When it comes to sanctity of life, Bible must be authority
August 7, 2012 at 3:30 am in The Daily Republic
I read with interest the “In Other Words” letter by Rev. Kristi McLaughlin in the July 31 issue of The Daily Republic. I consider myself to be a pro-life advocate, and it troubled me that Rev. McLaughlin was trying to define me and my pro-life position. Continue Reading
Thank you for your letter Rev. Nash.
Our Bible commands us to be diligent in guarding that which God has given to us. Particularly His Word. His Word is Jesus. His Word is the creative force. His Word breathes life into the unborn child.
Paul warns us in 1 Timothy: “Watch your life and DOCTRINE closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.”
1 Tim. 4:16
Again we are warned in 2 Corinthians: “For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough…..For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.” 2 Cor. 11: 4, 13-15.
Red
Like or Dislike:
3 
8
Rev. Nash: You are claiming that peace is found through violence and it seems that you have forgotten we, as “Christians” worship the “Prince of Peace.”
Did you study PAX ROMANA in seminary??? Peace through the empire and the empire finds peace through violence. The way of Jesus speaks against peace via the empire. In fact, the way of Jesus speaks against the Empire of which america is one no matter what political party is in office.
Did you study the Constantinian Shift and the implications of it? Have you studied the radical non-violent way of the Jesus movement before Christianity was deemed the religion of Rome??? Have you read the early movement’s documents in which once a person was baptized they denied any military service??
I am fine with people disagreeing with me and yes, I write these articles as an alternative voice in a world filled with hate and violence…a world riddled with bullying, mass shootings, and war upon countries that we feel we have the right to invade, destroy and take over due to a difference of ideologies. Rev Nash, you are advocating violence through what you call “THE WORD OF GOD” and I’m not quite sure how the Prince of Peace would feel about that.
Like or Dislike:
11 
8
Kristi:
An important point, that you seem to have overlooked, was that Rev Nash siad to consider the whole bible, not just those secitons which you seem to agree with.
Jesus and the death penalty
Dudley Sharp
God/Jesus: ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and ‘Whoever curses father or mother must certainly be put to death.’ Matthew 15:4
This is a New Testament command, which references several of the same commands from God, in the same circumstance, from the OT.
Jesus: Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us.” The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, “Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation? And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” (Jesus) replied to him, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Luke 23: 39-43
It is not the nature of our deaths, but the state of salvation at the time of death which is most important.
Jesus: “So Pilate said to (Jesus), “Do you not speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you and I have power to crucify you?” Jesus answered (him), “You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above.” John 19:10-11
The power to execute comes directly from God.
Jesus: “You have heard the ancients were told, ˜YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER” and “Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court”. But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever shall say to his brother, “Raca”, shall be guilty before the supreme court and whoever shall say, “You fool”, shall be guilty enough to go into fiery hell.” Matthew 5:17-22.
Fiery hell is a considerable more severe sanction than any earthly death.
The Holy Spirit, God, through the power and justice of the Holy Spirit, executed both Ananias and his wife, Saphira. Their crime? Lying to the Holy Spirit – to God – through Peter. Acts 5:1-11.
No trial, no appeals, just death on the spot.
God: “You shall not accept indemnity in place of the life of a murderer who deserves the death penalty; he must be put to death.” Numbers 35:31 (NAB) full context http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/numbers/numbers35.htm
For murder, there is no mitigation from a death sentence.
God: Genesis 9:5-6, from the 1764 Quaker Bible, the only Quaker bible.
5 And I will certainly require the Blood of your Lives, and that from the Paw of any Beast: from the Hand likewise of Man, even of any one’s Brother, will I require the Life of a Man.
6 He that sheds Man’s Blood, shall have his own shed by Man; because in the Likeness of God he made Mankind.
Of all the versions/translations, this may be the most unequivocal – Murder requires execution of the murderer. It is a command. The Noahic covenant if for all persons and all times.
—
“All interpretations, contrary to the biblical support of capital punishment, are false. Interpreters ought to listen to the Bible’s own agenda, rather than to squeeze from it implications for their own agenda. As the ancient rabbis taught, “Do not seek to be more righteous than your Creator.” (Ecclesiastes Rabbah 7.33.). Part of Synopsis of Professor Lloyd R. Bailey’s book Capital Punishment: What the Bible Says, Abingdon Press, 1987.
Saint (& Pope) Pius V, “The just use of (executions), far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of paramount obedience to this (Fifth) Commandment which prohibits murder.” “The Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent” (1566).
Pope Pius XII: “When it is a question of the execution of a man condemned to death it is then reserved to the public power to deprive the condemned of the benefit of life, in expiation of his fault, when already, by his fault, he has dispossessed himself of the right to live.” 9/14/52.
“Moral/ethical Death Penalty Support: Christian and secular Scholars”
http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2009/07/death-penalty-support-modern-catholic.html
Christianity and the death penalty
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DP.html#F.Christianity
Catholic and other Christian References: Support for the Death Penalty,
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2006/10/12/catholic-and-other-christian-references-support-for-the-death-penalty.aspx
Like or Dislike:
3 
1
http://sojo.net/magazine/2010/01/beyond-barrier-bubble-or-bomb
Like or Dislike:
5 
4
A quote from the above article which I read (thank you for the link) says:
“April felt in her bones that being Christian meant reaching out to neighbors in times of distress, regardless of their faith.”
April should have followed that feeling “in her bones”. That would have been the right thing to do. She missed hearing God’s voice. I hope it was a teaching moment for her.
April does not represent all of Christianity and it would be hard to blame her decision on fundamental Christianity.
A sad story but hardly persuasive for your point of view.
Red
Like or Dislike:
2 
2
As usual I read your posts and have to scratch my head.
So April’s feeling in her bones was god? If that is true he was telling her what? How do you know it was god? If that is what you are saying I have to admit that is an amazing gift. Now you know the true thoughts of others? Are you saying that April should not have gone? She did go you know. You understand that? April isn’t even the point of the link. The point of the story is to hold up a mirror to her own situation here in Mitchell.
Look, you don’t like what she has to say? Don’t go to her service. She didn’t TELL anyone to do anything. She gave an opinion on what she believes a christian point of view should be. Mr Nash gave a different point of view. I’ll let them have a theological discussion on that. They are the experts. That’s their job. You on the other hand……did you in your 2 Corinthians quote call her a servant of satan? How can you be sure who is the servant of satan? Maybe the feeling in your bones is not god because if anyone holds themselves as a servant of righteousnes…that would be you.
OK everyone you can hit dislike…..now.
Like or Dislike:
5 
4
Don – I’ll address several of your points quickly and then I’m done with you.
Your right and I stand corrected with regard to my confusing misstatement of the facts in the story above, (too many distractions where I’m at to be multitasking on such a serious topic and discussion) but I maintain my position none the less.
I’ll re-state:
April felt conflicted because she was surrounded by a church group which she felt did not support her love and concern for others regardless of race, religion or color. She DID do the right thing but with hesitation. If in fact her feelings were correct and others in her church were against what she did I say: SHAME ON THEM. My other point is this, I have never seen a church like that. The churches I know would move quickly to help people in trouble without batting an eye about religion, race or color. When huge tragedies strike around the world I see Christians everywhere mobilizing huge relief efforts. They open their homes, hearts and wallets. Not just Christians but good heart-ed folks of all backgrounds. That’s the way it should be. No argument there right?
So because April’s story is not the norm, we are hard pressed to use it as an example to show typical Christian behavior or sentiment. You can’t cite an exception to the rule as proof that the rule is wrong. That’s faulty reasoning.
Number Two- God does speak to us if we will listen. You may not believe that and clearly that’s your right. But I do. Sometimes it’s a thought, sometimes it’s a feeling, sometimes it’s through another person or through the reading of His Word. What April heard could very easily have been the voice of God urging her on. But the voice of God has to line up with His Word. Understand that if you think God is speaking but it does not match up with what you know to be true from diligent study of His Word, then it is probably not God at all. What April “felt in her bones” lines up with everything I know and believe about God’s Word which is, reach out to those in need whenever possible.
God’s Word however, does not direct us to believe everything we are told and accept as true all belief systems and accept as “right” all moral conduct. You yourself, I assume, draw the line somewhere with regard to moral behavior. At least I hope you do. We all draw the line somewhere. I agree with Pastor Nash that God has already drawn those lines for us. The debate is where those lines are. Where we draw those lines impacts society and since we all have to live in society together we all have an interest in where those lines get drawn. Which brings me to my next point.
My third point is that there is no requirement to be an expert in any given field before posting a comment on these pages. People state their opinions (mixed with any facts they have of course) That’s called debate son. It’s called having a discussion. It seems quite disingenuous to play that card on me now after your lengthy debate with Dudley Sharp. Do you have any idea how many national network news programs he’s been on or the times he has testified before various state judiciary committees or been a guest lecturer for the Dept. of State. I did not see you step aside. Probably would have been better for you if you had though. Once I recognized his name I stopped posting. He clearly didn’t need my help.
Fourth- the 2 Corinthians reference was on point as a warning for Christians to be diligent in guarding their hearts and to watch carefully that they not be influenced by false doctrine being preached in the name of Christ. It is a warning addressed to Bible believing Christians not to be lead astray. It was not addressed to you or Ms. Mclaughlin. Furthermore I didn’t write it. The Apostle Paul wrote it. The scripture was apropos given the nature of recent discussions.
Finally, let me add this as an aside. In her “she-wolf” blog at:
http://revkristi.areavoices.com/2012/08/07/there-is-a-problem-the-only-response-is-silence/
Ms.Mclaughlin implies that the cop who ended the recent tragedy at the Sikh Church in Wisconsin by killing the crazed gunman is just as guilty for taking a life as the gunman. This cop took a half dozen bullets and probably saved countless lives. Now he is in critical condition in a hospital while the whole world is grateful for his action as a hero and Mclaughlin says he’s a killer. She also finds it morally wrong for me to use lethal force to protect my family if God forbid I ever had to. I find that pathetic. Does she have a right to her opinion as twisted as it may be? Absolutely yes. Do I have to agree? No need to call in an expert for this one.
Respond if you like but I won’t reciprocate. I’m done with you. Apologies to Pastor Nash for meandering somewhat off topic.
Red
Like or Dislike:
2 
3
Red
“Your right and I stand corrected with regard to my confusing misstatement of the facts in the story above, (too many distractions where I’m at to be multitasking on such a serious topic and discussion) but I maintain my position none the less
Interesting stance…..your wrong but you have your conviction.
You don’t know of christians to act in the manner of the story? How about when muslims wanted to build a community center in downtown Manhattan. Not a mosque, a community center. There was christian outrage from all around the country.
God speaks to all of us. That’s an extraordinary claim so I will ask for extraordinary evidence. The evidence on my side is Jim Jones, Son of Sam and at least 6 people in the past year that are running for President of the U.S.. It’s amazing that the word of god always seems to tell them to do what they always wanted good or bad. It’s all a rationalization.
The 2 Corinthians reference was of course put there as a put down on the words of Ms. Mclaughlin. Please, don’t hide, you put it in your post, own it.
As far as your condesending attitude on debate let me remind you of your previous statement
“this fool should be like putty in your hands. clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.”
and who can forget this old favorite
“It is difficult to continue a discussion with someone who lacks a basic, even rudimentary understanding of the definition of concepts like values. I don’t have the time or inclination to teach you 7th grade english.
stop trolling the internet to participate in discussions which are clearly way over your head. It just makes you look silly.”
Excellent debating skills.
I admit that the references Ms. Mclaughlin used were/are beyond my scope…I have never head or read any of them so no I can’t debate them
Yes I debated Mr. Sharp and I enjoyed it. I’m glad you enjoyed it but I would not say he won. Yes he has been on TV…so have I but it’s no big deal….so has Glen Beck. He has his opinion and we don’t agree it reached a point where I would have to shift to a position of believer/non believer and that wasn’t the subject so it would have been a disservice to the discussion (EX.-jesus brought 3 back from the dead- no, he didn’t he never existed.)
To the point of the police officer that was shot. He is a hero. Like I have stated I am not against capital punishment and I would have shot him also. I would also protect my family…that’s not the point. The point is would jesus have? I say no, and Ms Mclauglin would not have and she would be dead. But she would have died for her beliefs and what she is saying is correct. That is what we should all strive to be but human nature being what it is……will lose. Didn’t work for jesus and would not work now. Lucky you and I can rationalize a reason to kill.
Mr Nash is an advocate for life. We would disagree on where life begins. He says at the moment of conception. Of course at that point it is human. Two people performed a simple biological function and life started. It has no sex, organs, heart and cannot sustain it self for another 20 weeks. After that, I have a bit of a problem.
I find it interesting that Mr Nash also pointed out that he doesn’t agree that a pro-life stance should be considered for the poor (he did say a widow and fatherless) but seemed to dismiss the poor. Can’t help them, after all how could you be able to build a massive clubhouse.
As you can see from the above, my views don’t really follow Ms Mclaughlin….but I know when someone is being bullied.
Red, you may have given up on me ,and it hurts after all we have been through, but I’m not giving up. I’ll keep trolling and correcting you when you stray.
Like or Dislike:
3 
3
Renee-
You are a hateful individual whom knows nothing of living a Christian life. I know for a fact that you have had no interaction with Tom or Kristi McLaughlin in more than 20 years. You blame Kristi for the fact that your cousin wanted nothing to do with you because of your shameful behavior, that is your fault, not hers. I also want to point out that Tom and Kristi have a relationship with his family, family trips to spend time together have been had, both directions! In fact, Tom’s sister and family travelled to MN to participate in a wedding in recent years! And Tom’s children and Tom’s Nieces and nephews communicate regularly via social media! So it seems that you really have no idea what you are talking about and your words are nothing more than the spiteful mutterings of a bitter old woman who has carried around a vendetta against her cousin’s wife for more than 20 years because she got slighted…next time you try and attack someone’s character, make sure you know the facts and be darn sure you don’t pick a fight you can’t win, because when it comes to strength of character Kristi is way out of your league. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Like or Dislike:
4 
3
Renee-
It seems you have gotten what you were hoping for, my dad will be calling! But to use a public forum to attack his wife is shameful. You know nothing of the relationships we have with our family (note I say “our” family, not his, because to us, they are family and these ideas of division you are trying to create exist only to you, because has no desire to have you in our lives because of behaviors such as those you are displaying right now!). You know nothing of my father’s relationship with his mother and his grief, you know nothing of my relationship with Melissa and Shauna and the rest of my cousins. You come from a place of anger and inject yourself and your evil into an otherwise benign situation. Why stir up the family? Why create conflict and distress amongst relationships when? It takes a small and sad person to do such an awful thing. My mother has always given my father your messages and your phone number, he did not contact you because he didn’t want to! Why would he want a relationship with a person that behaves in such a hateful manner?? And I must say for someone who touts “ignore her”, you spend an awful lot of time seeking her out, attacking her on Facebook to the point where she had to block you, and now, trolling the newspapers to find her articles and attack her again. You are entering into crazy stalker lady territory, I’m sure there are places in Texas that can help you get over your issues, or maybe you could pray for peace and healing since you are such a good Christian woman. Either way, your time of attacking my family is done now, find a new hobby, maybe the time you spend hating my mother for my father’s independent decisions could be spent feeding the hungry or positively impacting the world somehow? Either way you have said your piece and our family, most of all my dad, would like for you to go away. Really. Just go away.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0