Division over health law bleeds into Minnesota’s main political parties
June 28, 2012 at 7:00 pm in West Central Tribune
ST. PAUL A U.S. Supreme Court ruling is the law of the land. Until it isn’t.
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Division over health law bleeds into Minnesota’s main political parties
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j.d. that thought is just fine, IF one doesn’t care about the loss of ONEs’ basic American freedom. Freedom of religion. presz did just that to 3,453,784 million Americans. That figure MAY be off a little bit only because there may be American with out a religion and they of course could care less when presz b o stole our freedom from us.
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bb for openeners, vending machines in school houses giving free ‘ night or day!! after pills’. When HE is done dealing and we all get a full hand(read all 5000 pages of the ACA) , then it will be time, either to weep, fold-em, and or lay em face up and then go into detail about the loss of a FREEDOM– . Religion—- thanks only to presz b o . HE get all the credit. HE just loves it, just look at HIS ear to ear grin, even you will pick up on it.
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Carl, I believe this is in some colleges. If you do not use it how does this affect YOUR religious freedom. You are not being forced to use it. So if a rerligious beliueve is not forced on YOU, how can YOURreligious freedom be affected! Carl tthe decision by SCOTUS has to deal with healthcare does it not?
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Carl – a vending machine with “the morning after” pill does not take away anyone’s freedom of religion. Not even one little bit.
Still unclear about Obama taking away your freedom of religion – want to try another explanation?
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I believe the vending machine placed in a Catholic instiution through government intervention would violate quit a few peoples freedom of religion.
Maybe that is where Carl is headed with his comment.
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Leroy – I can understand how that would offend people in regard to their religious beliefs… but the “freedom of religion” is still in place, in a situation such as you described. The freedom to ignore the vending machine – the freedom to engage someone whi is putting money into the machine in a conversation – the freedom to even sit down (or kneel, etc) in front of the machine and pray … all of it still in place. Someone’s religious sensibilities may be offended, but their right to religious freedom is still solidly intact.
I appreciate that you’ve stepped in to try and help carl out here, leroy – but I think you may have handed him a direction to take his arguement, rather than tapped into what he was thinking originally. I asked the question of carl because I really do want to know how he made the leap.
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According to the Bible we are not to tempt each other or entice someone to sin. These vending machines would do just that if placed in the proposed locations. There is no reason to remove the seperation of church and state, it is a clear violation of religious freedom.
The government is over stepping its boundries and needs to discontinue their attacks on Christians. I for one will stand on the side of Jesus.
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I will agree – church and state should be separated. One should have very little to do with the other, in my opinion, beyond establishing respectful boundaries.
In no way am I saying that I approve of putting “morning after” pills into vending machines, at all, anywhere.
I also understand the desire to refrain from contributing to temptation – wanting to be a part of a better environment, one that meets ideals and hopes, one that encourages positive, sound decisions and choices.
I suppose that one’s interpretation of “freedom of religion” – what that means, at it’s core – also has a lot to do with point of view here. I think you and I will approach this differently – and that’s ok. I just don’t see how a vending machine, regardless of what is in it, would interfere… I do, however, see how it may upset or offend.
Just perspective… everyone’s got one… nothing wrong with that.
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b b double DFLer talk. You don’t approve, but you support the Party in thought, word and DEED. PLUS the big apple in you throat. you give THEM lots of money to buy these machines and the PILLS that go into them. what you don’t cover–being so cheap, the rest of us Americans , with our income tax dollars have to pick up the TAb. presz b o and DFLer Gov Dayton see to it that these units are in place. after all, it is a U.S.A. Statute forced on us by only the democrats .many church members do not approve of being taxed for money spent on abortions aka the killing of the most innocent.
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Carl – my opinions on any given subject are not about political affiliation. I do not form an opinion is such a way as to fit in with any party’s stance on a subject. You, carl, are putting me into a dfl box, and that’s not an accurate perception on your part.
Would you like to tell me exactly how it is that I support the party in terms of my thought, word and DEED (as you put it)?
Carl – we can differ in opinion, and it doesn’t have to be anything political. It can simply be something HUMAN.
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To the best of my knowledge vending machines are there to simply vend the products. These devices can easily be modified to work without money being deposited in them. I worked at a place where all of the soda machines and candy machines were stocked and provided to the employees at no charge (of course the company did eventually go under… for a multitude of financial reasons).
But all of that is off topic and if I understand the agreement to use this site is that you must remain on topic.
This ruling will work well for the Republicans. The President placed a tax on the American public when he promised any tax increase would only impact people making $200,000 or more. Now he has a plan that has the potential to affect everyone in the USA. That will play nicely to all the moderates and conservatives that do not like the mandate or new taxes.
And now the President can no longer blame the “conservative” court for bringing down his pet project, that does take away alot of his campaigns talking points. Instead they have to defend or deny the taxing aspects of Obamacare and I’m sure he wasn’t expecting that was he.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Sorry “bac” but I just thought it silly that someone would respond to that comment since it was off topic. Carl must hold a lot of power over some of you to get you to respond to that type of comment. My apologies.
My information does not come from reading the bill but from the words that came out of the Presidents own mouth, and now the SCOTUS clearly stating that it is a tax which obviously means President Obama lied to us. I have also seen video of him clearly stating it was not a tax. It has now been proven to be a tax.
Obamacare will be repealed when the Republicans take over the Senate this year as well as the Presidency and retain the House. A reasonable plan that we can afford will be put into place, one that won’t bankrupt the country.
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Leroy, are you serious? Mitt Romney said it plain as the nose on his face that he would KEEP and UPHOLD the most expensive components of the Patient and Affordable Care Act. He and other Republicans are advocating for the largest cost-drivers in the bill, saying they’d keep that but of course have no way to pay for what they are advocating…Leroy you need to wake up and listen to your own Presidential nominee. You’re embarrassing yourself.
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Now I am confused. People on this site are saying that the Republicans have no plan and now you are saying Republicans do have a plan. I am unaware of any plan that is ready to go on day one but I do know Republicans have been looking at different options, is that what you are speaking of Randy?
I would be interested in seeing more about this, do you have any links that would provide me with more information? Appreciate it Randy.
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Leroy, in Romney’s speech following the decision of SCOTUS last week, he rattled off the components of the Affordable Care Act that he would keep. He cleverly avoided mention of any way to pay for any of it.
I’m not saying you do, and I for one don’t…but others may somehow see that as a “plan”….copy the components of the Affordable Care Act that the public likes but fail to develop any way whatsoever to pay for those components.
Try this link: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/wake-obamacare-victory-romney-camp-licking-wounds-article-1.1104899
and then this one: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/06/29/mitt-romneys-bogus-attack-on-the-affordable-care-act/
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Thank you Randy. I for one feel that the entire Health Care issue should be left until after the election. I do not believe that Romney will kill the whole law and will find ways to pay for it that are at least equal in quality as the Presidents. People are getting kind of tired of it and now that the SCOTUS has determined the mandate is constituional due to it being allowed under Congresses ability to tax there isn’t a whole lot more to talk about right now.
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Leroy, I was partially wrong on Romney. In fact, he’s being very credible and attempting to stay true to his principle of “it’s a mandate/penalty and not a tax”
Very fascinating story: http://www.startribune.com/politics/161164055.html
Romney is agreeing 100% with the minority of SCOTUS in the ruling and saying “it’s a mandate with a penalty” and therefore un-Constitutional. Romney is not changing his tune, but his tune is wholly at odds with what Congressional Republicans are now screaming.
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All true.
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l j — r o likes to think HE knows one hole in the ground , better than another..DFLers are like that. Give the guy a break, and go along with HIM. Wait to hear or read HIS spin after Nov. It will be a dandy, right out of the first page of the DFLers game book. The one which explains to them what is a tax and what isn’t. Even presz b o is at a loss with HIS middle income tax increase caused by HIS obamacare (the middle class that can’t afford INS. will be taxed to death, no matter what Nancy P. preaches in her Sermons..) U.S.A. has not seen the last of obamacare failures. So far presz b o and Nancy P. have only let out or made public about 50 pages of a 5000 page obamcare Statute. IF the U.S.A. is still standing after page 5000 has been made public, it will be some deal.
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Harold, your Presidential candidate Mitt Romney just said he supports all the extra spending in the Affordable Care Act. They were some of the first words out of his mouth after the SCOTUS decision.
What do you think about that? Do you support the spending that goes with it? Or do you oppose what your presidential candidate wants??
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carl, for one thing, it’s a 2000 page document. I’m sure by now, after what, three and a half years?, you should have read at least the first page or so? I’d guess, NO. If you had read at least any of it, you’d see that YOU will benefit from it.
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The no. 1 rule of a democratic government is take care of the people. This bill enables people to get health care. I call that taking care of the people. Who is the goverment? People are the goverment. People take care of each other. There’s lots of things I’m paying for that I don’t want to. I would feel better helping American people than paying tax dollars to a country that hates us and whose no.1 goal is kill Americans.
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The issue is the mandate and how does it get paid for quagmire. If you would like to say double your taxes (or in many cases start having to pay taxes) then great but not everyone is willing to lower their standard of living.
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Like I said, one thing you could do is stop giving billions of dollars to countrys that hate us. Nothing ticks me off more than to see people of a certain country we give money to burning the American flag. I’m not talking food aid.
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You got states going broke, people losing their pensions, people without health care, and they still send money to people that hate us. I’m afraid that what’s going to be the final nail in the coffin would be a war with Iran not healthcare. It’s ridiculous to blame Obama for all of it. Every time you turn around there’s another war and off we go to save the world and the world still hates us. Take care of the American people for once. Bring the troops home.
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Hard to argue with most of what you say. The only comment I have is Obama is President and has been in charge for almost four years. If Bush can be blamed for everything so can Obama since he is the man in charge right now.
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leroy, one more way that this will be payed for is the prediction of adding 4million jobs. That would be 4 million more people employed and paying taxes. Another way that would help would be buy American as often as you can. 75% of the people in Mass. like Romneycare and Obamacare is almost the same thing.
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Here’s a interesting link http://race42012.com/2012/04/14/poll-watch-rasmussen-massachusetts-survey-on-romneycare-and-obamacare
It shows that only 44% of folks in Mass think that Romney care has been a success. The poll is from April 2012.
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/romneycare-facts-and-falsehoods/ has more information you can use to compare the two plans. They are not as much alike as the left is saying.
Looking at various polls I found that most of them show about 62% – 67% approval for Romneycare.
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Leroy, even 44% isn’t that bad cosidering the don’t care/ don’t know crowd. I understand the plan in Mass. is more suited to accomadate the state. The article I saw said 75% but the one you cited is a better one.
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SITED not cited. Duh!
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The number 1 rule in a democracy is to take care of the people??????? Please tell me where in our constitution it says that! Seems to me it says to the effect you have the right to pursue things like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Never have I seen anything I would interpret that the government should take care of us. The government is not some magic entity that has unending resources. We can only help to the point that people are willing to help themselves. We are not a bottomless well of riches, no matter what the DFL thinks. When the money runs out you stop spending, that’s how our government should be approaching helping. However, those who are willing to help themselves should be the first helped, those who only want a handout should be last.
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“Cited”is correct, you were right the first time.
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When is something a tax, that is not called a tax? Answer: when the U.S. Supreme court determines it’s a tax. AND THEY DID, whether you or Obama agree, that was the decision.
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