Political uncertainty abounds as health care ruling looms
June 28, 2012 at 3:23 am in Grand Forks Herald
The Supreme Court’s imminent ruling on President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul marks a key pivot point in the presidential race. But neither side knows which direction the high court’s decision will turn the contest. Continue Reading
Well, unless we get Romney that pretty much nails the coffin on any chance of this country ever getting out of debt.
I cant believe that the Supreme Court believes that forcing me to pay for something i dont want is protecting my freedoms.
I am so ashamed of what our “Leaders” have done to this nation in the last 4 years.
Dont even pretend that this isnt Socialism at its finest.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“I cant believe that the Supreme Court believes that forcing me to pay for something i dont want … ”
As a Libertarian I completely agree with you, except for one small sticking point: if you show up in my ER or call 911 I still have to take care of you; regardless of your ability to pay. Until that little point is addressed, this whole discussion is moot.
As my previous comments have made perfectly clear, I am for personal liberty and personal responsibility. I am perfectly comfortable with you choosing to be uninsured, as long as you are perfectly comfortable with me not caring for you until your check clears.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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So you would deny ALL Americans their Liberties instead of addressing the problem with ER’s being forced to give attention to the uninsured.
Fix the problem. Dont take ownership of it.
Your thought process is no where near that of a Libertarian, its clearly a Liberal mindset.
If it were up to me, we would allow the ER to turn people away that didnt have Insurance or make them sign a loan agreement for the cash to be seen.
If they failed to pay, you lock them up.
Its time to quit treating everyone as if they have a right to exist without any contributions to society.
We dont OWE anyone anything.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Capt Amerika, you make Scrooge seem like a world-class philanthropist.
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There is a difference between giving people their due and demanding personal responsibility from others.
Scrooge wouldnt give people their due.
I wont give you a handout and will demand that you get off your rear and contribute to society.
There are a ton of agencies, many of which this “scrooge” donates to that will give you a “hand up”.
6 months of assistance is a hand up, 6 years of assistance/welfare is a handout.
if expecting people to give their best effort to contribute before being supported by the rest of the nation is evil, i guess i’m as evil as they get.
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“Republican rival Mitt Romney said he would repeal the overhaul on his first day in office, if elected.”
How exactly is Mitt planning on doing that? Does his election signal an end to democracy as currently practiced in the US? We can now count on all decisions being made by Presidential Fiat? The will of the people as expressed through their elected representatives no longer has any meaning?
Is Romney planning on being elected with a veto proof majority in the Senate?
I don’t think so. Pretty words and empty gestures. Politics as usual
Hot debate. What do you think?
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He at least deserves the opportunity to prove himself, you would call him a liar without giving him the opportunity.
Obama has lied to us from day 1. repeatedly, and you honestly believe the American people would re-elect the one person of the two that has proven he has no intentions of conducting business as promised?
You must be nuts.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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It’s not a tax, It’s not a tax, It’s not a tax, lie in a country minute, the Oman would!
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Re: RN, ‘veto proof’ majority’. I don’t think senate repubs need this. Since ‘Bamacare has been ruled a tax, all that’s needed is a simply majority to institute something called ‘budget reconciliation’ a method to repeal a tax.They would need to retain the house and pick up the senate, plus Romney….all very much a possibility.
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Not so simple. The Democrats had a majority in the Senate and yet the Republicans could block anything by threatening to filibuster. Unless three-fifths of the Senate vote to limit debate and force a vote, a filibuster can kill any bill.
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Glenn, I don’t think that applies to an established tax, a little apples ‘n oranges comparison on your part.
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http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Cloture.htm
The above link explains cloture.
I do not see a difference between enacting a law or repealing one as far as cloture goes. If I am wrong, please direct me to a source that would explain it. Perhaps I have been wrong in my understanding for years, but I am willing to admit it when proven wrong.
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Glenn
Republicans can repeal Obamacare with a 51-vote majority in the U.S. Senate through budget reconciliation, according to an architect of the health care law, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., who also made a death panel-style indictment of the Republican budget.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/rep.-waxman-republicans-can-repeal-obamacare-with-51-votes/article/2501153
Google Budget Reconcilliation Act of 1990 if you want to read the specific language and rules for budget reconcilliation. Since the SCOTUS rulled it a tax, the 51 vote or simple majority applies!
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Good job johnb on defining ‘budget recon’….
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I cannot reply to johnb’s response regarding budget reconciliation, but apparently budget reconciliation prevents a filibuster. So thanks, johnb. It’s always good to learn something and get ones facts straight.
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It is painful to recognize that the liberties which our forefathers fought a revolution to secure have been lost. But it is clear that our original constitutional system has been thrown out, and we are left with only the democratic process to preserve our rights. That should be a sobering thought for anyone who values liberty.
The significance of this decision cannot be overstated. Our Founding Fathers were greatly concerned that by giving too much power to the federal government, they would be endangering our liberties. So they sought to restrain the federal government by vesting it with only limited powers. As James Madison said, the powers of the federal government were to be “few and defined.” Yet with this decision, it is clear that the powers of the federal government are no longer limited at all. Our only remaining protections are with those liberties which were explicitly spelled out in the Bill of Rights, and even those are under assault. So today Madison’s vision of the American Republic has been turned on its head: The powers of the federal government are now broad and uncabined, and the freedoms of the people are few and confined.
this sums it up nicely
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I feel sorry for you if you really believe this. I’d feel better if you were just parroting Faux news talking points. Let me tell you a story: I took a trip across the country. At no point did anyone ask me where I was going or why. Nobody hassled me about anything. I traveled across the states one after another but I didn’t ever have to answer to anybody about anything. I spent my money as I pleased and had a wonderful time as I wandered. No cops stopped me and I was not even asked for my ID at motels if I payed cash. I ate where I wanted. Turned into roads that looked interesting and bascially minded my own business. Now that’s liberty; that’s freedom. What’s also liberty is knowing I’ll always the the financial means to do this because I have health insurance and will never have to go bankrupt to pay my medical bills. Now thats freedom, that’s liberty.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Congratulations.
You got to enjoy some liberty and have now decided you can afford to give up some.
You do realize that health care could have been fixed without Govt takeover.
dont you?
You do realize that the money has to come from somewhere and take a look North.
Canadians are trying to dump their system due to waiting lists to see doctors, lack of doctors due to low pay, and an ever increasing debt.
But i guess thats okay as long as you enjoyed your freedom ride across the country.
So today instead of just fixing the current system, we gave up a few liberties.
whats next comrade?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Capt Amerika, what Canadiens are you talking about? I have friends and relatives that live in Canada. I spend time at a lake in Canada and always ask them about how they like their health care. I have yet to hear a negative comment. I’m only in my sixties, though. Maybe someday I’ll hear a negative comment. People with life-threatening injuries or illnesses do go to the head of the line. Those whose illness or injury is not life-threatening wait their turn. It doesn’t matter what their net worth is. Rich or poor, they wait their turn. If there’s anything rich people seem to really hate is being treated as equals with poor people. It is those people who opt to come to the U.S. for their treatment. If I were them, I’d DO exactly as they do. Why wait if one can afford it? However, I wouldn’t gripe about not being able to butt into line.
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“those with non-life threatning illness wait their turn”.
and thats acceptable?
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“In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in the majority opinion. “Such legislation is within Congress’s power to tax.”
He later added: “The federal government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance. … The federal government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance.”
Hows that for talking out both sides of your mouth?
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I’m getting Obama’s “hope and change”. There’s a lot of hope for a change in president come January 2013.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Cap….Are you someone who has full coverage that doesn’t come out of your pocket? Because if you have to pay for your ownn insurance you’d see who ludicrus all your points are. The rest of us are paying over and over for all the uninsured who use services. We’re already being taxed by both the insurance companies and the health care providers…And that just keeps going up and up. This bill will help stem some of that, and that’s a relief that most of us who pay a good deal on our own premimums are really hoiping for. Even if it might raise taxes by a small percent it still will be far less than the costs that keep climbing without this.
By the way…The basis of this big scary plan was first presented by one of the right wing think tanks and was supported as a gopod idea on the right….Until the left decided to actually take it and make it happen….Now it’s the biggest most horrifying thing to come down the pike. So what’s your real concern…That a program might do good for everyone and that the extra money it costs you will be called a tax rather than just another premimum rise (If you pay your own, but didn’t you say you’re retired military……So doesn’t that mean you don’t have to pay for insurance? So is that what burns your arse? You might actually have to pay something for an overwhelming insurance plan? That fre insurance you get now is paid by……Oh no “Taxes” I’d reject it if I was hyou because you really hate having to pay taxes for insurance that covers others……Take a chill pill Cap and think a bit deeper…It’s not the fall of the US empire as you seem to think it is
Hot debate. What do you think?
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fix the system.
Do not force Americans to purchase something they do not want.
And as far as the “Retired Military”, yes, i did serve this country for over 20 years.
And NO, my health care is not free.
I have a system that makes me jump through hoops just to use it and all so i can save a few bucks.
Once upon a time, it was called a benefit, fees have been raised so much over the years its not the awesome deal it once was.
But hey, Anyone can feel free to get the same care.
Just give 20 years of your life to your nation.
Enjoy deploying to armpits of the world for 6 months to a year at a time.
Enjoy seeing your kids grow via Skype.
This bill does absolutely nothing to fix the prices and or the premiums.
All it does is give Insurance companies a full audience.
BCBS just raised their premiums, why?
Because now they have you where they want you.
All thanks to Obamacare.
Last week people had a choice.
Today they dont.
The cost didnt go down, they dont get a reduction in cost, they just have to pay.
Now explain how thats good for America.
We give up our right to choose too easily anymore.
I for one will not go quietly into a dictatorship, we as Americans have fought to many tyrants to exact the freedoms we enjoy today, i have it in me to fight one more.
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You need to blame people like Bette Grande for what they are doing to our service people and the complete gutting of what benefits they had.
Thank you for your service.
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I was reluctant to mention that because I figured it would be taken different than I meant it….I for one think that vets should have that and very much more so I’m definately not saying anything against it…….I was just trying to make the point that it is a system that is paid for with taxes.
Mostly Cap….I’m just saying to chill out and see shat it’s all about….Hey….There’s not a lot else to do about it now right? I didn’t read all hyour posts but I could swear that on some as you kept building that little black icon you use started turning red with rage (Saw it with my own eyes I did) Big ol’ blood vessel getting enlarged and the whole nine yards.
This really isn’t something as major as say going to another conflict (I’d say war, but we haven’t actually had one declared in many decades) It’s not the end of life as we know it either……It’s a change, but one we’ll adjust to or…..If your side gets its way…will be overthrown and leave amny out in the cold with nothing once again, except for us to pick up their unpaid bills……In a way it’s both a win, win and a lose lose because neither side really gets all it wants.
As for the Supreme Court……In theory each justice is supposed to be voting strictly on the issue according to the constitution and are not supposed to be voting as right or left wingers. It’s bad enough that congress is divided so completely that it’s difficult for the peoples needs to be met…….But for the Supreme Court to be a reflection of congress…..What the hell chance do we have on anything then. Man…They’re supposed to be above that crap….Granted they’re just human, but their position should warrant stepping away from party affiliation on each and every decision……..I’m hoping that’s why Roberts voted the way that he did……Because I think in reality he does want to be a good jurist
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The original bill did address getting pricing under control, but it was one of the many compromises that had to be thrown out to get a majority vote…..Hopefully this will get revisited because without addressing bill padding we’ll never get costs down. Right now even if you complain about costs you know are bogus on a bill the insurance company will usually shrug it off because they don’t believe in resolving disputes……Instead they pay, and then you pay more in premimums.
There’s a former nurse who examined her husbands hospital bill and saw items on there that he’d only need if he was giving birth. After the hospital wouldn’t take the charges off she contacted the insurance agent, and they wouldn’t touch it because it was only a few hundred dollars worth of charges so not worth going after. Like the old saying…”A few hundred here and a few hundred there and eventually we’re talking real money.”
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Tundra, there is a huge difference between some getting free health care from the government after offering to defend this nation with his life for over 20 years, and a lazy, free loader that doesn’t want to work getting it.
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First…I already covered that…Second…Get off it and use your head instead of your intolerance…..Many of these so called “Freeloaders” Are the WORKING POOR who have no way to get affordable insurance. Many of those will be paying something for their coverage which is better than the current system where they either suffer, go to the ER, or just die (The most popular method preferred by right wingers……Until it’s themselves…Since not everyone against this realizes they too can be vunerable) If you’re buying into the right winged pundits pure made up nonsense then you’re buying a false bill of bads (No “Goods” involved)…..
This isn’t some big give away like fox tries to make everyone believe….Just look where it’s working well….Oh wait…You can’t do that because Mittens is from there and basically put this plan together that is now something he never even did…..
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My problem with Obamacare is simply this.
The Govt is forcing Americans who do not have insurance, whether they cant afford it or just dont want it, to buy it.
I have Insurance, this truly does not affect me from that standpoint.
My problem is this bill does nothing to address the real problems in the package.
And, i would point out, that the bill as it sits in front of the Supreme Court is the bill as it was written in its entirety.
There was nothing removed to placate the GOP because they didnt have to, they had a supermajority and they used it.
The only thing that was removed was the Single Payer provision and that was removed because Dems voted no on that one too.
My objections are simply this.
Romneycare – is okay.
Obamacare – Not okay.
why? whats the difference?
Romney introduced sweeping healthcare legislation in Mass. States rights allow people who are in total and complete disagreement with something to move to another state in protest if they choose to get away from what they deem bad legislation.
When the Feds do it, you have no where to go.
This is exactly what our Forefathers wanted to avoid by keeping the states strong.
The Fed now threatens states on a daily basis to get them to do as the Fed sees fit.
My anger is not about Health care, its about the erosion of the States rights and our personal liberties.
I feel Health care needed reform horribly.
Tort reform, stop all the lawsuits against providers trying to save your life.
Regional Insurance, let me buy my Insurance from anywhere in the country – competition lowers premiums.
Make people without Insurance understand that they have to get a preapproved loan card to carry on them if they choose not to have Insurance or they will be turned away at the ER.
Sounds mean, i get it, but its a personal decision and people know they may need to go to the ER.
If i couldnt afford Insurance, i would be willing to get a loan card to pay with in case i ever needed to use it.
I feel that to fix the problem, you have to address the problem.
Never in the history of this nation has the Govt intervened and made something run cheaper and better.
People keep saying this bill will allow everyone to get insurance. What stopped them before? Cost?
Cost didnt go down. BCBS of ND just announced premium raises. So now Obamacare forces people to buy insurance that now costs more than it did a month ago.
“Free/Reduced” Healthcare programs should be given by the states and run by the states and only if the states so choose.
Alaska gives every citizen $1000 a year from oil, that could just as easily be converted over to a healthcare plan for their people.
ND has a huge surplus from oil as well, we could do the same.
All of this is fine by me as long as its done at the State level and not forced upon us by the Federal Govt.
To Sum it up…
Federal Govt – Bad
State Govt – Good
Feds cant even do what they are there to accomplish as it is, last thing we need is a bunch of people who cant even pack up and leave Afghanistan or Balance a budget directing our Healthcare.
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But we are the “United States” and sometimes we need to do things on a federal level that will help even the statew who can’t afford to do things on their own. Before the feds stepped in with programs to help feed school kids in some of the poorest states there were kids failing mostly because they couldn’t get enough to eat to be able to concentrate. Studies showed that once some of these kids had school lunches that they were able to learn. Sometimes we need to do things on a federal level to cover those who have no other option or oportunity. I personally would much rather see tax money go towards helping the actual poor then to see it continue to send money to those who already have more money than can spend.
Yes…The program needs a hell of a lot of tweaking, and perhaps it might become medicare (Or is it medicade? I always get those mixed up) for all. Clearly costs will have to be figured into the equation. Without getting a handle on costs all of this will be less effective. As far as the current insurances companies raising prices….That’s what they do and have been doing regardless. We’ve been at their mercy for a long damn time already. It reminds me of gas prices. If someone says there could possibly be a .05 percent reduction in production someplace because of a storm or something, then the prices go up at the pumps right now……However; How long have they been telling us prices for crude have been dropping and where have the prices been going? Down extremely slow.
There are a lot of things the private sector are good at….But concern for citizens over all welfare is not it…Unless there’s a buck to be made….
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The working poor? How hard is it to get a job that offers health insurance? How many choices do these working poor make concerning financial matters that could go towards health insurance that instead goes toward a flat screen tv, or direct tv or something else that isn’t a neccessity?
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Your concept of the working poor is prety destorted. Can’t really debate with someone who who’s fixed concept is a basic stereotype that’s most likely been fed to you from some pundit. There’s a number of people who have all they can do just to provide a roof over their heads with the wages they make…..That and food…Especially if they are a family……If that concept seems unrealistic to you then maybe hyou should do some volunteer work that will put you in contact with such realities….Hell….If most of you right wingers ever got out of your shell and mingled with real people….It just might open your eyes some……..But an open mind is basically frowned upon on the right so I guess that has little chance of occuring.
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Maybe the working poor should get a job at American Crystal. They are hiring and have great pay and benefits, not good enough for union folk though. Although the working poor probably wouldn’t be interested in a full time, year round job, they would have to stop sucking off the government welfare they’ve been brought up to live on. What to do? Get a real job and contribute to society, or continue to be a drain on society?
No where in the constitution does it say everyone has a right to happiness, it says we have the right to pursuit of happiness, which means the government isn’t suppose to give it to you, you’re supposed to earn it.
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And nowhere does it say we have to be a bunch of heartless jerks with no compassion for those who have less than us either. You know there’s a lot of people who used to have the same smug ass attitude as that….Because they had good jobs that they thought would last forever. People with real job skills who suddenly found themselves jobless because some mega CEO could make several million more by eliminating their jobs. Many of those same people discovered in other sections of the country that their trade was swamped with applicants, and eventually all trades were……..Many are doing small part time jobs if they can find them…..I doubt any of them have that smug attitude about the working poor anymore…..Take heed….It can happen to anyone……..
Like it or not…We’re in this together…..And after all the money that goes to other countries to help them, and all the money that goes to meg corporations for who knows what reason…..Isn’t it about time some went to Americans to help us all?
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Obamacare is not a tax! Obamacare is not a tax! Obamacare is not a tax! Supreme Court says it is and O is now vindicated and all is good? Tax and spend!
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Flyingnurse, you keep coming back to your argument of the emergency room costs incurred by the uninsured. You are grossly overstating the issue. The total amount of emergency room expenses incurred by uninsured people that are not either covered by a government program (other than the new healthcare law) or paid by the individual was 46 billion in 2008 (the most recent year available). In contrast, 2 trillion dollars are spent each year in the US on healthcare costs. The uninsured emergency room costs you keep mentioning are just .023% of total healthcare spending. Is it a problem, yes. Is it the reason we have a healthcare crisis, no. I realize that you have had significant firsthand experience with this issue, but just because it is a problem doesn’t mean it is anything close to the reason why we have a healthcare crisis.
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Capt Amerika, while you are quick to point out deficiencies in other healthcare systems you ignore the most important facts. While the US spends 2 and 1/2 times the average of the top twelve developed countries on healthcare, our life expectancy is dead last. When all countries are considered, the US ranks 28th in life expectancy, behind countries like Chile and Greece. While you note some inconveniences in other countries, the bottom line is that at the end of the day the care received in other developed countries far exceeds the care received in the US for half the cost. What you are advocating is a system that costs twice as much and produces far less. While I agree with you that the new healthcare law makes things worse, our healthcare system is broken. We need to fundamentally change healthcare in this country.
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You’re right, but we have to start somplace, and with the powerful lobby groups this at least get’s our toe in the door with the hope that the door can get opened up to eventually dealing with the overwhelming bill padding that has probably more to do with the run away cost problems than anything else…..
Then there’s one of my personal favorites…….Drugs developed universities with money that comes from grants that then gets sold to drug companies to develop and eventually come back with a huge price tag….When it probably wouldn’t have been created without tax payer money in the first place…..How does the tax payer end up getting it from the fron of the process and then in the end again without any relief for helping out in the first place?
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Tundra, you are correct that we need to start somewhere, but the new healthcare law is not progress. A good analogy would be that we need to walk ten miles in a southerly direction to solve the problem and the new law has us walking in a northerly direction; just because we are walking doesn’t mean it is a good thing, we are actually making the problem worse. You don’t solve cost issues by increasing the amount of money flowing into the system. Every positive comment about this bill is related to the great benefits that it will produce for individuals (coverage for pre-existing injuries and the uninsured). Unfortunately the law does absolutely nothing to try and contain costs and simply creates more entitlements that will be an impediment to future changes; nobody will ever want to give up an entitlement once it is granted. You can’t solve cost issues by providing greater and greater subsidies; that only intensifies the problem. And, if you don’t think that there were just as many big lobbies in favor of the law as there were against the law you are naïve.
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Tundra, my comment was probably too harsh. My apologies. I do agree with you the cost issues are directly related to excessive charging by medical facilities.
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Ever wonder what politics might be like if the only contact any loby could have would be a timed presentation to committees and that’s it? You’re preaching to thw chior when it comes to disgust about our system of lobbying and the unholy influence they have iover the whole system……
That being said….Something had to start someplace and until present everything kept getting shot down. Single payer would have been the most logical way to go, but that too got shot down….Right out the shoot from…And the Dems none the less (Go figure….I’d say there was some very grubby fingers in the pot)
I don’t profess to know all the particulars, but if this will at least start to help cover those who have no other means for insurance…Then at least it’s a beginning…..Things can get fine tuned from there….Or not….Depending on the resistance brought forth by the big bucks…
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So many thing wrong with our Govt and neither party will fix any of it.
Lobbyists – Serve no positive role for “We the people” they need to go.
Unlimited Campaign contributions – You will never get me to believe that when a company gives you 100 million dollars to get you elected that you dont “owe” them something.
I would cut off my left… well you get the picture, if we could just have Ron Paul for 4 years.
It would be a tough 4 years but our nation would be stronger and better for it.
He wants smaller govt, he hates lobbyists and the SuperPacs, and has a foreign policy view of staying out of others business unless their troops are heading to our doorsteps.
He believes in states rights not federal govt running states too.
awwww, to dream.
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You had me up to the Ron Paul part…Nice guy and the only Republican who would speak the truth in the debates, but complete minimalization of government goes too far. I think the real answer is in the first part…We need to somehow get those other items reined in so that we have government working for us and not special interests. I bet if we could somehow get that accomplished…You and I would find far fewer gaps in future programs that we’d disagree with. Because when government was working they would work for compromises that would bring bills to us that took into account all sides and not just two like some tug of war.
I know there’s some good statesmen and women out there who could and would do a much better job if we can find a way to rein in the huge money influences. How many of us would like to see something like the UK system of campaigns that last something like what? Three or four months? I’m not sure, but when I heard of a major election over there a year or two ago that only lasted that long I knew they were on to something very good….
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I believe our mortality rate is tied more to our overzealous lifestyles as opposed to our healthcare system.
Other countries dont cram McDonalds Value meals down their throats 5 days a week like people here do.
I am reluctant to condemn the people who provide world class service to patients for our bad choices.
Otherwise it would be hard to explain why people from all over the world flock here willing to pay cash for procedures that could have been done in their own country.
We overpay for services because Lawyers will sue the hospitals over anything and everything.
Malpractice Insurance isnt cheap and therefore doctors order every possible test to include a dozen that you dont need just to cover their own rear.
We pay so much more because we allow this garbage to go on and then we make the doctor out to be the bad guy.
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As for the over litigation……Granted there is some of that, but then again there’s litigation that is very warranted. People have had the wrong body parts cut off, have had bloched oporations in all kinds of ways, and if it happens to you or a family member you sure as hell want some retribution for major blunders. For every frivolous suit there’s many ligitimate suits. Personally I think the threat of a suit keeps them on their toes more. I’d hope they’d always be on their toes, but if they had less to worry about once litigation became tougher to do….Who knows?
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Obummercare is a tax or unconstitutional per USSC. Democrats need need to defend this tax predominantly paid by those making less than 120,000/year. It is time to step up or shut up!!
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I am optimististic from the thoughtful posts I have read that Obama and Obama care will be repealed. Declaring Obama’s mandate a tax means only 51 votes in the senate is needed for repeal of the individual mandate.
What a gift has been given to Republicans by the Supreme Courts decision. I am glad this is now in the hands of we voters where this decision should be decided not the courts!!!!
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So what? If this does get repealed and those who might have been able to buy into actual coverage suddenly wont have the opportunity to once again so that they can’t get medical care and suffer…..Is what you are hoping for? People who can’t get medication they need and perhaps die as a result is ok? People of all ages…Not just what you might consider healthy adults….That’s ok? Or is it that wonderful system of paying far more than a little tax increase to the health care system and the insurance companies for continuing business as usual…….That’s what you’re looking for? Because as an industrialized nation we pay more and get far less bang for our buck….But somehow that seems good to you? Or have you actually thought of any of this and only considered the one thing the pundits keep pounding in to your skull…….It’s Obamacare so it has to be bad?
There were better options, but with all the shittling down this was the best they could do….Otherwise we probably would have a much better bill. Then again any bill that will actually help others, but might cost a slight more in taxes is horrible right? So how is not helping others and getting worse than taxation throught the whole system a better option? I really don’t follow that logic,,
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Wow! They let this through with a typo that changed “Whittling” into sort of swearing…..Damn…They never seemed to even look at these so I’d just resubmitt with changes…..Not used to them being on the ball…I guess I’ll have to give them some time when I get the “Waiting” message
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So what? If this does get repealed and those who might have been able to buy into actual coverage suddenly wont have the opportunity to once again so that they can’t get medical care and suffer…..Is what you are hoping for? People who can’t get medication they need and perhaps die as a result is ok? People of all ages…Not just what you might consider healthy adults….That’s ok? Or is it that wonderful system of paying far more than a little tax increase to the health care system and the insurance companies for continuing business as usual…….That’s what you’re looking for? Because as an industrialized nation we pay more and get far less bang for our buck….But somehow that seems good to you? Or have you actually thought of any of this and only considered the one thing the pundits keep pounding in to your skull…….It’s Obamacare so it has to be bad?
There were better options, but with all the whittling down this was the best they could do….Otherwise we probably would have a much better bill. Then again any bill that will actually help others, but might cost a slight more in taxes is horrible right? So how is not helping others and getting worse than taxation throught the whole system a better option? I really don’t follow that logic,,
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Maybe on July 4th while we celebrate the birth of our great nation we can take a little time out to refect on how our nation is built on the premise that we are all free and equal and can strive to be happy. Maybe we could even believe that our great nation is capable of providing a health care sytem so that we can all be as healthy a nation as we can be. That it can be efficiently run like medicare and social security and thaty the cost of medical care could com down. Or we can turn on Fuax news and piss and moan about how we are going to hell in a hand basket because of what congress and the supreme court has dropped on our doorstep. Me. I’m going to enjoy the 4th and contemplate the benefits of the health care initiative offers out nation and the day when everyone can get health care. Enjoy! Wave your flag with vigor.
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Social security is going broke. didnt you get the memo.
And this great country was built on the concept that everyone is equal and afforded the same opportunities.
No where and at no time did our forefathers say they were forming this nation to provide for the people.
Actuaslly, it was quite the opposite, they provided a nation that would have a federal system that stayed out of peoples way and let them be free.
You are free to not purchase anything you dont want to.
At least you were for the first 236 years.
I guess we just misinterpretted the Constitution for a whole lot of years.
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John
I have paid into the Medicare Trust Fund as have many Americans. To take out 500 + billion dollars of the Medicare Trust Fund to give to not so productive individuals is a travesty of justice to those who have worked hard to put that money into the system. The medicare trust fund was presently underfunded. Seniors have considerable consequences to face in their future healthcare. Do you believe this transfer of “wealth” is justified? We are now short 500 billion dollars more!!!
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For all those who are still one deminsional about this…Read the letter to the editor from Sally Stutlien today. She really shows the positive about this bill
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I have debated a number of people who oppose “Obamacare,” who are covered by Medicare. Universal health care is fine for them but not for others. These are people who have had knees and hips replaced. Only one of them has said that she wishes we didn’t have Medicare either. She would prefer to buy her own insurance. At least she is consistent. However, she has no idea what health insurance for the elderly would cost a private individual.
When a term life insurance policy expired after I turned 60, the new premium more than tripled. Does anyone think a healthy couple over 60 could get coverage under $50,000 a year? (It might be interesting to ask an actuary to estimate what seniors would have to pay for coverage if there were no Medicare.) Besides premiums like that being affordable to only the wealthiest, there is the issue that without a government mandate, no insurance company would allow someone with a pre-existing condition to buy health insurance.
Insurance companies should not be considered the “bad guys” in this debate. They have to balance their books and their denial of people with existing conditions and their limitations on lifetime benefits is simply sound business practice. If they “have a heart”, they will go broke and no one would have insurance. Unless everyone pays into the insurance pool, either through taxes or by being forced to buy coverage, the practices I referred to would have to continue. Forcing health insurance companies to provide coverage to those with pre-existing conditions would be like forcing car insurance companies to cover damage to a car that was incurred before a person purchased a policy.
The fairest option is to go to a single-payer system that covers basic health care. Obamacare did not go far enough, but it is a step in the right direction.
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