Drones at home raise fear of surveillance society
June 19, 2012 at 8:54 am in Grand Forks Herald
Thousands of drones patrolling U.S. skies? Predictions that multitudes of unmanned aircraft could be flying here within a decade are raising the specter of a “surveillance society” in which no home or backyard would be off limits to prying eyes overhead. Law enforcement, oil companies, farmers, real estate agents and many others have seen the technology that was pioneered on battlefields, and they are eager to put it to use. Continue Reading
Where does legitimate police work end and unlawful search and seizure begin? In order to read my mail delivered by the Postal Service the government needs a search warrant. In order to monitor my email they need nothing more than what is already in place. Every piece of email sent or received in the United States is scrutinized for terrorist or illegal activity. Think about it. It is not uncommon for every person in the US to receive 20-200 emails a day; every single one of them is read.
The same with phone service. To tap a land line, the government needs a court order. To monitor my cell phone usage they need nothing more than a written request to my cellular provider. The same with my text messages. There is absolutely no check or balance.
Drones are just another example of the slippery slope. Almost every public spot in London is under camera surveillance and has been for a decade. At first people complained then they became habituated.
The most common argument in favor of these technologies is “If you have nothing to hide you should not care.” That is the most un-American attitude imaginable. The constitution places the burden of proof on the accuser (the government). The sentiment behind that statement and others like it places the burden of proof on the individual.
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Richard Jackson, Revolutionary War era writer
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
31 
11
Let me know when a drone knocks at your door and procedes to conduct search and seizure ops.
Until then, its just a surveillance tool to help catch bad guys while protecting the good guys.
There are at least a hundred other freedoms we are losing that need to be addressed before worrying about a drone flying around overhead.
The drone does nothing that a helicopter doesnt, it just does it cheaper so the avg joe doesnt have to pay for a helicopter and extra fuel.
Hot debate. What do you think?
22 
31
“The constitution places the burden of proof on the accuser (the government). ”
Tell that to the TSA.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
30 
4
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”
Alexander Fraser Tytler
Anyone see parallels here? looks to me like the Govt is positioning itself for the next step in this unfortunate conclusion. Dictatorship.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
25 
10
Can I just make my own tin-foil hat or is there a special store to buy them at?
Hot debate. What do you think?
12 
20
The internet was developed by DARPA, Defense Agency Research Projects Admin. Do we need know any more.
Like or Dislike:
14 
9
But… I thought Al Gore invented the internet?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
26 
8
You, spearman, may not need to know anymore, but I think you may be overreacting. Lots of stuff is developed by government funded research. Does that mean it’s all intended to somehow subjugate US citizens? Sorry, but your tin foil hat has fallen over your eyes.
Like or Dislike:
8 
0
Oh, I disagree–think for a moment about all the government funded research has produced. For instance: safety grooving on highways and runways-is the intent safey or keeping track of where we are driving; MRI developed by research funded by the NSF-really looking for cancer cells or mapping your genetic code for development of robot to take your place; Doppler radar by funding from NCAR–following storms or you and that scariest of all–the highway mile markers. I know from good authority that they are imbedded with directions for the UN troops. Be afraid, very afraid your government is not only telling big whoppers about why they start wars but is using sneaky methods to control your minds.(which really shouldn’t be too hard!)
Like or Dislike:
6 
0
I appreciate your wit, Sandy.
Like or Dislike:
3 
0
GSA.
They are expensive though, they have large parties they have to pay for.
Like or Dislike:
9 
7
Just a thought.
Instead of freaking out and going in every direction with this, why doesnt the Govt put SIZE limitations on what can and cannot be used within our borders.
Lets face it, a Predator or Global Hawk isnt going to spy on anyone without their knowledge.
The Global Hawk flies too high to provide the kind of details one would need to pinpoint an identity.
The Predator is too noisy at low altitudes.
What people fear are the ones the size of a hummingbird that can be in your yard with you and you dont even know it.
if nothing else, it would be a good start and easier to monitor to ensure our freedoms remained intact.
too much good can come from UAV’s to just look at the evil side of them.
Like or Dislike:
11 
17
“Lets face it, a Predator or Global Hawk isnt going to spy on anyone without their knowledge.
The Global Hawk flies too high to provide the kind of details one would need to pinpoint an identity.
The Predator is too noisy at low altitudes.”
With or without knowledge isn’t the point.
Without a warrant based on Bill-of-Rights criteria, the government has no business performing the surveillance AT ALL.
The government has optics that can perform similar surveillance from OUTER SPACE satellites, don’t tell me a drone can’t get equivalent or better resolution at 1/100 the altitude.
Like or Dislike:
21 
8
The drones monitor you only when you are out and about. To claim that you have a right to “invisibility” when you are traveling on highways, hunting, burning roadside ditches, etc. is not at all a “right” in my opinion. Should police have blinders on unless they have a search warrent to determine whether you are speeding? I am ready and willing to have a drone over every highway to detect the jerks that are tailgating me when I am already driving over the speedlimit myself.
Like or Dislike:
3 
2
I don’t like the ones that weave in and out of traffic. Could they wait their turn to pass someone? Oh no…they come up in the right lane and get in front of us just as we are nearing in on the vehicle we are about to pass. Seen when do we drive like that?
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
Lowly credit card companies know you better than any form of gov’t, mother, employer…perhaps even God. I can’t get too excited with remote control birds.
Like or Dislike:
13 
13
On the surface you are correct. That said, those wonderful subterranian electronic snooper computers at the DIA know what they know; without the court order.
As for spies in the sky vs helicopters or a dude across the street with binoculars. You underestimate the optics involved. Additionally, it is not the specifics as much as the potential or thought.
The question is: who is watching the watchers. There used to be process in place to insure civil liberties. Everyone’s panic attack following 9/11 completed a process that began following Vietnam. The Patriot Act took what had been a slow erosion of civil liberties and turned it into a dam break.
KP: I made my own tinfoil hat, but you can buy them.
Remember: the government will never do the right thing without being forced. It is not in its nature to what is right. It is an entity designed to accumulate and maintain power. It is not your friend.
What stands between a democracy and a totalitarian state is the people. That is why the constitution is all about what the government CANNOT do. It says very little about what it can do.
Our job is to make sure the beast is controlled. If we get lazy and fail to do that, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Like or Dislike:
19 
6
The beasts I most fear are those individuals who want to do their dirty deeds while undetected. I have dealt with them for the 60+ years of my life. These are the jerks who are laws unto themselves. They view speedlimit laws, and most other laws, as an infringement upon their personal liberties. I think the drones are a great idea.
Like or Dislike:
3 
3
I suppose George W. is going to take the blame for this drone spying?
Oops! Its Obama that is in office now. Guess George W. can’t be blamed for this.
Hot debate. What do you think?
18 
12
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
9 
20
While I have agreed with much of what Obama has done: repeal DADT, opening more job classifications for women service members, his stance on gay marriage, etc. His failure to eliminate the most egregious parts of the Patriot Act is a black spot on his record.
No President has ever undone new powers given to the Presidency by his/her predecessors. I was sad to see Obama proved no better than those that came before him in this regard
Like or Dislike:
8 
7
Another anti-Constitution criminal in a long and sad line of anti-Constitutional Criminals.
Like or Dislike:
9 
6
I could see using drones in SOME circumstances.
Like searching for missing people in parks, etc?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
19 
0
That is an absolutely appropriate use of drones. I also did not have a problem with the drones keeping an eye on those wingnuts that were in a standoff with the Sheriff. Those are both specific and time limited examples.
I have a problem with the inevitable “trolling” to see what we can find that will take place. We will fly around with our high tech suite of gadgets and see what we can see.
If the immigration fanatics have their way we will soon have a national ID card, something that has been discussed and dismissed many times before. YOUR PAPERS could very well be something your kids or grand kids grow up listening to
Like or Dislike:
14 
5
We’ll see. The Brossart’s are claiming in court that the use of a Predator drone during their standoff was an illegal search. However, they’re also claiming it was a USAF drone, and the military is not tasked with domestic surveillance. If that’s the correct information, they may be right, but if it’s a Department Of Homeland Security drone, does that change the rules. In the end, the Patriot Act has muddied the waters because the technology we’re using now wasn’t in place when they wrote this very vague law.
Like or Dislike:
6 
3
I really doubt this will get anywhere because simular cases have been tried against air survallance from law enforcement helicopters. The court basically states that there is no assumed privacy outdoors in free air space. That was some federal case regardng gowing pot that could only be seen from above…
Like or Dislike:
5 
0
They’ve been using them along the borders for a few years now. I also understand that before long we’ll see (Or not) all sorts and sizes (Down to what would look like a personal model plane) in the air from commercial interests. Obviously the most called for would be non law enforcement security. A few drones could cover customers far better than patrolling cars. Same with law enforcement in general much cheaper and quieter to fly drones instead of helicopoters. Hell….Eventually you’ll be able to have 3D virtual flights over all kinds of places……Then again there’d have to be some protection from stalkers otherwise I could just imagine little spy planes checking ex spouse’s places…..Creepy
I don’t know if we should get too excited about all this at this point. After all…We’ve already basically accepted our lack of privacy almost everywhere we go beause of all the cameras. Also many of you accept being treated like a guilty criminal for the crime of wanting to get from point A to point B by air….So what’s a drone or two used in law enforcement now days any worse than what we’ve already accepted? I think the ship for privacy has sailed a long time ago. Even if we’re not criminals…We can’t expect much privacy once we leave the safety of our own homes…..That’s just the way it is…
Like or Dislike:
9 
0
It really doesnt matter.
There is absolutely nothing you or i can do to sto;p the govt.
They have grown too large and too many people rely on them for their existence.
Its all down hill from here and unfortunately, thats the real truth.
Like or Dislike:
11 
3
Good point, Capt., the irony here is that the suckling’s mother’s milk is their own.
Like or Dislike:
5 
1
I hate cameras period. But this starter long before surveilance cameras became so popular. I feel just becomes someone owns a camera does not give them the right to take my photo without my permission. Also…I don’t remember Google asking me if they could photograph my house and stick it on the internet. Granted they are 31 numbers off on the house number but it still irritates me.
Like or Dislike:
6 
4
Did you hear about the guy in Spain who was wizzing off his deck when one of those Google cars with mounted cameras for street view came by and caught him in the act? He’s trying to get it off because some kid caught it and naturally he’s the number one hit in the neighborhood…..Then again…If you’re wizzing off your deck…You are kind of letting it all hang out in public in the first place…
Like or Dislike:
12 
0
I didn’t see that but I did see one of a woman whizzing in the bushes near a public building. She was wearing granny panties. I don’t know what her problem was. The building had public bathrooms. According to the address Google has for my home we live in a large Lutheran church that is across the street and down the block from us. They could at least get the address right….if you’re going to spend all the money to do it…do it right.
Like or Dislike:
5 
1
On my Ipod my Beat The Traffic app will zero in on the motel about half a block away from me for my address….Not really too sure why. I think the overhead view is from google Earth, but that has my address about four trailers down.
Have you ever done the street view in front of your place? That really freaked me out at first. It’s like I’m standing in the middle of the street looking at my house. Now that I know how it’s done it’s not as startling, but it really had me going the first time around…I thought if they could pull that of from space…Then what can’t they see….Nice to know they are still limited…For now at least…
Like or Dislike:
5 
0
Yes I have. I just checked it out again. It’s just a two bedroom rambler but I haven’t been home in two weeks and it looks like heaven to me.
Like or Dislike:
4 
0
Recently Google was called on the carpet because it was discovered they were pirating open residential internet connections as they drove down the street photographing.
Like or Dislike:
4 
0