Fargo elementary students disturbed by abortion protest
May 3, 2012 at 3:40 am in Grand Forks Herald
Some Fargo elementary school children were reportedly traumatized Wednesday by seeing graphic posters displayed by anti-abortion protesters at the corner of 25th Street South and 13th Avenue in Fargo. About 50 fourth- and fifth-graders from Clara Barton Hawthorne Elementary were on a bus about 12:30 p.m. coming back from a choir tour, school district Superintendent Rick Buresh said. Continue Reading
“If we’re not comfortable with these images, it should tell us something about what we tolerate in our community,” he said.
I doubt many people are comfortable with images coming out of war zones, but we still tolerate that.
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I’m pro-life and I stand for no abortions. But this is awful. If they wanted North Dakota to be abortion free they just back tracked any work we have done to make it abortion free by doing such disgusting work. SHAME on them!
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We’re certainly not comfortable with babies dying from prematurity, but the far right continues it’s opposition to the health care bill which would significantly reduce infant mortality because of prematurity. One of the main reasons for premature infant death is lack of prenatal care and that would be almost eliminated with increased health coverage. But then, according to the right-to-life folks, the minute you’re born your on your own. Hypocrisy.
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Most of that debt stemmed from the politicians who preceded Obama — and the health care model currently labeled “Obamacare” was a great republican idea when Romney was responsible for it.
Apart from that, if you really are against “socialized” insurance plans — go whine about crop insurance.
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Justasec: all political parties have had their fair share of lending to the national debt. But I contend that Republican is not synonymous with Conservative. Who had control of congress when the “politicians that prededed Obama” contributed to the mess he’s in? Romney care was a failure, and isn’t supported by most conservatives I know. But thanks for bringing that up…if it failed, why are we trying it again on a larger scale?
As far as crop insurance, sit down for this one, I’m from a farming family and have family that still farms. Guess what? I’m against crop insurance too. It’s nothing but an opportunity for fraud. Farmers know they can use the system to get rich on the back of the taxpayer. A few ruin it for many. Another government program that is a failure.
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Whoo: Actually, Romneycare is working very well in Massachusetts and a huge majority of people there approve of it, so I don’t get where you find your information that it is a failure.
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Heck yeah! This has nothing to do with why 4th and 5th grade students are disturbed by graphic images of aborted fetuses but why not? Let’s add the unreliability of zombies to our rant. Where are all the zombies? The only time they come out is during Halloween, and then it’s all negative press about how they’re gonna turn us normal folks into zombies.
What needs to happen is a good zombie fest, one that is not fettered by government intrusion and bureaucrats treading on my rights to zombie-out. Stars, Stripes, and zombies. Stay out of our way unidentified, generic government person! This is America!
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Small children dont either. You just dont do that to kids, and they did. Now everything we have done in north dakota to help stop abortion is set back by 5 years because of idiots.
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Especially those 4th and 5th graders. They really need to grow up and act their age.
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It’s the Supreme Court who said it was OK. If you don’t think it is, then don’t have one.
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Small children dont either. Now everything we have done in north dakota to help stop abortion is set back by 5 years because of idiots.
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The supreme court said it was ok based on science how many years ago? Science has now proven that unborn human beings feel pain. It’s sad that animals get more protection that human life in our country. The fact that you can literally deliver the legs and torso of a baby, pierce its skull and suck the brains out in this country (partial birth abortion) is disgusting…and it’s legal.
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The science SCOTUS used most recently was all the way back in 2007 in Ganzales v. Carhart that outlawed partial-birth abortions under the Partial-Birth Abortion Act of 2003. 2007 is so 2000 and late, but I guess the “science” those “physicians” use is not too much more advanced than it is in futuristic 2012.
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The real question here is.. I thought protestors in Fargo had to notify authorities where they were protesting.. Why was this allowed to happen so close to a school? This intersection is within two blocks of south high..
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Good someone bit..
You can’t have it both ways.. If we are to protect our children from objectionable material it needs to be all objectionable material.. Not just what fits the religious rights agenda.
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I know. 4th and 5th graders who aren’t puking at what they’re seeing aren’t learning. We need to indoctrinate these kids about ugly adult things ASAP. Next step, show graphic video of aborted fetuses to 3rd and 2nd graders. Serves them right for being toddlers and not understanding what adults care about. If they’re old enough to be, they’re old enough to see.
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Exactly. There’s always more kids need to see at an earlier age. I know a lot of kids see alcohol commercials, even at the age of 4-5 years old. We should give them a reality check by making them see a Hells Angels gang run over pet rabbits. It doesn’t happen often, but some pet rabbits have been run over by drunk Hells Angels gangs so kids at the age of 4-5 years old need to see the reality of being drunk. Wanna drink instead of swinging on the monkey bars? Fine, but the reality is you might end up being a Hells Angel and run over bunnies.
I’m with you. If they’re old enough to be, they’re old enough to see.
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Right! They should protest 10 miles off any public road where a school bus can’t happen to pass by.
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See I knew you would understand.
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I’ve never heard of anybody who is “pro abortion” — but I know many who want it to be legal. All of those folks also want to take all reasonable steps to minimize the need for abortion — such as comprehensive sex education, provision of contraception, ensuring women have full reproductive health rights/services, etc. Unfortunately, many so called “right to life” activists are against all of those — thus ensuring that abortions are more likely!
Many in the USA are not aware that the United Nations General Assembly adopted an international convention — The Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) in 1979. Described as an international bill of rights for women, CEDAW came into force in 1981. Pretty much every country in the world has signed and ratified CEDAW except seven member states and one non-member state. Six of the seven UN member states that have not ratified or acceded to the convention are Iran, Palau, Somalia, Sudan, South Sudan, and Tonga. The non-member state is Vatican City.
The UNITED STATES is the only developed nation that has NOT ratified the CEDAW — most likely because it says women have reproductive rights.
In other words, the USA has isolated itself, along with countries like Iran, Sudan, and Somalia as regarding women as something akin to farmyard breeding stock.
Frankly, until that international embarrassment is corrected, these protesters should take a hike!
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… and the religious right it making the situation worse. Spin it anyway you like, but that’s the reality.
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Over 90% of Planned Parenthood’s activity is health care for women, not abortions. Not that you care, but let’s keep this honest anyway for the rest of us.
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Pregnancy and childbirth has been proven to harm women (and men) emotionally and physically, and the incidence of those complications is much higher than those from abortion.
Nice of you to care about women enough to pay lip service here, but not enough to call for an end to the sidewalk bullying.
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My theory is that some people are failed abortions. Thanks for proving the point, Whoo.
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I love how the right in the U.S. look to science when providing healthcare for men but the BIBLE to treat a woman! Let’s just stick to science so we don’t fall deeper into the past like they want us to (all the way back to biblical times, seriously).
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That post made absolutely zero sense.
How is opposing the killing of an unborn, yet developed, child “biblical”?
i personally find it to be an ethical issue.
If you dont want a child, take the precautions prior to having sex, dont wait until afterwards and then just kill the living being thats growing inside.
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Not everyone has the education (since the recent push for abstinence-only is less effective) or the resources (birth control and condoms aren’t free). Also, there are things like rape, addiction and poverty; not everyone lives in a middle-class city like Fargo (even though I’m not too naive to know these things don’t happen in Fargo). And to think harassing women visiting clinics for a variety of health reasons is going to stop any abortions is a complete joke.
They should be in the high schools handing out condoms to the guys, not traumatizing elementary students. What a great way to spread their message in our community.
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… well, it made some sense since the bible is clearly anti-women, and it’s full of murder and mayhem. For those who would like the details pertinent to this issue, the FFRF has a great summary:
http://ffrf.org/publications/nontracts/What-Does-The-Bible-Say-About-Abortion/
The loving god of the bible certainly didn’t “passover” his opportunity to show his love of children!
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One thing people don’t realize when they start pigeonholing themselves into being pro-life or pro-choice is that abortion will always be legal. SCOTUS has said on multiple occasions that abortion falls under strict scrutiny, the highest standard the Court makes for individual rights. The politicians touting their credentials could care less about this issue, they just want you in the booth. The people who devote their lives to this issue have issues themselves.
“Man I hope that lady I don’t know doesn’t have that abortion in that state I’m not from!” If this is what keeps you up at night, then I take my hat off to you because I have way bigger problems to deal with.
My idea, put all these pro-lifers and pro-choicers in a big cage with nothing but beer and PCP; put 24 hour cable service on and watch the fun anytime you want. Budweiser would sponsor that in no time. At least my solution would be entertaining.
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Abortion should be legal.
However, it should not be covered by medical insurance.
If people are going to treat abortions just like condoms, then why should the rest of America pay?
People like to toss out the old stuff like “visctims of rape, incest, or to save the womans life”
Thats exactly why i feel they should be legal.
However, lets be realistic, over 90% of all abortions in this nation are from simple casual sex encounters after a night of heavy drinking.
I have zero desire to regulate or tell anyone how to live, but please show the same respect back by using some common sense.
A condom is better than killing an unborn child. simple as that.
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“Man I hope that lady I don’t know doesn’t have that abortion in that state I’m not from!”
Love it!!!! I know I am not worried about every stranger out there and whether or not they are conforming to my beliefs. Some things the government shouldn’t be involved in…like health care decisions, who we marry, etc. People keep saying they want less “government” yet want laws to dictate the most personal areas of our lives.
Wisconsin is messed up in a lot of ways, they should keep their crap to themselves. Our children don’t need to be exposed….
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It’s mournfully surprising how people can just go through an entire day without ever thinking they’re pro-choice or pro-life. It’s amazing how people, like me for instance, just live life without ever worrying about this debate that has become the political wet dream.
Somehow we get through it all… Somehow.
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Also, I think Social Services should be investigating why the children on this “tour” aren’t in school! Poor kids are getting brainwashed.
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Ummm…they were on a school related activity…choir performances, I believe. Didn’t you ever get out of classes for things? I know I did…museums, performances (like them), courthouse, volunteer services, even traveling to get to a sporting event.
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He is talking about the children of the picketing individuals. Can’t tell me that holding a picket sign is home schooling.
Also to note one of the groups ‘lost’ one of their children yesterday around 4:20pm near island park in Fargo.. Yep great parents there.. Can’t even keep track of their children.
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Typical. Too busy worrying about my hypothetical fetus to care about an actual, living child.
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Ah, fetuses are hypothethical now. That’s a new one. Step out of the debate moron.
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Denise, I think Jack is referring to the kids being dragged around the country showing these awful posters in different towns.
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So certain interest groups want to reserve the right to display graphic images of abortion for information’s sake? Fair enough, but the following graphic images should also be allowed for information’s sake:
-Graphic images of people using and enjoying birth control correctly.
-Graphic images of people enjoying sex acts that are low-risk for pregnancy, including homosexual acts which, as far as I know, have a zero percent chance of resulting in pregnancy.
-Graphic images of cancer patients who are dying because they weren’t able to start radiation or chemotherapy treatment due to being pregnant.
-Graphic images of smart and talented women who are relegated to two part-time jobs and single motherhood instead of attending graduate school.
-Graphic images of what happens to women who are denied the medication they need due to being pregnant.
-Graphic displays of statistics on how pregnancy, childbirth, and/or being the parent of an unwanted child negatively impacts one’s career, life options, happiness, relationships, mental health, sex life, and finances.
-Graphic images of botched amateur abortions.
-Graphic images of children living in squalid group homes, especially since those crying foul over abortion are invariably the same people who also seek to prevent foster or adoptive kids from being raised — God forbid — by two mommies or two daddies.
-Graphic images of women dying in childbirth as well as all of the various injuries and deformities that result from childbirth, such as episiotomies, hemmorhages, and fistulas.
…and so on. It’s only fair. You know, for information’s sake.
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Do some research…”the pill” causes more cancer than pregancy prevents treatment for. Furthermore, many cancers can be treated while the woman is pregnant. Anybody ever ask yourself why it seems infertility, breast and cervical cancers are so much more prevalent now, than they were before. When women realize what the sexual revolution has done to their gender, and how drug companies have hidden the side effects of the birth control pill, maybe they’d realize that they aren’t better off. Pregnancy is not a disease. Other than in the case of rape or incest, pregancy is ultimately a product of a choice. All choices have consequences, good and bad, intended and unintended.
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Abortion is ugly. I expect the kids have seen worse on cable TV. When we protest about that we are told that we are too sensitive.
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And I thought picketing would be embarrassing. This is beyond that.
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On one hand….At least there’s several young people who have learned the hard way that these nut bags are not what they ever want to be associated with….Hopefully that lesson will stick with them….On the other hand….Lets face it…We’re a very protected society…Unlike many places around the globe we don’t see death and gore on a weekly or even daily bases so images like this does seem extreme….Hell…Most people have no idea what the slaughter process of the meat they cook looks like so we’re very protected……I’m just saying it’s all relivant…..These kids totally freak out, but there’s many places in the world (You know…That world with sever epoverty spread all over by the billions of people vieing for the same limited resources….But it’s great to keep shoving them out…Until once they get here that is…Then what life?) Even in the states where kids see death all around them who’d probably not even notice these nut bags…
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I probably should have stayed on topic, but it just occured to me at the time that these kids are so easily traumatized because of the protective society we live in….Many places around the world (Including America) childern aren’t so insolated from graphic horror around where they live so a few ugly pictures wouldn’t be as tramatic. That’s all I was saying….But apparently not very well…
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As for “Right To Lifers” Not really many of them……Most who call themselves that are really just Right to their idea of life……Because life isn’t just popping out and either winning the lottery or not. Because in a lottery you might not win, but it’s not going to effect yhour life….In forced birth some of those lives become absolute horror shows of one proportion or another, and many of the good folk who insist that each unwanted pregnancy be brought to term don’t really seem to be too interested in doing much to assure there’s help out there for the people who need the most help….How many are willing to provide health care for the poorest of the poor, how about day care for those poor single parents who have to work minimal wage jobs after dropping out of high school, how about enough money for social services to have enough case managers to work their regions, and so much more. If you say your “Pro Life” but end that concern at the first breath, then you’re not pro life at all…Just someone who wants their beliefs enforced on everyone…….
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One of the reasons I am against abortion, is that older men impregnate teenage girls and use abortion to cover up the rape.
By having the teenage girl get an abortion, it is “getting rid of’ the evidence (the unborn baby).
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Isn’t this the same whacked out church that protests at kia soldier funerals?
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I don’t think so…Their speil is anti gay….Somehow anything bad like someone getting killed in a war is a result of their diety (Whatever those severly brain damaged individuals might consider it to be) punishing humans for allowing gays to be open about their sexuality instead of back in the closet…..Generally that much hatred seems to come out of repressed homosexual feelings……Kind of makes you wonder about the old amn who’s the main influence there…..Must be some very deep and very dark closet in that little mind….
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I am a person who would like to see the end of abortion in the United States. I do not, however, believe these types of protests are the way to make that happen. In fact, in all reality, the chances of abortion becoming illegal in this country is slim to none. I believe the best way to reduce/eliminate abortions is to promote safe sex, information on adoption and ALL the options available to women. Moms who chose life need to tell their stories to young, vulnerable women. Disgusting pictures and graphic public demonstrations are not helpful to the cause!
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Can someone explain to me the logical justification for bringing more potentially unwanted children into the world when a) there are over 100,000 children in the US currently waiting to be adopted and b) over 16 million children live in poverty in the US? Why should we bring more children into the world when there are already many waiting to be adopted and so many of the ones currently alive live in poverty?
Citations for above numbers here:
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/stats_research/afcars/waiting2009.pdf
http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/#5
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
FINALLY someone speaks the truth: Overpopulation is THE NUMBER ONE problem the world is facing.
EVERY other issue–scarce resources, pollution, economic problems, wildlife concerns, Global Warming…the list goes on and on…is made much worse by the simple fact that there are FAR TOO MANY HUMANS on this planet.
We are NOT an endangered species. There are better ways to keep our numbers down than abortion–but–abortion is better than birthing hundreds of thousands of additional and unwanted people. I would prefer that abortion was safe, legal, and rare; and that there was simply no conception without the desire and economic base to have children. Unfortunately, this is the real world and we need a practical solution to massive overpopulation.
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Happy Friday to you too happycamper! Like you, I’d like to see the need for abortions minimized by good educational and reproductive health programs. However, I’ll disagree about federal funding. I would have been quite happy for my taxpayer dollars to have subsidized the abortion that saved Karen Santorum’s life.
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Good point. Because it has become almost impossible for hospitals to approve any kind of an abortion in their hospitals, Planned Parenthood has become the point of last resort when women have massive complications with a pregnancy. A relative who was carrying a dying baby needed to go to Planned Parenthood just to be able to get the help she needed when the baby finally died in utero. Nobody wants to get an abortion. Most are the result of things going terribly wrong.
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I respect your opinion, but I think you’re being a little disingenuous, justasec. If terminating a fetus will save a mother’s life, chances are it’s in a medical facility and “abortion” probably isn’t the appropriate term. And, really, how many cases of “life saving abortions” are there in a years time in the US? A handful?? I will listen to debate from the pro choice side but that argument doesn’t hold water with me.
For clarification, I don’t believe in using federal taxpayer dollars to help pay for voluntary, non-lifesaving abortion procedures.
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What I’m saying is I don’t believe Planned Parenthood performs a lot of life-saving pregnancy terminations. What else ya got?
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An abortion is an abortion whether it takes place in a medical facility (like a planned parenthood clinic or a hospital) or in an alley. An abortion is an abortion whether it is performed because someone just doesn’t want to be pregnant or because the condition of being pregnant will kill the mother. The reasons for the abortion are different, but it is still an abortion. Another term used for a miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. All are abortions.
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thompsonreader, that is your opinion that they are all equivalent. But not everyone feels that way. For example, the data that I have read says that about 52% of Americans disapprove of abortion in general, but a whopping 84% believe late term abortions should be illegal. Many people make distinctions between all the different situations and different procedures. I’m not saying your wrong…it’s your opinion. My point above to justasec was just that the “saving mother’s lives” as a reason to federally fund abortion is baloney.
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In addition to Happycamper’s opinions, there’s another procedure that can be used to save both lives (assuming the fetus is beyond 20 weeks gestation), it’s called a C-section. It’s easy to go to “abortion in the case of rape or incest, and abortion to save the mother’s life. I don’t know the figures, but I’m guessing those make up a tiny fraction of the total abortions, which are abortions “to save a woman’s quality of life”. There’s not many medical situations in which it’s in the mother’s best interest to prematurely dilate her cervix and/or force labor to save her life. It’s a clever spin that makes Pro-Lifers sound ruthless and uncaring, but it’s not based in fact.
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Please cite your source that this is “balony”. We had a relative who ended up needing this help to live herself.
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I don’t know the circumstances of your relative’s situation, but was it then covered under her health insurance as a medically necessary procedure? If it was medically necessary to terminate her fetus to save her life…then she didn’t need to go to Planned Parenthood or another federally (partially) funded abortion clinic to have the procedure. My point is that while there may be a some cases of medically necessary (for the mother’s life) abortions…it’s not the reason we have abortion clinics in this country.
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I do not at all think that they are all equivelant. I think some people think that just because there is what they believe is a “good” reason for an abortion, that it isn’t an abortion.
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You mean when a baby dies before it can be born?
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What? It’s true! They had to have a national “go make a baby day” and encouraged people to go home and conceive. That’s better than the forced sterilization and abortion in China though…but Clinton and Geithner wouldn’t want to stand up to China on that little problem, would they?
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This was significantly less horrifying and disturbing then the occupy protests.
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Most white to lifers are just that….middle class white Americans who have never been anywhere to experience the real horror show that day to day living can be. Many seem to asume that “Life” is basically fashioned out of everything they’ve experienced so therefore life is a positive thing for everyone. There’s an assumption that an unwanted child will by some grace of some diety be granted a fair chance from his or her first breath…….Wrong……When you force full term you force many to come into a world of hurt either from just primary struggles with poverty, or actual extreme horror stories of severe physical, mental, and/or sexual abuse. You can’t dismiss the fact that forcing full term does force many of those births to arrive into some sort of horror story…….Personally the real right to life has to be with the childern who are here and need help….Where’s all that concern for their lives?
Charlie Manson was a result of forced term and after a life of foster homesw and government institutions (And eventually prisons) He turned into the killer we know today……Funny how when he was on death row there wasn’t right to lifers out there yelling to save the full termers life…..Why not? Was it only important to make sure he got here so he could be shaped into the killer he became after aquiring survivor skills from his environments? If you Whie to lifers truely care about those lives, then get involved with things that help the unwanted childern who are here already….
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It took a lot longer for the race baiting to start. Minorities are unfortunately a large percent of the abortion business. I guess if we’re racist, we should be encouraging abortion. And for every Charles Manson forced full-term product that turned out bad, I’m willing to bet there’s a million that turned out just fine. Why is it that people act like getting pregnant is like being diagnosed with cancer? Just because you don’t think you’re ready for a baby right now, or too young, or want to focus on your career, or don’t think you can afford it, doesn’t give you, in my opinion, the right to end the babies life. If getting pregnant is problematic, maybe you should try avoid getting pregnant. And don’t start coming at me with contraception fails, rape, incest, blah blah blah. The abortion business is 99% people who made bad decisions and would rather end the life of the soul that was created than be inconvenienced. And if abortion was a simple complication free (physically and psychologically), we wouldn’t need things like Rachel’s Vineyard to counsel these poor women (and men) who’ve regretted the decision for the rest of their lives.
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Hmmm…I don’t understand your assumption that people who are anti-abortion don’t care about children living in poverty and troubled homes?? To make a broad based statement like that is silly. And the “white to lifers” phrase (way to bring race into it) is also baseless and ignorant. People of Hispanic race are overwhelmingly pro-life.
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Perhaps the racial aspect wasn’t quite right, but I was going by what I’ve generally seen…..As for the rest…..Many of the same right to lifers balk at programs for the poor…..But my deeper point is that few if any of you have actually seen real poverty much less experienced it….As dire as poverty can get in this country it’s pale compared to poverty in many of the places in the world…..If you ever seen starving or near starving people struggling to eek out a way to stay alive daily you might be a little less gung ho at insisting babies have to be brought into that hell when an aborted fetus would be far less consequence in many instances……Most of you lifers seem to just base your principles on life as you know it….and that’s not enough…..That’s life in a bubble…
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I understand and appreciate your point, tundrabeast. Yes, you are correct, I have never wondered where my next meal is going to come from. But I have also experienced the joy of being a mom and I know that babies are never a mistake.
Like I said, I actually don’t ever believe the US will make abortion illegal. My point is just that there are other options for unwanted pregnancies and I know a handful of wonderful couples that are waiting for beautiful babies to love and raise as their own.
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You’re right about the other options, but that logic doesn’t actually come into play as often as you might think….Especially with teenagers. They often only see two possibilities and if they go to term they often try to raise them even as a single parent. Most often that does mean they no longer continue school and stastically speaking it usually doesn’t bode well financially….Now that doesn’t mean those conditions will always happen if they have other strong family support of course. None the less those alternative options often don’t seem like options to many of them. My concern is with the ones who not only do not want a child, but do not have the mental or financial abilities to actually take on the job. Those are the unexpected pregnancies that that concern me because those are the ones that can be a “cruel and unusual” punishment sentence for a new born who only did the crime of being born. If those people are ever forced to have no decision, then even more babies would have to face that possibility….And one baby is one too many for me….I used to work with convicts who grew up in homes like that….Jail was easy compared to the life they were brought up in……And those weren’t even the most severe cases….
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This is an extremely important and excellent point.
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Whooooooooooo…..are you….As the Who asked….Sounds pretty self absorbed to me there who….You’re so damn concerned about makeing a fetus that hasn’t become real life matter an actual baby and are willing to overlook how many times that actual baby will be brought into a life sentence of misery….Some minor and some extremely sever….The hell with judging if someone should control themselves and not get pregnant….Those unwanted pregnancies arn’t going to always end well no matter how you adjust your blinders and hope they will…..
So how many real babies brought into a sentence of a living hell is ok with you? Apparently a certain number is acceptable from what you’ve been writing here. I think one is one too many….And as for the fetus equalling a baby…..I don’t accept that, but none the less if your religious concerns is that this fetus is being denied the ability to retain a soul as a living being…….Then here’s my take…I don’t believe in a supreme being but I do believe in souls (Or life force)…..That soul will find its way into another birth because it has to for that actual birth to be alive. I don’t believ that if Billy Jo and Bobbby Sue don’t go full term that whatever soul would have been in that living child will never cease to exist…It will exist someplace regardles of race or religion…..So I would rather see real childern having a greater chance to suceed at somewhat of a normal life than take chances that unwanted childern get forced here for whatever hell they’re born in to..
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These same kind of tasteless displays have been used by abortion protesters in St. Paul, MN. Graphic pictures are publicly dispayed near a school, library and several day care centers. No one in thier right minds would do this kind of thing. It just goes to show you how these prtesters lack human dignity even when protesting to supposidly save lives.
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