Duluth deems Last Place on Earth a ‘nuisance’
August 9, 2012 at 7:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
The city of Duluth has served a “Notice of Public Nuisance” on the Last Place on Earth and its owner, Jim Carlson, claiming the Superior Street establishment is creating a substantial deterioration of the public safety, use and enjoyment of the historic downtown district.
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Whether you like the place (no pun intended) or not.. Here are three troubling things about the whole situation. 1. The fact government can continue harassing (that’s what it is) a business for several years and not have filed a single charge is unbelievable.. 2. “Assemblies blocking the public right of way” case is a joke… You can build a case like this against almost any business in the city whether is bars, restaurants, including Duluth’s CIty Hall if one is forced to stand in line for something. As for the sale of illegal synthetics, where are the charges? . 3. If what he is selling is illegal.. release the results to the public and charge him for selling. Stop waiting everyone’s time and money.
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junior said:
” and not have filed a single charge is unbelievable.”
That’s not quite correct. They have, in the past, filed charges against Mr. Carlson. They’ve just never been able to make them stick once the cases got to court.
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even worse..
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Wake up People! I don’t like what he sells but that doesn’t make it OK for the city to behave like this! The Mayor should be recalled and the Chief of police fired over this kind actions! Maybe they should declare the public bus line a nusance because they were all up in arms over people hanging out in front of the Holiday Center not to long ago. I sure more than one drug deal went on there… Enforce the laws fairly, use the loitering laws to clear the sidewalk, if the “customers” are doing illegal things outside of this business then ticket them. The idiots running this city are setting us the taxpayers up for yet another huge payment, this time to a lawyer and a “victim” because the are to short sighted and corrupt to see that the real way to deal with this is enforce the laws equally and fairly the rest will take care of its self!
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City can get some DEDA money and buy it. Then fix it up, just like they did the Norshore.
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yep and downtown will still be crappy no matter how many businesses the city takes over (with taxpayers footing the bill)
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Who even knows where to start with comments on this latest event. When Carlson starts sounding like he’s got the more reasoned position…..things are starting to get scary. My guess is the City hasn’t ever talked to him directly without guns and a search warrant involved. He’s right too….a lot of wars could be eliminated if we were fast to talk and discuss things first….and slow to pull out the guns and battering rams.
Does anybody know for sure if the city ever actually attempted to discuss their concerns with him directly without guns and search warrants involved ? I’d be curious to know for sure….my guess is they haven’t. A conversation may well yield nothing…but at the very least it’s a prudent way to start.
I’l just say that when I read the city is charging him with…quote: “the sale of synthetic drugs from bulk without the use of proper measurement devices”, I had to smile. It’s nice to know that the city is deeply concerned that you get your moneys worth when you buy dangerous mind altering drugs. You’d think they’d be happy if everyone got shorted a bit.
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Jessica you hit it right on the bullseye! And to think our little boy Mayor ran unopposed! this is just more of his temper tantrums costing us money! I know for a fact if he had sat down with the Fond du Lac Band to discuss the casino situation we would have come out better financially!
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This place just happens to be where the beautiful people are building their new playground. If it were anywhere west of Mesaba Avenue we wouldn’t hear a word about it.
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Exhaust every means to shut ‘em down. Mr. Carlson is not going to do it on his own so there’s nothing to talk about. The nuisance approach has been a successful tactic in permanently closing head shops in other states. If that doesn’t work, rent an apartment next door and open a police substation.
It’s sad a business is killing our children with this stuff that may be rat poison and the hospitals having to give, in most cases, free treatment. Kudos to the City for finally taking stronger action.
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Bribery, intimidation, arson , and murder have all been used in the past to push someone or something out of cities across the nation, I suppose that is OK with you to! Look at the big picture would you… simply closing one bar does not stop drunk driving, pushing a LEGAL business out by corrupt and arguably illegal selective enforcement and harassment only leaves us on the hook for a lawsuit! deal with the “children” ‘s drug problems directly in the community. Even if you are successful in shutting the doors at the last place the “children” as you put it will simply find someplace else to get high. In my experience most arguments that use the “it’s for the children” approach are because the justifications are weak and the orator thinks “children” make the case stronger. This is not about children or drugs, it is about freedom and rights under the law. What happens when little Mr. Donnie and his cronies start declaring other things a nuisance like Bloomberg? Soda, sugar, commercially produced baby formula… It’s do gooders who have the best intentions who do the most hard to our children!
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“And 60% of youngsters who use marijuana before they turn 15 later go on to use cocaine?”
Not hardly. I don’t buy that for a second. I smoked pot for over twenty years. I know several hundred people who have or still do smoke pot. Only a few of them were ever interested in anything but weed. The stastics you sited aren’t even close to being accurate. The thing is you straight folks think you know marijuana better than the people who have enjoyed it for years. Well…thankfully there are fewer and fewer of you everyday in this country. Many of us are ready to legalize marijuana at least for medicinal purposes. North Dakota is going to be voting on that issue this fall. I hope it passes for the sake of many ill people who should be able to enjoy the herb….not a drug…a plant that is completely natural.
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See website at the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University = http://www.casacolumbia.org
Teens who use these drugs greatly increase their risk of addiction. Nine out of 10 people who meet the clinical criteria for substance use disorders began smoking, drinking or using other drugs before they turned 18. For those who started using any of these substances before age 18, one in four are addicted, compared with one in 25 who first started to smoke rink or use other drugs at age 21 or later.
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yeah like liberals are the party advocating tougher drug penalties and conservatives think the drugs should be legal?? am i really reading you right there? lol
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i dont think the city really cares about the business itself, it cares about surrounding businesses and what tourists think when they see customers of the store looking like vagrants.
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You are correct in stating that the City of Duluth cares more about what tourists think than it does about its own citizens.
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KH Garmen, you have just hit the nail on the head.
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Every town has its bad parts of town. Minneapolis has North Minneapolis, Chicago has the south side, I could go on. This is the same argument people have when they say, “the rich need to pay their fair share.” How do you define a nuisance. You can define Canal Park a nuisance on Friday or Saturday evening. What about the loud music from the Blues fest, to me that could be a nuisance. How about when there is a line outside of Best Buy or Verizon when the new iPhone/xbox/whatever comes out. That could be a nuisance.
I will probably get thumbs down for this, but whatever. What is that line from A Few Good Men again, “You can’t handle the truth!”
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It is quite simple.
If people did not crowd around the entry of LPOE all day, every day; and Carlson stopped selling borderline illegal drugs there would be no problem.
There is a reason why there are so many people there, because whatever he is selling is likely heavily addictive. You don’t see people standing around outside a liquor store in droves waiting for it to open, nor do you at any smoke shop not selling what LPOE is selling.
He acts like he is a patriot, the little guy fighting against big government. All while lining his pockets with money taken from people who barely have enough money to feed their children, but have plenty to buy their synthetic drugs.
I am a supporter of due process, but we have to realize that what we are seeing in this situation is unprecedented. Never in the past have we had drugs that are so easily manufactured in different formulas in order to skirt the law.
The drugs he sells may not be illegal, but the only reason they are not illegal because they have been changed just enough to pass through the legal hole that is defining these drugs.
Just because the drugs are not “Technically” illegal, does not mean that they do not have a negative impact on our community. Just because Carlson is selling “Technically” legal drugs does not make him honorable. Just because the city is trying to address a growing epidemic does not make them evil.
There are hundreds of victims in this story, Carlson is not one of them.
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Dorkus,
There are liquor stores that have lines in front of them waiting for them to open in the morning. Stop by Loiselle’s on E 4th Street or Lake Superior Bottle Shop on E 1st Street (for a couple of examples) shortly before they unlock the door; there are lines every day. You can also find plenty of people slumped on the sidewalk next to the building drinking from a paper bag throughout the day. There are also several bars in town that have people waiting either in front of the door or in the parking lot before they open. Try Curly’s on W Superior Street in the morning or Twins on E 4th Street.
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Yes, there are people waiting outside Liquor stores and bars on a daily basis, and it likely was not the best analogy toward what we are talking about.
But we know what Alcohol does, that is an important distinction. We have known what it does to the human body for hundreds of years. What we don’t know are the long term effects of the synthetic drugs being sold.
The point I was trying to make is that whatever is being sold out of LPOE is obviously addicting and very likely more harmful than Alcohol.
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Due process is always inconvenient and it should be. It was designed that way to protect the rights of all citizens, good people and bad people alike.
It’s the only thing that protects us from tyranny. We shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that if due process isn’t afforded to all people at all times and under all circumstances, it’s not going to be available to anybody in short order.
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I am not saying we should use this situation to side-step Due Process. It is a very important part of our rights as Americans.
I was only saying that we have never encountered a situation where something is so easily changed in order to avoid the law, and that some extreme actions may need to be taken.
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr said “Your right to swing your fist ends where the other man’s nose begins”. I find this to be very pertinent to the situation.
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Dorkus said:
“You don’t see people standing around outside a liquor store in droves waiting for it to open, nor do you at any smoke shop not selling what LPOE is selling.”
Do you honestly believe that if there were only 1 liquor store in the city and it was the only one within 100 miles in any direction, you wouldn’t see lines 5 times worse than what’s at LPOE?
And there really is no “technically” involved here. Something is either a legal substance or it’s not. There are no grey areas in that.
The city confiscated his product almost a year ago and still have not charged him with even one count of a sale of illegal substance.
As hard as they are trying to get rid of him, I think it’s logical to assume that they would have brought charges and shut him down ASAP if they’d actually found any illegal substance. And I’m quite sure it doesn’t take a year to get the testing done.
I can’t figure out how any hard core conservatives could possibly be against Mr. Carlson. He’s the epitome of everything they espouse, as far as I can see. He’s definitely one of those highly touted entrepreneurs, successfully growing a small business with no government assistance.
Isn’t his business what a Free market economy and/or capitalism is all about?
How can conservatives support copper mining, that has the very real potential of poisoning the air and water for everyone in northern MN but, be opposed to Mr. Carlson poisoning a relatively small number of people that are willfully making the decision to partake of his poison?
Personally, I find Mr. Carlson’s business very distasteful but, that doesn’t mean I can or would support government harrassment or illegal activity to get rid of it.
Condoning what they are doing to him is a VERY slippery slope.
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That was a bad analogy. My intent was to use it to indicate the drugs he is selling are addictive more than anything. But the cities major issue with the situation is the mass of people that congregate around the building.
Sure, if people could get it anywhere there would be less lines. I am not debating that.
There absolutely are technicalities here. Like I said in my original post, we are facing an unprecedented situation with these drugs. No other drug, ever, has been this easily reformulated to skirt the law. They are “technically” legal because they have been changed just enough to be considered legal by the letter of the law, but not by the spirit of the law.
You are probably right that the drugs they confiscated are legal by the letter of the law, otherwise charges would be filed by now.
I understand the slippery slope mentality. I agree that we should not give up our rights easily.
But I also feel that this is the start of something that will change our legal landscape for years to come. We are on the cusp of a breakthrough in many areas of our lives and we might have to consider some risky options in order to keep the peace.
I am not saying we should just hand over our rights. But I am saying that we need to consider that what has worked for us for the last 200+ years might not work for us in the coming years. Especially with the new technologies on the horizon.
These drugs are harmful to the city of Duluth, and Carlson is making millions off them at the cost of an increase in petty crimes and a tarnished image of our historic downtown.
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But, using your reasoning, we should also ban the sale of turpentine, spray paint, canned air, mothballs, fast-drying glue, nail polish remover, white-out, and nutmeg, just to name a few.
All of these things are used daily by people to get high and have dangerous consequences.
More people have died from inhaling canned air than have died from synthetic pot.
There have been no studies done, to my knowledge, that prove this stuff is actually addictive.
What would you do about the thousands of people that are addicted to food? We know for certain that obesity can be deadly to a human.
And example of the ‘slippery slope” thing would be a poppy seed bagel.
The sale of poppy seeds is banned in Singapore. Poppy seeds are also banned in Saudi Arabia. In one case in the United Arab Emirates, poppy seeds found on a traveler’s clothes led to imprisonment.
Is that where we want to end up?
Sometimes, to live in a Free society, we just have to allow people to do stupid stuff.
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Oh, I agree. We cannot legislate away people’s stupidity.
People will do stupid things. There is no amount of legislation that will stop that, nor should we try. People need to have the freedom to make their own mistakes, otherwise they will never learn from them.
But the difference between Canned Air, moth balls, nutmeg etc is that they are not being sold for the explicit purpose of getting high and the person selling them is not getting rich by doing so. That is the part I have a problem with, as it is exploitation.
We could argue that the same goes for Tobacco and Alcohol, but that is a battle that will never be won due to them already having a place in our culture and religions.
The reason why there are no studies that prove the stuff is addicting, is because every time one of them becomes prevalent enough to warrant testing, it is defined and made illegal by law. Personally, I believe the lines outside of LPOE for this stuff is evidence enough that it is addicting.
As far as the poppy seed analogy goes… We are already there.
The reason why poppy seeds are illegal in those regions is because that area is the main production zone for opium. Making the possession of the seeds illegal is just one of the measures taken to curtail the production of the drug.
Just because they are a food item is irrelevant.
You can get arrested for having marijuana seeds on you in the US, even though you may consider them “Food”. Granted, you could just get hemp seeds and be legal, but the situations are parallel.
There is a fine line between allowing people to be free and make their own mistakes, and allowing a person to profit excessively off those mistakes. We have allowed that to happen in the past and it generally does not end up well.
The mortgage industry comes to mind.
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A bit of info.. never been to LPOE, never want to go, never will go there. Anyway..
1. If there were only one liquor or tobacco store in the city… There would several lines.. around the block..all day long..
2. He doesn’t “take” money from people… No matter how little money people have, they still have the right to spend it how they choose. If they are spending gov’t money on it.. they stop giving it. You want to complain about something.. take a ride through the gov’t funded housing and see how many of them smoke. Heck last year the city of Duluth paid for smoking shelters around the places off 21st st.
3. “I am a supporter of due process”- No you’re not. What exactly is unprecedented about this? It’s new so it’s news.. A few people die here and there from this. If you want something to complain about, look at the numbers of deaths related to alcohol and tobacco.
4. Comparing the contents of the products he sells is a poor argument. The difference between legally driving and DUI is a beer or two. The contents of his products being legal is a chemical here and there.
5. “Just because the drugs are not “Technically” illegal, does not mean that they do not have a negative impact on our community.” please insert alcohol and tobacco in this line and report it to the city.
6. Governments position is to make laws and enforce them. Not keep harassing someone like they are doing in this case. If what he was doing was illegal LPOE would be shut down already, like any other drug house. since it’s not. The stuff he is selling is obviously legal whether you, I or anyone likes it or not.
7. The Citizen is the victim in this case.
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1. You are right. But my intent was to illustrate that the drugs were addictive more than anything. The crowd is purely driven by the lack of other places that sell the product.
2. We know what smoking and alcohol does to people and they have both been around for thousands of years. Taking something away that has been part of your heritage is not going to work, as evidenced by the failure of prohibition. But preventing people from getting addicted to a new product with unknown consequences is different.
3. What is unprecedented? Did you not read my post?
Allow me to quote myself: “Never in the past have we had drugs that are so easily manufactured in different formulas in order to skirt the law.”
That is the crux of the matter here. We are at a point in our understanding of chemical structure that we are able to design drugs that have certain effects, and are able to modify the formulas in order to be legal by the letter of the law. This has never been the case with any other drug.
If these drugs were as widely used as Alcohol or Tobacco it would likely be devastating. Synthetic drugs are used by a much smaller percentage of people, but they still account for a measurable amount of hospital visits. We don’t have the long term data on the effects of these drugs to be able to properly quantify the effects.
4. If crack cocaine was modified to eliminate the cocaine but still have the same effects, it is still crack but it would be legal. The key here is that we are hitting a point in our technological prowess where we are able to manufacture these drugs to give the desired effects yet still pass through as a “legal” drug.
5. We are not talking about Alcohol or Tobacco. As I said before we know what Alcohol and Tobacco does to a person. We have absolutely no clue what effect these drugs and their analogues have on the human body over the long term. Apples to oranges.
6. Yes. But again, we are facing an unprecedented situation with these drugs. We cannot expect our government to have to constantly change the laws in order to try and stay ahead of these drugs. That is a futile effort and a waste of taxpayer dollars.
We need a better way to handle this than what has taken place so far.
7. Absolutely.
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The cops have been breaking the law for 3 years trying to get something on the LPOE but haven’t found anything. They stole his guns, his computer with his confidential information about business and court cases. It’s far past the time for cops to disbanded and scattered to the four winds. They do not protect and serve. They harass, intimidate, bully and work as strongarms for the city council’s private agendas. They are the exact same type of animal as any union. They might have been needed once but have turned into something quite different that is only interested in hurting people. To them, the ends justify the means, no matter what they do. How long before they perpetrate something against YOU? Beating up women and leaving them in the freezing cold to die on a highway, lying about driving drunk all over the place, shooting up city hall bathrooms, breaching countless civil liberties, killing kids, omitting information on reports. These are just the smallest fraction of an example. We the people can take care of things ourselves without resorting to hiring guys that were picked on all through school to take their vengeance on our society. It’s time for the cops to go. And where they go, I don’t care as long as they are no longer a liability to the community.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Here’s a very nice link that refers to all of the things I’ve been talking about, police corruption.
http://lawenforcementcorruption.blogspot.com/
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Get rid of that dump.
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The more this drags out, the more I hope Carlson prevails. Just the list of agencies involved in the last raid or two were sickening.
Treat pot like we do alcohol, make businesses get licensed to sell it, and this is a non-factor. A total and complete non-issue.
Though it is worth noting: How many people have actually kicked the bucket from this crap? Five? And there’s all this hubub. Yet the guy in today’s paper who tried to murder two people via arson in the middle of the night will at MOST spend four years in prison after huggy/feely time. Or I could go get hammered tonight, crash into someone, and maybe I’ll serve two years.
But oooooooooh boy let’s hammer them there synthetic pot users and the real pot users!
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“Historic downtown district”, love an artificial name. Though I have zero regard for this man, what he is doing has not been proven illegal. He presently is no different than the business down the block selling alcohol. Alcohol is legal but yet kills thousands per year and untold tragedies. Do we live in a double standard society, Yes we do..
Presently this man is making millions off the weak, if he prevails the citizens of Duluth could be on the hook for millions in lawsuits. Beware City Hall, Randall Tigue is no easy task, our own Mr Johnson is but a politician…….!
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So when does the City of Duluth declare Fond du Luth a nuisance?
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After they give the out of town lawyers another million dollars of tax payer money and still end up losing the lawsuits?
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I had to laugh at the statement “it’s a joint effort” Somehow the wording of that statement fits in this discussion somewhere-
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I don’t believe Jim Carlson has been in court. This reminds me of the pounding Gibson Guitars is taking from the BO administration, confiscation of assets and no charges. It’s disgusting that court offices lack the courage to tell prosectutors to br1ing something substancial or don’t bring anything at all. Thumbs up Junior!
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It seems to me if Jim Carlson put a No Loitering sign in his entryway the problem of lingering crowds being a nuisnace would shift to the city since city property starts at the plane of his building. As a matter of fact, Jim should also call the police if large crowds linger on the public sidewalk as it is a detriment to public safety, his business and the historic downtown Duluth. As far as large crowds waiting in line to purchase a legal product I don’t see anything city government could do except to pass an ordinance making it an offense to stand in line on city sidewalks. That way the city can avoid any future nuisances with any business, residence or government building that may or may not present a problem to the general public.
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Maybe the city should hand out little packets of the fake weed to the users each morning to get rid of the loitering problem. It may be cheaper in the long run. Give them the packets then tell them to scatter.
One more thing…if you let all the cops go…give Dead Inside all the night shifts since it was his idea. Someone has to patrol the streets and fight crime. Don’t give him a gun though. He doesn’t need one. His arms are tougher than my guns…his words, not mine.
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It’s the responsibility of everyone to look after their community and make it something worthwhile, not just a certain group of people or 1 person. Are you telling me that you would let a child be molested in broad daylight because I wasn’t there at that particular moment? People have to have integrity and the fortitude to do what’s right. This is what builds a strong community. Not hiding under the bed and hope the stormtroopers take care of it. If everyone pulled together, miracles would happen. There would be absolutely zero need for any pigs or any government or any leaders telling everyone else how to think, how to feel. Of course, like I said, that would mean people would have to have integrity and not to be afraid of a little hard work, which has been thrown into the wind and lost for several, several decades. I haven’t met anyone with even a small bit of integrity since I was a child. They don’t exist anymore. People are much too busy with building a strong foundation for a community. They would rather worry about really important things like their kid’s 16th birthday, getting their lame car fixed or clipping coupons to buy double stuff triple fudge oreos and other processed premade garbage that has no nutritional value whatsoever.
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My neighborhood and my community mean a great deal to me. I grew up there and I was fortunate to have great parents and great mentors that kept me in line and kept me honest. I’m not the type of person who would stand idly by while a crime was being committed. I strongly feel we are each responsible for our own safety. We cannot rely on the police to be there when we need them. Since I work so far from home and often travel by myself I have a conceal carry permit. If my life were ever to be in danger I am prepared to do what I can to save myself from harm. I’m trained to handle firearms but I don’t advocate disbanning the police forces nationwide.That thought doesn’t even pass through my mind. I don’t want to live in a community where the citizens handle the crime, something similar to what is seen in the Charles Bronson Death Wish series. I have a greater fear of living in a community that encourages vigilantism than I do living in a community the local police force is watching over.
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There are several posts equating Last Place and liquor stores. Bottom line is there are simply no ‘good addictions’. It doesn’t matter if it’s synthetics, alcohol, heroin, prescription drugs or cocaine – every addiction is destructive of a person’s life, goals, focus, mental stability and personal integrity. Drugs and alcohol are also destructive of a person’s health and relationships. When addiction takes over a person’s life, every constructive priority takes a back seat to this overwhelming influence. Shutting this despicable operation down may save some misguided youth from going down this miserable path of self-destruction.
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…the only “millionaire” to remind me of a homeless guy.
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Don’t forget to vote for Jim Carlson for President in November!
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Youbetcha, eh?
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The ‘abatement’ thing is interesting.
Does anyone really believe that Jim Carlson has any legal right whatever to walk out of his store and insist that people leave a public sidewalk?
Or that he has any right at all to try and control the behavior of people standing on a public sidewalk?
It seems to me that the city is trying to coerce Jim Carlson into doing things that, as a private citizen, he has no legal right to do.
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The problem with your argument is that the other private businesses don’t want him there, either.
People fight outside his store. The police are getting called there.
There are genuinely poor people. There are people who really need help.
Then there are scumbags. The people outside the man’s store, are scum. Let’s not confuse the argument.
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I believe the majority of people who are standing in line at last place on earth are on probation, get tested for the real Marijuana so they have to resort to purchasing this fake, chemical mixed, stuff that makes you swim in Lake Superior in the Winter because you seen a HOT Burger on a Wendys commercial. It it also sounds to me like the majority of you agree with the chemical fake stuff that most likely causes brain damage, soo just guessing you all that agree are sitting at home NOT working b/c you smoked bath salts till you lost your job ?! If any thing you should be fighting for MEDICAL Marijuana. Not fake s*** that makes you go crazy. GO talk to Gold Cross ask them how many people they witnessed in a crazy mess from it then tell me you agree it should be sold on Superior street. You think the Major is making Duluth worse then this spice/bath salts crap…your just dum then.
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The part you missed is it isn’t an illegal substance. Until it is the government doesn’t have the right to invade a business, take the supply, the cash, and a man’s legal firearms. That is wrong. They need to follow the proper channels. Make the substance illegal. Stop the manufacturing of the product. And FYI…many of us work at night. Our down time is in the afternoon. Also several retirees comment on Area Voices. So be nice.
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