Measure 2 proponents say tax is abused
May 11, 2012 at 1:02 am in The Jamestown Sun
There’s history behind the reason Measure 2 is on the June 12 ballot more than the 30,000-plus ballot signatures that put it there.
“The property tax has been in here, in North Dakota, since we became a state, and actually it goes way back to the 13 Colonies,” said Keith Colville, Valley City, N.D. “Nine of those 13 Colonies had property taxes, and back then you paid property taxes and you had to pay to vote.”
Continue Reading
Vote YES on Measure #2!
Hot debate. What do you think?
22 
15
Property owned by churches needs to be taxed.
Like or Dislike:
14 
15
We have colonies in this state that are considered churches who have millions if not billions in income and assets that are not being taxed. What is the definition of a church? Is a church a new mulit-million dollar hogging operation or another couple of million in new farm equipment? We do need separation of church and state but we also need some common sense.
Like or Dislike:
12 
6
what would the fun be in being a politician if you can’t garner political (and financial) favors by giving property tax exemptions to some and not to others?
Like or Dislike:
16 
8
That’s a very good point Tony!
Like or Dislike:
12 
10
The guys who whine about losing local control are the very same guys who increase our assessment, who give away economic development loans that never get repaid and who wave the magic wand that determines who the winners and losers are in the tax exemption/abatement game. We can’t fire them all but we can take away some of their support (our property tax dollars) and power (their lien on our property.
From what I understand, even though methods and levels of taxation are developed by the tax department, it is officals at the local level who decide when and how to tax based on those methods and levels created for their use. The guys who are worried about losing local control will agree there are problems with our taxation, but few will accept his/her part in the favorites game or the waste that takes place at the local level.
We have less population in our tri-county area than there is population in the city of Fargo, yet no single county government in these three county sees the waste of paying for maintaining triplicate county government services instead of merging and having smaller satellite offices around the area. None wants to cede power to the other. On commission made the comment to the affect that “they’re (the other two county boards) are pretty territorial and do things so much differently than us”. My question is what does this matter if it is more cost effective to consolidate? It’s the way it’s going and the old guard needs to realize things are changing and it’s time to get on the bus or go home.
Like or Dislike:
13 
5
Great post jscar. I’m guessing one reason that they don’t want to consolidate is that it would mean a few will lose their cushy government jobs.
Like or Dislike:
13 
6
So you cut out property taxes, but that is made up with income and sales taxes… what is the point and where is the savings? Heck cutting property taxes sounds awesome, but just taking money away from EVERY Community in ND without even an viable idea or plan for replacement besides “Oh the State has money” is ignorant, short sighted and frankly lazy. Hence the saying, “Careful what you wish for”. The ways Communities may come up with to make up for loss of revenue may be worse then it is now, but guess no one dares think about that because the good ole “State” is just going to throw money everywhere. Good Luck with politicians.
Like or Dislike:
8 
14
Not true. Those are valid concerns. Just because I lean towards being pro M2 doesn’t mean I haven’t given thought to the consequences of the measure. No where does it say that lost revenue will not be made up by an increase in some other tax or fee. In fact the measure advocates the collection of taxes by a more evenly distributed method that the current property tax system offers because it is rife with give aways and special treatment as is evidenced by the number of properties that are exempt and the dollar amount of those exemptions that everyone else is paying for.
Measure 2 is not about saving a buck. Measure 2 is about fully owning our homes and property. Think about it. I purchased my home and paid my loan off in full. My home loan lender then sent me the deed to my home. Everything on paper tells me I own my home. Even my property tax statement indicates I am the owner of my home. Yet if I am unable to pay the property tax on the home I alone rightfully own within 3 years it will go on the auction block to the highest bidder. So you have to ask… do any of us really own property? This is what M2 is all about… the right to fully and freely own property. If you owned a store and the neighborhood gang decided it was time to shake you down for protection money but never messed with the owner of the store next door allowing him to keep his money and use it as he saw fit wouldn’t that be wrong in every sense?
Let them tax me because they most certainly are good at ways of doing that. Tax my income. Tax everyone’s income. Tax my clothing, cars, and entertainment. I have a choice on what I purchase. Don’t tax my home. I bought and paid for it with income that had already been taxed once for income tax. Once is enough. When I am old and no longer able to earn the money I am earning now I will still own my home and not have anyone standing at my mailbox every December with their hand out shaking me down for more.
Like or Dislike:
14 
8
The property taxes collected are what is used to maintain the streets you drive on, the clean water you drink, the snow that is pushed off your streets, etcc. All services that the city provides for you. You are paying for those services. If you like, I’m sure your community would gladly stop providing all those since you feel this way. The taxes serve a purpose. If the city doesn’t collect them the state has to come up with it. THE MONEY IS NOT THERE unless the state increases something else to make up the 800+ million. How much do you think the sales tax would have to be increased and the income tax to generate that kind of money. I agree that the property tax issue needs addressing, but M2 does not give the specifics as to how. As for taxing churches, where do they get there money to begin with? THE CHURCH MEMBERS!! Now the members are getting hit twice. Most churches make enough to get by. I don’t believe they should be taxed.
Like or Dislike:
7 
9
I understand that. Another collection system can be managed to acquire funds to maintain those services. I am not opposed to paying for those services. I am opposed to my house being used at the source of that funding.
Like or Dislike:
7 
6
I cannot believe Sen Nething said this,“There’s going to be a tremendous increase in sales tax, probably 20 percent, and a 30 percent increase in income tax just to make up what the difference is. We haven’t gone into those high taxes before.” This statement is based on WHAT? Cory Fong the tax commissioner hasn’t even said anything close to this tax increase. Sen Nething obviously pulled those numbers from thin air. Sen Nething have you even read Measure 2, do you understand it is the legislature who makes all the laws to dictate property tax? The legislators make the laws and then when it is not working or is not fair, Senator Nething acts like he doesn’t understand his job as a lawmaker, he is responsible for knowing and making the laws on property tax, this is why “we” the people have to pass Measure 2 because of long time Senators not reading the law and even giving a “rat’s ass” about how it affects the people of North Dakota. Come on Senator Nething get educated, start by reading Century Code 57 and then read Measure 2. Vote Yes on Measure 2
Like or Dislike:
17 
7
Many similar statements (scare tactics?) that appear to have been scripted because they have become almost standard responses and are being used over and over again across the state.
I do wish the measure had been more specific. I do support the concept but won’t know until I go behind the curtain if I support the upheaval the enactment of this measure will create. There’s a lot of soul searching going on. I’m not afraid of change but I don’t welcome chaos.
Like or Dislike:
6 
7
Politicians in ND know that North Dakotan’s are afraid of change and easily frightened, hence all of the scare tactics. That’s just the M.O. when it comes to situations like this. We saw it with Sunday opening, smoking bans, etc. North Dakota’s fear of change……It’s Legendary!!
Like or Dislike:
15 
7
That truly defines North Dakotans. ha! Most everyone I know is afraid of change. Most everything that was ever wanted took a certain degree of faith and lots of determination. If we stand about wringing our hands afraid of change what does that say about us?
Like or Dislike:
11 
7
machomansavage Measure 2 eliminates property tax and replaces the property tax revenue dollar for dollar with the other taxes we are paying. This is what I am voting for, I am not wishing to have a huge tax cut, I am voting for a way to pay for our local services without using our property to determine how much. Doing NOthing will get you nothing. If you wish for nothing do the NOthing. YesM2.com
Like or Dislike:
16 
7
Pay with what other taxes? Income and Sales? How much of an increase would be needed for these two to generate the lost income from property taxes? Replace 800+ million with an increase in income/sales tax? Someone do the math and tell what those increases need tot be. Yes we need a change, but this is not the way.
Like or Dislike:
6 
7
If M2 is a dead duck June 12, you will not see the KIL people out pressing for change in the property tax system. The status quo will rule. Any attempts to make change will die a long and painful death unless, of course, another group is willing to take the charge. Lord knows Bismark can’t make heads or tails with all the noise of lobbiests & politics and the local level can never have enough $$ coming in to satisfy the appetite.
Like or Dislike:
4 
4