Veteran thinks half-staff has gone too far
July 26, 2012 at 2:00 am in Grand Forks Herald
The U.S. flag is being lowered to half-staff far too often, says Terry Richardson, commander of United Patriot Bodies, the umbrella group for the Fargo-Moorhead area’s veteran’s organizations. The honor has been cheapened by almost cavalier use, Richardson said Wednesday. Continue Reading
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I am also a veteran scooter and I disagree. The flag does belong to us all to a certain extent. I think it is more that we belong to that flag and none of us should want to see it cheapened.
It definitely was a tragedy as to what happened in Colorado I don’t believe the flag should have been lowered to half staff.
Our flag is one of the Ultimate Symbols of this country. I would say the other is the bald eagle taking a second place spot. While I may not be able to stop people in other countries from desecrating our flag I sure can voice my displeasure over what I feel is a disrespect to our flag in this country. I was very upset when it was lowered for Whitney Houston. Are we going to start lowering it for every gin soaked, pill popping out of control star that dies? Are we going to give recognition to every mass murderer out there who decides to take human lives?
Our flag bows to no one, and I for one won’t idly sit by and let its symbolism be diminished.
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I only heard the last part of a news report, but I do believe that at least one of the military individuals had tours in Iraq. After surviving there he or she gets killed here. That should be given some special denotation. Maybe on big incidents like this they should consider honoring with state flags. Other states could follow suit if they felt they’d like to show their respect too…
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FN, The flag code is clear. It is FEDERAL LAW. Even though there are no penaties imposed, it is still the LAW.
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I didn’t say that about Executive Order now did I? He is the only person, along with the gov’s of states and the Mayor of DC that do have the authority. Have you taken the time to read the Code section pertaining to half-staffing? If you haven’t maybe you should. If you have, then we must be interpreting it entirely differently. The prez can make exceptions and from what I get from the code is the only one that can.
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FN, I guess I should have made myself a little more clear. They have the authority to lower the flag on CERTSAIN OCCASIONS spelled out in the code, not just whenever they want to. That’s the way I read it. As far as I know, the code has not been changed. That is what I was shouting! So no, in my opinion, he is NOT following the law!
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I contribute his override of the law to his failure to serve in the military…. He never had to defend it, I’m not sure how much he respects it.
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Cashmere; your implication that Obama’s authorization is somehow tainted by his lack of military service, and, in your estimation, his lack of respect for the military, is rididulous. This is just one more way for Obama haters to express their dislike of him and in my opinion is totally flawed logic.
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The point of the article is just that.. That the flag is being lowered to often. The only ones on your list that I would agree with was the Challenger accident and 9/11.
While the others were absolute tragedy by any standard, they did not warrant a flag lowering.
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Your snide little dig is noted for future reference. And yes it was a dig.
Hundreds of Thousands of men over the course of this nations history have given their lives to defend the flag, including many of my family members. To lower it for anything other than the prescribed code allows cheapens it.
While I won’t discount the authority for an Executive Order from the President or that of a Governor I question their decision making skills to lower it for anything other than that which is prescribed. The President doesn’t have the authority to lower it at a whim, that is not part of his Executive Privileged.
Did you read the article at all? Have you looked up the code? Here is something for you to read and maybe learn, and hopefully respect. http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm goto section m.
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My military pedigree goes back just as far as yours FN and probably further as my family landed on this country’s shores with the Mayflower. My direct family line has had members in every conflict since the Revolutionary War and it is an expectation in my family that we serve. My uncles were in WWI, my father and mother met as service members in WWII, I have cousins that served in Korea, my oldest brother in Vietnam, I was in Desert Shield and Storm, my Nephew was sent to Central America during the Noriega crisis, my other nephew has been to Afghanistan twice, anther nephew was in Iraq for two tours. But that isn’t the point.
I don’t think what happened in Colorado is of national significance. A tragedy for sure.. That is where you and I are going to differ FN.
9/11 was of national significance because it was the FIRST time a terrorist successful injured us on our own soil. The Challenger accident was of national significance. I will never forget what I was doing on those two days.. Ask me five years what I was doing on the day of the Colorado shooting and I won’t be able to tell you. I would go so far to say that Rosa Parks is national significance because of her role in history.
While you may ‘feel’ I am wrong.. I am not. Just because the President decides to lower the flag and legally may have the right to do so, it doesn’t mean he hasn’t cheapened the meaning.
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Columbine?
Really?
What about Columbine was deserving of lowering the flag to half staff?
Murders happen every day, how do those victims differ from the ones at Columbine or Aurora?
Common sense goes a long way and the writer is dead on correct, we are cheapening the message.
Once upon a time i would drive on base and see the flag at half staff and think “OMG” Who died, i knew it had to be someone of importance to the nation or the base because otherwise it wouldnt be lowered.
Today, i dont even give it a second glance, because its ALWAYS at half staff.
And its for people that no one even knew, or did know but they were famous and OD’d etc.
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FN,
Doesnt everyone deserve respect?
So with your premise that its a respect issue, maybe we should just keep it at half staff all the time as we have people die every day.
Not just Govt servants and Servicemembers.
Is that what you believe?
If not, who gets to decide who is deserving of respect?
Or we could just do it as it was intended, Lower the flag to HONOR people who have demonstrated over their lifetime a superior drive to better our nation through service and sacrifice.
Sorry if it offends you but those people are generally Servicemembers and Government employees.
I served 22 years and i dont for one second believe i am deserving of this Honor even at the state level.
I did not die in combat and i did nothing more than any other servicemember.
and if i dont believe we average joe servicemembers deserve it at the Federal level i sure as heck do not believe victims at a movie theater deserve it.
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Oklahoma City, the Challenger, the events of 9/11… people died either as a result of service to our country or as a result of an attack on our country, so in effect they died for the country. It probably seems like splitting hairs, but I think that is appropriate. For plane crashes, mass murders, floods, no. There are other ways to show our collective grief. There are special laws for display of the country’s flag for a reason. Follow the rules.
I get annoyed with people who display the flag 24 hours a day without a light ON the flag. I was mortified the other day when I saw a couple of school children drag the flag on the ground as they were preparing to raise it on the school flagpole. Just to say how I feel about the flag.
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I to am a Vet and I agree with you Maverick. The flag code is clear as to for whom the flag is to be flown at half-staff for and when. Lowering the flag for every Tom, Dick, and Harry is simply wrong! The article is Spot On.
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OK FN, I condede your point on the prez. I read a little further. This only applies to the prez though, not Gov’s or anyone else.
Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation.
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How are 12 deaths at a movie theater “National Importance”?
I know how its “national news” but that doesnt make it National Importance.
Is the number 12 where we draw the line?
How many have to die to get the flag lowered?
This was a sad event but not one that is of “National Importance”.
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I agree with you Fly…they (presidents, governors, etc.) have been given some discretion under this code. Whenever someone uses discretion when making a public decision, there is always going to be some disagreement/difference of opinion. In the case of Whitney Houston, I definitely disagree. Even though I thought she was a phenomenal singer and a very important person to New Jersey, I don’t believe appropriate discretion was used by the governor of NJ when lowering the flag. Just my opinion.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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When reading up on this I came across an interesting factoid: Rosa Parks was the first woman & only the second non governmental official to lay In State in the Capital Rotunda.
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Well then i suppose we should just leave it at half staff all the time because someone dies everyday.
Sorry but on 9/11 we were attacked, it deserved to be lowered at that moment for the first victims in the war on terrorism.
Oklahoma City Bombing was an attack on the Government and killed many Govt employees who were serving the nation at that moment.
Whitney Houston was a pathetic drug addict that didnt deserve that honor at all.
Sensless massacres that have nothing to do with an attack on the Govt or the nation do not need to have the flag flown at half staff.
I would not have flown it at half staff for Hurricane Katrina nor for the Pope.
If we dont fly it at half staff for the death of a Medal of Honor award winner, we dont fly it there for people killed watching a movie.
It should be a VERY important moment or Honor to lower the flag for anyone.
I believe we cheapen the honor when we make it the norm.
How does being murdered in a movie theater deserve the honor more than the guy/gal who served their nation for 30 years in Uniform?
Believe it or not, its actually okay to feel bad about something like this massacre without feeling the need to bestow upon it high honors to the victims.
You and I know absolutely nothing about these victims.
Yet here they are receiving honors our soldiers dont even get at the NATIONAL level.
If Colorado wanted to go to half staff, i would be okay with that but not nationwide.
Federal declarations should be reserved for the highest honors, people like Ted Kennedy and ex-presidents. and for major attacks on the govt and its personnel (9/11, OKC)
Statewide should be for honoring people at the local and state level, Soldiers dying in the war zone etc.
I think what is driving this whole argument is when Obama orders all flags across the nation lowered for a murder case to honor people that no one outside of their local area even knew personally.
Local
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I don’t often agree with you, but on this subject I agree 100%.
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I am a Desert Storm veteran, have served 26 years, and continue to serve.
The question here, in mind, isn’t if it’s legal for the President to do it, the question is, should it have been done? I agree with Mav and Capt America and most other people here, except FN, it should not have been done.
FN, you are wrong.
Sorry.
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I see your point now. Local – state.
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Probably this is only the second tme that I have agreed with you. I have thought for years that the flag is flown at half staff to often. Many times I have seen flags flying at half staff and had no idea as to why. If no one knows why then how is it honoring anyone?
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The shootings in Aurora were a tragic event but not a threat against our country. I’m sure several people said a prayer for the victims of this attack. This is the appropriate thing to do after such an event. I’m going with the men who served our country on this one. Thank you Maverick and Cap for your eloquent words.
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There are medal of honor winners that fought for our country and they do not get the flag to fly at half-mast for them when they die. These soldiers deserve it. Why are these people and coke snorting celebrities put above them?
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As someone who recently died and was never close to getting a flag lowered…Rodney King….Would say if he were here….”Can’t we all just get along?”
This is interesting to note and have some discussion, but when it comes to returning vets in this country…Actually when it comes to this country actually supporting the troops by actually joing in some how or contributing in some way….we’re still falling far behind from what I’ve read. We’re not doing so hot on the troops that are still alive….That seems to be a much more urgent situation than lowering the flag for situations that aren’t completely military.
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and that shouldn’t have happened either.
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okay, this didn’t appear where I meant it to. The thing that shouldn’t have happened either was Rosa Parks lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda.
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This doesn’t affect our whole nation Ron, should it be lower every time anyone dies? That would be every day, kind of loses the significance then doesn’t it?
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Flying the flag at half staff for a drugged up washed up singer is a little rediculous and every one knows whoever ordered it is out of line.
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Apples and oranges Ron, apples and oranges.
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A reminder of what half-staff means…a lowered flag in battle signals defeat, our flag remained aloft at Fort Sumner at half-staff, still visible above the walls, throughout the night giving proof that we were not defeated. Why only half way? Because a torn and bleeding patriot clung to the rope, holding it as he died, using the last ounce of his strength…to keep the flag up. That is why the flag is raised completely to the top and slowly lowered to half-staff to honor a fallen hero, symbolizing the deeds of a dying man who refused to allow the flag to fall and a nation that would not be defeated.
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Hell…You taught the old guy some history today…Thanks…
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Nice story, but it’s not verified. Nobody knows what went on inside the fort to the degree that this would be known. It’s one of those myths that take on a life of their own.
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You had some good points up to that……You know that’s not what’s being said. It’s about those wither in the military or national level that are considered people in service to the country. As far as I know they never did this for John Waynn even though they did give him a special medal for doing so many war films around that lfted the moral during and after the war. Someone who should have been on the list long before Whitney.
I think events like this would be appropiate for state flags, but for the countries flag it really should be reserved for those who have fallen that have provided service to the country. In that regard though I think that flag should have been at half mast for over a decade now for all the service personal who have been dying in the middle east while we barely recognize there’s a war going on other than the bill for it. Maybe that constant reminder would have helped get fires lit under some politicians to move things along to get bring an end to these situations that seem to do little other than get our people dead…
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Our men and women in the military give their lives for our freedom. They know the consequences and are willing to do what needs to be done. This shouldn’t even be a discussion.
We have Facebook and other social media to have prayers circles for situations like aurora, Katrina, etc. What about the soldiers that die every day protecting our freedom, our Flag? You seldom see them on the news. The honor of half staff is for them.
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Right…There’s so little mention of it anymore that it’s become out of sight out of mind…..How the hell did we get to this? A billion “We support the troops” signs don’t mean a lot when the people of the country are so removed from what’s going on that they barely have an understanding that they’re still getting wounded and getting dead. Over here we’re all shocked at the recent shootings…Over there…That’s just another work day…..
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I could see lowering the flag for an event similar 9/11 but lowering the flag of what this wack job did doesn’t make sense to me. If we start using this tradition for every time a mass shooting occurs it will become the new level the crazies will go after. Also lowering the flag for a crack head from new jersey was also disrespectful to the tradition.
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Then I’d say Bush and all his minions, as well as those who supported Iraq when they knew it was a farce…should never be considered for even a state flag for their treasons (Should have been charged as such a long time ago)….As for those who had to fight and/or die for the lies….They deserve half mast and so much more
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Should we give the victims purple hearts? Where do we stop with this?
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Ron,
We understand that, you however don’t seem to. As I said above the Colorado incident was a tragedy by any definition. It did not warrant the lowering of the flag of the United States on a national level.
All the President was doing was pandering to the masses in an election year and disrespecting the flag while he was at it.
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We as a country can find another way to honor our citizens. I am not sure if there are state flag codes, but what about half staff for them? This would show that one or more state is mourning for another. For whatever reason. Just an idea.
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I believe it is everyones flag and should be used appropriatly.
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Finally…we got through to you. You are right. It should only be used according to the Flag Code.
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T.j. I believe the flag code has been altered and should be updated. It is the last generations fault, if it was purely reserved for military servicemen I would not interpret it that way. But since it has not been used that way by states in particular over the pas 30 or so years it has been used for state represenatives (I believe it was flown at half staff when wellstone’s plane crashed) and other non military events.
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This post pretty much states one of two things..
1) You haven’t read the code and don’t have a clue what is contained within it.
2) You have read the code but you are lacking in comprehension skills.
“and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress”
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Again apples and orange Ron.. You don’t comprehend the issue. What we are upset about is that the Flag of the United States was lowered for the wrong reason. That is it.. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. It seems that you and President Obama have the same understanding.
Actually take some time and read that link I posted above.
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If it isn’t important to you why are you posting? So does that mean you are trolling?
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