by Grand Forks Herald
June 9, 2012 at 7:44 pm in Grand Forks Herald
A ‘yes’ vote on Measure 4, the Fighting Sioux nickname measure, will let UND thrive as a unifying force in North Dakota again. Continue Reading
Tags: 2012 elections, Editorials, Fighting Sioux nickname, measure 4, ND politics, Opinion, updates 28 Comments »
Well said! The only way to resolve this matter and end it is to retire the name in compliance with the vast majority of Native American’s and others demands, and in support of the UND, corresponding with the prevailing social consensus regarding anything racist. When it is retired, any exasperated effort by the Spirit Lake group and Mr Soderstom to continue the ill-fated attempt will be opposed by the overwhelming weight of closure as desired by the vast majority of the population. It will predictably, eventually and shortly dry up and go away because of the lack of interest. No one will care, and no one will spend the money required to try to prolong the tired and waning struggle. Beating a dead horse is a very apt description. Vote YES on Tuesday in support of the UND, and honorably retire the name.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 31 8
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The sky is falling too. I am so tired of all the scare tactics and smoke and mirrors. Of – could, might, maybe –
So if they don’t want our thousands of fans at their venue so they can jack up the price of admission just when we come to town – their loss. On road trips fans of opposing teams show up just to see the FIGHTING SIOUX .
I have been at the final five for years – as usual our fans were there in droves –
It is was a wonderful thing listening to the PA announce your Champions the FIGHTING SIOUX . Believe what you want. I’m not buying into any of the rubbish.
It isn’t just the logo – it is the principle of things as well. This is just wrong.
When you look at all the cars with logos – shirts, hats etc – goes on and on. Just to get rid of it cause I am scared and someone tells me so. I’m not ready to to throw it all in the trash.
Sure it would be easier -that’s mainly it. They don’t care about anything else but easy and money. If the name does go – then what are they going to blame on a failed D2 to D1 transiton for the other sports. You took a successful D2 program (in which you could just hop in your car and travel to most games – even to nebraska – which I did) and turned it on its head – it takes time to regroup – don’t blame the name for any short comings. Maybe we need some new people at the helm.
Maybe the other teams don’t want to schedule cause they don’t want to and are using that as an excuse.
Really, Mr. Okeefe and the rest are as genuine as a 3 dollar bill. Pulling strings to get coaches to be their puppets – convenient but not convincing. It really just sounds like a bunch of whining to me.
I have already voted NO – I hope many more will as well. Maybe those who don’t want it should just except the fact of who we are – Home of the Brave and HOME OF THE FIGHTING SIOUX!!!!!!!!
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 8 19
Terry you sound like one of those uniformed save the nickname at all costs that has been sucking up all of the Sayanythingblog fumes…
Like or Dislike: 13 7
“….teams show up just to see the FIGHTING SIOUX .” Therein lies the fallacy of your thinking. The UND fans come to see the UND Fighting Sioux, not just something called the Fighting Sioux. Its not the Fighting Sioux with 7 national championships…it’s the UND Fighting Sioux, or more specifically, the UND as it shows in the record books. And if the name is dropped, the same fans will still come and see the UND. Ok, without you, it’s 99.9999999%. You also need to understand the difference between “scare tactics” and reality. If you don’t believe the reality, well, thankfully, the majority does and fortunately the day will never come when the UND will see the downside of that reality. There are many many rabid, loyal UND Fighting Sioux fans who thought exactly like you do prior to Jan 1, 1012. Once that date arrived, and the sanctions were in place, all those rabid Fighting Sioux die-hard fans realized that the UND comes first and the name second for the good and growth of the UND. Too bad you don’t support the UND as much as you support the name. I find that unbelievable for someone who is or has been a student at the UND. Maybe you are not in that group.
Like or Dislike: 13 3
How do we “honorably” retire a racist name? Why would we want to retire it honorably?
We should drop it like a broken rubber.
Now that dumping the nickname is popular, you notice that none of the johnny-come-latelys are in favor of dumping the name for the right reason?
This could have been handled “honorably” forty+ years ago. Now it’s too little, too late, and with too much wrong-headed Legislative intrusion. Thanks for that, Al. Now, go play in traffic.
Hot debate. What do you think? 18 15
Comments like that of Schurkey’s make it fairly easy to establish the intellectual capacity of the poster and the relative integrity of its opinion, misguided as it may be. Indeed, the offensive comment deserves a stronger response than simply a “dislike” given not only its objectionable point of view but also its cheap-shock language more commonly used by a teenage male at a sleep over intended to impress his prepubescent friends! It simply pays homage to the old adage: never underestimate the depths to which an ignorant person will stumble in a feeble attempt to express thoughts forcibly. Being ignorant and misguided is no way to go through life!
Like or Dislike: 6 12
In summary…you offended Schurkey for being offensive.
Like or Dislike: 10 4
Article is right on. Great to see the GFH support the YES vote!
Like or Dislike: 17 4
Latest Poll: The YES heavily favored….59% YES to 36% No
Like or Dislike: 8 1
I’m one of the 59%, Vote YES for UND, but I worry that the poll could be off by 4% and that it requires a YES. We tend to vote no on questions we don’t understand or don’t care about. Sure, the 100 people here understand, but I’m worried that, by nature, no gets a lot of votes. Spread the word, Get out and vote!!
Like or Dislike: 12 0
The time to honorably retire the name is past. There simply is too much water under the bridge. Now instead of being retired with parades, speeches, and dragging out old alumni for one last hurrah, the name will go quietly out the back door with its tail between its legs.
That is sad. It could have been done differently. Unfortunately Always and his friends felt their misguided need to thumb their nose at the NCAA was more important than making this something people could look back on fondly.
Now there will be nothing to look back on. It will simply disappear.
Like or Dislike: 11 1
I would be careful not to give certain people any recognition at all. who knows how they will twist that! You may be right about the name disappearing in a unheralded manner but it certainly will be better to retire it because the time was right verses because it was considered something racist, in disgrace. UND can retire the name and know nothing disrespectful was associated with it or the UND’s intentions involving it. It can be a historical icon of which the UND and the tribal nations and Bennett Brien can be proud. It’s just very sad that such an icon got caught up in the national frenzy opposed to the tribal name category as a whole over the years. I have no doubt, Fighting Sioux merchandise will be seen on many occasions and in very many places for a very long time. Let’s hope the UND does set aside an occasion sometime in the future to respectfully honor it’;s retirement as it so richly deserves. Perhaps that date may be Jan 1, 2015, as the new, replacement name/imagery is introduced. The best thing the UND could do is replace it immediately rather than wait over two years. But until something is created to fill in the blank, “Let’s Go _______”, it will be difficult to let it go completely. “Let’s Go North Dakota” just doesn’t have the right rhythm. Maybe “Let’s Go Green!”. That seems to be a popular saying nowadays anyway.
Like or Dislike: 2 3
You are preaching to the choir my friend. I have been one of the few who consider this issue primarily one of race & racism. For me it is definitely right/wrong.
I will take it leaving any way I can get it. I just wish it had happened differently.
Like or Dislike: 9 2
I won’t deny that the heritage/racism argument is valid as championed locally most notably by the SL and the SR tribal councils, respectively. Collectively, tribal symbols as team names have certainly had their fair share of criticism as racist objectivity of a race. In the case of the UND iconic imagery, there is a fair share of honor relating to the heritage of that particular tribe, in my opinion. In simplest terms, it comes down to – the needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few. With the world social order clamoring for the removal of at least tribal race names as team names, the UND will have to join them since they certainly are not beating them. The time is right. But if race/racism is an overwhelming factor, then it should be applied to all races, don’t you think so? It seems its only racism as long as the race gives the issue a voice. In other words, if no one is complaining, it’s not racism, but yet, by the standards set in the argument against tribal names as racist, it is. Squeaky wheel gets the grease!
Like or Dislike: 1 3
“Most of them still love the Fighting Sioux nickname. But all of them now are convinced that keeping it is going to hurt — not help — UND.”
So..let me get this correct.
They “love the name” but….they love the “money”…more than the name…..have I got that right?
Like or Dislike: 6 8
Terry: Scare tactics? Really? Sanctions on UND and its athletic programs are not sanctions….it will be the future if we keep the name. I can say “we” because I am a student there.
coaches on puppet strings? come on. They are losing assistants right and left becuase nobody wants a sanctioned college on their resumes. This isn’t administration pulling the string here, the coaches are realizing the importance of being able to maintain their coaching staff.
Another point regarding the puppet string comment. We have lost out on 2-3 top players in terms of recruiting because of this name issue. How many more do we need to lose? you really think coaches are puppets or do you think they are just trying to move on so they can recruit top athletes?
Someone else at the helm? Once again I have to post this information. Please go archive WDAZ at the time the board hired Dr. Kelley. Watch the news clip because it is said right on camera “Dr. Kelley, you will not have to deal with this nickname issue”. This is by far Kelley’s fault. This issue was strapped to his back when he arrived.
Someone prove to me that sanctions won’t come from the NCAA or other campuses and I will vote “no” today. Someone show me legitimate facts (not just an opinion) that keeping the name won’t destroy the University of ND.
On the same note, here are some facts on why to vote “yes” today.
1. Sanctions from the NCAA
2. All but 2 Legislators have said the name must be retired (some of these guys were in meetings with the NCAA)
3. 2 former Governors have said the name must be retired
4. 3 Hall of Fame UND Athletes have come forward saying retire the nickname
5. Dale Lennon, former UND football coach has come forward saying the nickname issue is already hurting us.
6. Assistant coaches are leaving UND.
7. The loss of 2 top hockey recruits that won’t come because of nickname issues or fear of sanctions if they come here.
the logo and nickname are just that. a nickname. For the sake of the University and its students and its student athletes, please vote “yes” today.
Like or Dislike: 12 1
And here is a reason to vote no, and retain the name.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: 3 14
honor? Really? that is all you have?
Why can’t we honor First Americans in other ways? Why the nickname? How about we honor them through other ways such as through integrated coursework? through ceremonies at the campus? through native paintings/drawings? Through history courses? through teaching our children and grandchildren?
Like or Dislike: 7 2
UND already does that in spades.
Like or Dislike: 0 4
Time to move on! Time for accountability. Recall Uncle Al. It does a body good.
O’Benedict Arnold says:
“To continue down a path after that would be nothing but malicious content toward the University of North Dakota, its student-athletes and its programs,” he said.
This is the message O’Keefe and Kelley should be sending the NCAA…
but alas, they have no honor.
Is this damn thing over YET?
Like or Dislike: 7 1
As discussed in another thread, and alluded to above. When people hear the name “Fighting Sioux” they do not think of the American Indian tribe, they think of UND.
The name has never highlighted anything besides the school. It was not coined to honor anything besides the school.
All of this talk about honoring Native Americans and keeping their accomplishments alive in the collective memory is nonsense.
The name and image were meant to make people think about the school, nothing more, nothing less.
There is no insult to Native Americans by retiring the name because it was never about them to begin with.
That, and as this discussion has shown, most academics and every single major Native American/American Indian group in the country feel that Native Americans are better served by these images disappearing.
All of this honor talk is just a lame excuse for supporters to try and keep their sacred image.
It is about as sincere as a politician shaking your hand, kissing your baby, and telling you they feel your pain.
They don’t and neither do the nickname supporters.
Like or Dislike: 9 3
I just love the idea that anyone can actually retire the controversy……..Ever hear of the war between the north and south? Hell…There’s those in the south that still keep that controversy going…….Maybe this will die down much earlier than that, but you have to wonder….
Like or Dislike: 5 1
We are all originally indigenous. At a time when the planet is dying we need connections to our roots as a species imbedded in a sacred natural worldview. The image of the native in UND athletics is a small but powerful connection to that world. The radical chic attitudes of the scientific elites that inform our common modern attitudes has reinforced the neo liberal capitalist economic system which sees athletics as a business even @ the college level. Yes the NCAA sanctions probably will be used by opposing college recruiters to lure prize blue chip athletes from UND. The rationale to rid UND of the name makes sense as long as the real connection to our common heritage as a species is repressed. The BIG SKY we so desire to be a part of has nothing to do with the real meaning of a “big sky”in our collective indigenous memories. In fact it seems modern culture needs to destroy any vestige of our connection to a world view that has the potential to help us reconnect to what can save the planet from our desires “to consume freely”. Our memories of our tribal past are unacceptable to us as our love for a modern but destructive way of life takes on more influence every day. The “consuming freely” aliens on Saturday Night Live are an accurate caricature of who we have become in place of the noble Sioux we really all are. That natural world we need to recapture is as alien to us as any alien world is. As much as I admire the goals of the American Indian Movement I believe they also have given up on the need to connect to our roots as reflected in the comments made by the Native lawyer @ Standing Rock & Eric Longie et al about the stereotype created by the Sioux name & logo that portrays Natives as something they are not about anymore. If only we could all recognize that it is in fact that ancient image so beautifully described by the logo’s artist who we need to be more of instead of less if we are to survive as a species.
Like or Dislike: 0 7
Well that’s one way to take the wind out of the sail in this whole thing. One question though….When has this whole ordeal ever been all that lofty or intellectual? I guess I sort of seen a lot of these aguments sort of in the same light as those old SLN skits about the tailgators in Shy Town who ended every paragraph with “Da Bears” I must have missed the lofty parts…
Like or Dislike: 5 0
Well, even the Hatfields and the McCoys finally had enough sense to call it off.
I might be wrong…But didn’t one family basically relocate? I have the mini series recorded but haven’t seen it yet. I think getting away from each other was the only way to stop the killing….
Central High here had the “Redskins” when I went there. They had to retire that name some 35 years ago or such…….That didn’t die too easy either…..But in time the biggest sabor shakers get old too…
Like or Dislike: 3 0
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