that they are entitled to special needs and privileges because they chose to be gay. It’s wrong. It’s not any different than unions or welfare abusers or non-smokers. There aren’t any groups that should be entitled to have separate buildings, or anything else aligned to their specific lifestyle, based completely on a lifestyle choice. It’s segregation. What’s wrong with a bar being a bar? The bar down the street not good enough for you? They made their choice and because they did, they believe they are entitled to have a second version of everything else in the world specifically catered to them. It’s nothing more eloquent than attention mongering to push an agenda that would require special circumstances just for them. I hate to burst their bubble but they aren’t anything special and require no more than the next person does. They have a hard time dealing with a world that is a majority of heterosexuals? Too bad. No one forced them to make the choice they did. Suck it up and live in the same world with the rest of everybody else instead of trying to remake it in their own image.
Dead, we’ve explained why it’s not segregation, or a special need, or a privilege. You’re just trying to justify your anger. The owners of the Flame chose to market their business towards a particular demographic, and they’re free to do that. I’m sorry that you find the existence of that demographic so offensive, but that’s your problem to deal with.
If you’re really concerned that a bar should just “be a bar,” there are plenty of bars like that for you to pick from. Nobody’s going to force you to go to the Flame.
They’re not the ones having a hard time dealing with the world. You are. Take your own advice. Suck it up and start living in the same world as the rest of us.
Like or Dislike: 6 9
Let us try this scenario. Say perhaps a topless bar had opened recently in Duluth and this article was covering that story. If Dead Inside has asked why there were no topless grocery stores, etc. would his comment have been censored? I highly dobt it. The truth is the gays get special treatment. They are protected unlike any other group. This is my point. His first comment was not offensive. It was inquisitive. Yet he was censored because this story is about a gay bar. He wasn’t rude. He didn’t demean the gays. He asked a few questions that is all. He made me think why this is okay in our society. Like I said in the beginning, someone was super sensitive. The vowels should be put back in his comment. A wrong should be righted, in my opinion. He was made fun of by someone who watches over us. Is that right? No it is not.
Like or Dislike: 9 3
Unfortunately for us, nobody would ever propose a topless grocery store. It’s absurd, just like DA’s comment.
He’s not being inquisitive. He’s being wilfully ignorant. He knows that people go to nightclubs and grocery stores for different reasons. He just doesn’t like gay people. Correct me if I’m wrong on that, I don’t want to pretend to be a mind reader, but I feel he’s made that perfectly clear.
And if you really think homosexuals are a protected class, I would encourage you to discuss that with an actual homosexual at some point in your life.
“They’re not the ones having a hard time dealing with the world. You are. Take your own advice. Suck it up and start living in the same world as the rest of us.”
Well, it seems to me that they quite obviously are having a hard time dealing with the real world if they feel the need to sequester themselves away in gay utopia. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. People are somewhat free to do what they want to do as long as they don’t expect everything to be catered to them specifically. And that’s the exact circumstance I’m referring to when you call a bar a gay bar. What will be next that has to be prefixed by “gay”? Gay marriage? Gay pride? Bars, marriage and pride are things that everyone can involve themselves in without drawing unneeded attention to themselves by the gay label or any other goofy label. Labeling it to draw attention only draws bad attention to it, not good.
Like or Dislike: 8 4
Calling it a gay bar only draws bad attention from those who dislike gay people. But if you’re against the term, just call it The Flame.
Gay Marriage is becoming am outdated term as well, used only by those who oppose it. The new term is “marriage equality.” After all, nobody wants to get “gay married,” they want to get married.
But I’m not so PC that I’d ever tell anyone which term to use. If someone says they’re pro-life, I’m not going to say “actually, you’re anti-abortion!” I understand that those mean the same thing. I’m not going to spend all day complaining about the wrapping paper people put on their ideas, when I’d much rather discuss the ideas themselves.
Like or Dislike: 4 5
In 2009 President Barack Obama signed legislation that elevated homosexuals to the class of citizens that enjoy special protections under the law. Obama added gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people to the list of Americans granted extra protections under federal law, taking a step closer, he said, towards a more perfect union. The controversial legislation passed after Democrats attached it to a vital, must-pass $680 billion defense bill that included raises for American troops. Under the new law, the Justice Department can step in if it determines states or localities are unwilling or unable to prosecute alleged hate crimes. The gays are indeed by law a protected class.
I know how to google “protected class” too. The article you lifted that from is misunderstanding the term (or they’re just lying).
Title VII does not prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation. However, individuals who identify as gays, lesbians, or transgendered have successfully asserted claims of discrimination under Title VII.
Actual protected classes are race, sex, age, religion, etc… So calling homosexuals a “protected class” too isn’t just incorrect. In a way, it doesn’t even make sense. I hope you’ve read 1984, so you can appreciate that.
But seriously, have that conversation. T
alk to a gay person, and hear firsthand how “protected” they really are.
Dead Inside said:
“The title of the article is “Duluth’s first gay bar opens downtown”
LMAO…so you’re saying that DNT headlines are always 100% accurate and never written for sensationalism, eh?
Dead Inside said:
“Having a “gay bar” is stating that they are entitled to special needs and privileges because they chose to be gay.”
Where in the heck did THAT come from? Did you see any mention of any special privileges the owners have asked for?
Actually, the story clearly states that:
“Berg and Nelson say they’re aiming for a clean, friendly, fun club where both gay and straight people feel comfortable, and everyone is treated with respect.
We want it to be a place where people who go out to dinner can come afterwards and have a great time, gay or otherwise,” Nelson said.
Does that even hint that they want to be exclusionary or “special” in any way?
The conservatives should be all over supporting this venture.
It’s 2 guys investing their own money (a LOT of it) without asking for any government loans, hand-outs or special concessions.
They are entrepreneurs who have built a business model and promote/advertise it to appeal to their target market.
Isn’t the the definition of capitalism and a free market economy?
But, instead of supporting this or LPOE..which truly represent the American way of doing business, the conservatives instead want to support the business model of the big oil companies or agri-business, that get more government welfare than all the poor people combined.
Superior and Scanlon both have…or at least had, a Sugar Daddy’s Club that is promoted as a Gentlemen’s Club.
In fact, it says so right on the sign.
Are you equally irate over those?
Seems pretty exclusionary to me if someone only wants “Gentlemen” in their club.
That’s true, but the thing is, I couldn’t care any less about Superior or Scanlon. I care about Duluth because that’s where I live.
Like or Dislike: 6 6
Dead Inside said:
“I care about Duluth because that’s where I live.”
I’m really happy to hear that. I care about Duluth too, even though I no longer live there.
I’m thrilled to see that they’ve added another business that’s sure to thrive there.
Every bar in town is a heterosexual bar. We just don’t call them that. There are so many heterosexuals in town that everybody knows where to meet other heterosexuals.
Gay people are welcome at straight bars. Gay people can sometimes even meet other gay people at straight bars. Just not reliably.
Calling it a gay bar simply makes it easier for gay people to know where they can meet other gay people. And if some people feel like they’re not allowed to go there just because everyone calls it a “gay” bar, well, that’s fine. Those people probably wouldn’t enjoy themselves there anyways.
Like or Dislike: 11 9
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