Crystal exec: No change in contract offer
May 3, 2012 at 6:07 am in Grand Forks Herald
American Crystal Sugar has agreed to sit down with the Bakery Workers union and a federal mediator Jan. 8, “but our final offer is our final offer,” ACS spokesman Brian Ingulsrud said Thursday. Continue Reading
The company is changing. I understand that. I’m surprised it didn’t happen seven plus years ago. Frankly I thought the union got off easily that time around. Union employees knew there were going to be cuts in this contract. Those that didn’t had to have been living on the planet Mars.
I feel seven weeks vacation for someone who has worked at the company for an extended period of time is very very generous. Having it grandfathered to six weeks in the new contract is still in my opinion very very generous. How many of the rest of the posters on these blogs get six weeks paid vacation?
People that complain in favor of the union need to wake up and do some research on the internet concerning what other unions lost in their last contracts. Benefits were taken away…not just cut…but thrown out the door. They signed contracts that didn’t give them a raise for five years.
American Crystal Sugar didn’t do that to their employees. It’s time union employees let go of their bitterness towards the company. You people need to tell your union reps it’s time to sign the contract. Vote yes in June.
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hear, hear
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Ron, unless you are involved in profit sharing, what relevance does company profits have? The profits belong to the company. You may not believe this, but people start businesses to make money, not to supply you with a well payed and benefited job.
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I agree with the other comments, unless you have a profit sharing agreement – which the union refused – the company’s profits are not your concern. As we have discussed many times before, you are not entitled to a raise simply because the company is doing well. It is the market that determines wages. Sometimes it works in your favor, sometimes it works against you. In the end it is the market, not some tangential force like company profits that determine wages.
Let me give you a real world close to home example. The company I used to work for did a market survey and determined that we did not merit a raise last year because our wages were already “competitive.” Additionally, our insurance premiums went up 10% and the co-pays and deductibles increase 25%. For example, insurance does not even kick in for doctor’s visits until you have paid $2500 a year in co pays and co insurance.
Now keep in mind because of supply and demand (people want to do my job so there is rarely a shortage of applicants) we already earn $10 an hour less than hospital based RN.
Another factor to consider is even though there are many applicants, very few are actually qualified, and because it takes 3-6 months to train a new nurse, even when you hire them it is a very long time (and at least $10,0000 worth of training) before they are on line.
Directly related to the company’s stance about competitive wages, the RN turnover went from 10% to 20% in the space of 4 months. Aircraft were out of service because of no staff and the overtime being paid to those of us picking up the slack was astronomical. We are talking lots of nurses doubling their normal take home pay.
Long story short: the company did not repeat their mistake. This year my coworkers got a raise and a productivity bonus.
It was not a union contract or any sense of entitlement that caused this to happen. It was the market.
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If you can’t accept the changes the company is making then it is time for you to move on. It is as simple as that. You may not have been paying attention to the news but ACS has hired replacement workers that are more than willing to take your place. It is now up to you to decide if you want your old job back on the company’s terms…not yours and not the unions. My husband and I prepared ourselves for this round of contract negotiations.We aren’t in debt up to our eyeballs. We don’t mind giving up a few things. We can live with it. If people can’t than ACS is not the place for you anymore. Some people have their emotions to wrapped up in the company. It was a job…period. You have no ownership in ACS. I will not waste my life living in the past. The future for the workers at ACS is not as bleak as the union is trying to make it out to be.
*As far as the flip flopper goes…I will not speak to him about anything and he is well aware of that. I don’t play games when it comes to people’s jobs.
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Whoa! I may have learned something here. Gayle says “The Union has offered to move to the Company health plan…” Is that true? Can anyone show me that in union print?
Then Gayle says “Sydneys contract basically is the same financially as we have conceeded to in the Valley…” Did the union concede that? Can anyone show me that in union print?
Gayle implies that the rest of it (seniority, drug testing, sub-contracting, ect.) remains a part of the Sydney contract. Is that true? I would like to see that language.
Gayle, thanks for engaging in this discussion. I wish you the best.
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Gayle,
Again, I am sorry for your loss. I have to take exception with your expectation that your disability time (Who gets disability for funeral leave? FMLA will allow you the time off but it is unpaid time).
I cannot speak for ACS, but every hospital I have worked at gives you three days (24 hours) of berevement leave. After that you have to use your vacation. When that runs out you can usually get unpaid leave for a reasonable amount of time — month, six weeks maximum. If you are not ready to come back afte that you are let go unless FMLA comes into play or you have a very understanding boss.
Your complaint that dissability (which is inappropriate for this situation) does not pay 100% of your wages is over the top. I am not aware of a dissability program anywhere that pays 100%. Certainly not anywhere I have worked.
I do not begrudge that you may have had it in the past, but I am not willing to accept that you think you should get those types of benefits now. I fail to understand how you justify them. The union was locked out and the world did not come to an end. Why would management ever consider bringing you back at the old level when they have proven they do not need to.
You chose the lockout. The repercussions will be felt for the next decade.
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Gayle, the 2% 401K match isn’t mentioned in the final offer because that part of the contract did not change. Eash section of the final offer shows each affected section and shows both the old and new language where changes are being made. Section 16.16 401(k) Plan isn’t mentioned in the final offer because no changes are being made to it.
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Gayle,
A little review on the ACSC contract talks website and it is clear there isn’t a change to the 401k. Have you been without work for 9 months? What have you been doing? I find it disturbing that you don’t yet have a clear understanding of what the company offer is. Some wording changes could be interpretted in different ways, but to think a change will occur where none planned seems like a clearly false understanding of the contract offer. It indicates how poorly your union reps are doing their job.
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“and has offered 33 million in concessions over the next 5 years.”
With all due respect Gayle, whenever unions talk about the huge “concessions” they’ve made or are willing to make, the *numbers* always omit an important detail:
How does it compare?
To simplify that concept a bit, let’s imagine that your $33 million figure is accurate. They’re willing to make that “concession”. What does that mean to ANYONE unless we have something tangible to compare it to? In other words, let’s say those “concessions” are made, BUT the final result is STILL that the employees are compensated at a rate that’s significantly HIGHER than what they’d get elsewhere? Doesn’t that make the $33 million figure FAR less significant than the union wants it to sound? Doesn’t it also indicate how ridiculous the numbers the union wanted before they “stepped up” and made the “concessions” really were?
Compare stuff. I find it adds perspective.
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What lies have you heard from top management? Be specific.
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Starting a new job at our age is tough, but for the reasons you outlined not returning is your only possible option. Your sense of anger and entitlement would prevent you from ever being a productive employee again.
ACS is not and will not be the same as it was. This is how it should be. The world is changing, why should anyone expect them to stay the same?
I applaud your choice.
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You called four of us out. Did you think we were just going to take it?
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I’m trying to be helpful. How can I check facts on your “hearing all the lies that come out of the top management at Crystal” when you won’t list the lies that you were told?
How can you sense arrogance from this? I may be the most open-minded person in the world. Many times I have read things like “see for yourselves” and “check the facts” but when I try, I usually hit a dead end because nobody will provide enough background. This “lies” thing is a prime example.
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Again, I am sorry for your loss. To NOT BE anxious and depressed after two back to back losses would be abnormal. The fact that you were is the normal response. I am glad you are on your mend.
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Also flying nurse, I stated that disability paid 80%, not 100%. Crystals new contact would lower this to 60%
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I checked with my coworkers. No one knows off the top of their heads how much our long term disability insurance covers. I know you have to go through some significant hoops as far as time off before it kicks in (In the past it would kick in after “X” days off work or if you were admitted, or had surgery, etc. That is no longer the case).
It will be interesting to find out.
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It is 8 days before disability kicks in.
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I believe ours used to be similar, but it is much higher now. I know we are constantly having give vacation time to sick co worker drives because of the new requirements.
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You could also use vacation and sick time to fill in the other 20%.
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ron….somebody must be paying you to post here!!!! Nobody would possibly spew the nonsense we see in your comments!
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More Ron logic. No need to refute the many points you made with this post, you’ll refute them yourself at some point. I can’t help but notice though that you STILL haven’t invested the 15 seconds or so it would take to do some web searchin’ and investigatin’ to see if the words “your” and “you’re” are interchangeable.
Put it on *your* to-do list today….unless *you’re* to busy with other things.
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that should be “too busy”. (wink.)
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Gayle: Thanks for your efforts here. I didn’t read anything new from either side, but because of your input, things seem more civilized. This might have completely frustrated you, but you did
personalize and humanize this subject, at least for me. Since none of us are getting anywhere, here, we should probably all take a rest, but it’s been a nice break to see people being nice.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I’m going to overlook your comment because I think you are depressed. I know I sure am. I just want people to go back to work. I don’t think the union has anything to gain by staying out. Is the contract really that bad steve? I mean to the point that it is worth losing your job over?
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@ Steve, When you lose your ability to debate the facts you resort to name calling and insults?
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Nothing’s “wrong” with 2.5 paid vacation days, but, combined with a few paid holidays, sick leave, etc. it probably equals two full months of working days for many. It’s expensive and
something worth re-visiting for the next generation of workers. Of course, to you, Ron, a CEO looking for long-term stability can only be described as greedy.
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Nothing wrong with it Ron, it is just on the VERY HIGH end of normal. Most hospitals do give increased PTO (vacation/sick time) to long term employees. The max I have ever seen is one month. That was only one place. Everywhere else it tops out around 3 weeks.
I know I have been at 2-3 weeks forever, and since nurses are always in demand, you cannot take it anyway, so you end up selling it back
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Remember, Ron, the 5 weeks was opposed by 96% so we are still talking about 6 weeks at 25 years. How is 6 weeks “not far off of the bar”, which you state is 4 weeks? I never said vacation isn’t of some value. Clearly, with the opposing forces at work here, there’s plenty of blame to go around as to why no one can get anywhere. Stubborn doesn’t even begin to describe your position on this. I wonder why nobody don’t like you.
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Ron, 5 weeks of vacation instead of the average of 4 is a 25% increase, so it is substantially “off the bar”.
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You are right about this. You don’t know anything about ACSC. There isn’t a slow time at the factory. Once processing is done the plant shifts into maintenance mode. It is a rush every summer to get all the repairs done before the factory starts up again in the fall. They don’t just flip a switch and walk away for the summer.
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You shouldn’t be using the word normal. There is nothing normal about you. Tell me this ron…how does it feel to have a woman hand you your ass every day? You can’t keep up with me. Admit it and move on.
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Ouch. This is the mean side of tj. I prefer the clever side of tj. “w.ron.g” was about the most clever thing I have ever read.
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I let him get to me. To him this is a game. To me it’s real life.
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Um..I’ll take this one, ron. t.j.: I’ve been married for more than 40 years. Some of us just get used to it. It kind of becomes a hobby.
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I slipped Alvin. I’m a tad bit ashamed but there will be no apology. He has been playing games for months now and I’m tired of him.
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Ron, do you understand how the Dupont schedule works or what it even is? Your questions make you look very foolish, misguided, and unaware…… tj, bravo to you.
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Ron,
On the Dupont schedule you work 14 out of every 28 days, with one of the breaks lasting more than 7 days. Crystal also gives 24 hours of floating holiday to everyone every year plus 40 hours of sick and 40 hours of unscheduled time off (you use unscheduled if you call in for vacation or sick with out 16 hours notice) also you have the sliding scale for vacation up to 6 weeks off. You also receive unpaid time off for so many hours
(guessing 15 or so) for school functions.
All in all most people who work this schudule like it.
Years of
Continuous Service Vacation
1 1 Week
2 2 Weeks
6 3 Weeks
15 4 Weeks
20 5 Weeks
25 6 Weeks
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Gussy I asked a simple question for discussion. I do not appretiate the personal attacks coming from the majority of you posters. You people keep attacking the union members for “childish mistakes” made on the picket line during a very intense personal exprience, yeton an online discussion board you cannot engage in an adult conversation without resulting to insults. Has my behavior been perfect? No. I have not insulted anyone without being prevoked. Does thisexcuse my behavior? No, and I would like to appologize to anyone I offended. Especially scott for my previous post in this thread.
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Thank you creasy bear that answers my previous question.
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That is a sicere appology. I want the same thing you do t.j. a end to this lockout and everyone back working. Honest truth. I really hope something good comes out of the june 8th meeting. a little or as large of a move that can happen in the right directionwould be great
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Okay…I’m sorry to. I went to far and I hurt your feelings. I’m worried about the June meeting. The stress built up and I took it out on you. I want to apologize Ron. I disappointed Alvin and Oofda…and I appreciate that they took the time to point out my mistake.
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Okay riddle me this batman???? Or maybe you can answer me Steve. Back in August of 2011 this was about the company contracting out labor and cutting jobs. The company addressed this and it became about wording in the contract that would give the company the right to pick and choose who would come back. The company addressed that, and it became about insurance. The company addressed that and it became about………..yadayadayda….. The only thing you people have been consistent on is these farmers make to much and live in big house with big boats and drive big pickups. And Dave Berg is Hitler, Brian Inglusrude is not very smart, and Joe Talley is the master of puppets behind the evil republican curtain. Please would one of you just be honest and admit this is all about MONEY, and POWER!!!!! You want more money and your union wants the power. It would be an awful situation if the company that hired the employees had any say in who gets promoted demoted or is worthy of staying on the job. Remember the NY triangle fire of 1903? I do it was awful, it will happen again if Frank Hurt can buy a new yacht!
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Ron, The only good would be if the voters ever open their eyes, punch the one watching how each one votes. The union voting is how saddam hussain ran his elections. The Original FInal Offer shall Stand as is, No changes. Senority should be gone forever, workers should pay their share of health expenses like everyone else within the company. Had a lockout worker complain to me about being locked out, Told him there’s a help wanted sign at walmart. I want them working somewhere too, off the unemployment mooching.
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I need to know what this contract dispute is all about again. Can you guys please tell me. In August it was about contracting out labor and getting rid of jobs. Then it was about Health Care and how unfair it was for the company to make you pay for some of it. Then it was wording, then it was evil greedy farmers and so on and so on. Please tell me what this is about. From day one this has never been about money according to the union, but the only thing you have been consistent on is record payments, big management bonus’s and Dave Berg being the spawn of Satan. Your reps have stated they will fight the sugar bill on TV, then someone must have informed him that there are other union members still at work at other sugar factory’s, then he goes on TV and said the company made that up. The other Rep, Froemke? He needs to spend more time reading more Carl Marx and less time in the VFW and on you tube. You need to go back to work, or find a new job, pretty simple. Can’t wait to hear from you Comrade Jeff H.
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I’m glad the company wouldn’t meet with the union until June 8th. I want the union employees to stew a bit and think seriously about their futures. Maybe this time they will vote in favor of going back to work because it really is that simple. Vote yes if you want your job or no if you want to go work somewhere else.
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I am really curious if the union will even call for a vote after the June 8th meeting or will it just end like the last meeting?
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Hey, t.j. Don’t be too hard on yourself. A couple of your feistiest comments got nearly 30 thumbs up. Still, we all know you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. After all is said and done, I’d sure appreciate if the company would give another inch and the employees accept.
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You know me so well Alvin. My husband told me this morning to stay off the ACS boards because they stress me out. I’m going to take his advice and bow out of this for now. It’s time to go to the lake and let the chips fall where they may.
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