Carter Hotel’s fate in federal hands
July 17, 2012 at 7:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
The fate of Duluth’s Carter Hotel hangs in the balance as the Bureau of Indian Affairs considers the Fond du Lac Band of Lake Superior Chippewa’s plans to tear down the 83-year-old building.
Continue Reading
This Diver broad acts and speaks like she’s an authority on structural integrity and building construction when the reality of it is that she is not. She’s grandstanding and trying to steal the land for the tribe from the city after they demolish it. The whole casino thing has done nothing but cause trouble for the last couple of years at least. It’s time to get rid of the casino along with all of it’s urban blight so downtown has a chance for rejuvenation instead of being a gathering spot for the dregs. Unfortunately, the feds seem to be sympathetic to their cause. Fun to lose must have greased someone’s hand high up.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
32 
8
I would guess even putting the hotel in tribal trust would mean another piece of property not paying taxes. I can understand the tribal reservations not paying taxes but question the legitamacy of buying property outside the reservation and being able to put it into tribal trust. I would also guess all this involves is the bands desire to expand the casino. If that is the case then build upon the casino they already have and leave the buildings that have historical significance alone. Alot of businesses have taken time and money to preserve the old structures that made Duluth what it was. I would expect the Fond du lac tribe to do the same.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
76 
8
My comments are on this quote – “I’m not really interested in the city’s ideas for the property,” – then why did you ask? Unless mutual & sincere interest is shown by all parties there is little chance any real resolution will had.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
56 
8
Lee……Am not saying I agree with Diver….but she did not ask what Duluth thinks about this….the BIA is asking Duluth, the Historical Preservation and the State Heritage for their comments about this. I do not like what she said about Duluth’s proposals on this tho….that she is not interested in Duluth’s ideas…..which by the way….are very lame…..as Duluth does not want to lose their on-going battle with the Casino….plus they would be losing “a very small pittance” in taxes from this site! Duluth seems to be “grasping at straws”…..again….and they usually always lose when it goes to litigation……thus, losing even more cash! The whole Casino should be moved to outside City Limits…..if legal….to do so…….as the Casino land is in a Tribal Trust, …..overseen by the BIA! I do not want to see Duluth lose on this whole Casino thing…..but, it appears as if we ( Duluth ) are gonna lose….again! Sheeesh!
Like or Dislike:
8 
5
Fact is, the Carter is neither historically significant or architecturally prepossessing to warrant preservation orders – irrespective of the Fond du Lac Indians or any other owner. It appears that the City of Duluth is travelling on a slippery slope when it misuses historic preservation in this way. Looking at the “District” – how many of you have ever heard of that??? – it appears to cover most of the downtown. Just where is a real estate developer going to build a new office building if such rigid controls are implemented by the City.
Don’t misconstrue what I’m saying here…. I’m all for historic preservation but this clearly demonstrates a ruse by the City to fight the Indians and in doing so is tying itself up in litigation and setting a dangerous precedent with regard to building codes, etc.
Why would a boutique hotel open next door to a casino in a city like Duluth? Get real!
Hot debate. What do you think?
34 
43
I don’t recall a whole lot of noise from the city about historic preservation when they built the Sheraton. Or when they demolished a whole city block of “Historic” buildings to build the tech village. I agree with Blighty, there’s nothing particularly significant about the Carter Hotel. Then again, depending on your idea of “historical” value…it is across the street from the Cozy, and right next to the Wabasha and Pawn Duluth. Don’t forget it also shares a historical district with the Last Place on Earth and the Duluth Family Sauna. The casino is the least scuzzy thing in that part of downtown.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
36 
12
As I see it, there are two issues here that should not be confused: historic preservation orders and expansion of Indian lands. I see no point in trying to engage in any discussion about the former with the commentators in this forum because they cannot see beyond their own noses. However, I warn you that the City is cutting off its nose to spite its face with this “district” that encompasses the majority of downtown. “Old Downtown” as I understood was east of Lake Avenue. If the DNT map is accurate and I understand it, this “district” is something altogether more comprehensive than “Old Downtown”.
But the racists on here are only focussed on one thing – villifying Karen Diver and slandering the FdL tribe and all the Native Americans. Such is the gutter level of discussion and I’m not going to enter into it this time except to say what I’ve said all along with this bingo casino arrangement.
End the acrimony NOW because this litigation is going to cost the City $$$$ and it is going to bring bad PR to Duluth – not because of Indians or gambling but people questioning the wisdom of entering into a “devil’s bargain” in the first place.
Moreover, it is clear that Duluth is hiding behind historic preservation and as a believer in HP, I resent it being misused in this way. How much HP was considered when Silver’s Dress Shop was torn down to make a parking lot for CVS pharmacy? The Tech Village in “Old Downtown”? Sheraton Hotel in “OD”?
I don’t disapprove of Tech Village or the Sheraton but the whole scenario demonstrates how full of **** City of Duluth administrators and executives are and how all the so-called “planning” amounts to a lot of hot air!
Like or Dislike:
12 
4
This 83 year old building is the same age as the casino building, which is still providing good service. With a little dusting and a coat of paint it might serve to provide complimentary rooms to its better customers, known as “Whales” in the casino business.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
38 
10
Fon-du-Luth has whales?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
24 
4
Well, they’re really more like fat dolphins than whales.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
25 
5
Why on Earth would we want the Indians to take more land off reservation!?! Pay the City of Duluth what you owe us! Does anyone honestly think the Bureau of Indian Affairs (why do we even have this bureau…seriously) will rule in favor of the City of Duluth? What a joke.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
67 
19
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
22 
40
As the Tribe is allowed to buy up pieces of Downtown and place those pieces of property into trust as reservation property, how much property tax would those properties pay to the city? Does that illustrate the concerns of some of us? Duluth has a meager enough tax base without losing even more a piece at a time.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
34 
7
some non reservation investors could always outbid them for the property… i say let them buy it and do with the property whatever they want, and then have the city open up a casino right in canal park if they dont want to pay the city for previous agreements made in good faith if not in good reason. What about non profit organizations and churches’ vast real estate portfolios they dont have to pay taxes either…you going to get up in arms about the loss of tax revenues from that?
Like or Dislike:
2 
5
ullysis writes…how much property tax would those properties pay to the city? Does that illustrate the concerns of some of us? Duluth has a meager enough tax base without losing even more a piece at a time.
Your going down a slippery slope here my friend…you must be ok with eminent domain because thats exactly what your referring to here. It wont be good for single family housing or small businesses if governments at will can use the excuse of the land being used for better use (i.e. higher tax revenues) to invoke eminent domain so they can put up big box office retail chains and huge apartment/condo complexes. And honestly your right precedent was set somewhere up in north east i forgot where but the courts ruled it was legal to use eminent domain to secure land to bulldoze the existing properties to be replaced by higher tax yielding structures. Its one thing to use ED in the construction of thingst that increase the public benefit through roadways and such but im not so sure the government should be able to use it just because a property doesnt produce enough tax revenue as alternative uses might.
Like or Dislike:
3 
2
The whole casino issue would disappear overnight if the state allowed all parties to open casinos. If the city were to even hint at opening their own casino, FDL leaders would quickly return to the negotiation table and start negotiating in good faith. As they currently see it, there is no incentive in negotiating with the city if the BIA and the Obama administration are biased in their favor. Question: When did the BIA get the authority to over rule federal courts?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
26 
7
Hugh Johnson said:
“Question: When did the BIA get the authority to over rule federal courts?”
As far as the management of Indian land….March 11, 1824
Like or Dislike:
13 
8
So, the most hated woman in Duluth and NE Minnesota is attempting to become the most hated woman in Minnesota. Oh wait that won’t happen, those liberals in the Cities would love a disgusting person like Karen Diver.
Hot debate. What do you think?
38 
36
Boy Karen Driver is one tough customer. Good hire for the Tribe. I don’t hate her I respect her. If someone was looking out for your interests wouldn’t you want them to be tough minded? I want to see everybody play by the rules, but let’s be honest and acknowledge that the US government and it’s representatives have been anything but honest in their dealings and negotiations with the first Americans. What I think is a history of shame. Nice to see them win a few.
Hot debate. What do you think?
29 
32
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
22 
32
I would like to know if this is allowed to happen, say a couple years from now the Nation decides to buy the Holiday Center, now would this become reservation property if requested?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
31 
13
Could happen, I suppose. Given the way the economy is going, and the way the city is actively trying to deter business, it might be the only viable option to keep the Holiday Center profitable.
Like or Dislike:
18 
8
In fairness, it is adjacent property. I agree that she was a good hire/choice for the tribe.
Hot debate. What do you think?
15 
16
And once the Indians own parcels of land in Duluth (or elsewhere) and declare them “reservation”, then the Indians will abolish all help from the white man like police, fire, building roads, hospitals, etc and start discriminatory hiring practices such as “American Indian preference” as well as complain about everything under the sun as being the “white man’s fault”. Oh, wait…never mind.
Hot debate. What do you think?
29 
16
Responding also to, “I’m not really interested in the city’s ideas for the property,” she said Tuesday when asked to comment on Lutterman’s suggestions. The city of Duluth seems to be bending over backwards to keep things civil and yet we are dealing with a woman that doesn’t even care about suggestions other than what SHE feels is best. To me, the scariest part is how far will this go? What is she going to declare “Native” lands next. Some see this woman as strong and moving in the best interest of the Band. If she is not capable of considering all options and all ideas, she should not be in a position of power. To me, she is on a power trip. I have no ill will towards native americans, but I do have a VERY STRONG beliefs about what is best for Duluth – the City. That includes all nationalities and we need to protect the rights of our city. Karen, you are not going to take Duluth over as a Native land – that is a battle you will LOSE!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
26 
10
MissEmmaLou…didn’t you know…everything is “native” because the Indians were here first. We were the evil white conquerors so that gives them the right to complain for hundreds and hundreds of years! What other country gives as much as we have to a conquered people? You lost…get on with your lives.
Hot debate. What do you think?
18 
23
She doesn’t seem to be losing so far. Quite the contrary. It seems the Indian chick has the upper hand, and she knows it. As the leader of a sovereign, (or even quasi-sovereign) nation, it’s very charitable of her to even sneeze in the direction of Don Ness or his municipality. No matter what anyone here might think, it isn’t an “even playing field”, and it never has been. For centuries, Indians have been actively oppressed in this very enlightened community. And no, that wasn’t ancient history. It’s has continued right up to the present, and is only more subtle than it was in the past. Some of the remarks and thinking on this board illustrate that fact more than any argument I could make. The fact remains, Karen is a strong leader looking out for her interests and the interests of the band. What the city of Duluth thinks really is irrelevant to any of it. They can either play the hand they are dealt (literally and figuratively) and benefit along with the tribe, or they can play “hardball” and waste more taxpayer dollars fighting a futile battle with an entity that is in a far better position than they are.
Hot debate. What do you think?
17 
17
Thank you Zavier! Your right some in this group obviously would fit right in in the past helping lie and cheat to take everything from the Indians while making a lame attempt to save face. It wasn’t as if the Europeans just showed up as some great conquering force draped in glory. Didn’t they start out needing the help of the first Americans? Then as their advantages grew they would stop at nothing to take what they wanted with no mercy or respect. “we won” someone said. I don’t know, but I am European American and wish my ancestors had handled many things differently.
Like or Dislike:
11 
6
Why aren’t the Dakotah Sioux staking a claim to Duluth? They occupied the land before the Ojibwe forced them out in the 17th and 18th century. Driver gets up on her high horse and would talk down to non-natives, all the while forgetting that the Ojibwe took this land by force from the Santee Sioux.
Yesterday, the DNT had an article about the return of archeological artifacts to the Bois Forte band. Some of those artifacts dated back more than 3000 years. Since the Ojibwe were only around for the past 300 years or so, how is it that those older artifacts are, as a tribal leader put it, “part of our heritage”? This is akin to Hit ler staking claim to ancient Polish artifacts because he happened to be the current occupier.
Does anyone else see a double standard here?
Hot debate. What do you think?
21 
11
I’m a local native guy, and I actually agree with you on the artifacts. Those artifacts, while they may have been found in the vicinity of Bois Forte, or whatever, are not part of the Ojibwe heritage. They are perhaps, more part of the shared heritage of everyone in the Northland, and I think maybe they should have stayed with the MHS, or whatever. On the other hand, Bois Forte has a very nice museum that will be able to provide for those artifacts quite well. I don’t know the care they were given by the MHS, but they themselves seemed to think that the conservation of the artifacts would be better dealt with by Bois Forte, and that they didn’t have the resources themselves to continue to handle the artifacts. All in all, it seems like everyone wins. Even so, I think it is really worth understanding that the artifacts do come from people that were here before the Ojibwe.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
21 
2
Exactly! With the exception of the very first person, when one person (or group) moves in, he replaces the current occupant. This is the way it has been throughout history.
The artifacts should be stored at a place where they are available for viewing, and appreciated. If that’s at Bois Forte, so be it. It surely beats a basement some place.
Like or Dislike:
5 
1
Let’s go back a few months…The last time the Carter Hotel was in the news, the paper reported that the city owned the property and the tribe was just a caretaker of the hotel. Now they are telling us that the tribe bought the building 2 years ago. Do the so-called city officials know what is really going on with the city they are supposed to represent??? Do the city attorneys know anything about the pre-existing contracts or tribal laws to effectively represent the city in it’s legal matters??? I’m begining to question whether anybody in city hall can see anything beyond their paychecks, because they don’t appear capable of representing the taxpayers who are paying them!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
21 
4
TOM said:
“Let’s go back a few months…The last time the Carter Hotel was in the news, the paper reported that the city owned the property and the tribe was just a caretaker of the hotel. ”
Are you sure? I remember seeing an article that said that about the parking ramp but, not the Carter.
Like or Dislike:
13 
3
Go back and check the articles on Dec12,2011 and Apr 20, 2012. The tribal band believes they can take up to 1 square mile of land for reservation trust land… where do you think they will stop?
Like or Dislike:
8 
3
TOM……I agree with most of what you said….but, I recall a while back, that the Tribe had indeed, purchased the Carter Bldg!
Like or Dislike:
10 
1
I vowed not to enter the expansion of Indian land “discussion” on here because I believe it is more racist diatribe than fair commentary but I’m going to add my two cents anyway and that’s my prerogative. To be honest, my primary interest is the extent to which this previously unknown “historic district” encompasses properties in the downtown CBD – especially west of Lake Avenue. To reiterate, I am an advocate of historic preservation where there is something worthy of it. I staunchly object to it being misused as a legal instrument by the City of Duluth to inflict financial damage against a party in which the City is battling in court. That is clearly what this is and it will only fan the flames and exacerbate the acrimony between the City and the Fond du Lac band.
That said, I want to make it clear that I don’t think Karen Diver and the Fond du Lac tribe are any better than the City. They have reneged on their agreement and stand in arrears of $8m or $9m,,, possibly more in casino proceeds owed to the City of Duluth. They were court ordered to pay.
If the City and the Band cannot find an amenable way forward then the circa 1984 agreement should be dissolved and the tribal land conveyed back to the City and reverted to private property subject to state and municipal laws and taxation. Essentially – casino gambling contract is null and void.
I think it is stupid and counterproductive that the two parties could not strike a compromise. Either way it is a Pyrrhic victory for whoever “wins” because in truth, they’ll both lose and only the lawyers will have gained.
Karen Diver? Well, I can’t say that I’m enamored of her as she strikes me as arrogant, conceited and antagonistic. She is well educated,,, Harvard, I think and is proving her mettle to the City of Duluth bureaucrats, like Gunnar and co. I don’t approve of her tactics anymore than I approve of the Mayor’s office and I’m not sure who started this pi**ing match but it should be stopped in its tracks.
Deferring this to a federal arbitrator is just escalating this to more bureaucracy, expense and polarizing the City from the Band to no one’s advantage. So, now an outsider from Washington, DC is going to decide how the downtown CBD should look in Duluth? Well, you can thank Ness and Gunnar for that!
I don’t begrudge Diver for looking after the interests of her constituents but surely an intelligent and well educated political leader that she is ought not have chosen this polemical path unless it is to self aggrandise her legal prowess for her own egotistical means.
She has one motive as regards the Carter Hotel and that is to tear it down and make way for casino parking on the site. That being true, she is acting in spite and only further poisoning the air that surrounds the already unsavory Fond du Luth casino.
The demolition of the Carter Hotel needn’t concern anyone if an acceptable and appropriate building were planned to replace it. The Carter is not architecturally prepossessing or historically important. It is simply not a nice looking building by any account but a parking garage in its place would be a major detraction to the local environment. And I believe that is exactly what she would put there if she succeeds.
Back to the City and its historic district… I think people ought to start asking City Hall about this “historic district” and its implications to new construction downtown. And am I the only one who thinks there is something ironic about the fact that the “Old Downtown” has the only two new buildings in the central business district (CBD)?
Like or Dislike:
6 
5
Quote jojo
And once the Indians own parcels of land in Duluth (or elsewhere) and declare them “reservation”, then the Indians will abolish all help from the white man like police, fire, building roads, hospitals, etc and start discriminatory hiring practices such as “American Indian preference
They could rebuild the Carter as a fire police station and instead of calling in the DPD they could simply lock people up and toss the key for small infractions considering they don’t have to respect your civil rights. As for the indian preference? They must do this to keep them within “Federal” guidelines as stated in the indian gaming rights act which says they must use the money generated for the sole support of the tribe, they must hire indians whenever possible and if there are openings they can hire non native people. Our Us government wrote this rule through the BIA.
As for simply getting rid of the casino? You may wanna think of the impact it will have on the city if they were forced to close, not only do they employ over 300 people at above average wages they support many supply businesses not to mention Approx $25,000 per month to Mn Power.
As for the Carter? They bought it outright and the city had nothing to do with it. The city owned the ramp and the Casino paid to man the booth and maintain it to which they received a small amount of the proceeds to pay for the employee in the booth. I believe the Casino paid for the lights.
Like or Dislike:
8 
2