LLOYD OMDAHL: Looking for the causes of polarization
July 8, 2012 at 4:30 pm in Grand Forks Herald
We are in the current policymaking mess because the polarized public is being heard, and this polarization is being reflected by our leaders. Stated in classic Pogo wisdom: “We have met the enemy, and they is us.” Continue Reading
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Your blame the others argument is exactly what this opinion is all about. The Democrats are no more innocent in partisan politics than the Republicans. I could say the exact same thing about the Democrats they are unwilling to make real compromise. The truth is we are all responsible for the gridlock in government.
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Not at all because that is what Obama wanted from the start of this issue. What the Republican want is spending cuts to pay for it, something Obama is not willing to compromise on. Obama has failed again and again to show leadership on issues.
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hmm that is NOT what Obama said himself on TV today. I guess you know better what Obama thinks and means than he does.
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Glen, I am not sure sure Republicans are as guilty Democrats??? Harry Reid, the Senate obstructionist has not allowed allowed a budget vote to come to the floor in three years!! Illegal and irresponsible on his part!
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“The democrats are willing to compromise” meaning “we are willing to accept you on our side”. That contention is so bizarre it’s actually hilarious.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I listen very little to talk radio, but enough of both left leaning and right leaning to hear what they are thinking. Funny thing is… they say the exact same thing. Our side isn’t sticking to their guns. All we ever do is compromise and let are opponents walk all over us. It is really quite comical.
So you look at it from your own personal bias. From realist’s point of view, he is standing in the middle of the road and it is all the GOPs fault. Others believe the “middle of the road” is somewhere else.
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How much have Lloyd and his fellow media mavens contributed to the polarization?
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To extend that, how much is Lloyd and his generation and the generation that followed responsible for pillaging the coffers of future generations to pay for their instant gratification? I personally hold the ‘Greatest Generation’ and their ‘Offspring’ responsible for the current state of our nation.
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I had to laugh at the blame game comments here. Then, Maverick hits a home run. You and I are to blame. My cousin in Arizona in the $1.2 million house (now worth $400,000). My brother driving the Cadillac Escalade. realist would blame the banks and Wall Street. WE did this to our children. WE did this. Until we come clean, there’s no fixing it.
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I agree. People hate looking in anything other than a fun house mirror.
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Could be your grandmother is part of Wall Street.
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Sorry I haven’t had much office time this week and just caught your comment. What precipitated that statement is the polarization within my own family. To the point that I deleted my facebook account. We have given lip service to negative adds and negativity in the past, but this year it is really hitting me..
I am at the point where I want answers. I want people held accountable. I want people who are going to tell me what in the flipping “insert 4 letter word here” they are going to do to fix this god awful mess. I don’t care what the letter is behind their name. I’m an independent. Stop with the rhetoric, stop with the finger pointing. Stop with the used car salesman pitches. Fire your flipping groomers, quit taking hand outs from the large PAC organizations and selling your soul to the highest bidder. Do what is right for America, do what is right and fix the damn issues.
That is all..
gets off soapbox.
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That’s about right, but one thing the article isn’t pointing out nor the other comments here is that we have had for some time only the best government that money can buy. As long as our government is bought and paid for by all this special interest money across the board we’ll never get much of a government “For the people.”
I know I go back and forth with those on the right, but really when you come down to it I think we’re all being played regardless what sid you’re on. As long as they can continue to shake things up on the media airwaves so that more people accept opinion as valid news than the actual news…..They can continue to stick it to all of us because we’re too busy picking sides and blaming the side we’re not on……
I’ve said it before…If everyone could at least take a few week break from all pundits….We might actually be able to focus better on the problems and insist on real changes instead of finger pointing……Otherwise….The money is always going to speak loudest….And I have no idea how the hell we can ever expect to fix that….There’s ways to do it, but to actually find people willing to break away from it…..Not likely…
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If you think I’m wrong…Tell me why…
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This is the great lie of dichotomy (http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/episode-874-thoughts-from-jack-on-the-great-lie-of-dichotomy, Jack Spirko, 4/5/2012) that has been fed to us by the two major political parties and their media minions finally coming to fruition. And now Lloyd’s upset at what he sees after he’s been a part of the machine that has fed us the lie for so long. This is what the people at the top of both parties have striven for for years; a divide and conquer strategy that keeps average Americans pitted against their neighbor in an us vs. them, left/right, Republican/Democrat dichotomy. We’ve been told that there are only two worldviews to have and that the opposite side is your enemy. That there is only candidates from the two major parties to vote for, and only ideas from the two major parties to consider. In fact the Republicans and the Democrats are just two wings of the Statist Party, both seeking to increase the power of the state and reduce the liberty of the individual. There will be no Great Man that will come along and solve this. Whether you are a disciple of Barack Obama, Mitt Romney, or Ron Paul, none will be either willing or able to make any significant improvements and steer us back out of the ditch that both parties have put us in. The only way for us to fix this problem is to grow up and take responsibility for ourselves and our actions, build local community, and ignore the politicians until they become irrelevant. Take away the market for welfare, and the welfare provider becomes powerless. Take away the need for foreign meddling and interventionism, and the military industrial complex goes broke and implodes. The internet has made it very easy to find out that the people on the other side of the world, in China and Iran for example, are pretty much like us, peaceable and reasonable. It’s the leaders, ours and theirs, who keep rattling the sabers, using fear to keep their own people under control by using the foreign boogeyman as a reason to further erode freedoms at home. It’s time for us to make the people in Washington DC irrelevant, and tell the statists to take a hike.
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You’re talking Marx ,right? Good job!
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Having never read Marx, I can’t say one way or another. However, Marx and Engels’ philosophies lead to several of the most oppressive statist systems that we have yet known on this planet, and since I am for the sovereignty of the individual over the state, then I’d guess that I am not talking Marx. I have to say that I will never read Marx in the future as well for it would be a complete waste of my time, since millions of ruined lives have already proven their philosophy is severely flawed. One other thing, I agree with you that Wall Street, possibly the original ground zero for crony capitalism, is a big part of the problems we face in this country, and possibly the world. But there is a distinction between a truly free market and its adherents, and those that are in bed with our elected officials and misleading people such as yourself that this is somehow true unfettered capitalism.
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I should have said “elected officials ‘that mislead’ people such as youself. . . .
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It’s pretty obvious what great destructive economist you hold as having the greatest solution……He was dead wrong…Unless you’re for the masses being in servitude to the learders of capitalism. This idea of economics without consideration for the well being of the masses is a great idea…As long as you are among those at the top of the food chain.
Since Reagan we’ve seen many of the fail safes that had been put in after the so called “Great Depression” get removed and the results is what we have today with so few at the top holding so much of the wealth while the rest keeps struggling to get what remains of the left overs. We were once a proud country that made products that the whole world deemed high quality. We had an actual working class that could live a comfortable life, but now we don’t reall make a lot anymore because we gave that job to China, and the working class finds fewer and fewer jobs available….
This top heavy economy can’t continue to sustain itself. Like other great empires I think America is on the verge of toppling because of uncontrolled greed at the top. Historically that spells the beginning of the end of great societies. Unfortunately I really don’t see any way out of it without a total collapse of the economy once again and people finally waking up to the fact that you can’t have pure capitalism without regulations because greed will always take over everything….
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Re tundrabeast: I’m not sure who you are directing your comment to but would you be referring to Milton Friedman who said this? “The world runs on individuals pursuing their self interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a, from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way.”
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Tundra, have you read Marx?
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Of course it’s that dictator builder Friedman……A loathsome piece of crap if ever there was one….If he was alive I’d hope someone would slowly execute him for all the misery he helped create in the world…..Your philosophy sounded like it was his…
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No I haven’t read Marx, but I have a general idea of his philosophy. I know that regardless what some want to think about communist Russia that it wasn’t true Marxism….Or at least it became a bastardized version of it.
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Re spearman’s :”You need to get up to speed & read Marx like all academics around the world do. Western imperialism is the actual cause of the deaths you refer to because of the desire of capitalism to prevent Marxism from becoming dominant. Capitalism caused the death of 35 million Russians in WW ll yet they defeated extreme capitalism aka Fascism.”
Well, I don’t want to get into an endless discussion about how you are mistaken that Fascism was a “free market”, but I will agree with you that capitalism, as in crony capitalism, has certainly killed many people over the centuries, and I won’t attempt to dispute your numbers. I highly doubt that Dwight Eisenhower was so astute as to recognize the danger in the USA of a budding military industrial complex. This is something he witnessed firsthand that had already been going on for centuries in European nations; heck, even the Roman Republic had type of military industrial complex. I suppose I could be like all other “academics around the world” and bone up on my Marx, but why waste time on a failed philosophy and naval gazing? I think it’s time to move on past governments and organized religions as instruments of control over the individual. I suppose academics have more time to waste studying failed theories since they generally have their slave labor, the student teacher, do the actual teaching for them now days. As a side note, I had read the ‘Little Black Book of Communism’ back in 1999 when it came out, written by quite a few European academics that had lived through the failure, and they claim that Communism killed about 94 million people since it first claimed a nation in 1917, or about 1.15 million souls a year. Quite a record of accomplishment, don’t you think?
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You speak badly of communism to Spearman and you’ll likely have a battle on your hands. I’d suggest we all save our breath.
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Yes your right Alvin, the topic of this discussion, correct me if I am wrong, is how didAmerican discourse become so polarized and what can we do to reduce the contention? I’ve seen youtry to address this a number of times on these discussion boards, so what is your opinion of Mr. Omdahl’s opinion piece?
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What a novel idea, staying on the subject three days after the article is published. First of all, I liked much of what you said, but don’t believe that votes are for sale as much as other people believe. As far as Mr. Omdahl’s piece, I thought it was a calm, controlled tongue lashing that we all richly deserve. I don’t blame the media for our general meanness and rudeness. We can each take different levels of ownership of our lack of civility. I have my issues with the media’s general disinterest with everything except what floats to the top, but that’s a different issue. Thanks for asking.
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@Tundra, did you read the article? You are doing it, always blaming the other guy. This is what has to stop if we are to fix it.
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Now 7 good Germans.
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See Paul Krugman’s GFH art. today on the .01% oligarchy
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We are in the current policymaking mess because the polarized public is being heard, and this polarization is being reflected by our leaders. Stated in classic Pogo wisdom: “We have met the enemy, and they is us.”
I don’t think the first sentence could be any more inaccurate; nor, the second, more accurate.
The polarized public is NOT “the problem”. It’s a reflection of the problem. That’s it. That’s all. We – the collective ‘we’ that is the public, don’t know what to do since we’ve stopped putting our ‘leaders’ up on pedestals and started seeing them and their works for what they are – as fallible as anyone or anything else. Not to mention the fact that ‘doing right’ doesn’t matter as much as who’s got the money to control whatever it is THEY want to do – right, wrong or indifferent. The illusions we’ve been groomed to buy into are breaking down. Hence, ‘we’ dig our heels in deeper to whatever convictions we think will protect us – right, wrong, or indifferent. Fertile ground for zealots, opportunists, and worse. It’s happened before. Not that long ago.
BUT…this is all nothing new under the sun. Will we do better this time? Not if we try to use the same old solutions. Trouble is, it’s going to take a lot to take on those who control the money and have the power that – like it or not- dictates much of our daily lives. How that will happen, I’m not sure. It’s far more complicated and risky than most want to admit or acknowledge – least of which mainstream media. Which, as we’ve just seen, wants to ‘blame’ the public who, pretty much from day one, have been groomed to be followers. Not leaders or critical thinkers.
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I hate the bipartisanship Harry Reed has demonstrated the last 3.5 years. Harry Reed had so little confidence in his Democratic senators that he has not allowed a budget to come before the senate. Harry reed obstructionist senate leader does not vote a budget for 3 years! The result “(CBS News) The National Debt has now increased more during President Obama’s three years and two months in office than it did during 8 years of the George W. Bush presidency.
The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency. It has now gone up $4.939 trillion since President Obama took office.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/
These are the unfortunate results when you neglect your constitutionial responsibility of voting on a budget! We working Americans live with a budget, it is time for the Senate to spend what we can afford. I find this deficit spending unacceptable and hold Democrats primarily responsible!
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A family budget is very different than the federal budget. They aren’t run the same way. What they do have in common is that they can make mortgages. What if families couldn’t borrow for their housing needs for 30 yrs. Cities have to pay for infrastructure over 30 yr. periods too.
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It’s pretty laughable that excess spending of a trillion dollars or more per year could have the word budget anywhere in association with it anyway. Funnier yet, the democrats are proud of this record.
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You know what is really sad.. That either party is proud of those records. The country has increased the national debt by over 9 Trillion dollars in the last 12 years.
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Mav, 5 trillion in less than 1 term of President Obama, it is hard to admit we can run up this MUCH dept no matter our party affiliation!
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I agree, but I personally don’t blame one party or the other.. I blame both.. They have both had their hands in the cookie jar, they both have been feeding money to their ‘pet’ projects.
We need people in Washington that are in it for the Country and its Citizens, not their own pocket book. Drastic measures are going to have to be made whether people like it or not. Taxes are going to have to get raised, budgets are going to have to be slashed, Loop holes HAVE to be closed.
People that are hiding money in the Camens need to be held accountable and made to pay into system. This post can get voted down all people want.. But it isn’t going to change the economic truth that we are spending more than we take in, and that there are crooks fleecing our country for their own financial gain.
It is time to quit mortgaging America on the backs of its children.
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The left has done nothing but applaud Obamacare, the signature program of President Obama the Profligate, which by CBO numbers is an admitted massive deficit builder. It’s mind boggling that this man has any support left but his ladogs just keep lapping it up and shouting hurrah. Lloyd Omdahl has to look for causes of polarization, really.
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I guess when the t’s hold a gun to his head and say our way or the highway then he’s supposed to just cave in and let the nasty game go forward. Here’s a novel idea…How about the GOP actually getting to work to negotiate instead of just insisting everything has to go their way or no way? I guess that’s somehow akin to giving in to the Dems if you try to find ways to work on the differences huh? What a lot of foolishness…….And it’s going to cost them….Like Burg for voting for the pary instead of ND….It’s going to cost them all for doing that.
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What? Until Senator Brown was elected he had 60 Democrat Senators and after Browns election he had 59 Democrat Senators. It takes 51 Senators to approve a final budget thanks to the Budget Recincialiation Act of 1990. Tundra did Prince Harry fear his fellow Democrats straying that much and would not a bipartisan budget be good? You Democrats accuse Republicans of obstruction but Harry Reid will not even allow a budget vote!
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I was just getting ready to once again jab right back, but what the hell….This is exactly what the article is about….We need to stop this damn nonesense and look at the real problems….Hell…DEo you really like the politions on your side? I’m not all that crazy for the ones on my side, but I just keep hoping they’ll make positive changes for all of us. That’s what we all should be doing and stop playing this foolish game of division. I mean look at how ineffective they have become because we keep playing into their damn game of division….Enough already….The hell with this your side my side crap….OUR SIDE IS FAILING ALL OF US PERIOD…..And unless we recognize it and stop letting the wealth barrons control everything…We’re all going to lose…
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The government has been making changes under the guise of “positive changes for all of us” since FDR and where we’re at today is the result of it. The mistaken idea of the goverment doing things “for you” is in reality the government doing things “to you”.
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That’s pretty vague…..With that philosophy then the only function that should reamin is for them to enact measures to dissolve government since all they do is against us instead of being what they’re supposed to be….Trusted servants to the American people. They’re supposed to be looking for balances that doesn’t just assure that commerece is the only concern, but that everything we do as a united community is takens into consideration so that we don’t have such a hierarchy that allows one class to take unfair advantage over other classes. Our history has those lessons from the KY & PA coal miners to sweat shops where people were little more than indentured servants….As a country we worked hard to break away from that and if we’re not careful we will return to it……
As for the woes of the New Deal…..It looked like we actually did damn well in America eith some of the most productive years ever and a strong middle class. Since we’ve taken away many of the safeguards from the New Deal we’ve been sinking further and further away from real progress for the middle class.
None the less…..If what you want is a goveronment that only looks out for the wealth barrons, then good luck to you because historically that’s never been good for the masses. I prefer one that seeks balance for all of us….As long as there’s so damn much money in play that’s pretty tough to achieve
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There really isn’t anything vague about history. The supposed well intentioned anti-poverty programs have demonstably only increased poverty, and the fruits of the labor of workers and business people have been squandered by incompetent government bureacrats. The government has reached the point where regulation is enacted for regulations sake in an effort to sqeeze every last dime possible out of the process to further entrench the process. We exist as a means to finance the bloated government employment program of government employees whos function is none other than to make more regulation and facilitate nothing.
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Damn….There’s common ground truth in what you say…..And that’s what I mean….We can see the problems much better when we don’t just look at it as it’s one sides fault or the other sides. I can agree to an extent, but it’s something we’ve all let get out of hand because we all keep buying the horse dung that they need to do things this way or that when it’s so often the Washington game they’re playing with each other and the special interest all the way around.
Oh hell…I’m already getting election time fatigue and it’s still a few months away. It’s really easy to get cranky around election time….
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Beast I reread your post about ready to pounce on my post. Please do!! Please! What does your deficit thinking threat mean??? Nothing intellectually, right!! I beg your response!!!!If you act so arrogantly confident, you should FEEL free to express your views!!! My response is waiting!!
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Actually…..It’s just not all that important to me to get into it…..I tire of just going back and forth without really accomplishing much more than ill feelings……..Hell…..If you and I as two strangers on a comment board can’t find it in ourselves to find common ground…Then isn’t that the point about what’s going on in the country?
This isn’t a civil war…It’s not this right American against this wrong American, but the way we go about some of these issues you’d think we’re divided just like the Yanks and the Rebels…..Ask yourself….Why is that? Do you really feel like there’s some Americans who aren’t part of this country because of idealogy? Remember after 9/11 when for the first time in a long time we felt like we were the United States of America? How we were in it together as one people? We’ve lost that, and I submit it has a lot to do with the packaging of the whole system. As long as they can get us to fight each other…They can keep doing what they’re doing and basically not being the public servants they’re supposed to be….
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This is pretty much what I said in my first post, but you and spearman had to go through a litany of ad hominem attacks, name calling, and dictator name-dropping before you came to this conclusion. But your still hung up on taking sides. Stop drinking the government Kool-Aid buddy, and expand your reading material.
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Tundra, what is your point? Really?? BIPARTISANSHIP IS NOT THAT SCARRY to most Americans! To a get bipartisan budget, your obstructionist hero, Harry, has to allow a vote on a budget. This article is about polarization, what better way than to have Republicans and some independent minded Democrats come together to pass a budget that balances. We can not afford President O’s nearly 5 trillion debt increase in less than one term. I know if Reed allowed the senate senate to fullfill its constitutional duty, Democrats and Republicans would have said “NO” to President Obama and Mr Reed’s spending addiction! As a result Reed only allows votes on continuing budget resolutions to keep government solvent and big spending for their socialist agenda!! Debt we can not afford!!!
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