OUR OPINION: DUI reforms — ‘What works’ and ‘what’s right’
July 15, 2012 at 1:00 am in Grand Forks Herald
N.D. lawmakers should ‘go to school’ on America’s most successful DUI policies. Continue Reading
OUR OPINION: DUI reforms — ‘What works’ and ‘what’s right’
42 Comments
This isn’t rocket science. If you make the first one not just a big fine, but several other requirements, and if you make driving under suspension an automatic lock up that gets progressively longer if done more than once……That will definitely be a deterrent. On top of that you just don’t play….Make it at least a year suspension if a second DUI, Five years for a third and total loss after that (Or maybe a total loss at a third offense.
One thing this opinion piece really didn’t take into account very well is that this issue has really come to light because of people like the kid who killed that family. He had a long record of DUI’s and driving under suspension. He probably should have been sitting in prison already instead of behind the wheel of a vehicle had the law been tough enough. I mean what the hell is this reluctance to make those laws extremely tough? Maybe the mind set is you can’t make it so tough that they can’t drive to work to support themselves or their families…….Tough…Their victims can’t drive anywhere any more.
Getting a state driving license is a privilege and not a right. If someone proves they’re not responsible to be trusted with that privilege then it needs to be taken away…..Not rocket science.
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This may not be rocket science, but it isn’t as simple as it seems. When one assumes there is a simple solution the “solution” sometimes causes more problems without solving any. Here’s a link to a site that addresses the drinking and driving issue. (The Herald editorial is right; we need to look at what works.)
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/drivingissues/1101913925.html
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What isn’t simple about having a huge hammer come down on anyone who drives under suspension? I mean a huge BFH come down hard…Jail time hard. That’s the real corner stone here. Sure they can get fined and suspended for the first DUI and they can be willing to let them have some latitude in some areas, but if they drive when they aren’t supposed to or if they are under total suspension, then a huge smack down….No playing what so ever. Hell…I’ve been on that other side….(Never DUI though I deserved to be caught many times when I drank)……If you want to make them take is serious then you hjave to make the punishment sift and harsh if they try to drive under suspension or beyond alloted times…..
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I hear the electric chair has ZERO repeat offenders.
Just sayin’…..
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If someone wants to drink, they have choices on how to do it. They can have a designated driver to go to the bar with. They can buy off sale and sit in front of the TV and pass out on the couch of their living room.
No one has the right to drink and drive. This puts other on the road at risk.
Would you board a plane with a drunk pilot???
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Sentence for DUS for an alcohol related violation is a mandatory minimum 4 days in jail at the moment, and does get progressively worse for each subsequent violation.
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I have said this 3 times in the past week already on other boards but here goes……If the offender’s BAC is a certain limit they should lose their driving privileges for life and their vehicle no matter if it is their first offense or not. Plus jail time (on their dime) and a hefty fine.
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tj, I presume that you would be willing to apply the same penalty to people using cell phones while driving, or those putting on makeup, reading a book or newspaper, disciplining their children in the back seat, etc. “Alcohol-realted” accidents, whether the accident was caused by the driver or not (A drunk pedestrian being hit by a sober driver is classified as an alcohol-related accident.), are not nearly as frequent as it might seem from reading or listening to the news. The recent tragic deaths should never have happened, but throwing the book at a first-time offender with a 0.08 BAC who was actually driving well will not solve the problem with the type of driver that was driving the wrong way on I-94.
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I’m not stuck on 0.08. I think it should apply to 0.10 and higher, people that are without a doubt well over the limit. This is my view on one subject…alcohol.
I do believe though that drivers should be cited for doing anything but driving. They don’t teach you how to talk on the phone while navigating traffic at driver’s school for a good reason. It is dangerous.
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That’s stretching things a bit too far for a point…Things like putting on makeup, reading items, or texting do indeed fall along the same lines as DUI….I don’t know what you mean by disciplining childern in the back seat, but if they are turning around then again you have someone who is as impaired in a sense, but those are not huge problem with many drivers doing it like drinking (I left out cells because with a headset on one ear like I use it’s no more of a problem than talkine to someone in the seat next to me….Unless we want to make it vehicles with nobody there, no radio, or anything other than the sound of the motor and traffic….I think we’d be going a bit too far.
On the other board someone had a story how in the middle east someplace they took people out to the desert and put a bullit in them for DUI so I guess we don’t want to go to those extremes either. It’s just that the way it is it’s broken and needs to be fixed…
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I don’t answer my cell phone when I’m driving. There is nothing that can’t wait until I’m somewhere safe. I will drink a cup of coffee but that is about it. My vehicle is not a fast food joint, or a bar, or a social media site, etc… I take driving very seriously. I don’t screw around behind the wheel. My vehicle means alot to me. I don’t want a dent, a scratch, or a door-ding in it. Plus the thought of hitting someone else and hurting them scares me.
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In all fairness Glen, while i see where you are going with this, DUI’s are known to kill and injure more innocent victims than distracted driving.
Not that it isnt an issue but distracted driving for the most part affects a person for a split second and then they are back to giving 100%.
A drunk is a threat to everyone from the moment they turn the key and the engine starts until they either arrive home or are picked up by the cops.
For this particular discussion, i would rather take my chance sharing the road with someone drinking coffee or talking on the phone as opposed to a drunk with no wits and reduced thought process.
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Since I had a seven year old family member die from a drunk driver, I will tell you that I am biased on this subject.
Its high time for the State of North Dakota to address tougher DUI laws. We have a guy here that has had seven DUI’s. About two weeks ago, he was driving (no license of course).
He should have been in prison long agfo. The judge and states attorney coddled him. How long before he kills someone innocent?
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Let me first state that you should not drink and drive, I think we all agree on that. But, with things the way they are, too many people it is worth the risk. We as a society have tried for years to place the responsibility on the individual not to drink and drive. And, it is not working. I think the solution is to get some form of affordable public transportation, affordable being the key word. I had a friend who had a suspended license, and found it was going to cost them over 450/month to cab to work. So, they drove to work because they simply could not afford to pay that every month. Get affordable, reliable public transporation and watch the DUI numbers drop.
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It’s tough enough to get enough funding for Dial a Ride for seniors…..I really doubt anyone will be willing to subsidiize something like that for drunks….
A couple years ago they tried something like that with an old school bus that made trips down town to the bars and back to UND. I don’t know what exactly happened to it, but I haven’t heard about it for a long time so I assume it failed. When I first heard about it I wondered who’d be driving that nightmare. A bunch of drunk people in a bus….Sounds like a party right? I’m guessing that often the atmosphere was anything but festive.
It really does come down to the individual’s responsibility….They just need laws with enough teeth to them to make a difference…
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You’re absolutely correct, tundrabeast. It’s time for the drunkies to take responsibility for their actions and man up to their choices. If they have enough money to buy enough drinks to get their BAC over the legal limit, they have enough money for a cab. But they don’t want to spend their money on a cab, they want the rest of us to subsidize transportation for them so they can spend their money on another drink or maybe have some money to go to one of the all night cafes after they’re smashed so the servers can clean up their vomit, pick up the mess they make, and call the cops when the fights start. Making life easier for the drunkies by providing them with transportation is not the solution—-making them accountable for their actions in the form of much harsher penalties is.
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Tom,
The Air Force has a program that will come pick up Airmen anywhere they may be and take them home whether it be in Grand Forks or the base.
The Air Force still has people get DUI’s.
I can tell you exactly what the person is thinking because i have had this discussion with a vast number of those who had got caught.
#1 reason – I didnt think i would get caught.
#2 reason – I didnt want to leave my car at the bar.
#3 reason – Everyone knows the first one is knocked down to reckless driving.
Bottom line: The law has no teeth, Lawyers save their rears and until they face something really unpleasant they arent going to stop.
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Longer and harder sentences don’t work if they did the numbers would go down and people wouldn’t be saying longer and harder.
Through the years the sentences for these crimes have become longer and harder but people just adjust to what was hard is now the norm.
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They can’t be too long or hard when you see all the DUI’s and especially the drivning under suspension arrests. Those are where the law first has tio come down extremely hard. The first time caught you automatically do a couple weeks, the second time 6 months, and into years after that. You don’t play and they’ll figure it’s in their best interest to find ways to not get DUI’s or drive under suspension. This will work I can pretty much guarentee. But the law has to be tough and basically unshakable through legal wrangling….The states have to say they no longer will play the game with whatever lawyer they can get to fight for them. I mean they still get a fair trial like any other offense, but if found guilty……very strong penalties with very little wiggle room.
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When ” longer and harder” sentences mean mandatory jail fines and confiscation of vehicles, you’ll see results. So, shout out to ND Legislature: How about u folks grow a pair? The DNR can confiscate a vehicle for taking a deer out of season. Do something about this problem or find yourself voted out. All for now.
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How long and hard can they be?
A guy in Fargo managed to get 14 DUI’s.
A person shouldnt have enough life available to serve the sentences for 14 DUI’s.
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This got me thinking. If Grand Forks really wanted to they could run city busses on the weekends in a loop around to the bars. Missing some hotel bars and restaurants that have fairly busy bars without those the list is still huge.
Hub Bar
Parrot’s Cay Tavern & Grill
Down Under Sports Bar
Joe Black’s
Sledster’s Food & Brew
Gilly’s Bar & Grill
El Roco
Rumors Lounge
Big D’s Bar & Grill
Crosstown Lounge
Diamond Lounge
Denny’s Tavern
O’Really’s Irish Pub
Broken Drum Bar
Tj’s Sports Bar
Kelly’s Bar
Judy’s Tavern
Bun Lounge
Ho Sports Bar & Casino
Borrowed Bucks Road House
Long Haul Saloon
Bonzer’s Sandwich Pub
Broken Drum Casino
Southgate Casino Bar & Grill
Muddy Rivers Bar & Grill
Charlie Brown’s Bar
Big Daddy’s Casino
Mc Menamy’s
The Highlander
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no
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Typical solution from the left: Spend money on funds we don’t have.
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Ok none……Just for shats and gigles….You drive the bus for the first couple weeks….Then let us know how that’s working….Oh…You better bring combat gear just in case…
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http://www.aanorthdakota.org
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I’ll tell you what i think. (just try to stop me, right?)
I think you have an interesting idea.
However, Like Scooter implied, why does GF need to fund/support it?
This is one of those moments that a person gets an idea and turns it into a moneymaker.
Buy a bus, outfit it to protect the driver from drunks and charge people a modest amount for an all night pass or an annual pass.
Set a schedule and drive a route all night.
Its a business that puts money in your pocket and keeps drunks off the streets.
I’m sure its not that simple but you get the point.
You set up the route and i’ll start drinking again just to ride the bus. deal?
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There’s a new article in here today about a guy who is up for his 14 DUI and is considered a Menance to society now. He could get up to five years. Had he got a year the second time, five years the third, and ten the third and so….There’s be no 14th time. Should he have to endure such long sentences for his insisting to drive after drinking? Do you want to bet your families life against his freedom. The possible harm his actions can bring makes him a Menance to society much earlier than by the 14th time….This is a number one prime examply of how the system is broke and needs to be fixed.
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If jail space is an issue we could always find other ways to remove people like this from being a danger to society.
But to many people thats just being cruel.
Its better to wait until he kills someone, then we can justify locking him up for a few years.
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I think one deterrent that would be fairly cheap to implement is a free breathylizer service at establishments such as bars and restaurants. For me, I am big enough that I can drink 3 or 4 beers and I would still have perfect hand-eye coordination and cognitive functioning. However, I still do not allow myself to drive if I have more than 2 beers because I fear I might blow an 0.08 if I get pulled over. I know that there are people who are out there that get drunk, but firmly believe they are able to still drive, so I feel as though a breathylizer test to show them otherwise would do some good. People get stupid when they drink, and sometimes the only way to get them to understand is to show them the proof. This is just my take.
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If you’re in jail, you can’t drink and drive. Lock em up!
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Stiffer penalties, mandatory this or that, etc. MIGHT work, but in order to drop the “punishment hammer”, the offender first needs to be proven guilty.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: When you have attorneys whose entire careers are based upon deflecting attention AWAY FROM what their client has actually done, (and as a result *proving* them “not guilty” of what they’ve been accused of), it’s difficult to apply whatever consequences are appropriate.
Does anyone remember when the famous former Sheriff got pinched for driving impaired for the umpteenth time years ago? His attorney actually said something in his defense that went something like this:
“He wasn’t even on duty….”
Of course, the law doesn’t say you can drive impaired all you want if you’re NOT on duty. It was just attorney-induced attempted deflection away from what the real issue actually was.
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#1 problem with this nation is Lawyers.
In virtually every situation where you see things being screwed up there is a Lawyer somehow involved.
Cops get them off the street and Lawyers find an “i” not dotted on page 125 of a report and the guys sentence goes from Life in
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…Prison to probation and back on the streets.
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Guy kills an entire family on I-94 and has a BAC of 3 times the legal limit.
He will never face the death penalty for his actions yet what he did is no different than picking up a gun and randomly shooting an entire family.
Maybe if Lawyers werent allowed to plea these cases down to nothing it would send a message.
If it were up to me, as soon as it was proven that he drove drunk and with out any doubt he was behind the wheel when those people died.
He would be sentenced to death.
He willfully chose to drive drunk, thats no different than willfully pulling a trigger in my opinion.
Accountability now, not after 14 DUI arrests….
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Klein will not face any jailtime for killing the family of three. He was killed too.
http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/241050/
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Good catch Glenn.
I was reading the article and scrolled and my eyes missed that one single line.
But even if he had lived, he wouldnt face anywhere near the punishment he would have deserved.
I dont want to sound cruel but at least its one less menace in society.
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His BAC was more than 3 times the limit. It is this type of repeated drinking and driving where the hammer needs to fall. Dropping the level to .08 was a federal mandate. North Dakota wouldn’t have dropped it from .10 if the federal government hadn’t required it in order for the states to continue receiving money for highway repair. Now we have more “criminals” who would not have been considered drunk drivers until relatively recently. In a previous article Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem was quoted as saying that he is concerned about the number of DUI arrests. That simply is poor logic. If the arrests go up, the drunk driving will go down and fewer people will be killed. While there have been a couple of recent horrific accidents, the number of accidents have decreased significantly.
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I agree, but I’m also very much in support of extreme measures against those who drive under suspension…..First time…The car is imponded for the length of suspension (Even if sober), and jail time that jumps into months and years very quickly.
My guess as to why they might have a tough time miplementing such laws is because it might get challenged all the way to the supreme court as being “Cruel and unusual” for such crimes….
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I’m having a hard time blaming attorneys for any of this. People don’t pay them the big bucks to do the right thing or do what’s fair—they pay them to get them off or bargain the charges to get them the lightest sentence. I find more fault with the prosecutors agreeing to these plea deals and judges handing out lenient sentences. There needs to be tougher laws and stricter mandatory sentencing guidelines.
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Prosecutors are Attorneys as well.
They take care of each other in the same way Sharks will take care of each other.
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Significant progress is being made.
http://www.centurycouncil.org/sites/default/files/images/AIDF-Rates.gif
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