LLOYD OMDAHL: More grief coming for higher ed board
July 1, 2012 at 4:30 pm in Grand Forks Herald
After considering all options, the eight-member board system in North Dakota looks like the best possible vehicle for responsible nonpolitical management of the 11 public institutions of higher learning. Continue Reading
“Another accusation relates to the reckless granting of degrees at Dickinson State University. This was a failure on the part of the staff, not the board itself. ”
NOT ONE PERSON has been arrested for conspiracy to defraud; or for conspiracy to falsify Government documents and records.
WHEN is the Board going to CLEAN HOUSE in the West End?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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The FIRST comment on this thread is “awaiting mod eration” so you’ll never see it.
The board has COMPLETELY failed to clean house at the Charmin Diploma Factory.
The current board is a Do-Nothing outfit that refuses to take appropriate action; preferring to let things go in the hopes that everyone will forget there ever was a problem. Do-Nothing Dalrymple must be mighty proud of them.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I found out some time ago that mentioning that western town will go to “Awaiting” right away….Never could figure that one out……Looks like you too rebsubmitted and ended up with both getting in…..I too wasn’t used to them being on the ball and have had the same thing happen a couple times now…
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Speaking of passing legislation that was none of their business, does anyone here know if the ND Supreme Court is going to pick up on that subject and make a ruling? I thought it was delayed until after the summer election.
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Recall Uncle Al. It does a body good
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I don’t want to see that line for the term Faux News ever again. I’m struggling as I try to determine which one annoys me the most. I will get back to you when I have made a determination.
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The SBHE is the poster child for the consequences of a body appointed through political patronage: no matter who is on it, the decisions are terrible. Over the years, the Board has
Named two unqualified insiders as chancellor
Fired a UND president whose crime was that he supported his institution
Supported an NDSU conman over the chancellor
Permitted massive duplication of programs to justify institutions’ existence
Folded to the threat of a rich alumnus for an arena
Folded to the NCAA for a conference
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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While I agree with you overall, the duplication of programs is complicated by the fact that the ND constitution has provided for each campus to exist, so eliminating one can not be done by the board or the Governor. The constitution should be changed to reflect that people can drive from Mayville to Fargo or Grand Forks to attend a university. Eliminate a couple of small campuses and problem solved.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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ND has a long tradition of sneaking things into the Cosntitution to protect them. The latest gambit is the UND nickname. The fact that a state this size has 11 institutions is inane. Read over the catalogs of the small schools; the qualifications of their faculty and their major course requirements for graduation. Most are glotified high schools. Further, 11 campuses have diluted the state appropriation. The last figure I saw for UND was 23% state support. This has caused tuition to soar to make up for the lack of funds. UND is now considered a state-affiliated school (versus state-supported or state-funded).
The reality is, the small schools do not exist for education, but for economic impact for the communities. The state could dump seven of them, seeing they represent about 20% of enrollment system-wide, but that will never happen.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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My evaluation of the numbers are slightly different than Gene’s, but we are agreement in roughly 90% of his recommendations. I would not dump 7, but most certainly 5.
It would be nice that every major (in ND terms) have a full service institution, but in a state as small as ND (in terms of population we are just a medium sized city) that is just not prudent.
Full Four Year Universities:
UND
NDSU
Dickinson State
Minot State
Everything else is a 2 year Community and Technical College with no aspirations to join the big four.
Two year colleges should be the backbone of the AMERICAN educational system, not just ND. Over 50% of every freshman class, in every college and every state in the union do not receive a degree. The student runs out of money, or interest or brain power (There is no special needs classes in college. There cannot be. You either have it or you don’t. There is no other way to run the railroad.).
Two year schools have the remedial classes a huge proportion of high school graduates need to function in college; their tuition is usually 1/4 to 1/2 of a 4 year school (should be darn near free); and if the state has any common sense at all (most do not), any course over 100 level transfers seamlessly to a state college/university.
Those that are serious about college get their GE done at the local Community College and then transfer. Most will never leave the community college.
The Provost of Minnesota State Community and Technical College in Moorhead for Pima Community College in Tucson (where my step son goes). Pima is what a 2 year school should be: open enrollment, $68 a credit hour tuition, minimal fees (unlike your average university), enough used text books to make it work (all math 110 courses must use the same book, it is not an option. The books are also two semester or even two year books so you pay $150, but then you use it for two years) and enough specialized programs for kids who failed high school to make it possible for them to succeed.
It also has 5 campuses and 60,000 students.
The Maricopa Community College system in PHX has 10 separate schools and over 100,000 students.
A two year college is not something to be shunned. It is how we keep higher education accessible to the vast majority of students.
Being commuter schools, 2 year colleges also have less violence, less alcohol and drug issues, and no fraternities/sororities. They are definitely something to be emulated.
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In egalitarian ND all schools are the same. Years ago, the SBHE informed then UND president Baker that he could no longer use the term “Flagship University” in referring to UND; it made the other schools feel bad. This what what allows Mayville State to actually call itself a university, when it is a high school.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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I don’t disagree with Lloyds assertion of politics in play here, but he totally missed the reason this issue has and will continue to have legs. That is the SBOHE has been and continues to act alone, with no provision for public involvement, and I mean absolutely ZERO public involvement. Not talking decision making–its that they are not taking any public input into account.
It’s likely that the nickname issue brought this lack of consideration into focus for legislators and others–but that doesn’t mean that the proposed changes are due to the way the nickname issue was handled by SBOHE.
When you are a public decision making body and don’t return calls from the public, don’t have any process for public input–people are going to complain.
They could solve this problem on their own should they choose to simply insert some reasonable public input system into their decision making process and start demonstrating a bit of transparency in their actions. That they have refused to so is why this issue lingers.
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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Be honest, Kevin. Everything (except the stuff you do) is a racket.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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You can’t hit the bullseye any better than that.
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It happens so rarely that I have to point it out. I agree with Kevin.
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During the nickname debacle I said the SBHE needs to be elected. I stand by that. I think the state in the 1930s had it correct to make a separate board constitutionally responsible for the state’s colleges and universities (taking it out of the hands of the legislative and executive branch), but I believe the board needs more accountability.
Tim wants to hold the Board’s feet to the fire for retiring the name. I want to hold their feet to the fire for failing to live up to their constitutional mandate and challenging Uncle Al’s law the moment it was passed — they should have put Governor D on notice that the papers were already drawn up and the moment he signed it they would be at the courthouse filing for an injunction.
Tim and I disagree on why they need to go, but we both agree their usefulness as board members has expired. Right now, short of impeachment there is no way to hold them accountable.
Six year terms. State wide elections. The ability to recall. This would make the Board more responsive.
Bureaucrats who are not accountable for fear of politicalization are dangerous. Of course this is political: we are talking tax dollars here.
The question is how political? They are and always will be. It is impossible for a public (government) group not to be
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I’d like to see Lloyd or Chuck H. do an interview with a couple of past SBHE members. Anyone who’s been on a board for any length of time can look back and second guess some of their decisions, but, individual passions aside, I have a hunch the SHBE has done a very good job. I’d advise not allowing comments on the report, though.
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Since it appears the decision to open stories to comment is based strictly on whim, siad interview may or may not be open.
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Alvin a month ago several members of the Board stepped down. The Harald did in fact run at least two stories on why they were stepping down. They both stated the time commitment (one guy thought this would be like being on the board of a charitable organization, a few meetings a year and cocktails) and the heat over the Sioux issue.
I was not disappointed to see either go. Maybe others were, but definitely not me.
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FN, problem is, the wrong people resigned.
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That may be true, but the fact that they did made me happy. You cannot go in a new direction following the same people and Lord knows we need a new direction. ND needs and deserves a Board that looks at the opportunity to serve as a privilege, not an excuse for cocktails.
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The could only have been achieved had the former and current SBHE presidents resigned.
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fn: I did see at least one of those pieces, but I’d like to hear more. You know, mention of good deeds and comment on some things that could have gone better. I only suggested skipping the comment section because it’s kind of all been said. I haven’t seen a pattern with the offer of comments, either. There’s been a few times that I was hoping there wasn’t a comment option, mostly because of duplication with several other concurrent news pieces.
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My suggestion would be a policy of opening all letters , op/eds, and stories to comment, to avoid a situation such as now: story of council considering buying land along Columbia (open to comment), story about city council agreeing to buy land along Columbia (closed to comment).
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I know of several people who are working on an indepth study of the FS nickname saga. They are combing everything they can get their hands on. I hope their work sees the light of day.
I read many of the SBHE transcripts, but by no means conducted a thorough search. Same for the congressional record. Not to mention the things that are hard to ferret out, like Uncle Al’s emails.
It will probably not happen for another decade, but a complete study will be very enlightening. I have a feeling the true story is much more complex than we realize. I also have a feeling that we will never know the complete truth. Uncle Al is not going to give up his legislative correspondence without a fight.
It is amazing how in this regard he is not a leader, but rather just like every other politician.
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I long ago suggested this would make the subject of a great PhD dissertation. Problem is, many would never be interviewed on the subject, from Jahnke, who refused to try the case, to the Salt Lake City lawyers over how they dared charge over a million dollars.
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Emails are posing a huge problem for historians. They are too easy to delete; by the 100,000 (just ask all recent Presidential Libraries, both Democrat and Republican, in clear violation of federal law).
As you have said, ND is notorious for keeping things hidden they do not want revealed; sunshine laws be damned.
When I was doing my research on Odegard for my undergraduate thesis, I was shocked to learn that the Odegard school does not put their papers in Special Collections as required by University policy. They keep them, but no one is quite sure where. Because of this getting meeting minutes, etc. about the various decisions being made during the early days of the school was impossible. No one was willing to find out where things were.
When I give my $100 million to the school it will be with the stipulation that its papers are open to researchers as required by charter. Right now what is on paper and what is reality are two different things.
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Tell me where to send the monetary donation.
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One thing is clear. The Board DESERVES every bit of the “grief” they’re getting. My only disappointment is that there aren’t THOUSANDS of ND citizens demanding better.
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Agreed. As I said above, Tim and I both think the board has to go, but for different reasons. I suspect you and I are the same situation.
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You two might disagree, but I think you’re very much in the minority.
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I think you misunderstand me Alvin. I want the Board to stay (as an institution). I want the current members held accountable for their actions.
I think the Board is the right format for controlling the state’s educational resources. I think keeping the executive and legislative branches at arms length is a good policy.
I think they need to be elected.
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This is what may be called the propensity in ND for secret corruption. Chicago, New Orleans, and NYC are famous for corrupt practices; it’s considered a way of life. In ND, people prefer to ignore the fact it exists, because that would call into question the state as Eden.
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“Is there a better way to do it? I don’t know the answer to that,” said Grant Shaft, then-president of the board, recently. ”
How can the president of the Board make such an insipid comment?
Yeh…gotta hand it to that Grand Shafter…incredibly useless.
Maybe Grand will get back to you after he asks Berkeley Bob what to say?
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I always thought his last name was fitting, since it’s exactly what the state got.
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@GeneDuBois.. in regards to your off hand remark about Mayville. It’s NOT a high school. It’s one of the best four year universities in our region. I got a first class education at Mayville. In a rural region with small towns and small schools, it is truly wonderful to have a school that knows how to teach the individual.
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Yeah. You have 12 faculty with terminal degrees. The “university” accepts freshman and sophomore courses for the major. A real rigorous program.
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I would think the SBHE is going to keep getting grief unless and until education is the clear and obvious priority.
When you have things like the NDSU President threatening to cut core curriculum unless he gets a big tuition increase and at the same time has a deal going with the Development Foundation to get a private jet, it’s hard to see education is the priority.
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