by Grand Forks Herald
May 19, 2012 at 5:34 pm in Grand Forks Herald
Can’t we all just get along?
Currently, the answer is an emphatic “NO.” Continue Reading
Tags: columns, columnslides, Ryan Bakken, updates 85 Comments »
What de Celle is referring to is generally called North Dakota Nice. Sounds wonderful, but in reality is an extreme form of passive-aggressive behavior. It prohibits someone from looking you in the eye and being forthright. Thus, you may believe you have a great friend, while that person is dissing you to everyone else.
One example is the couple at a restaurant who get lousy food and service. They smile at the waitress, leave a tip, and complain to each other all the way home and for days after.
And it’s not limited to ND. A dance company in the Twin Cities hired a director from New York City. It lasted about a month. Their feelings were hurt because he was upfront with his criticism. Nevermind he was trying to make them better dancers, he didn’t sugarcoat it enough.
So beware of North Dakota Nice, the person smiling at you may well be sliding a knife into your back.
Hot debate. What do you think? 34 20
Have you been out around the east? Especially around the NY area? I’d much rather have ND/MN nice then that consistant “Uptight” Some of those people make everything so intense all day long. What’s a minor situation will be turned into a major highlight…..Man that’s nuts…
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 30 12
I lived in NYC, and yes it was difficult to get used to the in your face attitude. But at least you knew where they stood.
Hot debate. What do you think? 18 14
Gene might have something here, but, I’d suggest that the problem is more complicated than that. On American Idol, Simon Cowell had that brutally honest New York approach, but Phil Jackson was successful with a much nicer style. I think of two areas that have contributed to our lack of nice: family and media. When I’m nice, it’s largely because of the influence of my parents and siblings. When I’m my meanest, I blame being human and not having the daily influence of my childhood family. It’s likely much more difficult for a single parent to do the job of the traditional family unit. Secondly, the media seems to sense that people tend to feed on gossip and the sensational. The popularity of the meanest radio and TV talk shows has many people accepting this approach and has contributed to this deterioration. The symposium is a positive idea and will be helpful, but guess where the people who need it the most will be? Yup, elsewhere.
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Ok…So I’ve been pretty outspoken about my loathing of fox and other severe right wing propaganda outlets….But over time I’ve developed a different outlook. I’m basically putting it back on the citizens themselves for not searching for answers in more outlets. For actually trusting pundits on either side because they are entertainers who depend on ratings so they’re playing to those who want to hear certain messages. If you put all your eggs in the pundit basket then you’re going to end up with a bunch of broken messy eggs all over the basket and that’s not good for much at all. There’s been studies that have proven that those who basically get their news through pundits are basically the least informed, and generally have a lot of mis-information.
There a difference between healthy debate and baiting just to get people worked up. Fortunately even though the boards here can seem to filter a bit too much at times it does a pretty good job in helping to keep it civil. I’ve been on boards where it’s obvious when someone is just baiting people on issues because they’re interested in the game of getting people upset…and not generally about the issue at hand. I’ve seen it on these boards in minor form a couple times and have called them on it. Usually you can tell they’re doing that when they only keep centering around the same thing without any real debate, but just pure agression on something…..That’s baiting.
People who feel strongly about their positions generally have well thought out reasons and are willing to express them. I’ve had a few heated debates on these boards with people who felt strongly about some position and what genearally happens is that along the way we recognize we aren’t going to convience the other person to change his or her mind so we sort of find a truce point where we respectively back away with that “Agree to disagree” attitude…..We need more of that everywhere in politics because it’s not all one way or the other…
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 31 6
Very good point.
I too used to do thast and then i started watching all three of the news networks and the spin was amazing.
A good example of this is the Trayvon Martin case.
MSNBC and Fox restrained themselves from reporting anything except facts (except for the one guy at NBC, but he was fired for his actions) while CNN when full frontal assault on Zimmerman.
Now that the facts are all flowing out, anyone who relied on CNN for their factual reporting is left feeling like they were duped.
All networks will tell you the truth. they just decide which truths they decide to tell you.
and remember, most importantly… Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O’Donnell and Ed Schultz are NOT news reporters.
They preach their opinion on the appropriate news outlet.
What they report to you is always going to be their personal opinion. not factual news.
Listen to them if you want, but i highly recommend you do some research on what any of them say before you start fighting others to the death over the supposed “facts”
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 28 1
Hate to admit it Capt, but for once I agree with you!
The sad reality is that there really isn’t a news program on the TV anymore. To get viewers they all have morphed into versions of Entertainment Tonight. Most compress about 5 minutes of content into 30-40 minutes!
The paradox is that you can often get better US news from the BBC World News web site!
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This forum is an example of the effects of North Dakota Nice. Look at all the posters with screen names. Do they need to hide their true identity in order to be candid?
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I don’t know about others, but I for one do it basically because of some of the visciousness out there. At first I too used my full name but being on the road so much made me wonder if I’d come home to property damaged or worse. Yes we’re MN/ND nice, but using your full name like you do could come back to haunt you. You never know who you might piss off. It just might be someone who isn’t very stable, and there’s some people who take a few words way too seriously. You really should consider re-inventing your on board presence…
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 25 4
I respect your decision to use a pseudonym. But if everyone refrained from identifying themselves out of fear of retribution, where would we be as a society? But you make my point about ND Nice.
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That might be true when it comes to staff on the Herald and other news staff, but you don’t get paid for sticking your neck out on issues….Maybe it’s not a big issue here because of ND/MN nice, but there are people willing to go nut job on someone who goes over some imaginary line they have in their mind…..One especially sensitive area is religion and you and I both have ruffled some feathers there. If I had my name out there still that’s one area I’d be a lot more cautious of. You never know who’s willing to kill for a diety who is noted for being the king of peace…Pretty ironic huh?
Well if whackos shut people up, they’ve won. They won on 9/11; we all now are suspects when we board a plane…even Henry Kissinger, whom the TSA high school droputs didn’t recognize. But then again, you can’t stop a DUI running a stop sign and killing you. But that doesn’t keep me off the road.
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Tundra, you nailed it with regard to religion. There’s a very real chance of retribution if you express a critical view of the orthodoxy in this country. I doubt it’s going to be actual physical harm around here, but careers can suffer, and social effects can be major.
Gene, your points are well taken — but ask yourself why there aren’t a bunch of admitted non-theists in congress. If you don’t already know the answer, check out the opinion polls on how atheists are viewed.
When you confront zealous dogmatists with evidence and reason, and they can’t refute the message, then attacks on the messenger will happen.
I’m no chicken, but I do have a family to think of — so right now the pseudonym remains.
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Gene…I highly doubt that is a photo of you. You have until the end of the day to come up with a real one.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 22 4
Acually that is me. I truly am a ghost.
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You must come from a large family then because you all look quite alike….
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Nah, they’re just wannabes.
i have a lot of opinions.
A lot are not politically correct.
I enjoy being able to have an outlet where i can let my true honest frustrations flow without fearing retribution or backlash in the “real world”
One can not have honest discussion without the ability to express ones true feelings.
I understand people saying that you should be willing to say something in real life if your willing to say it in print but i have to disagree. I and others would rather not having someone who took offense to our opinions showing up on our doorsteps, calling and harassing us, or even worse, losing a job.
Welcome to the real world of political correctness.
While i’m not one to simply look up Gene Dubois and harass you over your views, others might.
Sorry, but its not a risk im willing to take in todays world.
So, you can either sit back and enjoy the free, unfiltered truth (as i see it) flow from my finger tips or i can give you my real name and just tell you what the world wants to hear.
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It’s a dangerous thing to state one’s true feelings around “ND Nice.” One’s livelihood could be at risk. Don’t judge unless you are at the same risk.
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Is this an example of “agree to disagree”: When my wife throws a flower pot at me and leaves the room? Probably why I just prefer to disagree. Captain made a GREAT observation that many tend to forget, “Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O’Donnell and Ed Schultz are NOT news reporters.” Each has their own level of unfairness and narrow-
mindedness. Sadly, even though it’s just entertainment, I think these talking heads are contributing greatly to our overall meanness.
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Generally speaking, the far right seems to hold onto fabrications far longer than the far left. Case in point: the birther issue. Beck is still preaching that Obama was born elsewhere. The far left, for example, Madow, is careful to vet it’s facts and will retract inaccurate information. There tends to be a false equivalency given to opposite sides of the debate. Trying to equate Beck with Madow, for example just doesn’t hold up. The tea party guy from Indiana that beat out Luger said it best when he stated that his definition of bipartisanship was the Democrats agreeing to Republican positions. The right seems to have a greater tendancy to absolutely reject out of hand any opinion not within their own far right agenda. The Democrats while not agreeing with a position, do not necessarily demonize those who hold opposing viewpoints. I see a lot of demonizing going on the the far right camps.
Hot debate. What do you think? 18 12
The right seems to have the same attitude about their take on things as Tony Montana in Scarface….”I always tell the truth…Even when I lie I tell the truth” I wonder if that’s the morning fox mantra?
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C’mon now realist…live up to your name. Realistically, the political environment right now is so dysfunctional that both the far right and the far left are delusional and uncompromising. To suggest the far right is more demonizing is more of the same.
As far as pundits, most are spreading propaganda like crazy. As an independent, I do find The O’Reilly Factor to be pretty informative. He can be an ornary cuss but he typically opens with facts and then expresses his opinion…sometimes of which I disagree. But his guests are top notch – he always has both view points presented – the left and the right.
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Then you’re not paying very close attention…The new severe right wing really doesn’t want a two party system….It’s their way or no way….The new candidate might have said it, but the actions have basically shown that this is their intention. The severe right has nobody with statemenship that’s willing to work towards a compromise on issues.
Anyone who thinks the right and left are on the same level here is either not paying very close attention or buying the right’s propaganda spin that make it look like they are really working it…..When all they’re really doing is undercutting as much as they can to get their way. Not saying there’s not enough problems on the left, but the majority of their efforts to work towards some middle ground on issues just keep getting deep sixed by the right….
Anyone who really wants change needs to recognize the first thing that has to change…..Funding elections….Until we can get a handle on that it’s just going to get far worse before it gets any better…..Now days it comes down to both sides is basically the government that’s been bought by special interests…..Without changing that…We all lose…
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Don’t worry Tundrabeast…neither the far right or the far left will win. Common sense sits somewhere in the middle, as do most Americans. I may be an optimist, but I see good change in the future. People are tired of this gridlock, do nothing Congress. Better times are coming…
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happy, if you are right, then Obama should have no trouble being reelected. He’s been trying to compromise since he was elected, but the Republicans won’t play.
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Really? You think so? Many of the democrats have been willing to compromise, I agree. But I feel like President Obama just kind of sat it out. He was out campaigning full time, it seemed. He wanted Congress to work everything out themselves. I saw very little leadership on his part, which was very disappointing to me. I expected so much more from an inspiring man like Barack Obama.
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Happy camper: I am not sure I agree. As I said in an earlier post only 25% of the eligible electorate, usually the party extremists, vote in primaries. It is the primaries that determine who the candidates will be.
In effect your next President or Senator was chosen by a bunch of party hacks. Laziness has a price
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I find it curious that folks point out the one-sided opinions of the folks you listed…meanwhile…those “portraying” themselves as journalists have the same opinions…they’re just hidden. I’d rather have O’Reilly laying it on the table with his views, and backing with facts, than Tom Brokejaw telling me something thats portrayed as hard news, but loaded with opinion. Lets face it…they are broadcasting opinion, its up to us the consumers to determine whats reality or opinion. Thats the true angle here…and quite honestly, there aren’t a lot of picky consumers of “news” out there. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have this president. He wouldn’t have last two months in his candidacy if he’d have been vetted properly by “journalist”. Instead they marketed his past and capabilities in a way that made him palpable to the country…and here we sit talking about civility. I think if folks focused more on reality and truth than speaking their mind in a civil manner, we’d be in better shape. Hope this doesn’t hurt anyones feelings…
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I’d LMAO if it wasn’t for the fact that you’re actually serious. You think a spin doctor like O’rielly is actually fact based……He’s an entertainer who speaks to his audience pushing the buttons they want pushed…That gives him bigger ratings and a big pay check….JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER PUNDIT ON EITHER SIDE……One should never take anything pundits say as fully truth based……Very few actually do back up everything with facts….
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C’mon folks, let’s be nice now….
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Well the good news is that they found some other sections to the Mayan calander that apparently gives us until sometime after 3000 or maybe 3500 or so….Whew! 21/21/12 was getting prety close….But hey…We have another millenium or so to figure out how to get along…..Pretty cool huh? I wonder how much of that time we’ll need to acomplish that task?
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every second right up til the end…
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Does everyone “get along” in North Korea?
Be careful about what you wish for.
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I don’t know about “In” North Korea, but obviously junior picked up the same nut bag way to rule a country as his old man. I look at North Korea something like an entire country that’s suffering from the Stockholm Syndrome. The entire country has been held captive for so long and ruled by only getting the information that the government allows them to get. So to them they’re actually living Orwell’s 1984. All they know is that the west is an evil enemy, they are either at or near war at all times with the west, and of course they are the ones who are victorious and keeping us from taking them over or wiping them off the face of the earth.
I actually feel sorry for the people of North Korea. They are victims of horrible leadership and are so cut off fromthe outside world that they have no idea what’s going on…..Most that is……I’m sure that slowly there’s glimpses of the real world, but getting that information out to others is probably risking death….China could and should help to work things out with them, but I’m not really sure why they don’t….
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Henry Cabot Lodge invented the border between the N & S. We proceeded to bomb every building in N.K. just 7 yrs. after we dropped 2 atomic bombs on their neighbor. They are half the size of Mn. with 40 million people & all the agri. land in the south yet they have as modern cities as anyplace. You are buying the the propaganda of the pundits you so decry. N.korean leaders may be wacko but who,what, why has driven them to it for the sake of neo-McCarthyism.
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Pretty difficult to buy propaganda from pundits….I don’t listen to. Actually I don’t know a great deal about the country other than bad leadership as evident by their actions, and an article I read a couple years ago about one of the first western journalist allowed access inside. Although whe was extremely limited to her access she was amazed at how there was a general attitude that the west was an enemy at the doorstep waiting to pounce. Kim Young had kept his country thinking they’re in a perpetual state of conflict all these years after we’ve reconnected with former enemies.
I don’t understand that logic other than a need to have complete control over a nation. If North Korea ever decided to actually act like a grown up at the world table instead of a spoiled brat from the kiddies table their country could actually start having a real economy. Hell…They might even be able to use electricity at night (Have you ever seen the satellite pictures of North Korea at night? Total black out….No electricity means no electronic communication…That’s one way to control information)
Apparently you’re more studied about North Korea, but from the little I’ve read I see them as prisoners by their own government…
And we don’t have our people in a perpetual state of fear as a result of 9/11. Why wouldn’t they be in a long term state of fear as a result of the Korean War & subsequent Vietnam War on their doorstep & our nuclear weapons that we have actually used. We created a N. & S. Korea, they didn’t. We occupy their border with 30,000 American troops ready to pounce. Are you seriously thinking they aren’t justified in their behavior?
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When you have a one party state like the US it effects debate negatively i.e. little substance because the parameters of debate are predetermined definitions of acceptable issues. Ideas that are too radical are filtered by the corporate state media. Our type of totalitarianism is much more effective than any previous type because there is an assumption of already existing democracy defined as free enterprise. In Europe you have higher levels of participation by voters because real politically different parties exist. There people are empowered & have more respect for each other because their political differences are in the open.
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I think I agree with most of your second point, but not really sure about all it implies. As to your first point…One major difference is that we still have people actually wanting to do harm to us so the fear is real.
Look….I’m not even going to try to debate you on this because you apparently know the history (Or are a much better at BS then I gave you credit for) Maybe having the DMZ gives the appearence of the Americans consistently ready to attack. I don’t know. Just like I don’t know why now when we have such a strong economic connection with China that China isn’t doing more to act as a go between to try to help bring them up a few decades with most of the rest of the world. Like you said they’re smaller than MN with some 40 million people and a very bad economy. I think it would be in everyones interest to pull them into the 21st century
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We aren’t involved in trying to hurt 3rd world countries i.e. imperialism? How about N.K. pulling us into the 21st century instead of Rove/Norquist/Kingsbury trying to drag us back to the 19th from the 20th since we aren’t yet in the 21st. If we were in the 21st we wouldn’t be engaged in destroying M.E. economies in order to privatize them for the sake of our corporate capital needing places to invest. That is the meaning of the original attempt to destroy Korea by dividing it into 2 zones.
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Ok…I agree to some point with what you’re saying, but damn….next to you I’m feeling like a right winger…..
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Bad feeling , right?
Yeah…Sort of an un-cleansed feeling….
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What bothers me so much is when a person…often a public figure… Is asked what their opinion on a subject they tell it like they see it then, all of a sudden, they are the most evil people in world because they have an opinion not agreeing with someone else. Think about it. No one can be civil because someone else might not have the same view on a point. We are not allowed to have civil disagreements for fear of retaliation.
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Agreed. We have become very binary. Yes/No. Good/Bad. There is no gradiant. It is perfectly possible that an idea might be 60/40 or 70/30.
Our insistence as a society on everything being all good or all bad is very immature; and harmful.
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On another thread I described talking heads as the lowest common denominator & a national support group for knuckle draggers on both sides of the isle. I stand by that sentiment.
Reasoned political discussion means accepting the other side’s view as valid & working at a compromise. We no longer do that.
We have become theocrats. Sharia law is not restricted to Muslims. The reason the 1st Amendment guaranteeing religious freedom was included in the constitution was because as a country we were founded on religious INTOLERENCE. Catholics were outlawed in several of the original colonies ( Where do you think Maryland got its name from? Queen Mary. It was a safe haven for persecuted Catholics). There are a hundred such examples.
It seems people are trying to go back to the good old days: where only those who looked like you, spoke the same language as you, believed as you did, & worshipped the same God as you were allowed a voice in the public square. I wonder how long before someone suggests that owning another human being should be reinstated- provided they don’t look like you or believe what you do of course.
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Wait a minute FN, I know you know this but look at what you just said. The colonies don’t represent the founding of the US. They were colonies & weren’t meant to be anything else for the British. Jefferson read the Koran & Muslim Lit. He understood the need to include Islam in defining religious freedom. Both the Bible & the Koran generated systems of law based on religious precepts. We could say we have always been a theocracy in spite of the attempt to have separation of church & state.
Jefferson thought the world was 6000 yrs. old because the Bible said so. As a Deist he believed Jesus & Mohammed were just prophets & therefore equal.
As far as someone trying to reinstate owning other people that notion never went away in this country where Social Darwinism/Libertarianism/free enterprise is the way the oligarchy & the 1%/5% sees the working class. What does it say when Edina HS students hold up signs at athletic events that say to the opposing teams from less wealthy burbs,”you will work for us”?
I chose Sharia very specifically. I work with a number of people who completely agree with those state laws outlawing any mention of or part of Sharia law. What is scary is one is a retired cop and most have done time in the military. I keep asking them what constitution they swore to uphold when they joined the service?
The US is based on Judeo Christian principles but must never be allowed to devolve into a theocracy. Again, I used that term very intentionally. It was supposed to rile people up.
I am a devout Christian and very conservative in my beliefs (Calvanist for those who care). That said, I am completely against trying to outlaw everything the Bible says is bad and I am psychotically opposed to prayer in school. Why? Who chooses the prayer? School boards are by and large local.
There are several towns in AZ that are 80%-90% Mormon. Are my children expected to recite the Pledge of Allegiance then listen to a passage from the Book of Mormon? I don’t think so.
What about one of the bergs that are predominently Muslim (with Islam being the fastest growing religion in the US, they are becoming more and more common). Same example as above: do you expect me to sit still while my children say the Pledge and then listen to a select reading of the Quaran (I have read it. A fascinating book. In some ways Muslims respect Jesus more than our secular society does)?
Our country has chosen to never tolerate a theocracy. I agree with that. From a personal standpoint that means my religion is not allowed to overly influence the public debate. Many of my evangelical bretheren do not like that. They question my salvation when I fight them over it.
Religious law is bad for a free country. Anybody’s religious law. Theirs or ours.
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Since God is dead & we killed him ( we as Gallileo) we needed to replace him with another god, i.e. Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” AKA capitalism. That is why we have a one party state, the “capitalist party”. We worship the god of productivity/progress/capital accumulation. As a result we are a theocracy but deny it.
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The point is our antagonistic public discourse is functional in that the economic system benefits from the intense ugly debates the public engages in. These serve to divert attention from the moral bankruptcy of Wall Street & create the illusion we have a free society because we can be nasty to each other just as Wall St. behaves nastily toward us. It is no accident that Wall St. is really the US capital just as it was when the 1st capital was located for 1 yr. across the st. from the New York Stock Exchange. We moved it to the swamps of DC to get away from the corruption of Wall St. It didn’t work. Let’s just say our empire’s Vatican is Wall St. & its belief in Adam Smith’s providentially based “invisible hand”. We are a theocracy.
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Is North Korean society your ideal spearman? It seems so.
I don’t believe I said that. Why would I want to live in a place the US destroyed in the Korean War & the we haven’t allowed to recover since? We should as citizens at least understand the history of what our oligarchy/plutocracy/1%-5% has done in our name to places like NK, Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan, Cuba, Iran, East Germany, Soviet Union, Japan, Central & So. American countries, etc., etc.
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The North Korean communist thugs brought it on themselves. MacArthur should have been given a free hand. The Korean war is the first war managed by an incompetent nincompoop in Washington.
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Don’t you mean McCarthy since it sounds like he must be your hero. They’re thugs that brought on bombardment of their country by the US from the other side of the planet. Sounds like the thugs came from the east looking for an empire. Read your history.
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The war was perpetrated by the thug communist Chinese and their surrogates the thug communist North Koreans. They were the aggressors. Joe McCarthy had nothing to do with it but Truman bungled it badly. Douglas MacArthur could have won it if not handcuffed by Truman.
So we split the country in 2 with an arbitrary border & they are the aggressors? Like I said read some history.
Not just Galileo. Throw in Kepler, Tycho Brahe, Copernicus, and those who followed Galileo.
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Spearman, communist North Korea invaded South Korea, not the other way around. So you support a united Korea as long as it’s communist. Read some history spearman, I have.
The North invaded after we split it by creating an arbitrary border. Read the “Hidden History of the Korean War” by I.F. Stone. If the US was split as it was by the seceding of the South in our own Civil War would it not be the same thing as in Korea when we invaded the South to save the Union? IOW, the southern part of Korea seceded under the direction of the US & the northern part tried to reunite the country. You think its OK for us to determine the future of other countries, right?
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Spearman, I understand you want everything that’s wrong in the world to be our fault but it isn’t. Sorry to burst your bubble but someone had to do it.
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No we did the right thing by preventing the South from seceding.
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” Where do you think Maryland got its name from? Queen Mary. It was a safe haven for persecuted Catholics)”
Uh, Maryland was named after the wife of Charles I.
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You are correct. i found my old US History survey text. Maryland was chartered as a haven for persecuted Catholics as I said, but was named after the old dude’s wife. I stand corrected.
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Not once did any Democrat call for a “civil society” when George Bush was president or any other republican president for that matter. Nor did they demand the same for a republican controlled House or Senate. It only matters when their guys are getting the criticism they so richly deserve.
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Brain: the minority party has always called on the majority to act civil, take their views into consideration, and compromise. They forget all that as soon as they regain power.
Go pull the transcripts of the healthcare debates. The Dems enjoyed a veto proof majority so the GOP knew that if they could not get some moderate Democrats to defect they were going to lose.
The Democrats, full of hubris and realizing this was their one and only chance to get insurance reform to pass (Obamacare is not about people’s health, it is about the insurance idustry in the US) overroad 99.5% of the GOP objections.
Now that they no longer have a veto proof majority, the Dems sound like the GOP. “We need to compromise.” “The party of No,” etc.
The wording never changes. Only the party uttering them.
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Flyingnurse: I’m not an expert on the healthcare issue, but I remember the insurance industry having tons of problem with the 2,700 page bill. The AMA, however supported it. People don’t believe this, but the insurance industry has been our watchdog trying to control healthcare costs. For years, state politicians have added costly procedures and practices to policies often times with a high cost/no return result. This healthcare bill continues this tradition. Generally, Republicans wanted the entitled medical profession to re-tool. This law further entitled the problem (medical costs) by forcing billions more to the symptom (health insurance premiums). Hence, Brian’s cheeky response.
The left keeps trying to put lipstick on their ideological pig and hope it sticks but their mantra is just a little slimy.
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brain: Their message isn’t as cliché as you suggest. Many Democrats truly believe that the healthcare bill does more good than harm. Clearly, other Democrats were upset with the bill and voted Republican two years ago because of that one issue. You combine the economic smothering effects of healthcare, EPA and the NTSB, it’s possible that any Republican with a pulse could win in November.
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Alvin: The insurance company wants to control costs not for any altruistic reasons but because that is how they make money. Take in more than you pay out and you make a profit. Remember: financial services are the largest export the US has. Insurance companies make lots of profit. The reason they needed bailed out (a move that was as wrong as too left feet) was not because they did not make enough money, it was because they were greedy. They invested their profits in risky and stupid adventures and lost their back sides.
As for an ideological argument: the GOP keeps trying to paint it as such, but it is not. The question is simple: If healthcare is a business they need to be able to turn away people who cannot pay. As I have said before, the analogy is going through the drive through at McDonalds and they have to feed you because you are hungry.
If it is a right, then it needs to be paid for and everyone has a base level of service. Right now it is those that have paying for those that have not; and since the number of have nots is now larger than the number of haves, it is not working.
It is not ideology, it is math
The reason the insurance companies did not like the healthcare bill was it required them to cover more people. As I explained, they want to cover less. They do not make money paying bills; they make money denying claims. That is how the system works.
Why do you think the term “preexisting condition” was invented. They did not want to pay for your healthcare. That negatively effects the bottom line.
40 million more people paying premiums wasn’t an attraction for insurance companies?
Don’t get me wrong Spear, I am for a modified form of universal coverage; similar to what they have in England. Everyone gets a basic level of coverage paid for by taxes. You want more, or to go to a private hospital: you pay for it yourself
The trouble is 40 million would not be paying premiums. Most would be govt subsidized. We would be right back where we are now, with entitlements bankrupting the nation
No easy solution to this one
The point is the subsidies would be collected by the companies. That’s why they like it.
Remember this topic should include honesty. These public figures make underhanded deals, tell outright lies, sneak around the back doors, all to get their agenda passed. Then when someone tries to call them on it, they cry and say “lets be civil to each other”. Your president of UND is a great example. The most corrupt official we have ever seen, now since he thinks he got his way, he cries lets all be nice to each other – until his next battle begins. Then the gloves come off until he is ready to cry again.
Politics is about power. The study of politics (Political Science) is the study of power. People will do whatever it takes to achieve or stay in power. Literature has always dealt with two primary subjects: love and power. Soap Operas are the same. Love and Power. Like the Bible says: there is nothing new under the sun; no nothing.
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I think it also says “Semper ubi sub ubi.”
Sorry Gene. No Latin for me. I grew up Catholic but I went to the Dark Side and became a Baptist before I learned any of the finer elements of the Catechism; like reading Latin.
S’ok, nurse. It’s a joke based on homonyms.
Hell….I cant’ get to the boards for a couple days and you go Super Jeopardy on here….Oh well…It’s always interestingt to get some history lessons……providing the history is right that is
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Can never tell. It’s always written by the winners. So you have to wait years for the revisionists to come around.
A little off topic, but I guess it does have to do with being civil…..Has anyone noticed the mug shots of these people they’ve charged with crimes lately? I’m not sure when they started putting mug shots with the people being charged (Used to be just names) but I have two thoughts about that. First is the mug shots generally make them look like rough criminals, and in one way that’s what you want to see…..
My second point is….Shouldn’t they hold off the mug shots until there’s a conviction? A person who is charged is just that…Charged but innocent until found guilty by a court. When you have these pictures with the charge it really looks like a done deal…”Ya…He or she is definately guilty” This is bad for the accused both within the community and in case there’s a trial by jury. I know I’d have a difficult time sitting on a jury after looking at some of those mug shots and already thinking they’re guilty. Isn’t this a bit like what used to be called “Yellow Journalism” ? Or at least give that appearance…
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Ryan Bakken’s picture isn’t a mug shot of a criminal.
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Are you sure about that? Looks pretty shifty to me….Good one though
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