Tribes push to open off-reservation casinos — and face stiff resistance
July 9, 2012 at 12:58 am in Grand Forks Herald
After buying a new chunk of land 50 miles north of San Francisco, the Federated Indians of Graton Rancheria just broke ground on a new, Las Vegas-style casino. It will be the largest in the Bay Area, with 3,000 slot machines and parking for more than 5,000 cars. Continue Reading
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You’ve clearly never stepped foot on a reservation. Why don’t you drive through one and see how well they run things out there.
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If Obama gets another 4 years you wont be able to tell the difference between our nation and a reservation anyway.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Can you think of a better reason to deny their petition?
In a very cynical way I agree with you. ND never played lets make a deal like FL. The results speak for themselves
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Why on earth would we ever allow the most corrupt form of government in our state to run casino’s in our cities? If our cities need casino income or the related tourism, then we need to change our rules and allow either the State, city, or some non-profit the legal ability to do this. If we allow a tribe to do this, we as a state lose ALL ability to enforce any laws regarding these places. Once land is put into BIA trust, we as a state have ZERO authority on that property. However, if we were to allow a non-profit to run such an entity the citizens of our great state would have the power to insure they abide by our laws and that the money actually goes to those it’s intended to help. The choice is ours. If we need casino’s to spur development in our cities who do want to be the benefactors? The few who have shown they’re not very good stewards with their casino profits? Or, the State’s non-profits who have shown over and over their compassion and care for our state’s most vulnerable populations and causes. I opinion of this writer is the latter.
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Screw the Sioux? What planet have you been on? UND’s done more for this group of individuals than they have for ANY other group. We’re all Americans and residents of this state. Yet, this one group of people has way more opportunities at this university than any of the state’s other residents and you think they’re getting screwed? We’re all born in this earth with NOTHING. To think you deserve more or someone owes you something is the biggest falacy there is in this world. I wish I was born to Bill Gates. I wasn’t. But luckily I was born to parent who cared. They kept me on the right path and made sure I got an education. After that it was up to me to decide who I wanted to be. I hate to burst your bubble but it’s the same way for EVERYONE else. And until everyone in this world figures this out, we’ll have constant wars and in-fighting and one group after another of people believing they deserve more than another because of their ancestors, who they are, or some other “your screws are loose” reason. If you didn’t like your upbringing you need to talk to your parents, not blame everyone else. But most of all, if you didn’t like your upbringing, then get your act together and insure your children have a better one. That’s how you improve yourself and your people. Not by blaming others and expecting freebies from them. Man up!!!
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Not a problem if they do it on STATE controlled land and abide by the STATE’s rules. You know…. Like every single other type of casino would have to do. Racism works both ways you know.
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Steve Wynn does not own the Bellagio. By the way he ismaking all his money, this should make Shurkey happy, in Macua, China. That is the same place Adelson is getting the money to give to the Republicans for future online gaming.
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Who do you think actually owns the Indian Casinos?
The Indians?
LOL!
Some rich white guy is pulling the strings and using the Indians rights to have Casinos as a way to make a fortune.
In return, he gives the Tribal elders a cut.
Ever wonder why the reservations look like a warzone when they have a fortune flowing in from Casinos and Govt handouts?
Because the Govt handouts are all that gets down to the lower class.
Casinos are a sham that only serve the puppetmaster at the top.
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I don’t know about the ones in this area. But when Prairie Knights (south of Mandan ND) was built.. Yes it was built by people in Vegas, but the stipulations of the contract were that it had to be turned over to the reservation after 5 years of being built. Since that time it has been under Tribe Management.
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Turned over within 5 years.
Vegas should have zero involvement in these.
and do you really think that the people in Vegas just “walk away” after 5 years?
yeah, right.
Pull the other one.
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You know, before you open your mouth you should use something like google and learn. http://www.standingrock.org/visit/
Look about half way down the page under the heading Prairie Knights Casino.
Yes they did walk away.. Yes the Tribe owes and Manages the Casino.
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Vegas takes money from the entire country/world the expenses of addiction are spread mostly to other states which have to deal with the mess and pay for it. What the tribes want is a legal monopoly. If we are going to allow them to build off reservation the it should be open to anyone to build.
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Agreed
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Not trying to take anything from the tribes. They can build casinos all the want on the reservation. What they want to do is build off reservation and NOT pay for the cost and have not to follow state regulations. They expect emergency services and law enforcement for free. They also expect to pay no property taxes on these casinos because they will be Indian Land.
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Yep. Just like Duluth. Wait, not anymore. They had an agreement to do just that. The tribe took them to court, and they pay no taxes to the city anymore and have a casino downtown. Now they want to expand. They went back on the original agreement and now the city of Duluth is left holding the bag.
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You are so lame on this topic Always. How is opening a casino in a town like GF taking away from native americans? You act like native americans invented gaming and have patents to it. Seems to me all anyone’s saying is that if gaming is opened up more in the state, some of us state residents prefer them to be operated based on STATE laws and regulations. We’d never let the State of Minnesota or some other state come in, buy land, remove the land from any ND regulations, put the land under the State of Minnesota, and then let them run it. So, since a tribal entity is a “state”, why should we do that for them? And…. If given a choice, I think I’ll take my “corrupt” state government (as you call it) over a tribal government to run such an entity every time. Just like I’d take it over Minnesota’s, South Dakota’s, and every other state’s government. You need to put YOUR racism and me-me aside and think about it from the standpoint of a prudent responsible citizen. Gaming is not something most citizens see as the most moral of businesses. We put up with them, but really wish they’d just go away. So, if we have to have one, we’d prefer it be run in a manner that will benefit ALL residents of this state. Not just a select few. And we expect there to be rules and regulations to insure just that.
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First of YOU are one of us. All residents in ND whether they live on a reservation or not are considered citizens of ND. However, it does not work both ways. So, when the State of ND gains, so do you. But it doesn’t work the other way around. Are we trying to put casino’s on the reservations to take away from you? No we aren’t. Yet “you” want to put them elsewhere so just “you” can benefit the most. You also forget that currently the gaming monies off the reservation go directly to helping the elderly, the disabled, and other non-profits that provide services to the general public. A casino would no doubt adversely affect these groups income. So, while you want your little group to benefit from gambling, most in this state want ALL to benefit. That’s not racist like “YOU” are trying to make this. It’s prudent and responsible. Hopefully someday you’ll be able to see thru your personal racism and realize everything is about you and that everyone owes you.
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Yes the law does allow tribes to purchase land off the reservation. BUT as typical in most of your posts you fail to tell the rest of the story. That being the putting of the land in “trust” status. Without that status the land is still state land (jurisdiction wise) and the tribe is just another property owner that must abide by all state laws. However, IF the State and Federal government approve, the land can be put into “trust” status. Trust status is what allows that land to be considered a part of the tribe’s reservation and is no longer under jurisdiction by the state. The tribe can buy all the land off the reservation they want. But they can’t put a casino on it until it’s in “trust” status. So, it’s not that the State is taking anything away here. You do not have that right now. You can put however many casinos you want on “your” land. But if you want to put it on someone elses land (land under the jurisdiction of the State of ND) you need their permission and you need to abide by their laws.
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alwayscorrect So your theory is that because the tribe was ripped off 100 years ago that it is OK for them to rip off everyone now? How far back do we go with this theory? I could easily find a place in history where every persons ancestor was ripped off by some government in someway. What about those people who’s ancestor was assaulted by some royal(very common a few hundred years ago) and had a child because of it. Do those royals owe them back child support??
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Travel through any reservation (where a casino exists). Still abject poverty…galore! Nearly 3rd world conditions in some spots. We all know that owning a casino is like a license to print money. Where is all the cash going?? Its sure not trickling down to those who need it most.
That said, we now want these same people (tribes) running casinos on non-tribal land?? I think not. Broke STATES should look at running their own casinos.
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Remember when Obama said don’t go to vegas and spend money… Guess what he meant to say just save your money until I can get the native americans to open a casino in your backyard.
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Alwayscorrect, please read the July 10th blog and it’s documents. Then tell me WHY we should allow these leaders to expand their reservations (trust land) beyond their current borders.
http://walkingsky.com/restless/rsblog.html#062011
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I don’t hit these links…if you have a point…make it.
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Rick: talking with Always is mildly amusing at first but wears thin quickly. He is not interested in facts. He made his tinfoil hat & he is happy to wear it.
Do not take his concerns seriously. If you want a semi rational discussion of Native affairs go with Tim
I disagree with him on many issues, but he is capable of caring on a coherent conversation
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alwayscorrect really believes he is alwayscorrect
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Indian casinos are allowed because they are on Rez land. Saying that just because a plot of land is Rez simply because a tribe owns it makes absolutely no sense.
My friend is an enrolled member of the Turtle Mountain Chippewa. He also owns a house in Fargo. Is his house deaf to Rez land?
Of course not.
If Native interests are allowed to build casinos outside of Rez land; then that option has to be open to everyone
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Rez land is different from commercial holdings. This is not rocket science.
The states that have allowed off Rez gambling (AZ was one) have regretted it. There is no tax advantage for he surrounding communities. It is a one way street.
Then again there is that pesky idea of fairness & race. I let you conduct what would otherwise be an illegal activity solely on the basis of race in renumeration for past wrongs? That is called reparations.
If you are willing to do that for Native Americans, what about the 11% of the population that can trace their ancestry back to slavery? Shouldn’t they get a piece of the pie as well?
Your arguments are hollow Always
Casinos were allowed on tribal lands because they were “sovereign.” As we have discussed many times before, the whole notion of Native American sovereignty is bankrupt.
If ND wants to allow gambling, that is their prerogative. To restrict it to one group of people is unacceptable
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Always: you did not answer my question: why the racial set asides and reparations? Why cannot an African American or Latino or Japanese group petition for a casino?
Again sovereignty. Indian Nations are sovereign like states. They are allowed to make their own rules within their own borders (to the extent their rules do not conflict with the Feds). North Dakota can legalize gambling across the board tomorrow and no one at the federal level would have a problem with it; Nevada and New Jersey are not special.
That said, the State of North Dakota cannot buy a few square acres outside MNPLS and call it part of North Dakota.
What the tribes want is just that, the ability to extend their sovereignty over lands that are not part of the Rez.
It simply does not make sense for a state to allow that. Why? What is in it for ND? or Grand Forks? or Fargo?
The tribes want to build casinos nearer to population centers. Why not reform those cesspools of hopelessness that are Indian lands into something people would want to visit?
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First off Always, I want to thank you for a well written and cogent argument.
“I posted earlier, that when the government made their deal with Native Americans the government granted certain rights and privileges to those Native American Governments…..in return for the land that the US Government was taking from the Native Americans.”
I need some documentation on what you are talking about. I need a link or a title to the law you are referencing.
Thanks
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As an aside Always. What we are talking about are reparations. Here is the definition:
rep·a·ra·tion [rep-uh-rey-shuhn]
noun
1.
the making of amends for wrong or injury done: reparation for an injustice.
The subject of reparations is a completely different topic that deserves explored. I am not necessarily against them. I just believe in calling it what it is. A special status not granted to anyone else on the basis of a past wrong.
It is legal. The US Government apologized and paid a monetary reparation to Japanese Americans who were detained in internment camps during WWII.
There is a precedent.
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We have been using taxpayers money to care for these tribes for a very long time now.
I think its time they just join society and drop the fake “Sovereign Nation” act.
The Tribes are only Sovereign nations when it comes to excluding others, they become full blown American citizens with a minority status when it comes to accepting welfare, education benefits, etc…
Which is it?
Are they their own nation or are they American citizens like the rest of us?
Its past time to choose.
If they are their own nation, draw the borders and enforce international laws.
If they want to visit our nation like the Canadians do, we can visit theirs etc…
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“Since 1990, the Indian gaming industry has made political contributions of nearly $58 million, with 70 percent of the money going to the Democratic Party and President Barack Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan research group. And the tribes also have been spending heavily on lobbying, more than $20 million in 2011 alone.”
One can only look at the rampant poverty that they complain about and say HMMMM.
Wonder how much of a step in the right direction that 20 million would have been towards housing and education for the members.
But then again, that probably would have helped raise them out of poverty status and made them not eligible for Govt handouts.
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Or… We could just let them have their land and their Sovereign nation status and stop interfering with what goes on in their “Country”.
Stop giving them welfare and benefits.
We dont treat Canadians that way and they are a Sovereign nation.
Indians should receive the same treatment Canadians do if they want the Sovereign nation tag.
Otherwise, they are giving up the Sovereign nation tag willingly and accepting Govt welfare etc and the designation of a standard US citizen.
Im not asking them to do something they dont want to do.
I’m just asking them to get off the fence and decide what they want to do and abide by that decision.
I’m good either way.
I’m just not fond of allowing people to cherrypick what laws they follow and what ones they dont based on what they want to consider themselves today.
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“Stop giving them welfare and benefits”
Like I said, when the agreements were drawn up and agreed to, that was the deal the US Government made.
The way I see it, the US Government made concessions to end the fighting, not unlike what occurs during the “peace talks” (for lack of a better term) after any military engagement.
The US Government agreed to certain conditions in order to end the hostilities. In consideration for not killing settlers and soldiers, the US Government entered into agreements. Apparently, among those thing conceded to the tribes was to allow a “Sovereign Nation” within the boundary’s of the United States.
Now, it appears, because the Native Americans have figured out a way to profit from this situation, you want to change the agreement.
Like I said, forego the agreements, gve them back their land, and you can move to Sierra Leone and be a diamond farmer.
Or, you can take the United States military and slaughter the rest of the Native Americans…which is kinda what was advocated by Andrew Jackson a hundred or so years ago.
You remember andy, he is on the twenty dollar bill you have in your pocket right now. That is the same as a Jewish person carrying around a German mark with Adolfs’ portrait on the face.
A deal is a deal. You don’t like it, tough noogies.
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Sorry, I meant to say
You remember andy, he is on the twenty dollar bill you have in your pocket right now.
For a Native American to carry that twenty dollar bill…. is the same as a Jewish person carrying around a German mark with Adolfs’ portrait on the face.
( but you are sharp, so you probably construed my meaning anyway)
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As an aside.
Probably over a year ago now, I was engaged in a civil and calm interaction on these blogs, (as I usually do) and I was confronted with a challenge.
Some blogger, I don’t remember who, posted that in order to gain a better understanding of the issue at the University of Screw the Sioux, (formerly my alma mater) people should read “Giants in the Earth” and “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.”
I did that, and I would like to thank the person that made the suggestion.
Now, I suggest you all read a book called “Neither Wolf nor Dog” by Kent Nerburn…can’t hurt, might help.
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I really don’t have much concern one way or other on the issue because I seldom gamble and when I do I do it the wrong way for casinos….I quit when I’m ahead. None the less I do have an observation.
A couple years ago when everyone was freaked out about the bottom dropping out of the economy I noticed how the casinos I drove by still had full or nearly full parking lots….Especially the casinos in the Upper Midwest. I never could figure out if all these Upper Midwest states were basically uneffected by much of it or if people actually thought they could hit it big so they’d suffer less.
Apparently the casino business is a good business to have even in a strugling economy……But at what cost to everyone else I wonder? I mean granted there are jobs both within the casino and from the diferent business that supports the casino business, but with so many losing money….I wonder if that ever really makes a casino worth while in tough economic times?
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It is called capitalism.
You take your money, invest in a business (in this case a casino) build the building and infrastructure…all on the CHANCE that when it is in operation it will make you money, make you wealthy.
Of course, in the Obama nation, the State would run the business.
If the business is successful, the State takes the money and distributes it to their cronies.
If the business fails, all the people in the State have to pay, but the “elected” officials keep their job.
Welcome to the third world.
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You totally missed my point, but then again…..Thats your fort’e. I was just making an observation that in hard times when every other sector of business saw people tightening up their spending it appeared that casinos were still going strong as ever. I don’t know if that means there’s a lot of people who were’nt affected by the tight economy and didn’t fear frivolous spending or if a lot of those people were there with some concept they’d be bringing home the bacon in trying times.
When it comes to gambling and casinos you either spend the time learning the games that have good enough odds so you can make educated decisions or you hope for that lucky strike…..Most fall in the second catagory even though some might think they’re in the first….And that’s the real magic of casinos….taking money from those with unrealistic beliefs. If not for the unrealistic beliefs casinos wouldn’t be the cash cow they are.
I have nothing against casinos or gambling in general….I do so myself, but generally I prefer to keep it personal with actual poker games and the over all best odds for gambling. But I just don’t know if casinos really do that much for a community in general unless you have it a major industry like in NV.
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Instead of focusing on casinos, attention should be on what’s going on with the children.
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I agree…..Unfortunately I guess we’re not supposed to mention it because the Herald has three related articles surrently, but not one of them have a comment board. I guess we might say something not too pleasant about a community that allows such outrages to occure without doing all they can to fix the huge shortfalls. Wouldn’t want to anger the people responsible for that now would we?
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Stop the federal money that flows into reservations. It is time for us to stop treating Native Americans differently.
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It’s not quite that simple….And I’m not too sure what can be done because of legal mandates from treaties in the first place.
Look at the states where Native Americans have done fairly well like OK and they generally have done so because they not only learned to acclumate to things like farming in the beginning, but learned to acculmate to other fields of opportunity which basically allowed them to expand away from the set reservations. I’ve driven through reservation lands in OK and it generally seems like thriving communities like anywhere else.
There’s no simple solutiong fo allowing them to remain withing thier own culture yet thrive in areas up here. Most reservations are removed from areas where they could draw other business. Even casino’s can only thrive if they’re close enough to communities willing to spend up to an hour on the road to get to them.
So what would replace the money going to the reservations? Probably nothing. People would have to move to cities where they would either find work or have the same big problems, but then what? If the reservations go then essentially so would the different tribes eventually. Even though the European decendants here are all over the board so we really don’t have a lot of connection to each other…..We generally still say “I’m French, Irish, Norske, Swede, German, and such which still exist someplace with those major tribes that we can point to as being decendants of…..If the reservations go, then eventually the people who were the original occupants might not have anywhere to point to as where their people are…….Like I said…Not a simple problem
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Yeah…throw out all the agreements and treaties.
Haven’t the white people suffered enough?
Yikes.
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On the SL reservation their leadership follows your mantra. They actually do Screw the Sioux at the expense of the taxpayers. I’m against that…but you can keep playing cowboys and indians alwayscorrect.
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