Despite new census estimates, Grand Forks officials insist city is growing
June 28, 2012 at 9:13 am in Grand Forks Herald
Newly released population estimates from the U. S. Census Bureau suggest Grand Forks and East Grand Forks each lost population between July 1, 2010, and July 1, 2011, but local officials discount the estimates and say they aren’t a matter of great concern. Continue Reading
Its fluctuates both ways every year. GF’s population has been in the 50k brackets for decades. The real story is GF dropping from the 2nd largest city in ND to the 3rd.
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Bismarck has been the second largest city in the state of ND for many many decades.
Bismarck Pop Stats
1880 1,758
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1890 2,186 24.3%
1900 3,319 51.8%
1910 4,913 48.0%
1920 7,122 45.0%
1930 11,090 55.7%
1940 15,496 39.7%
1950 18,541 19.7%
1960 27,670 49.2%
1970 34,703 25.4%
1980 44,485 28.2%
1990 49,256 10.7%
2000 55,532 12.7%
2010 61,272 10.3%
Est. 2011 62,665 2.3%
Grand Forks Pop Stats
1880 1,705
—
1890 4,979 192.0%
1900 7,682 54.3%
1910 12,478 62.4%
1920 14,010 12.3%
1930 17,112 22.1%
1940 20,228 18.2%
1950 26,836 32.7%
1960 34,451 28.4%
1970 39,008 13.2%
1980 43,765 12.2%
1990 49,425 12.9%
2000 49,321 −0.2%
2010 52,838 7.1%
Est. 2011 52,631 −0.4%
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Mav, might want to take a look at that again. GF had a higher pop in the 90′s. That’s the last time I looked at a paper map, which is why I was confused.
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*close to 50k
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Wow, my memory fails me. Looking at a map back in the 90′s, we were the 2nd largest. But not by much.
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Other cities increased population, and Grand Forks decreased, but the numbers are wrong. I think people are in denial.
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I agree its getting to be a small town, people are moving and finding better wages on the other half of the state, it doesnt take much to drive around and count the closed businesses….
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UND pumps out many professional degree’s yet there are absolutely not high tech jobs in this town. That requires a mayor who is at the office more than once a week. The city is well aware of this population decline, hence the reason they spent tax payer money to lure oil companies here. If it works, more power to them.
I’ve lived here all my life and this city has always seen a slow growth pattern. The flood of 97′ didn’t help much either as residents moved elsewhere. Minot will soon move up to the 3rd largest and Grand Forks will fall to the 4th. This city needs to wake up before all the professionals flee.
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Agreed. See my response to Gene
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Houses for sale in my neighborhood in EGF have been sitting on the market for a very long time…the one down the block for almost a year. They used to sell in a couple of months.
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I live in EGF as well….and I have seen the opposite. You cant always go by the real estate signs in the yard as they can stay there for a long time. Checking the MLS listings for EGF shows only 14 properties for sale, which is way lower than I can remember. Same for south Grand Forks MLS listings. Those homes south of Walmart and north of South Middle school are selling quickly and I know someone who moved to 49th Ave S and they said while looking for homes, properties in the 150-250k range were moving briskly and that realtors need more inventory.
Getting to EGF…in my area on the far south end….a house two doors down sold the first day….another house a block over sold after 3 days and another in less than 5 days.
So from my looking at MLS listings region-wide I would counter that officials are corrrect, someone is filling the new homes built and causing the MLS listings to be so much lower than usual. Also apartment buildings being built, someone is moving in them. I know several families from Minot who have moved here after their flood as well.
So we are growing, yes not as fast as Bismarck-Fargo and the west, but we are.
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Thanks Daniel. I appreciate the information. As a homeowner I find it quite valuable.
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Your welcome….I am not involved in real estate or construction, but like to follow things the best I can. So I dont have any insider info just what I see on MLS listings. One thing this year is that Crary which had been building in the Greenway and Riverview sections are there no more…though there are a few lots left. What is left is some of the other lots along 13th St SE off of Bygland which has been slow to build and most of the homes actually have been built as Northland Comm College project homes. They sale well and seem well made. So right now one reason why so few homes on MLS in EGF is lack of new home building with Crary not building now and focusing on GF (Prairewood and Highland Point). I did hear they will return, but took some time to focus on GF side of the river. Golf course building has been quite slow too. So for that reason alone, if you are selling in EGF it is a good time. Of course if a house is poorly done, has issues, or priced too high it still wont sell regardless.
I have noticed the higher end homes in south GF selling pretty well….lowest homes being built by Crary are in the lower 200s with most of the other homes a bit farther south more like mid 200s to lower 300s….so obviously some folks coming in with good money. I know Altru has been hiring lots of doctors in the past year and will continue to do so.
But I personally kind of like the slow but steady growth in housing…doesnt allow things to get to out of hand. But for sure selection for those wanting to buy is quite limited in the 150-250k range as compared to past years on both sides of the river. We built on the far south end EGF near the schools and like it.
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sorry meant 13th St SE off of Rinehart….
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For not being in the industry, you sure know a lot about it.
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All I can say is our house in GFK had an accepted offer in less than a week and through work/acquaintances, etc. we know of many homes in the past year that have sold in a similar time frame. Having followed the market for selling/buying purposes over the past year, I will say that at least in Grand Forks, it is hard finding inventory below $200k. Most of the stagnant stuff seems to be houses at 300k+, but that’s my anecdotal evidence from following listings. Appraisals are backed up a month in this area courtesy to demand. Homes are selling, homes are being built, and interest rates have led to tons of refi.
A few other comments:
I suspect we’ll see GFK fall further behind Bismark, and perhaps see Minot catchup in the future due to the oil boom. You can’t expect to compete with that.
We still have it good compared to my friends in TX, etc. They bought homes around the same we did (2006), and then the housing market really hosed them. Market dropped, and new homes are being built at prices BELOW what they paid. Two families we know were “stuck” in their small starter homes. One decided to take a $30k loss, the other decided to rent their place out and rent a larger home.
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I’ve never understood the ND obsession of equating quantity with quality, whether it be city populations or university enrollments. GF has nothing to attract people. High paying jobs are at a minimum, and are associated with just a couple of industries. Everything else is service, which pays infamously low wages.
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Agreed. I have said more than once that ND is MPLS greatest supplier of educated workers. They need to send us a thank you card.
Until we stop forcing our highly educated children to go somewhere else to make a living, we will simply keep getting older & more ignorant.
I am not being mean. If most go the people with a college degree leave, who stays?
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The ultra-symbolism of GF is that its real claim to fame is UND’s Aviation Program; likely the best in the world. Yet neither the city nor the state even have an aviation industry. Now, stretch that out to just about every other major at UND, and you see why GF is just a brief stay for most students.
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So what is the factory that builds planes then? A hobby industry?
Granted…Other than test pilots they really don’t need pilots, but still….That is aviation isn’t it?
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That is a factory, it doesn’t need people that get the kind of training UND gives.
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I know…I was just saying…You know..To be a pain in the arse…
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No, you brought up a valid point. But as I said below, the expertise needed to put together the light aircraft really has nothing to do with aviation. Over the years, the thousands of Aviation students from UND, many of who never wanted to stay here, might have been mitigated by something that resembled an industry.
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Since I just picked up my MS in Aviation from there I would have to agree. One potential windfall is if we are chosen as a UAV training center.
Along those same lines, one area of aviation worth exploring is UAV maintenance. Drones are proliferating at an amazing rate, but the people who repair them are not.
UND was very very smart to partner with Northland to get an airframe & power plant program for UAV up & running while everyone else was hanging back to see what happens.
If you have a teen to young 20 who does not want college but needs a skill, that would be my first suggestion
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As usual, the dinosaur reporters don’t bother to include the link to the estimates, http://www.census.gov/popest/data/cities/totals/2011/index.html.
BTW, Moorhead grew by 501 to 38,566 (based on 2010 actual population).
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It’s been added. Thanks for the reminder, though the petulance is becoming tiresome.
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Speaking as a former reporter (professional, even), it’s not petulance. It’s amazement that including links in stories is still an issue for newspaper websites.
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We do provide links routinely. I’ve been doing it for many years. I’m just saying that our missing an opportunity now and then doesn’t warrant a smug reference to “dinosaur reporters.”
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Interesting that you feel such a need to keep on this one, which is a common problem with newspaper websites. For example, today’s piece by Patrick Springer on the healthcare law says the source is the Department of Health and Human Services. However, knowing HHS, they always provide a link to more information, but we didn’t get one. Instead of coming back with a petulant statement about smugness (and it was petulance in this instance), this may be something to discuss in your newsroom meetings about providing links for context and comparison. We did it back in the day, and it’s still done, in the newsrooms at KXJB and KVLY.
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Chuck…you should tell Kari Lucin about him. She will delete his comment and scold him. I know…because it happened to me just a couple of days ago. You should also tell her about the Flying Nurse and alwayscorrect because they say mean things to. I know of others but I don’t want to rat on all of them, just the worst offenders. They take this system for granted and don’t seem to care if the site is taken down but I do. Sure I screwed up…but I am now reformed. Thank you Chuck. -tj-
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Aw…ome on TJ….Don’t let them get to you……Like I’ve said before…These boards are for amuzement only and not to be taken seriously…….They really don’t amount to a hill of beans…..On the other hand I have the personallity where I enjoy confronting those who want to confront me, but I know that’s not everyones cup of tea…..But think about it…For the moast part you don’t know them and they don’t know you so all this typing is just a bunch of characters on the internet that in the end really doesn’t do much.
I just have a lot of fun with it, and until a few years ago when I first started on here my reach back to what was happening here when I was on the road was very limited to phone calls back to Forks…..Now I have all kinds of discussions about what’s going on back here while I’m on the road and that sure makes being on the road a lot more enjoyable than before. I for one hope they never shut these down even though I think a few of the reporters who don’t care for the critics (Admittely some get a bit over board) seem to want them to…..But why should they be the only ones having a public say on topics?
Give em hell TJ….I’ll have your back…
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I broke rule #2…my comment was deleted and I was reprimanded. In the same area other comments of the serious nature that were not very nice were left up.
When I asked the M & M about it she said “Just follow the rules, please” as if it wasn’t even debatable. At least she said please.
If I suddenly disappear you will know I pushed the woman too far. As always Tundra…be careful and thank you for having my back.
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Could you imagine how many of us would get kicked off if they started enforcing rule #1? Generally we stay on topic, but there’s a tendency to branch off into other areas….Then again when there’s only two topics on the ten topic boards there’s been times where some of us will just start talking about a different article they never gave a board for (What rebels huh?)
As for the other….Hell….You can poke deep into a persons arguments without ever actually poking the person…..I can respect that No personal Attacks rule though because I’ve been on boards that don’t have that and it becomes Troll city very quickly and there’s no serious discussion that gets very far……Man that gets boring fast……I wish more people would use the WDAZ boards….They get more topics during the times when the Herald concentrates on the big two…
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Well, I think the second part of rule 1 is mostly meant to prevent things like… “Speaking of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes breaking up, -insert screed on climate change/global warming/immigration/abortion/religion/other controversial topic here-.”
Topic drift is a pretty natural thing, by comparison, and I don’t think anybody’s really interested in getting super-strict about that, as long as it’s reasonable and stays civil. (Though to be sure, I’m not the only mod, so YMMV.)
And for the most part people *do* stay civil. When you look at the massive amount of comments on Areavoices, only a tiny, tiny fraction of them are even questionable under the rules we have. And people, when reminded of the rules, generally ease up.
I always tell naysayers to check out the comments on YouTube or Yahoo! for comparison. Yikes.
I happen to think Areavoices folks are pretty awesome.
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It’s good to hear from you again Kari. I didn’t think it would be this soon though. Thank you for your input. -tj-
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Yahoo put there’s back up? That’s one I was referring too, but I haven’t been on there for a few years. They had shut them down and I really wasn’t ionterested in checking again….And “Yikes” just barely describes it….Pretty much a waste of time…
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I always thought they were probably tweens to young twenty somethings because it was basically just pure attack mode to rile people up, and not really to make a point….Real school yard crap…
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I don’t like swearing so I don’t read anything but Area Voices. I may have complained about being moderated but I was lucky to have not been banned six months ago when someone else was.
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You didn’t mention me because I know you secretly agree with everything I say.
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I should have listened to you months ago None. I realize now you were only looking out for my best interests when you scolded me for breaking Rules 1,2,3.
It’s interesting how offering someone a kleenex and a hug or making fun of them for being a dishwasher at the Duluth Denny’s can be so offensive.
In the last week I have had the pleasure of meeting two of the moderators, the lovely Kari and the informative Joe. Both of them were very kind to me.
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“In the last week I have had the pleasure of meeting two of the moderators, the lovely Kari and the informative Joe. Both of them were very kind to me.”
Obsequiousness does not become you, tj.
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Great…now I can add butt-kisser, brown-noser, and apple-licker to the list of names I have been called on here. Thanks for adding to the list Gene.
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I opted for the Latinate word to make it sound more refined.
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I should have listened to you months ago. I realize now you were only looking out for my best interests.
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The EGF-GF area population also fluctuates with the number of civilians and military personnel at the GF Air Force Base.
The loss of the missile wing, B52, etc. really has dropped the population in the area. Refuelers loss, but the UAV is promising.
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Given that ND has been able to avoid base closures as long as it can, while other states have bitten the bullet, wouldn’t be surprised to see a further drop in GF population over the next few years.
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Robert: our bases are simply another example of ND talking out of both sides of their mouth. We say we are for small government & self responsibility yet we are among a handful of states (8 I think) that get more from the Feds than we pay in.
Hardly objective proof of what we say we believe.
Two ND bases may have made sense in 1958, but they are completely unjustifiable now. At the very least one has to go. My guess is that will be GF because Minot has the missiles.
The USAF does not want two bases in ND. They have repeatedly asked to have one or both closed (The missiles can be cared for from Warren in Cheyenne with a local security & maintenance detachment locally. They do not need an entire base’s infrastructure).
The war fighters want to put the money elsewhere but our congressional delegation was too strong. That is no longer the case. One or both are gone
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When my former son-in-laws first hitch was up in the AF, the offered his a bonus, a promorion, and his first choice of reassignment to re-up. The next time, they couldn’t sign his separation papers fast enough.
We live in a completely different era strategically, politically, and technologically. What made GFAFB a necessity back then, makes it an anachronism now. The promise of the UAV is a pipe dream.
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flying nurse, I do agree with you on how much money is being sent to DC and how much more comes back.
That may change somewhat with the prosperity (oil) in ND. With other states economies faltering, our tax payments may look better. The farm subsidies bring in alot of pork into the state.
For the last several years, GFAFB has been on life support. The UAV is probably what is keeping it “open”. I would prefer to see the base closed and given to the UND Aerospace program.
I am sure the UND Aeropspace Program could use the infrastructure (runway, hangars, etc.)
I think the UAV’s are here to stay though. The border wants to use them and we have alot of quiet airspace to test them and train operators, compared to the busy airspace in most other parts of the country.
While it may be ironic that a rural state, like North Dakota may have a world class aerospace program, it does. Look at Las Vegas with its gambling. The only reason that Vegas is even there, is because air conditioning was invented. Before that a tumble weed was blowing across the desert where the streets of Vegas is now at.
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UND was very smart to get in on the ground floor of UAV. Converting GFAFB into a UAV Center of Excellence & moving Northland’s maintenance program there as well as hosting Border Patrol, etc makes a lot of sense.
The Happy Hooligans are quickly becoming the only ANG wing in the US without a flying mission. Given that many of the Preditors flying in Afghanistan are controlled from a series of trailers at Davis Monthan AFB in Tucson, AZ maybe they can get in on that gig
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The UAV decision will be purely political, likely dependent on which senator(s) have the most pull. Remember when Teddy Kennedy got the F16s from Minot to Massachussettes? It’ll be analogous to that.
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Personally…I’m all for it…Less people around means the less people that get in my way or that will bother me when I don’t want to be bothered “Get off my damn lawn you little punks……”
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I’m looking ahead to the days when Riff and Raff leave town. Riff said he would take Raff with him. I hope he doesn’t break his promise to me.
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We all are TJ.
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Sorry TJ I’m staying. You would miss me too much
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Okay….I guess….but you stay on your side of the river. I…of course…will do as I please.
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Oh hell…I guess we’ll have to paint a line at the middle point of the Sorlie then…….Man…This too many people business is getting costly already….
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Fly knows I care about him. We have a love/hate relationship. Sometimes I love to hate him. Other times I hate to love him. It works for us though.
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Don’t we forget that things like an aviation program or any other UND major are part of an industry called education. People come here to be built , i.e. skill building, & leave as a finished product. These are people that wouldn’t have come here in the 1st place if not for the existence of the “knowledge industry” we call UND. When people go to cities with more pleasing recreational options to get an education they may be more likely to stay but they go to those places 1st to get an education. Take a town like Charlottesville, Virginia with Thomas Jeffereson’s U. of Virginia. It doesn’t grow much & is about the size of GF. It has a climate much nicer than GF but it exports brainpower from its 30,000 student college.
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You are absolutely correct Spearman. UND main export is knowledge workers. The difference between UND and UV is the state. Virginia is not getting older and dying on the vine (I discount the oil boom because it is just that, a boom. It will not be here in 10-15 years.). Virginia does not need to keep its highly trained kids because highly trained people from all over the US move there every year.
If ND had a base economy like VA what you say would be true. The difference is we have no knowledge based economy outside of our colleges/universities and a few mid sized businesses.
With telecommunications, there is no reason why we cannot be the next Silicon Valley. We have the educated workforce, the cheap land (in comparison to most big cities) and a crime rate that is almost negligent.
I want to see more of our kids staying home. I want their tax dollars and YUPPIE spending habits here, not MNPLS.
It is a pipe dream I know, but we have to try
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Good points about the diff. between ND & Va. I would add though that each oil well in ND is good for 30 yrs. of life & there will be up to 30,000 producing wells. This is more than a boom. This will change ND forever unless the climate goes south & we literally have to stop burning fossil fuel to save our butts.
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If you are correct (you make a very convincing case), I hope our lawmakers are more proactive than reactive. We are playing catch up on infrastructure but that is a temporary problem. The situation you are describing is nothing less than a change in the locus of control from the eastern half of the state to the west.
Right now the western half of the state is a poor relative to Grand Forks and Fargo. A seismic change like you are describing would have many unintended and unthought of consequences. I hope someone somewhere is thinking about them.
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