OUR OPINION: The NCAA’s strategic — and decisive — retreat
June 24, 2012 at 5:30 pm in Grand Forks Herald
On the issue of university use of tribal nicknames, the NCAA won by losing if ‘losing’ is understood to mean relaxing its original, too-rigid stance. Continue Reading
Sorry for the inconvenience…but this page has been closed to comments due to routine maintenance.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
17 
1
I notice that the Herald has gone back to demanding registration in order to read the stories. I wonder if that is the new publisher’s first official act. I believe she will eventually emulate her mentor at the Forum and eliminate commentary altogether,
Like or Dislike:
17 
6
If all commentary was shut down, only about 10 people would be seriously affected – the same few who seem to feel it an obligation to comment on every fricking story that appears in the paper. After their initial comments, they seem to think it is their sworn duty to run down every other person who comments in opposition to them. Personally I hope it happens (shutdown commentary). Then the gadflys would have to find another outlet to vent their frustrations. If you are offended by this comment, then consider yourself to be one of those few self-appointed ‘experts on everything.’
Like or Dislike:
20 
8
The “experts on everything part” can’t pertain to me becuse last week someone on here told me I was simple minded. Before that I was accused of being ignorant, a dumb white American, and a social misfit.
I put up with the name calling from a few so that I can talk to some of the others who I have developed a friendship with over time. This is where we meet. I’m sorry that we get to be too much at times. Forgive us and please come back again.
Like or Dislike:
15 
4
you could always just mind your own business too.
If you dont like our comments, dont read them.
One does not need to be an expert to have an opinion.
Case in point, we allow you your say in here dont we?
Like or Dislike:
14 
6
Ok…Here’s a quizz for you billin…..There’s a way that none of these comment sections will bother you without them being shut down? Can you guess what it is….Think real hard…It should come to you soner or later….
It’s amazing…There’s another character (Or maybe you) who seem equally anguished over these boards, but just can’t quite figure what to do so the boards wont be such a bother……It’s really quite simple….
Like or Dislike:
11 
2
Most of the people who are on here a lot debate on issues…That’s not running down. That’s voicing opposing views. If you make a viewpoint, then there’s a good chance someone else will express theirs back.
Come on…….This really doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in the greater scope of things….Don’t take it so damn serious. When has any of these boards actually changed anything? That’s how serious these boards are….
Like or Dislike:
12 
2
How about we just play some hockey?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
18 
0
No sh*t.
Like or Dislike:
13 
3
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
16 
30
Another Herald opinion piece full of innacurate statements designed to support their view of the situation.
UND put up a spectacular fight?
More like crying “UNCLE” as soon as the Summit League said they MIGHT hurt UND!
Another falsehood–blaming past UND adminstrations for not working out an agreement with the bands.
Make absolutely no mistake–most all of the fault in that area lies with the current UND administration.
Before that–going all the way back to Starcher–EVERY UND administration reached out to the bands to gauge their feeling on the nickname. Every one!
And at that time, NOT ONE OF THEM had any inkling that a mandate would come down forcing either their or the bands hands on the matter.
Popular rumor has it that a condition of current UND president’s hiring was that he work to drop the name starting immediately. NOT work with the bands to gauge their opinion and perhaps work out some agreement–but work to DROP the name with or without them.
I don’t know that I have seen definitive evidence of that but that is absolutely how the latest administration has acted all along.
There is no doubt in my mind that Tom Clifford would have handled things far differently. What the end result would have been is anyone’s guess–but the issue of whether racism exists or not would have had some public closure.
And if the decision had come down to drop the name due to racism concerns, UND would not have been maintaining the patent and continuing to sell fighting sioux gear while also allowing Sioux cheers and chants and gear worn at games to continue for years afterwords.
Hot debate. What do you think?
22 
28
Tim: I cannot believe you are still going on about closure over the racism issue. God has not been able to solve the racism issue (at least in this world), why do you think Clifford would be able too?
I think it is racist, you don’t. Both of us have listened to all the arguments & neither of us have been swayed.
I consider you & I pretty representative. Some problems are not meant to be solved. That is the definition of a Gordian Knot, & that is what this issue is: a knot that cannot be untied.
Mostly because the people involved do not wish for it to be untied.
Hot debate. What do you think?
14 
23
You and Tim might be representative. He’s part of the 93%. You are with the 7%. You know, the educators, education organizations, civil rights groups, the NCAA, the countless silent Native American university students from all over the U.S.
Like or Dislike:
17 
9
“Popular rumor has it that a condition of current UND president’s hiring was that he work to drop the name starting immediately. NOT work with the bands to gauge their opinion and perhaps work out some agreement–but work to DROP the name with or without them.”
Tim, when Kelly was hired it was with the impression that the nickname issue was settled (the name was gone). He got the short end of the stick in that regard. He was told one thing and another was true.
It was never in his pervue to try and get anyone’s support. He would not have come here is the name was still in play. Go back and read the stories surrounding this time. He was angry to be in the middle of something that was supposedly already settled.
Lambasting him for not taking your approach (no one did so I don’t know why you don’t spread the wealth) is unfair. He was hired to retire the name, not explore the possibilities of keeping it.
UND has not wanted the name for a very long time. The SBHE has not wanted the name for a very long time. Their actions have repeatedly shown this. Why does everyone insist that they were sorry to see it go?
Like or Dislike:
5 
3
People still give a sh-t about this topic?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
22 
2
It’s over people let it die. 2/3 of the state voted to drive a stake through its heart. The Phoenix is dead. It will not come back from the ashes. Let it rest in peace.
You can dissect why the name is gone till the cows come home. It will not change one simple fact: the name is gone. All this controversy has done is forced the name out the back door with its tail between it’s legs. No fanfare, no parades, no speeches; just an embarrassed silence.
Next season people will still yell home of the Sioux, but less & less each game. At first it will be cute, then kind of embarrassing, & finally uncomfortable.
People will search for, & find, a new tradition because sooner or later everyone will realize this is not the Home of the Sioux anymore.
Hot debate. What do you think?
22 
22
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
6 
18
Spearman: when have I ever used a smokescreen to insinuate I believe the logo to be racist? I have said it plainly a few thousand times over the course of these discussions. In case you missed it the first 1000 times: I believe the nickname & logo to be hostile, abusive, & inherently racist.
As for Marx, I am a Liberterian. I barely believe in government. I certainly do not believe in complete government along the Soviet/North Korean/Chinese model.
As you said I believe in the market, which does mean most “traditions” will fall by the wayside. I do not believe in doing something simply because we have always done things that way. That is bad for business & bad for life.
When you spend your life looking in the rear view mirror instead of out the windshield, you inevitably miss the wall you are about to run into.
Like or Dislike:
9 
17
LOL
Like or Dislike:
4 
12
It ain’t over ’til Soderstom says it’s over.
Like or Dislike:
7 
12
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
5 
16
You know what Tim, the guy who wrote this Op Ed piece is right though. If the name was that important to you, if you weren’t part of the crowd that just ‘expected’ the Native American tribes to cow toe to your wishes you would have done something about it before the date of the agreement expired.
Like so many of the Nick Name supporters your voice was never raised once until the date on a binding legal document had passed and all there were left was hail mary attempts to save the name.
I have freely admitted and will continue to say that I voted for the name to go away because the SCHOOL means more to me a logo.
Now lets get back to the schools primary role.. Educating Students.
Like or Dislike:
17 
5
Just curious, but how would keeping the name affect educating the students?
Like or Dislike:
12 
15
Its been discussed ad nauseum before Bob.. Feel free to go back and read.
Like or Dislike:
11 
11
Humor me Mav, I don’t see how a name or anything to do with sports can affect educating students, and isn’t that what a university is supposed to be about, educating students?
Like or Dislike:
13 
12
did anyone notice that the NCAA is being racist itself for banning the names of native american names deemed hostile? that could be a lawsuit in itself. but since i am part irish i feel that the “fighting Irish of Notre Dame” is also racist and put all irish in a bad light. not to mention the idaho vandals are detrimental to those with german heritage. its time those and many more names get banned also.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
That’s pure BS maverick.
I have followed the issue closely for decades, and up until the Summit League decided to press UND UND’s official position was that IT–the University of North Dakota–was working ITSELF with the tribes to resolve the matter.
Then all of a sudden–yes it really was that quick–they reversed course.
This all occurred before many began to pay attention. Long before Uncle Al or other politicians stepped in. Long before any inkling of a statewide vote. All of this came later, and UND along with the SBOHE was kicking and fighting any effort to engage the bands or “do something about it” by then.
There was NOT any honest legitimate effort to do so after the Summit League’s threat.
Any efforts to “do something about it” as you suggest were dropped like a rock right then and there. For athletics reasons.
All of the previous UND administrations that did engage the bands –if they had a crystal ball–could have done more, I’m sure. I find it hard to fault them though.
And there’s extreme irony there. Past UND administrations went to the bands and worked to eliminate any racist intent or use in their use of the nickname. Schools like Florida State basically said hell yes we are using the name in racist fashion, let us pay you for the rights to continue to do so.
Today we can see which approach the NCAA favors. And as a result, we see that it really was never about racist use of nicknames with them at all.
Like or Dislike:
7 
14
Read what I wrote again.. and tell me where the full court press was with the Native American tribes after the agreement was signed before the date of the sanctions was to begin that anything was done by the supporters..
I too have followed this for a long time.. In fact since my sister attended way to many years ago to remember.. THAT time, THOSE situations are not what i was referring to.
Like or Dislike:
9 
0
This topic would die quickly if Tom Dennis would quit doing opinion pieces on it.
Especially since he was one of the people who wanted it to go.
The name has been retired, let it go already.
Like or Dislike:
16 
2
Cap we’re 100% in sync on this topic. Both him and Jacobs…..”Lets stop mentioning the Sioux name” Ya right…They’re the worse junkies around….
Like or Dislike:
10 
7
And the realtion…Like a black comedian said about the foolish use of saying the phrase “The N word” Once said that then the actual word comes to mind so you’ve already basically said it anyway….The same goes with these back door approaches to the name…..Excatly the same…
Like or Dislike:
6 
7
I’m with you, Capt. I’d like to see Mike J & Tom do less of this. But, there was a day when Tom made a very strong argument for keeping the nickname. About five years ago, I sent him an e- mail advocating dropping it (using the hostile & abusive argument). He sent me a respectful reply that was pretty convincing. It didn’t change my mind, but it was the best thing I’ve read on the nickname side.
Like or Dislike:
8 
1
Yes.
Like the trail of tears, or the sand creek massacre, the broken treaties, the lies and betrayals..better forgotten.
Easier to sleep.
Like or Dislike:
7 
11
If hyou’re comment was to me (There’s a way to do it so one knows, but it does appear that it is), then I don’t think you understand my point.
Months back Jackobs declares that they will no longer refer to UND teams as The Fighting Sioux. Then recently after the vote there’s an article from him that we should som how honor the Sioux…To which I’ve said the best way to honor them at this point is to stop putting every story no matter how minute in here over and over. But they’re basically hooked on this whole damn thing so I find it ludicrus that they keep drumming up this name game over and over after insisting that they are all for getting rid of it. That’s how I equate their consistently doing this with the foolish notion that it doesn’t just keep dragging the name up just as saying “The N word” consistently drags up that actual word also. So I say they are just as bad or worse than the very people they’ve railed against for using and wanting to kee The Fighting Sioux. If they’re serious…Then they need to let the damn thing go once and for all…….But they wont….Not for a long long time…
Like or Dislike:
8 
5
Why was this article written? I wonder if Tom Dennis also likes to pick scabs off of wounds.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
16 
0
Could be “buyers remorse.”
Now that you have won the day…you are stuck with the NCAA, a disgraced University….and Berkeley Bob.
oh yeah…and homefield advantage if you ever make a playoff game.
Good choice?
Like or Dislike:
5 
12
Nothing strategic about it. NCAA was faced with a situation, they made a decision and in hindsight, it was the best decision they could have made. As strategic as it may appear, it could have just been simply the wisest decision at the time.
Like or Dislike:
5 
5
I agree with those who think Tom needs to give it a rest. I am sure he has a file full of op ed pieces regarding this fiasco, but it is time to move on.
Lets talk about teen pregnancy (been to the tech recently) or drugs or the high cost of housing; anything but the name and ACS.
Both are dead dead dead
Like or Dislike:
6 
1
Use your heads folks.
How many thousands of people have been and still are reading the little Grand Forks Herald primarily to see what is going on with the nickname issue? How many hundreds if not thousands of extra website hits is the nickname discussion generating for the Herald?
Those #’s translate into sales of revenue.
Like or Dislike:
1 
2
Fine…But don’t make statments like their on the side of righteousness about getting rid of the name and then keep going on about it so the issue doesn’t stop. That’s my complaint. If you’re going to act like you’re standing up for one side of the issue then be consistant about it. Otherwise if you’re not going to let it die…Then you might as well have kept the name that is supposedly such a bad thing….in the first place. They seem to want it both ways…
Like or Dislike:
2 
2
what about all the other “offensive” names? i consider the vandals as one but now the most hainus that puts a whole ethnic group in a bad light is the “Fighting Irish” the Native Americans consider any Indian name offensive so i find any name deals with any-ones ethnicity should be banned as offensive also by the NCAA.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0