Pool repairs too rich for East Grand Forks council
July 11, 2012 at 2:15 am in Grand Forks Herald
At a minimum, the East Grand Forks outdoor swimming pool won’t be repaired before the summer of 2013. And, unless there’s a dramatic change in council members’ sentiment, a complete fix at any time is in doubt. Continue Reading
They made the right decision. I thank them for it.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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They made the right decision for now with the bids they had. I agree with Wayne Gregoire…get it rebid since the bids were so much higher than engineers’ estimates. Hopefully, they continue to look at alternate ways to fund a pool in EGF. Maybe they will look “outside the box” for answers. Again, I don’t know how much raising user fees would help, but I would pay more to have a good, safe pool operating in EGF for my kids.
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OK, you can all make fun of me for this, but here’s an idea. There are lots of talented organizers in the EGF/GF area who could do a bang-up job with this…maybe they wouldn’t be able to raise the entire cost, but I bet they could raise at least as much as was raised for Sherlock Park. The idea is to get “SOP”ped! (Save Our Pool) Those who donate can get a celebrity “SOP”ping wet in a dunk tank. You could start with local celebrities/media personalities, etc. Maybe there are some national celebrities who would like to be dunked for a good cause and their wealthy friends could donate money to the pool to see it (or make it) happen! Who’s with me?????
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Not a bad idea, but the big difference is that there was a lot of sentimentallity to the park the burned down so it was pretty easy to motivate people to do something. Then there’s the over all idea regarding how much bang you’re going to get for your buck. With the park kids will play as long as weather permits. With the pool you have something like two and a half months. That alone makes it difficult to garner a lot of enthusiasm. So it’s definately going to be a uphill swim no matter what. Maybe some organization will be willing to give a donation towards a new pool, but that doesn’t appear too likely
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Actually, there’s a lot of sentimentality for Sherlock Pool. At one point on Facebook, there was a group with hundreds of members called “I grew up at Sherlock Pool”. (That was before the public sites “migrated”.) Lots of kids lived there, “kids” who are now adults. And even though they don’t live in EGF anymore, there might be support from them for this endeavor. It’s just an idea, but I’m willing to be there are some creative minds out there who could expand on this idea and make it work.
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Oh tj.. your stepped in city poop.. wipe your shoes off before walking in your house.. That’s what I smelled the other day
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Why would you post this comment? Agree or disagree with her but this is not the forum for personal attacks.
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Unless there’s a dramatic change in council members’ sentiment, it’s time for a dramatic change in the council’s membership.
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Bus kids to GF pools? I have to say, I really, really hate that idea. Aren’t the GF pools already pretty crowded?
It sounds like they made the right decision for now, but I do hope they come up with a solution that still leaves us with a pool.
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How would the logistics of that work? Just run a bus to Riverside and back all day….With the cost for that I think that too would be dead at the starting gate
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Yeah, not a very well thought out plan.
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The bus idea is not a bad idea because the buses don’t have to be every 15 minutes. Every hour every two hours plan your pool schedule around the bus. Some retired person will take the bus driving job
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Maybe it’s been mentioned and I missed it someplace. But has it been discussed what the bottom price would be to basically continue to repair it so it could be operated for two months a year. I mean they must have an idea that to do crack repair without going full bore, and maybe something with the pumping equipment that will allow them to continue for a fraction of the bill they’re presenting for a total face lift.
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They’ve done “crack” repairs in the past. This pool has had many repairs over the years. It was built in something like ’62. This was to be much more extensive. Read the article from last week. Read archives from the Exponent. This has been a topic of discussion for a long time. Some of the estimates were around 2 million which was quite a bit higher than the engineers’ estimates.
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Is it just that the cement has to be replaced because it’s crumbling or something? I’m just trying to get a bead on why if it’s used for such a short peoriod of time each year it can’t just continue to be patched. I mean if it’s a safety issue or is really falling apart that’s one thing. It’s just that the price tag to do a good job seems like a very hard sell….
You mention people who swam there as kids. I guess when I was three or four we used to live across the street from the pool that was there before they tore it down and put this one up later in 62. I usderstand I also scared the hell out of life guards there because I’d sometimes find a way to get outside when baby sitters weren’t watching and go to the pool right under the ticket counter and jump into the deep end….(I really liked the water)……Apparently I was having a great time bobbing around, but life guards were totally freaked….After about the third time…They put a harness on me when I went in the back yard……Good thing I didn’t know the river wasn’t too far…
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My grandpa said he learned to swim in the Red River. I guess there used to be a swimming area on the East Side under the railroad trestle by Whitey’s.
Have you seen photo’s of the old swimming area in Riverside Park? That was pretty cool back in the day. I saw photos of Central Park….that used to be a great park. The gardens were really nice and they had a wading pool of sort.
University Park had that long canal through it. My parents told me about that. The pool at Turtle River State Park….man I was sad when they filled that in. We drove out there all the time to swim.
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I sort of remember actually being in that wading pool at Central as a kid when it was in operation…..I think it was shut down by the time I lived around the park area when I was about eight. I’m guessing the winters and the floods made that a constant repair bill they gave up on too.
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Don’t go there tj.. Your showing your age..
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Just don’t pee in the pool
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Wow! So what are the kids suppose to do when/if this pool shuts down?
I grew up on the east side and spent many summer days at this pool! I hate to think of what kind of trouble I would of got in if I didn’t have a pool to go to on those summer days when my parents were at work and left to my own vices.
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Exactly crisitie…that’s why we need to at least try to do something about it. Hence my earlier post. Just need people to volunteer to put a giant fund raiser together. I’m trying to garner some support from the group that organized the Sherlock Forest Playground rebuilding. I would be more than willing to help, but I have no expertise in major fund raising. Need to find someone with that calling card! Do you know anyone?
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open a fire hydrant and be like the kids in the pictures of Detroit.
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Just “Love” how some people have to click “dislike” just to be oppositional…figures.
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I think, if the public could do some fund raising, along with a couple of sugar daddies, if $500,000 could be committed, the city council could find a way to fund some type of modified project. I was hoping EGF’s tax rate was very low so you could argue that it’s worth a tax increase, but the rate is higher than similar cities (Crx, TRF, Bemidji, Detroit Lakes). This is really too bad.
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I agree with the city council. They need to take another look at this. If the taxpayers were allowed to vote on the issue I would be satisfied with the outcome…just like the school referendum.
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Nice try tj.. Why don’t you ask them why they dump most of the money into the hockey season..?
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Before we start asking for a vote to raise taxes, we should try grants and other funding options. Let’s not forget the rebidding process.
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But what would the outcome be tj?
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I live in EGF…and I would definitely be willing to pay a bit more to use it and also would be willing to contribute to a fund to help save the pool. We have 3 young kids. Just like with Sherlock Park…. funds were raised to help re-build it. Granted the pool costs a lot more money, but funds could be raised privately to help put a dent in the amount. Especially the extra amount over what was expected.
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Hi folks. Interesting discussion. I want to clarify a couple of points from above while noting I do not speak for the Council nor am I taking a position on the renovation project.
First, and foremost, no one proposes to close the pool. If the renovation project is delayed or cancelled, the exisiting pool will remain open for the foreseeable future. The City will perform any required maintenance.
Also, typically, we refer to “tax rates” as proportion of total tax levy as a function of total tax capacity, which is loosely a function of property wealth in a community. The League of Minnesota Cities publishes all tax rates annually. The 2011 report is here: http://lmc.org/media/document/1/propertytaxreport2011.pdf.
EGF and Crookston rates are very close (EGF is slightly lower). EGF is also lower than TRF. Bemidji is a little lower than EGF, and Detroit Lakes is significantly lower. These comparison are not always apples-to-apples, however. DL has significantly more property wealth due to its preponderance of lake properties that are assessed at higher rates. It is a complex system. Note also that tax rates also include school, county, and special district taxes – not just city. But, without some clarification, I do not concur with the notion that EGF taxes vary significantly from the communities listed above.
Good discussion. It’s good to see a productive conversation with analysis and suggestions.
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Scott: My observation was with the city’s share of the tax rate. TRF’s total rate is higher than EGF because the county and school are much higher than Polk & EGF school. I mentioned that EGF’s city tax is higher than the other four cities. If EGF was in the Bemidji, TRF or D.L. range, one could argue that the levy might be too low. I never used the word significantly, you did. Even the governor doesn’t get it. Remember him chastising Bemidji’s proposed increase a couple of years ago. Bemidji’s city tax rate was significantly lower than Crx, EGF or TRF. Oops, now I did use that darned word. Thanks for your response.
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Thanks, Alvin. I provided the wrong link previously. http://lmc.org/media/document/1/propertytaxdata2011.pdf
There are caveats to the discussion of local property tax rates and tax capacity. A higher tax rate may or may not result in net higher taxes per parcel depending on valuation. Generally speaking, you are correct.
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Thank you Scott. I am pleased that you took the time to join the discussion.
For those that don’t know him….Scott is the EGF City Administrator.
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For kids from 2-92, swimming pools/beaches are better than all the drugs and ‘shrinks’ combined keeping the mental ship on course, especially with 60 day summers.
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Listen up people.. Don’t think for a second the our city leaders has a plan for the pool.. Actually, They have no plan at all.. For the record… I love Crag Buckalew.. He is a good person.. His remarks for busing of the children from here to grand forks and swim there only undermines of what East Grand Forks is… it is not what I excepted from Crag.. And It was nothing to put in a bold plan to get East Grand Forks back on the players list..
I don’t think Scott fully understands all that sucking sounds of this cities money is going to grand forks will make our city a place not to go..
tj.. Don’t expect anything that EGF says what they are going to do.. They can’t do anything to build this city back.. They have no idea how to do it..
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Even if they did bus people to GF instead of fixing the EGF pool do you really think that minor two and a half month ordeal would make a real dent in monies going to Forks? I mean you’d charge for the bus ride first right? So it all wouldn’t be going to Riverside Pool anyway.
Apparently you feel somehow that GF wizzed in you Wheaties or something. I say you because you seem to be the only one who thinks GF is somehow trying to be some sort of overlords to EGF. I thought you were being toung in cheek before, but I see you’re actually serious. Unless you know something I don’t, then I have no idea where this paranoia comes from.
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Most people seems to think a free bus ride to gf’s pool is free.. The insurance rates for EGF needs to be paid to transport these children to a grand forks pool.. There are hidden cost that many don’t realize..
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Rick: getting back to the subject of this piece, Scott stated that the city plans to continue operating the pool. There is no immediate threat otherwise. Big improvement projects are worthy of a longer look. There are people in every city who behave as you do, speaking in cliches and coming to conclusions without a dialog. I think pool supporters should be excited by some of the information presented here from an actual city official.
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It is great that Scott is addressing the forum here. The organizers of the Save Our Pool (myself included) understand that the pool is not going to close this summer. We appreciate that they are keeping it open, as that was the prior plan, even when the plan was to start repairs in August. However, if the pool is inspected and does NOT pass inspection, it WILL be closed. Parks and Rec Dept. does not expect the pool to pass. Our group is trying to be proactive and work WITH the city. We feel that there are many talented and hard working individuals who could put their heads together and come up with a long term plan. Private citizens are VERY capable of this…we don’t always need the government to “fix” everything. With that being said, in order to access grants from certain companies, you need the community and city to work together to show that there is a commitment to make this happen. Our group, SOP, is simply trying to get community and city support to look at pool options for the long run, not just this summer. We are extremely pleased with the response that we have already gotten from the city council. Proud to say that I am from EGF.
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Melody: You seem to be making an honest effort, but you need to trust what I am about to suggest. Call Scott and ask for a copy of the latest Mn Health Dept’s pool inspection report. I don’t even know the EGF city crew, but I’d bet a ton of money that there’s a few small things on the report that have already been fixed. City crews have such pride in these facilities, there’s no way that they’re going to let this pool close, FOR THE LONG HAUL!!! Scott might even tell you that $20,000 here and $40,000 there will provide some of the needed maintenance to keep the thing up and running. Make the call and tell me if I was wrong.
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Well if you have a ton of money to bet….I know a project in EGF that could use a few pounds of it……
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When I read this, I checked my wallet. A ton of money is actually $13.00. Sorry.
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Way ahead of you Alvin. My husband has already called Mr. Huizenga’s office. He has e-mailed him some info, but I’m not sure it’s what you were talking about. The group pushing to save the pool has no intention on trying to raise money that isn’t needed. We are trying to work with the city and be proactive about the pool. I am quite sure that no one at the city wants the pool to close, but why should taxes be raised to keep it when we haven’t even tried anything else? That’s my point. There are lots of ideas out there. We just want a community forum that shows the city that we support this discussion. The city council members have been more than receptive. This group literally just developed yesterday. Give us a little time before you judge our efforts. We aren’t “jumping into the deep end” without getting the information first:)
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I agree with you Melody.. The VFW supports our fire department by buying a rescue truck for us.. Maybe it is time to ask the well to do for help.. East Grand Forks is far better than grand forks (lower case) any day..
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Rick…Just to show you some of us from Forks aren’t trying to be overlords (I’d watch out for people from Fisher though…They might try to flank you and you’d never expect it)…I’ll drop a few BUCKS (UPPER CASE) when a fund is set up…
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Thanks, Tundrabeast! Maybe you can take advantage of one of our fund raisers where you get to “SOP” someone (dunk them in the pool and donate $ to do it) ….maybe Rick??? See Rick, you CAN help the cause;)
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Fisher schools are already bused it’s children in East Grand Forks school system long time ago.. This is nothing new..
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Melody….I e-mailed Marc Demers Wed night with my support for the pool and he was nice enough to call back and we had a long chat about the pool, other priorities in town, etc. He mentioned the save our pool group as well, and it was meeting at the time of his call to me. I agree it would be nice to get a grass roots effort together to help raise some funds. We could never cover the entire costs….but every little bit helps. Mr Demers mentioned there is no danger of closing the pool for good, but it might have to be down for one summer. After the larger than expected money increase for the fix, he wanted to step back to see what options there are for funding, as there are several other things going on too. Not the first time I have spoken to him and he was very informative. Kudos to Mr Demers for taking the time to call.
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This pool in EGF when the inspectors done with it will be deemed to be closed due to excessive chlorine water into the ground water that will poison the ground under it.. If future leakage in the future continues.. This pool will be shut down..
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I thought it was great that Scott came online and spoke to us. I would like to see more of this type of interaction with city leaders.
I have spoken with several great people on AV. But… there are those I would rather ignore. I won’t be baited into an argument or put up with harrassment.
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Being that your are correct tj.. Scott does has his hands on the pulse for EGF.. However though.. The Minnesota State EPA will tell EGF to close the pool to due to the chlorine being so near the river.. Just to remind everyone.. Century Apartments pool is leaking big time.. The have to add water to it’s pool everyday ..
Talk about ground contamination.. I don’t think anyone can win this discussion..
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Don’t take the bait, tj! As dangerous as chlorine is, chlorinated water is not a poison. It actually has a name. It’s called water. Also, there is no such thing as the Minnesota State EPA.
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Chlorine water kills everything it its path for over 5 years.. It will kill all the vegetation around it.. No bugs or worms will escape it’s deadly results.. If your not sure if my facts are wrong.. Look it up for yourself on the internet….
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That depends on the strength and containment area. I haven’t hauled any, but I know in pure form it’s nasty stuff, but in a mixed form that’s safe enough for humans to swim in….I’m no chemist, but I’m pretty sure the whole pool could drain into the Red and it would soon break up into fairly harmless particles as it got carried away in the current. Might be some problem by the dam if it didn’t flush over right away, but where it wasn’t contained it probably wouldn’t do any harm.
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Nothing he says is true. I dump $100 of chlorinated water on my lawn every month and it grows wonderfully. Pay no attention to thisguy. He’s a genuine rick.
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Tundra.. If the pool did break open.. The fish kill zone would be at least be from the pool the south end of EGF before it dissipates it the river.. Never forget the smell when you put bleach in you washer.. Ten times stronger… This River should never be missed with on people’s non thinking nonsense..
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I read it on the internet, so I know it’s true! /sarcasm
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I won’t Alvin. Thank you for the info.
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You forgot Alvin You can’t drink pool water.. High levels of chlorine in a pool is to stop germs from going from one person to another.. Grab a glass and drink it for yourself.. I’ll meet you in the emergency room after.
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Yes, it sanitizes when you splash it around, but the Minnesota State EPA will not close a pool because of a 3,000 gallon per day leak. I tried to call them to confirm that, but they don’t exist. Let’s move on.
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If you bus kids to Riverside charge them extra to get in since their parents don’t want to pay GF taxes which underwrites the loses at the pool. GF just put a bunch of money into Riverside for GF kids not EGF kids to use because their parents and elected officials are to cheap to fix their own pool.
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Jack…we aren’t cheap. We are frugal. LOL
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Frugal is when you save your money for something more important. Cheap is when you save your money because you can use smeone else’s stuff instead.
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I don’t mooch. I prefer to be independent. We will fix our pool at the right price. Let the new bidding process begin…..
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I now work and have worked for a lot of places in the past (Especially for a city Street Dept) that never quite seemed to get the difference between frugal and cheap. Usually the end result is that by being cheap on important things they end up needing to be fixed or replaced in fairly short order, or they just don’t work as well as they should. In the end the cheap route often turns into being more costly than it would have been had they spent more the first time
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The state EPA type agency is the Minnesota pollution control agency. They shut down the city burn and composite site in crookston.
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0 public funding for this pool! If you can raise the funds privatly go for it. Egf polk county and the state of minnesota are already in a budget crunch! We need all of our tax dollars to repair and operate essential functions of the city. They are not ment for a luxary!
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Pay for it with user fees.
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No busing or driving is needed to get your kids to riverside pool. Give your 12 year old ten bucks and tell him to get off his lazy butt put down the x box controller and ride his bike down to the pedestrian bridge over the red and to riverside!
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