Plan for 15-story building announced for downtown Duluth
June 28, 2012 at 5:56 am in Duluth News Tribune
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Plans were announced this morning to raze the former KDAL building on Superior Street and Fourth Avenue West in downtown Duluth and build a 15-story office building on the site. Continue Reading
Please explain the need for 20 million tax dollars to build a private building.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Right? It has now become the norm for local and state government to kick in 25% to sweeten the pot to attract business from abroad. This is one thing that both conservatives and liberals should agree on, but those that are so hardened on the left are blind to see that the ‘rich’ just saved $20 million.
Don’t get me wrong here, I am ecstatic for the local unions that will ultimately build this thing and for the people that will ultimately be employed there, but I have problems with my tax dollar paying for private enterprise. What next, state grants to attract a skilled work force to move to Minnesota.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Seems like both sides of the political fence agree on this one. Why do we have to bribe businesses to locate here when things are supposedly so good here? It would be nice to hear the whole story.
However, if there’s a true need for the building, that’s cheap considering the employment in that type of building and some of the other dumb stuff the government spends money on. The people who work there will have to live here, pay taxes here, and buy groceries here too. Probably really a good deal for Hermantown.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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YES, please explain that and why billions of tax dollars go to countrys that want to kill us. This time AMERICAN PEOPLE need the help. State after state going belly-up but good old Pakistan gets their charity hand out. I’m not talking food charity, I’m talking blood money.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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I’m thinking that 20 million would come in handy for those who lost homes in the flooding. I don’t like the idea of welfare or corporate welfare. Can I get a grant to cover 25 percent of the cost to build a new house?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Don’t get me wrong….this would be a great thing for Duluth. But the timing here is way off. You have flooding across our entire area. People have lost everything in some cases. And you are going to hand a developer a grant for 20 million??
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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I will gladly build a new home and employ several contractors – union or non-union I don’t care – if I also get 25% of the costs paid for by someone else.
“$20 Million federal grant” = $20 Million from you, me and whoever else pays taxes.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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On the bright side, it’s 20M less to pay people to sit at home and eat junk food, smoke cigs and live the easy life.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Clarification not provided by the DNT: According to BusinessNorth, the state money is coming via funding provided by an economic bonding package approved by Legislature. The money is earmarked for demolition, public infrastructure and a public parking ramp.
Mixed feelings. Demolition should be paid for by the owners. Public infrastructure and public parking? Seems like a legitimate government services.
My astonishment is that the developer has found $60 million in capital for commercial real estate development. I’m thinking Enbridge may be the tenant.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Yes…demo should be paid by the developer. So you put a “public” tag on something and you get a free parking ramp? I’m sure the public may be able to park in the ramp. But most of the parking would be from the buildings tenants. I can maybe see some money to improve the sewer and water service. Or maybe the “public sidewalks”. 20 million? I should call my backyard “public” so I get a new 2 car garage.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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You don’t just build a stadium. You set a precedent that you pay for forever after.
If we can gift a ball club a nifty new stadium how can you deny your developer buddy a nifty new building?
You can’t do it on principle because you don’t have any principles anymore. Just arbitrary political power.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Wait a minute…. So, if the government gives a tax break to wealthy individuals and companies, costing the public millions of dollars, that’s a good thing. But if the government subsidizes a construction project built by a wealthy company, costing the public millions of dollars, that’s a bad thing? The net effect is the same. I wonder how different the comments would be if the headline read, “Government lowers tax burden on construction firms.” It’s still a handout either way you swing it.
I’m not saying that I support the use of state funding for this purpose… but it hardly seems “anti-business.” It makes me wonder if conservatives even know what they support, or if their opinions are strictly emotional reactions.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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If you conservatives are simply against all government subsidies on principle, then we might have some common ground. We could band together against big-energy subsidies, agribusiness subsidies, highway subsidies, and defense contract subsidies. Unless, of course, if you’re not as against government picking-and-choosing as you claim to be.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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1. Anyone who supports this isn’t a conservative.
2. Giving someone tax dollars is in no way comparable to allowing someone to keep what they earned.
In the first case someone is enriched at taxpayer expense. In the second someone is not being impoverished. That people are so stupid they can’t grasp this boggles my mind.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I hate to repeat myself, David… But if you don’t support government subsidies, then why doesn’t the left and the right band together against big-energy subsidies, agribusiness subsidies, highway subsidies, and defense contract subsidies? Unless, of course, if you’re not as against government picking-and-choosing as you claim to be.
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I will reluctantly answer my own question. Conservatives would rather hate on the left than do anything that actually helps out society – including themselves. You have fallen into the Rupert Murdoch divide-and-conquer trap, and you’re holding the city and country hostage with your hostility.
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I agree with some of the concerns of the public financing portion of this proposal.
I hope the denialists in Duluth will finally acknowledge that this Metro area is in the middle of true revival. Thousands of incoming jobs, downtown renewal, heck even the flood will prove to be beneficial with the federal dollars helping to replace our long neglected infrastructure.
After decades of decline, Duluth truly is in the early stages of a economic boom.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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It’s almost like we need need a high speed rail to support commuters willing to make the daily six hour round-trip from the Twin Cities to work up here.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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let’s add a one way ticket outta here for all the complainers!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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After the Tech Center fiasco why would anyone in the city want to invest in another possibility venture? Count the tax money spent on the empty spaces until they were rented and then ask yourself is this a real good idea?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Well played Don!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Cleveland Cliffs
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The Tech Village is 100 percent occupied and profitable. Perhaps a better example would be the airbus facility.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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It only took them 12 years to fill the Tech Village.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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The problem with the tech center is how they sold it. It was supposed to attract high tech companies to the city. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m not aware of a single company came here because of that building.
When SMDC considered moving their data farm there they found the IT infrastructure so inadequate they would have had to gut it and rebuild from scratch.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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You need to look at the fine print of the “100% occupancy”. When you give commercial space away it’s easy to get tenants… It’s just as easy to sign lengthy leases that are loaded with initial incentives to get people to relocate and charge them higher rents in the following years or simply increase the costs the building provides. Almost all of the businesses relocated from other areas of the city and now those spaces are empty. When the owner brags about signing new lease keep in mind the last time he was in the news.. In case you forgot it was because he “accidentally” ran over people picketing one of his buildings and quietly paid the fines.
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I may be the minority here, but I still see nothing wrong with local governments “sweetening” the deal to lure big commercial investment. The long term benefits of having a building like this (local tax revenue, good paying jobs, improving the downtown area, etc) far out-weighing the $20mil grant that the city is asking for.
Let’s not assume that the building will not be constructed if the grants are not approved. All I’m saying is that if I’m AtWater and the city offers to seek a $20mil grant in my favor, who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Now – one could argue why $20 mil is (assumed to be) easy to get for big corporations but (supposedly) we can’t help people in Duluth that didn’t have flood insurance, but that is a separate topic all together.
I hope this goes through. I like the Enbridge anchor tenant prediction, but I don’t think Superior will let them go with out a fight.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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LOL!! Duluth did not put up much of a fight when Enbridge left Duluth and re-located to Superior! Seriously, not sure if it is going to be Enbridge going in that location….I know they are going to be somewhere in the “old downtown” area. Either way, congrats to who ever it is going to be!
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Enbridge was Lakehead Pipeline which was headquartered in Duluth and operated as an American subsidiary of the Canadian parent company. Enbridge moved its American HQ to Houston, not Superior.
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Blighty….You are correct in saying the name was Lakehead Pipeline when they were in Duluth….I never said Superior was Enbridge’s american headquarter’s….I mentioned that the Duluth office moved to Superior…..and Duluth never put up much of a fight to keep the Duluth office!
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John, the Tech Village has been doing just fine for quite awhile now.
Offices as such don’t just fill up in the blink of an eye. New tenants need to be lined up and then they need to get out of their old leases which takes time.
A project like this is a good thing for the city of Duluth and Nathan is correct, Duluth is poised for another economic boom and this is one small part of that.
Good things ARE happening, no matter what the ‘piss in my morning cheerios’ crowd has to say…even if it includes some grant money.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Duluth has been poised for an economic boom for the past 30 years. I hope the boom materializes this time.
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What’s wrong with using the old Lennox or Gateway building that went bankrupt and is now sitting idle, waiting for squatters? Did anything ever happen with that, because I don’t recall ever reading or hearing anything else about it. It’s only a couple blocks down from the proposed site for the new building. It would save a tremendous amount of time and money. Or would they rather spend money to tear it down so they can get a state grant to build a new building? If Minnesota has to kick in money, one of the old buildings should be used. If these jokers want a brand new building, the cost should lie solely with them.
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And I believe both buildings are higher than 15 floors.
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Go check for us to be sure. While you are there count the bathrooms and measure the square footage of each building.
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I heard this building was 16 levels, but that’s another story.
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Lennox and Gateway were purpose built apartment buildings and unsuitable to tenants needing open-plan, large footprint floorspace. New buildings can be wired for modern telecomms, cooling/hvac, elevators, etc. I’m all for recycling but L&G are best left to apartment renovations – could be section 8 or luxury,,,, whatever.
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City money comes from the left pocket, state money comes out of the right pocket.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Mostly true David, but in reality the Tech Village was sold as a business incubator. And a fair assessment would account for the numerous businesses that have started and expanded in that facility, many of which tech related. There are several IT, software, and other related businesses currently occupying the building.
So did the building bring in that one huge outside tech company? Absolutely not. But in the end it is a success. I also don’t think you can deny the spillover effect that has resulted surrounding the building. Blight has been replaced by too many remodel and construction projects to mention.
A great example is Sherman’s building. There is no way that project would have happened without downtown renewal.
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It certainly is true that some of the Tech Villages occupants are relocated from other properties. But A&L has clearly stated the building is profitable, so no they aren’t giving space away. 12 years ago downtown occupancy rates were lower than present levels, and there was less total square footage.
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Unbelievable what people can find to complain about…
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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Great to hear they are going to rebuild the Lyceum Theatre !!!!!
Katydid–this is not in “Old Downtown”
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Sorry, my mistake. You are right.
I was thinking it was the other old TV station building, across the street from Hotel Duluth.
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To the 50%+ on here, forgive me for sounding arrogant. To the rest of the detractors of this development, listen up! The ignorance of readers on these pages like you, never ceases to amaze me.
Have you no modesty or even the slightest intelligence? You so blatantly expose your lack of understanding of business, commercial real estate, property development, urban regeneration but most despicably, you slam something that is so evidently needed to revitalize the local economy. Go live in the woods!
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You talk about revitalizing economy. What has happened to america in the last 237 years that has been “good” for the economy, other than war profiteering and business greed for the few? We haven’t progressed since 1776, we regressed and continue to get worse every minute. Business is not mankind’s solution for prosperity. It’s our downfall.
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So we went from being a colony of misfits in a brand new land to the most powerful country in the world in only 237 without making any economic progress?
Makes sense.
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Dead Inside: Do you have 237 pages for me to spew out my feelings about mankind? I’d like to see a cull of half the world’s population but do I blame a proposed office building on Superior Street for the world’s ills? You need to get some perspective. Should I bother to waste my time on people like you? Probably not. But for the record, Duluth needs a diversified and balanced economy that includes tertiary sector economic activities. I doubt the 200 people who’ll be working in the proposed people are going to be plotting the end of the world. Hopefully it will be a relocated or newly opened division of Wells Fargo or US Bank, a consolidation of Maurices HQ, the return of Enbridge’s US HQ (that left Duluth for Houston some yrs ago) or a company that is moving a part of their operations to Duluth. Who in this community can find anything wrong with that!!!
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Dead, what would be the alternative if business is not mankind’s solution for prosperity? What would the world look like if Dead Inside was in charge? What would it be like in your ideal world?
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You mean besides Dorkus, Blighty and John not being in it? Well, the world would be filled with people who actually had some integrity and pulled their own weight for their community doing things that benefited the community as a whole instead of businesses and like minded people trying to gouge everyone else so they can have more than everybody else. There would be no money and the technology level would be around the time before cars were invented. Your days would be spent toiling in the field so you could eat instead of worrying about office buildings. The word “family” actually meant something other than kids sexting on their $600 bluetooth cellphone dinglepad while mother and father neglect them in favor of swinging with the freakshows from Craigslist. You talk with your neighbors regularly and people actually knew each other. Horses and wagons would be the transportation. You make your own butter in a churn. You milk the cows so you could have milk that day. You make trips to the well to have water. You take your produce to the general store to trade for other needful goods. It would be a treat, once a week, for the kids to get a piece of rock candy or liquorice. Everyone in the community gets together one day on the weekend for a community potluck dinner, bringing what they can. Generally, your time would be spent working to survive instead of dreaming of concrete jungles and overgourging yourself on raspberry scones and a triple mocha frappuccino from Starbucks.
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This could be a great thing for Duluth. We don’t know all the details yet. Who are the major tenants? If the “major” tenants are local then you really are not gaining a lot. The article talks about 200 “new” jobs. A positive step for sure. But you are giving them a 20 million “grant” for 200 jobs? I have no problem with the city funding some of the improvements to get the ball rolling. Improving the sewer and water service or connecting the new building to the skywalk system. I’ve seen too many of these “projects” that promise the moon but fail to deliver.
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In order to lure companies to our location, we sometimes have to spend money to finalize the deal. Considering the fact that this money would have been spent elsewhere regardless of whether or not we were a part of the deal, we should be commending Ness and others on drawing this developer to our city.
Unless people don’t want jobs… I mean, who needs construction, office, IT, management or maintenance jobs? Jobs are for weirdos.
BTW, comparing this to the Metrodome is comparing apples to oranges. This will actually create NEW jobs, not just sustain existing ones.
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Who designed this thing? Mussolini?
It looks like some old East German government building.
I like the address on the top, too. Is that for post office, or are the people who work there going to get so drunk over their lunch hours that they will have trouble getting back to their workplace?
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Fascist modernist or East Bloc Stalinist? Not sure it can be both.
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Maybe one of the major tenant’s is United Healthcare that is expanding another side of their business to Duluth than the business activities that it does at its Rice Lk Rd site.
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I like this building, I think this building is pretty. (wonder if they’ll let me post this)
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Quote Nathan
The Tech Village is 100 percent occupied and profitable. Perhaps a better example would be the airbus facility.
It took many months to fill all of the spaces in the tech village to which the city paid the rent on all unused spaces until they were picked up.
The NW Airbus facility was rented out before the lights went on and yes though it did fail it is soon to possibly start up again.
Atwater is a division of RJS who also coincidentally owns a large construction company that is capable of not only doing the demo they can also build the new building. Nothing like getting paid state dollars to build your own building..
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The only real benefit of the Tech Village is that it cleaned up that part of downtown. It was supposed to bring in all kinds of high tech jobs. Or it least that was how it was sold to the taxpayers. Sure…it created some temporary construction jobs. The thought was that Duluth’s “quality of life” would bring high tech companies to town. The internet had connected the outside world to Duluth. High tech workers would come in droves to live in “paradise”. The thing is….conpanies don’t need to be in a “center” or a “village” to operate. You can operate anywhere you want with internet service. And those younger highly skilled tech people would rather live in more fashionable places. If only we had high speed rail to connect us to the rest of the world…..wow….just think of the boom that would create.
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Need to hear all the details before I am completely sold on this… I like the idea. I hope it brings GOOD, FULL TIME, Well paying jobs and hopefully expansion.
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Any bet that this will be a privately owned building, and the primary occupant will be State of MN offices—with something like a 20 year lease that pays off the building and the bottom line is public tax dollars will have paid for the entire building, which will remain in private ownership leased to the State and/or other government entities. The 200 new jobs will be split between people cleaning the building on a part time basis and full time government jobs expanding over jobs that currently exist.
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You know, I was just thinking the same thing, eg State of Minnesota, and hoping that it won’t be.
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I’ll bet the folks in Chicago and New York are breathing a sigh of relief knowing that their competitors in Duluth have a code limiting the height of their buildings…
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