Crystal workers rally, hope growers will join them
August 18, 2012 at 4:21 pm in Grand Forks Herald
About 200 people showed up at a meeting held by locked-out American Crystal Sugar Co. workers Saturday in East Grand Forks, though the person they really wanted to see wasn’t there. Continue Reading
Is there a more dellusional group in this area than these people and their Union?
they need to face reality, they will never work for ACS again.
Move on, this isnt news anymore.
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How long are they going to beat this dead horse?
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“Just in case, the workers left a seat for Berg, an ornate throne-like chair.”
Yep, they are taking it seriously.. The above quote from the article proves that they still think what is going on is a joke. Sad.
Well I guess we’ll see who is joking once the bank shows up.
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These “leaders” are beyond clueless. Having an ornate throne there shows how completely devoid of common sense they are.
Did these geniuses think Berg would show up and take a seat so they’d have a photo op or something? ANYONE that thought this was a good idea is, well….I don’t know.
Watch ‘em in the next few days and see how they respond to the criticism they’ll receive for this stunt. There will be just as many confused, deer-in-the-headlights, blank stares as there have been when they’ve been called out for other nonsense they’ve pulled….
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“John Riskey, president of Local 167G, said he had hoped some growers would speak to his members, but he thinks they didn’t want to get into a conflict with Crystal.”
The union ended its meeting by having members compile questions to send to Berg. One question: “Why do some farmers have a say and the rest are told to keep their mouths shut?”
What is the penalty for growers who wish to speak to the lockout? There was a Grafton shareholder that wrote a letter to the editor that was supportive of the union. Did he lose his ability to deliver beets? Absolutely not. If growers are remaining quiet,maybe it is because there is a management team in place that have been hired to run the company and negotiate contracts. Maybe the growers are quiet because they are comfortable with how the management team is dealing with the contract negotiations and maybe they recognize that talking into a microphone will not help the company or the union.
Also, if you really want a shareholder to speak at your union rally, maybe you should do away with the throne-like chair.
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“As long as it has to. It’s gotta come from them.” Riskey stated. This tells me the contract dispute won’t be over for a very long time.
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A very long time I am afraid TJ
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It’s too bad that they don’t seem to taking this seriously. Stunts like the thronelike chair don’t give them much credibility.
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Frank must be a union member. Frank, why not just say if you don’t do what I want I won’t be your friend.
BTW – The union workers went away, ACS didn’t… so those union workers weren’t as irreplaceable as they thought.
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“Without workers Crystal Sugar would not exist.”
What an amazing revalation!
Couldn’t help but notice though that your quote WASN’T worded as follows:
“Without a workforce that dictates to the company what they’ll receive as compensation, what rules they’ll work under, how they’ll be evaluated and dealt with on an individual basis, and so on…the company cannot exist.”
You DO see the those two quotes are different, right?
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The replacement temp. workers are getting by the day. It will not be long before ACS will not want to replace them and they become permanent workers. personaly I believe this is what ACS is looking for.
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I mean getting better
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Frank- you need to learn how to write or at least proof read.
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Answer me this Jeff:
Does the contract that has been offered to the workers meet the criteria of what you would consider a “living wage”?
If not, please explain what you think constitutes a “living wage”.
If it DOES meet the criteria of a “living wage”, then what are you talking about?
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Jeff and his Liberal buddies cry about a “living wage” as if its a magic number thats “owed” to everyone regardless of whether they are skilled or unskilled.
You want a living wage Jeff?
Get a skill that will afford you the wage you desire.
Secondly, who gets to decide what a living wage is?
if you have zero post HS education and zero skill you pretty much get what you can get.
And lastly, is the “Living wage” determined before or after the person crying pays their cable bill, $200 a month cell phone bill, and factors in their internet and weekend entertainment funds?
I find it odd that those who cry about making a pittance are the same ones not willing to give up on the luxuries or even cut back to the bare minimum to survive.
I guess its just easier to be mad at people who either got an education in an area of study that was needed or received a skill that was in demand.
Sound about right Jeff?
Dang GOP!
Democrats are all poor, they feel your pain……
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The democrats like Dayton, Franken and Ed Schultz who are no where to be heard of now? Guess they didnt get the support they thought they would by supporting the union.
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Did Riskey and Bertelli put their salaries on that graph? I want to know how much more money the make being their union is in dispute. They are the biggest forms of corporate greed. They make money off of the unemployed. What exactly do they do? Wake up!
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Excellent point Starbuck; that’s totally true for EVERY union in the USA. Greed, corruption, agony and despair….the union creed.
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Its not hard to find their salaries. Although niether one of them has anything to do with ACSC profits. Their work includes more then the Crystal Sugar factory Union. Steven Bertelli’s total compansation is $193,940.00. John Riskey’s total compansation is $71,901.00. As far as what they do. Steven Bertelli puts a chip on his shoulder and dares you to knock it off. I had the opportunity to watch Steven ingage in a conversation with a Union member. You wouldn’t have known he was a specialist in negotiations or that he works for the members . Talk about the stock holders being Dave Bergs boss. I think we need to get a used car salesman involved in this. We would go home with a new contract today.
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So what would these farmers do, plant less valuable crops on their land? Maybe they could not plant anything on that land next year… that’d show ACS.
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Your point is valid Ron….let’s see the chair, and see how it compares to the other chairs that were present for the other folks to use. It MUST HAVE been different for the author to take note…..don’t you think?
Oh, by the way Ron, ALL of the posts I’ve made in reference to the spreading of misinformation, have been made because someone from one of the involved parties has been spreading the misinformation. THIS chair description DIDN’T come from the company Ron….did it?
Or is this YET ANOTHER one of your “I’m going to imply something…instead of actually saying it” posts?
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The ‘throne’ was on the WDAZ news segment for the valley viewers to see. That is where I saw it.
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The video from last night’s 10:00 broadcast on WDAZ is the lead story. The chair is shown there at a table at the front of the room. It is clearly different than the open chair next to it, which likely was for Riskey who was standing at the podium at during the video. The video will be replaced at 10:00PM tonight. I couldn’t find the story any other way (might it becomes an archived story after tonight).
The video ends with a lawmaker telling the crowd that they aren’t fighting just for their jobs, but for the middle class and to not stop fighting. Sad in my opinion. Bad enough that they are being “used” by the union. Now the local lawmakers have to “use” them as well.
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Here is a link to the video on WDAY.. The chair is pictured at 41 seconds.
http://www.wday.com/event/article/id/67853/
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From a person standing on the outside.. The misinformation being spread has been by people in the Union. Back when this first started it was first about the pay. Then it wasn’t about the pay it was about the benefits. Then it wasn’t about the benefits it was about the seniority. Then it wasn’t about the seniority it was about not all workers being welcomed back. Then it wasn’t about the workers being welcomed back to being it was about the seniority.
Then in the link I’ve posted above a person from the Union states that the Union has moved a lot since the discussions started.. Really? Again from an outside persons point of view, and from what the news has reported that is far from the truth.
From my point of view, the union and its members don’t have a clue what they want, other than they want to create drama and think the pity card is a viable solution to the issue. As my dad used to say, piss or get off the pot.
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Its never been about pay. The pay is acceptable. Benefits were conceded by the Union as part of the ongoing negotiations. 1)Well drug testing is conceded. The Union asked for a company wide policy that covers all workers on company grounds. 2) Health care is conceded. The Union has asked for a cap on how high the company would raise premiums. After all it is part of the benefit package. The company can set the cap. 3)Contracting out. The Union only wants language that defines company goals when it comes to replacing already existing positions. 4)Seniority, The Union wants the senior person to have first consideration when awarding jobs. If they find that person is not qualified they can look elseware. The company can set the bar. Yes there is a lot of misinformation. Thats true on this site as well.The truth takes the guess work out. As far as being welcomed back. I dont think there is one person on either side that couldn’t name someone they dont want back.
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Is this language available in the union format? When it is re-typed from memory, the devil is in the details. The only union language that I can find is over-the-top pathetic and asks for the moon and the sky. http://www.acsccontracttalks.com/bctgm.proposal.pdf
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Oofda
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The link you provided is the original 24 BCTGM proposals. Of those 24 proposals. Only #1, which is a change in the local Union numbers, was excepted by the company. Now look at the companys proposals. There are 18, of those, the Union has excepted 14. That part is not posted by the company.
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Or the union. Where do you get your information? Why doesn’t someone post the concession language that the union folks keep referring?
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I have been in the Crystal Sugar plants doing construction work, it’s not like these workers were overworked. Everytime they didn’t like something they would file a grievance. Nobody owes you a living, and I think you were being paid a very livable wage plus benefits.
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Talk about misinformation. The Union contract holds most of the work rules. Their is a side book with work rules you can be writen up for. If the company feels you have broken the rules. They write you up.If you feel the company hasn’t followed the rules you talk to a Union steward. Most conflicts are resolved there. The Union and Management meet once a week on grievances and job awards. If there is a grievance, 99% of the time it is settled at this meeting. 1% of the time its about how it is iterpredted (language). Thats why its so important how the language is writen. With 250 to 300 people in a factory you will have a couple grievances a month but thats about it. Believe it or not 95 % of the Union workers have never been writen up or filed a grievance.
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My job was coordinating constuction with Crystal Sugar, so I got to know a lot of the people there. I didn’t specify a number did I? As far as my area voices name, who in their right mind uses there real name?
Good Luck in your next career.
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Thank you tj.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Ron, go to Google.
Select “images” from the plethora of available options at the top of the Google page.
When you see “Google images” displayed, type “facepalm” into the search field and hit “enter”.
There you go.
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The only thing the union was successful at was creating a public spectacle. Some say there is no such thing as bad publicity, I don’t think that really applies to last night.
It’s pretty clear the intention of the “family” meeting was to keep yelling “Corporate Greed”. Setting aside a “throne” for Berg?
It’s obviously an emotional thing for a lot of the participants, but the union is not doing anything to win public support. This is beginning to resemble a child throwing a tantrum because they can’t get their way. They can’t communicate any clear ideas for why they deserve what they are asking for, so after yelling and screaming and throwing a fit they may resort to holding their breath. That’s as close to a “family” meeting as last night could get.
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So they formulate 29 questions for ACSC to answer. There might be a dozen questions here that actually warrants a response. Unfortunately, the process is ruined by mindless jabs such as “what sells better: saleable sugar or remelt?”
I find it interesting that the Herald reported the question “Why do some farmers have a say and the rest are told to keep their mouths shut?” when they could have reported the equally foolish question “How much do you pay the media to keep their mouths shut?”
The 29 questions can be found here:
http://crystalgreed.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/QuestionsForDave.pdf
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That list should have been condensed to just intelligent questions. Some of them are beneath childishness. What a PR nightmare this has been since the beginning. The Three Stooges had more sense.
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Not only are most of the questions ridiculous, but what kind of genius thought it would be appropriate to upload them to a site entitled “crystalgreed.com”?
Gosh, it certainly SOUNDS like they want everyone to come together for a group hug….doesn’t it?
On the one hand, we have “acsccontracttalks.com”, and on the other hand we have “crystalgreed.com”.
Which one sounds more unprofessional and therefore undeserving of any expectation that it be taken seriously?
Who makes these decisions for the union? Who gives these brainstorms the green light?
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This has been something else to watch. To many of us, we’re watching social security and medicare go bankrupt, medical costs bankrupting many others, inclouding the postal service and unemployment is at 15% in some places. But here, a company makes a serious offer that’s rejected by 96% . More than a year later, it seems like hardly any employees understand that the last offer is a GREAT offer to about 95% of the rest of the population. Pride and lack of perspective can be so hurtful and expensive. As bad as this has been for many, unless the locked out employees ask for another vote, none of this is news. Ask for another vote and quit wasting your time.
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Kinda like the Federal government and Social Security.
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I usually agee with you ron. In this case their is another option. Sign the contract. Although its not as good as the last contract. It is better then you will find with most local companys. Considering most of the employees took years to work thier way up the ladder. You give it away in one contract and take it back in the next.
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The union workers don’t have any say in the matter. They stopped being employees of ACSC August 1st of last year. They are basically free-agents (to use a sports term that might make it clearer for some). Just like a baseball player who hasn’t signed a contract, these people don’t have anywhere to work until they do! Unless they go to work somewhere else, or realize the contract they rejected was very fair to them.
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My question is how and why do union members think they are going to prevail?
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The remaining holdouts are simple minded people that are only cut out to be factory workers. Sheeple…is the urban word for them.
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“Sheeple (a portmanteau of “sheep” and “people”) is a term of disparagement in which people are likened to sheep, a herd animal. The term is used to describe those who voluntarily acquiesce to a suggestion without critical analysis or research. By doing so, they undermine their own individuality and may willingly give up their rights.” Wikipedia
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Odd, I thought “sheeple” were more like the mindless fools who blindly voted for fearless Barrack Obama in the last Presidential election. That would be “Democrats”, Jack. What does any of that have to do with the Crystal Sugar contract?
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According to the Urban Dictionary which I widely use…
Sheeple:
1. People unable to think for themselves. Followers. Lemmings. Those with no cognitive abilities of their own.
2. Those who follow blindly. Portmanteau of “sheep” and “people”, derived as sheep follow their flock and shepherd seemingly mindlessly.
3. The compression of two words, sheep and people, to form one word meaning a mass of ignorant, unoriginal humans that herd together and follow mindlessly.
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“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.”
This isn’t an original statement and I wish I could give credit where credit is due for this one here but alas, I can’t in this venue. Unfortunately in this case the power became a rally cry, “Hell no, we won’t go! (to work).”
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“Contract talks is just as rediculous.”
No Ron…it isn’t.
And “ridiculous” STILL isn’t spelled with an “e”.
Have you visited the contract talks website yet? Have you compared the type of material you’ll find there to ANY union-sponsored or supported website? Do so BEFORE you reply to any more posts/threads/topics concerning accuracy, appropriateness, or things such as distributing and circulating misinformation.
Please Ron.
I’m begging you.
I know you don’t want to, because what you’ll find won’t be the same garden-variety gossip and innuendo you’ve made the choice to believe. but give it a whirl anyway.
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Thanks for the education. You have mentioned your college background a time or two.
(What I wouldn’t give to a see a Ron-authored college term paper….*sigh*)
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This will all come to an end as soon as Minnesota stops paying the ex-workers unemployment.
Trust me, these people are only willing to sit there and cry as long as the Govt continues to hand them a check.
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Seems to be alot of union workers still hoping for a change. I wonder how they are managing to pay bills, no work for a year. Maybe they are using the overpaid wages they earned from savings?
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At some point the “replacement” workers will be the most experienced workers. The union has been unemployed for a year and there doesn’t seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel for them either. Experience is great but how long does it take to be “experienced”? It would be the people actually working the job now isn’t?
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Jack. What is so detrimental about the sugar program? Why is it that any time we question the union stance on the contract it always comes back to another issue that is completely off the topic of the contract? You want public support don’t you? What are YOUR issues with the contract? Does it really have anything to do with the sugar program? Would you have a job to fight for without the sugar program? Or do you want the company to fail because the union isn’t getting their way? Who signs you paycheck? Does BCTGM sign your paycheck or ACSC? Why do you want to work for a company of growers which you so obviously despise? I’m fairly certain we’d know nothing about the sugar program, Berg’s salary etc if the contract were 100% to your liking.
I’ve said it before. This issue should never be about winning or losing. It is about a company moving forward into the future. Most companies are restructuring to maintain future profitability. The union needs to see that and know that this might be an issue that gains momentum in the future.
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Jack. Nobody is attacking the workers. We are asking the questions and the attacking is coming from you(them). Again I ask what is so detrimental about the sugar program? Many of the farm related programs actually keep food grown in the US affordable to the consumer. That aside…what does that have to do with the contract?
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jack: I’ve made many posts encouraging the locked out employees to take the offer. When I look back, there’s no doubt I went beyond judgmental and clearly was on the attack. For some of us to say otherwise is just completely unfair. I still feel awful that people aren’t back to work, but from a completely different perspective than you. I hate this.
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Just fyi, sugar is heavily subsidised in other countries as well. What I am saying is that doing away with the U.S. sugar program would not be creating a “free market”. I am not so sure there is really anything anymore that is a free market. These union folks should be making proactive solutions like developing training criteria and other such programs to work with the company and adapt instead of digging thier heals in and trying to keep things as is. Read the editorial just lately suggesting all current union members should be grandfathered in. If this is really the way the union feels, all that talk on here about saving future generations from slave labor at ACS was just talk and it truly is a case of greed for current union members.
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These union members are adult children stomping thier feet and yelling because they aren’t getting what they want (they are getting what they deserve). Temper tantrums, writing a list of snarky questions, and setting aside the ‘throne’ will not get you any closer to an end.
Why don’t you adult children step aside and let the real adults handle the situation. Thanks, we got it from here…
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So I’m guessing if we checked back when contract negotiations were underway, (pre-lockout…when the union was engaged in their typical chest-beating….thinking they were in the driver’s seat here), we would find plenty of posts like yours decrying the sugar program and calling for it to be scrapped.
Or….perhaps not?
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If you don’t like the sugar program you have a way to show it. Don’t buy sugar. Simple. Just remember this is not a taxpayer supported program. All costs are passed on to the consumer. You have a choice. It’s not a taxpayer supported stadium bill, it’s not a taxpayer supported whatever. You get to vote on this one every time you shop. And remember also all the years it has been since the farmers bought American Crystal Sugar and rebuilt it. Without their monetary input and resolve American Crystal Sugar wouldn’t exist today regardless of the workers contributions.
The unions were formed to force employers to provide safe working conditions and reasonable benefits. When the unions began to demand the power to make management decisions, ultimately to provide employment for union representatives, they began to erode their own usefulness. How much has union driven inefficiency added to the cost of the products on the grocery store shelves?
How should the union have handled this dispute? Signed this contract. Do you think Crystal would go through all this preparation again five years down the road? Think, people!
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If I don’t buy sugar, I’m leaving the grocery store with potatoes, celery and apples. If I don’t by sugar, the federal government buys the surplus using tariff revenues. We support it and have since about 1935. Sugar does fine whether the price is high or low, whether it’s selling or not. ACS is less efficient today, but apparently still managing. I’m convinced ACS lost some GREAT employees but also some dead weight. Judging from some of the questions being asked, maybe a lot of dead weight.
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You don’t have to believe in anything to learn a lesson from those words.
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Alvin there is a new post on the ACSC Contract Talks website pertaining to returning to work. It is an interesting read.
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Thanks, tj. I was encouraged by the RTW agreement and then I read the summary of the August 20 meeting. They’re still miles apart. Oh, well.
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Isn’t that the truth. I value your opinion Alvin. Take care.
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Should we boycott grain products too.
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Yes…all grains and pinto beans, corn, potatoes, soybeans, canola, cotton, tobacco and rice, as well as all meat and dairy products. Report back to us in a month or two if you are still alive.
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jack: Why do 14 dislike your comment? I didn’t catch the hypocrisy angle of your earlier comment. I just thought every one of those bible references seemed appropriate. I see wisdom in every quote, but don’t understand why it’s just for the nuts. I must be one of them.
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While you’re speaking out on the topic of hypocrisy, perhaps you ought to stop in at Union HQ and inquire as to why the evils of the sugar program became an issue with them only in the last few months or so…
Post their reply in its entirety.
Thank you.
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Better be careful standing in the driveway trying to block their vehicles! You mite not like the results! Everyone is sick of this whining!
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Boycot, i assume you are locked out. With that I also assume that you have no intention of ever going back to work at ACS. First off, you are supporting the end of the sugar program which will greatly impact the ability for you to recieve the benefits that you have had and are currently being offered in this proposed contract. Secondly, continue to anger the people who own the company you are supposedly trying to work for, it would seem it hasn’t been working for you so far.
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@ boycott:
By far the best, most objective post so far. Kudos.
Not.
By all means, keep it up. The notion folks generally have about the union and many of its employees will surely do a 180 with stellar posts like that.
You should make some new signs. Instead of “Honk for support”, you should quit beatin’ around the bush and say what you really mean.
Perhaps something subtle like “Support us…OR ELSE!”
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With an attitude like yours, Crystal and the growers wouldn’t want you back anyway. Move on. Walmart is always hiring.
Furthermore, mechanical and electrical machinery are bound to fail. It’s inevitable. When there were pulp fires, shaft breakages, gearbox failures, motor burnouts while you were on the job, did you blame the union?
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boycott..what are you going to call this “fall tour?” Anybody have any ideas to help out with naming this “tour”?
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boycott..can you explain about the Drayton using “city power”? Are you talking about electricity? Please explain.
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How about naming it the “take this job and shove it” tour. Or maybe the “I don’t have to work and you can’t make me” tour?
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How is this helpful? You said you were retired…so retire and stay out of this. Get a hobby or do some traveling. Watch soaps with the wife or take up quilting. Try goose hunting. Do something useful with your time.
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boycott, here are all of the words to the ACSC offer:
http://www.acsccontracttalks.com/final.offer.amended.pdf
Can you point out the words that you feel are “hidden?”
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I believe the union did make a great product while they were in the factory. It is their behavior since the lockout that I don’t like. I found out the event at the EGF factory the other night was out of control. The language was reportedly obscene. Scott and Vikki Ripplinger were the worst. She was on the road blocking traffic. The police were there and witnessed it. She received a $100 ticket, which to her is like winning a blue ribbon at the fair. How is this helpful? More harm is done than good when union members behave this way.
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How about “Fall and I can’t get up” Tour. So, boycott gets pleasure in the cossette mixer troubles in EGF. If my household had to pay to fix it, that’s a problem. The net worth of the growers who foot this bill is in the billions. How does that help your cause, boycott. I’m begging you to ‘splain. God, I don’t understand your thinking. Last year’s processing cost them more than $10/ton and it would be better to have the STRIKING workers back. How has that helped you, boycott. Plzzzzzz ‘splain.
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It’s more like $14/ton. Based on 2010 payments and Minn-dak coops 2011 payments. Minn-dak has always had similar payments in the past. A share holder with 100 acres of beets at 23 tons to the acres loses $32,200.00. A share holder with 1000 acres loses $322,000.00. So if you are a share holder, YOUR “household had to pay to fix it”. Correct me if I’m wrong but the last beet payment has not been payed yet. That payment comes in November. The beet payment could go lower or even higher. I don’t think it matters what the Union does. The share holders will keep paying for this lockout. Time to go back. Fences need mending.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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