Farmers’ safety net is now a money bag
July 8, 2012 at 1:00 am in Grand Forks Herald
One of the largest farm real estate booms in decades could be getting a boost from an unsuspecting player: the U.S. taxpayer. The government foots the bill for a large chunk of the nation’s enormous crop insurance program, which essentially guarantees farmers a profit. Continue Reading
Farming these days just is not the way it was 50 to 75 years ago when you had families in just about every quarter of land with anywhere from 6 to 12 children in each family. Now it has become individuals with enormous sums of money buying up the land and farming it, or groups of rich people (lawyers and/or doctors for instance) who band together and buy thousands and thousands of acres for investment purposes. These are the ‘farmers’ who are benefiting from these farm subsidies. You can bet these people have lobbyists in D.C.
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Before I start…the word farmer isn’t really accurate anymore. They don’t make many decisions like their grandparents did-they’re told by an agronomist what to use and when, they’re told how to receive all possible payments, and they hop in tractors that drive themselves..so how about ‘Input and Output Managers’?
I agree that there are some investment ‘non-farmers’ that buy up big chunks of land to farm but really THIS problem too goes back to the farm bill in the 80s when low interest rates were installed to ‘make’ most farms fail and then forgive the farms that made it the longest..that’s where these huge farms came from that now Manage Inputs and Outputs on 10-20 former family farms. I see a lot of family farms, but with this money they are able to pull in..they’re able to keep buying.
It’s great that this is being exposed to the public, I’ve been calling for a 5 year extreme drought to end these kind of payments. I think it would take a couple years of failed crops (but farmers still getting their top dollars) before the public determines who will be in office to write the next bill.
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And people complain about ACS employees collecting unemployment? Which by the way is not coming out of their tax dollars.
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Some of us are opposed to both.
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Jack,
While normal unemployment insurance is paid by taxes that businesses pay on their payroll, all of the unemployment insurance extensions (beyond 13 weeks I believe) are federally funded programs that are paid for (ultimately) by the taxpayers. Also, companies pay based on their past experience for unemployment. Businesses that have employees that use unemployment assistance will end up paying higher rates, so back to your comment, ACSC will end up paying for the benefits for the workers that are locked-out. An interesting little tidbit.
As for the farmers, they used to be entrepeneurs, the definition of this is one who builds capital through risk and initiative. Just like the big banks (too big too fail), the government has stepped in to take all of the risk. Just like the big banks…… when the government seperates risk from reward, this is neither good for the government (us) or for the group that should be participating in the risk/reward activity (banks or farmers).
However, it is also a very expensive business to get into. I’d like to take my free $10,000 and get a part of this reward with little-to-no risk….. but to play this game, I really need $1,000,000 or more. The existing farmers (especially big farmers) are those most able to play. As for me….. I’d rather make an honest living.
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You’ll notice Dalrymple isn’t running on an ag subsidy platform.
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I wonder how many millions he has taken in from the taxpayers over the years in crop payments?
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IIRC, last year Dalrymple Farms scored $2.5 million.
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I suppose that makes him a fiscally conservative Republican watching over the taxpayers dollars. Watching them fill his bank accounts. The real farm bill lobbyists work for Cargill, ConAgra, Monsanto, et al. As if the Republicans would support something for the average farmer. Though they do protect that socialist outfit called American Cyrstal Sugar. For all those who will give me negs for this ACS is a perfect example of socialism.
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Are there any average farmers anymore?
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A few Gene.. My cousins run one.. Was my grandfathers farm.
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It’s reassuring knowing my tax dollars are indirectly going to bust unions….Who carry’s water for these fat cats….?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Democrat Congressman Colin Peterson of the 7th District.
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there is enough food to feed everyone…so don’t use that one. also, industrial ag isn’t the best system to feed the world..but it’s the best system to create rich farmers and rich ag companies.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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And where do you think the food comes from Pro?
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‘food’ comes out of the system..it’s just embarrassing that us wealthy and developed countries eat and produce such crappy ‘food’
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People demand convenience,which requires more processing. It isn’t that the raw product produced by the farmers is of poor quality.
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Pro…..Don’t blame the farmers. Blame the food manufacturers and the consumers for the quality of our food. Some people take the time to cook a good meal every night but others eat out of the freezer section at the grocery store.
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I agree TJ, it is definitely up the individual in the end to make the best decision about food quality and quantity. And I’m not blaming the farmers..they are part of a much bigger system..it’s up to us to voice our opinions to our elected officials and make it a better system
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One of the problems in Africa, is the political problems. Certain factions/tribes/governments and other groups are trying to control the countries.
You cannot have a society without stability. If you want a currency, commerce and such, you need a sound political structure.
When you have a destabilized portion of a continent that has natural resources (diamonds, etc.), you are going to have groups (including foreign corporations) fighting for control for that resource.
A destabilized country or area is not going to have a food distribution network, thus contributing to starvation.
There can be food for an area (domestic or imports), but a destabilized area can prevent the food from being sold, purchased and/or transported to the people that need that food.
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In 2002 Zimbabwe and Tanzania rejected US aid for their starving population because the food aid was genetically modified. The food aid was free but these countries preferred starvation. Figure that one out.
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“What their bodies are used to taking in” they were starving. In other words they weren’t used to taking much of anything in.
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Eligiblity for farm subsidies is determined by crop not by income or poverty standards. The more they plant the bigger the check…so in the end the large farms and agribusinesses receive the largest subsidies.
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The problem with this program is like any other program that is designed to try and cover a multitude of different situations. Unfortunately, there are large farms in our area that have realized they can play the insurance game and use the system. As a proud farmer, I can say that our farm prides itself on producing the best crop we can year in and year out, and the insurance is there for exactly what it should be, insurance. A drought is not going to be good for anyone as food prices will increase. What is needed is a system of checks and balances to find these farms that year in and year out continually collect while others in the area do not. A large operator near us burned his corn stubble off last fall and the ground was litterally yellow with whole cobbs. The amount of product left in the field was rediculous. Operations like this are not good for agriculture.
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In North Dakota, I think it is high time for the legislature to abandon the property tax exemption for farmers farmsteads.
I know in the past, urban legislators have pondered this in the legislature. So it is probably up to the urban population in the state to demand this.
IMHO, exempting farmsteads from property taxes is a subsidy. The local schools need the revenue, as well as other local government entities.
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Profits for the farmers, profits for the insurance companies, and a huge bill for average joe
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So, someone finally asked how “Farmers who have claimed losses for the past 10 years on their taxes are buying new personal vehicles and rennovating their homes.
About time.
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You guys forgot wintering in Arizona playing golf.
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Why is that taxpayer funded crop insurance is good republican politics — but taxpayer funded human health care is a socialist plot?
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Those on the left like to claim this is republican politics, but the framework for the current system was set up by the Federal Crop Insurance Reform act of 1994. What a surprise, Bill Clinton was president then. If you want to lay the blame on someone it would have to be the democrats then wouldn’t it. Couldn’t we call it another democrat giveaway to get votes?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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…but if it wasn’t “good republican politics” why aren’t the GOP trying to kill it off like the ACA? I think we both know the answer!
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Curious how the republicans are to blame for bad policy enacted by the democrats simply because the don’t or didn’t have enough votes to kill it. The logic of that escapes me but I’m sure it makes perfect sense to any democrat.
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They don’t have the votes to kill off the ACA, but they are sure trying. Logic has nothing to do with it. It’s all about pandering and hypocrisy (after all, the ACA was a good republican plan until Obama adopted it).
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Republicans at this point don’t have enough votes to kill off any previously passed socialist legislation. Any vote they may take in the House is purely symbolic. The ACA is a seperate issue from the farm bill and crop insurance issue. ACA was a Romney plan but not a republican plan as many times in the past Romney has born no resemblence to a republican. He has been one of those that you on the left like to hold up as the ideal republican because he will come over to your side as needed without the expectation of reciprosity. I’ve never accused you of using logic, where do you get that?
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Not a republican plan — you must be joking! The Heritage Foundation (a conservative think tank) was all for it until Obama adopted it — but now they are suddenly trying to spin their way out of a damning paper trail of evidence. Not that evidence (or logic) ever matters to rigid ideologs — it’s defending the faith that counts eh?
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So some supposed conservative think tank speaks for all republicans, I think not. Does Al Sharpton or the Congressional Black Caucus speak for all democrats? Sorry, I guess they do.
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yes we do know the answer.
Because we have a Democrat in the office of President that would Veto any action to kill a bill that was set in motion by his Democrat party.
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A well-to-do farmer friend of mine told me before the last election that he was going to vote for Obama because “the republicans didn’t have much to offer the farmer”. I know that to be the mindset of many well off farmers in the area where I grew up. They developed that mindset because the democrat party is the party of the perpetual handout.
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I understand the Farmers need a saftey net for years when it is bad. Why can’t they pay some back on the good years?
Kind of like unemployment insurance for themselves. Put some away when times are good so when times go bad you do not have to rely on somebody else to make your payments.
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The smart farmers do set money aside for bad years, but bad crops can’t always be overcome with how expenses are now. In a way it is paid back in good years, it is through income taxes!! Every year money is paid into crop insurance, it is expensive, must be paid in good and bad years, yet may only collect once in 12 years on average, often the year a farmer collects it is still less than the farmer paid into over the years they had no disaster. (just like auto insurance) Insurance companies would not want to be in it if not for the government due to the high risk. Often the government ends up bailing out insurance companies after a hurricane, earthquake or a major flood. All Insurance is, is the ability to get by to the next year, hope for it to be better, If you think farmers should be denied any income or form of profit, there would not be any in the business, what is the point of working for nothing? The point of working is to earn money. If you think farming is such a good income work, why don’t you try it??
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seems few here commenting are farmers, the 11 that did thumbs down don’t know much about ag.
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Probably things should be changed with the farm program but they are minor players when it comes to the federal trough. For instance:
Exon Mobile with ~ 19 billion in profit received a 156 M rebate for energy research,
Bank of America-4.4 B profit, 1 T bailout and a 1.9 B tax refund, Citigroup 4B profit, no taxes paid and a 2.5 T bailout. And then we have Willard Romney who has money stashed in the Caymans, Bermuda, and in Swiss banks to avoid US tax. He set up a shell account in Bermuda in hia wife’s name to avoid disclosure. The 100,000 question is not why these people do this but why we put up with it????
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I’m willing to be a minor-minor player. I am only asking for $1M per year in subsidy. When you think about it, this is much less than the farm program and much much less than what the banks are getting. In fact, to show how much I support deficit reduction, I’m willing to reduce my “middle-class Mike” subsidy by 50%. I’ll settle for a cool $500k per year.
Who is going to champion that bill in the legislature?
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With a campaign contribution to Obama anything is possible and I think you could pick your democrat.
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Obama is the one allowing the oil companies to have their big cash cow.
And Obama could very easily take on the tax code.
Romney isnt doing anything illegal.
If its legal to do, you have no basis for your complaint.
I bet if someone handed you 100 million dollars you would hire a tax attorney to protect as much of your money as possible too.
Maybe if Americas wasnt so anti-business people would leave their money here.
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True-what Willard is doing is probably not illegal but it is slimy and a little disingenuous to proclaim to love this country and then hide your money overseas so as not to pay your fair share to the country’s economy. Oh wait–I have to rethink that–there is a better indication of his love of country–he wears that stupid required politician’s flag pin in his lapel. Only politician who doesn’t wear it 24/7 is John McCain, who endured years of torture for his country.
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When did slimy start bothering democrats? I thought it was a requirement for membership in the democrat party.
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So is Trolling your primary hobby then? What’s you next incarnation to these boards going to be? “Super Smart?” Such foolishness….
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Guess you couldn’t respond to the actual words I wrote so you resorted to the kindergarten tactic of “Boo Hoo, so are you.”
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You folks take similar pot shots at republicans all the time but when I turn the tables it’s trolling and open season for personal attacks from tundrabeast and Sandy Martinson. Sorry I’m not going to stoop to your level and retaliate.
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Pot shots is one thing, but only doing sucker punches without real debate is another…..If you are also serious about debating issues then you’re not trolling….
There’s one person who keeps popping up under new identities doing basically the same trolling game, and then disappears until he’s a new character again….Like “The Brain” maybe…
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Sorry, that doesn’t fly. This topic is about farm subsidies, not Mitt Romney’s investments. If Sandy Martinson wants to take pot shots about how slimy she thinks Mitt Romney is for making legal investments why doesn’t she go to a topic about Mitt Romney. You ignore that and come with your personal attacks about me. This topic isn’t about me either.
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Stick to the topic, please, and quit with the personal attacks, folks. Nobody wants the thread shut down.
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The problem I have with crop insurance, is that some farmers collect it repeatedly on land that was not meant to be farmed.
Some land developed (by glaciers, etc.) naturally was not meant to be farmed. It was only suitable for haying, pasture, etc.
The old timers new this and put cattle on that land. In recent years, I have seen farmers plow up marginal land to get subsidies (wheat payment, crop insurance, etc.) on this marginal land that is not able to produce a crop.
Putting in a crop in marginal land that has the wrong soil type, erodable (floods most springs, etc.) and getting an insurance check is plain wrong. The best land should be farmed and a real look at using the marginal land for other purposes (cattle grazing, haying, etc.) should be looked at.
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bad cropping ground, that’s what CRP is for. Alot was taken out the past few years, it should be put back in, I’ve seen some of those fields, they look horrible. Someone forgot why they put it in CRP in the first place it seems or the son didn’t listen to their dad as to why it was in CRP in first place.
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There has been a lot of productive land put in CRP as well. The reason a lot of it was put in was low grain prices and aging farmers that were ready to retire that could make more on CRP payments than renting to their neighbors. The CRP program was the final death knell of many small towns in a wide strip along highway 59 down to about Elbow Lake.
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Sorry…You’re not the one I thought your were…I’ve only seen your jabs and hadn’t actually seen you do have more than that out here….Mistaken identity….I look forward to debating on topics I’m more interested in…I’m interested in this…Just not to a great extent…
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