Crystal exec: No change in contract offer
May 3, 2012 at 6:07 am in Grand Forks Herald
American Crystal Sugar has agreed to sit down with the Bakery Workers union and a federal mediator Jan. 8, “but our final offer is our final offer,” ACS spokesman Brian Ingulsrud said Thursday. Continue Reading
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
44 
130
I have no horse in this at all, but I am thinking that if they don’t accept the offer this time, the workers will lose any little bit of public support they have left. Your wages are more than fair for what you do and the area of the country you live in. I have a Master’s Degree and you probably make close to what I make, and no, my insurance isn’t paid for either by my employer.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
181 
36
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
40 
159
“Just because you aren’t resourceful enough…..”
Now THAT is classic.
Just how is your “resourcefulness” working out for you?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
109 
15
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
16 
40
For workers to only pay 17% of health premiums is darn cheap! The national average is 43% Some of us pay the entire cost out of our own pockets. It is among things many are doing to allow companies to compete.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
102 
19
I pay $20 a week for my insurance. I am not complaining. The last company where I paid pennies for my insurance (Albertsons) went bankrupt. Please don’t complain that you’ll have to pay for your insurance because I can guarantee that 99% of Grand Forks working force has to pay for theirs.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
134 
18
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
17 
49
So your firm and competing firms pay for insurance? So a total guess of 4 companies out of err a guesstimate 500 places of work in FM is less than 1%.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
45 
18
I wonder if Microsoft regrets hiring you? Inquiring minds want to know.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
43 
9
There must be concessions given by the union to have the federal mediator call for a meeting……is this a duplication of Roquette?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
73 
21
One word: VOTE
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
108 
11
two words vote YES…………..It’s time to goback to work.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
114 
20
My new name….sayYES2acsc
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
90 
25
Like said earlier, a one-man boxing match (Union Boxer has no brain left, never much to begin with).
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
93 
33
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
36 
72
What is the point of the june 8th meeting? Crystal says final offer and union votes it down.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
93 
12
If ACSC is deadset that this is their final offer as they have been…why the meeting? Shouldn’t the union stop wasting everyone’s time and just take another vote? They are voting on the same contract they voted for the last time so yes or no and leave it at that.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
105 
13
Lets see. A portion of your RAISE goes to pay part of the insurance premium. But it’s still a raise, correct?
Or stay on strike and continue to not get paid. I think I’d go with the smaller raise and cut my losses. As it is, they will never recoup 10 months lost wages.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
125 
18
One more time, are those who told the rank and file to vote no still getting a check?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
100 
14
Oh yes…and after seeing the news tonight on KVLY…I’m completely disgusted. How can Roger Delage be so obtuse?
On a side note: Has he ever heard of a shower? My God…I wanted to take the garden hose after him.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
90 
17
http://www.valleynewslive.com/story/18112581/new-crystal-negotiations-dead-in-the-water
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
38 
8
Sure oofda…rub it in…pour salt on the wound. How come your team got the blue-eyed pretty slick college boy and we got stuck with this? I want to start over again and this time I want the teams evenly matched.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
34 
4
tj, I am no stud rock star like Mr. Ingulsrud
but I often think that if you and I could have led the negotiations on behalf of the union, we could have got them a good deal. It’s too late now because the staff and growers of ACS have paid the price. If ACS moves now, it will be further away from the union. For the union leaders to not engage until now tells me that they were certain that the refineries wouldn’t function without them. It was a huge and foolish gamble and they lost big.
With your looks and my wit, Mr. Ingulsrud wouldn’t have known what hit him. Maybe next time.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
46 
7
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
8 
22
The offer is there. They aren’t changing. Take it or leave it. If you want to leave it once again, go find a new job and quit whining about it. You voted yourselves out of a job and now you pay the price. I’ll keep buying Crystal sugar. It’s good stuff.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
111 
23
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
34 
108
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
27 
89
“Just because you pay for your insurance means everyone else has to? Great argument.”
Ron, perhaps you ought to speak to a union employee holding one of the *this* or *that* is “unfair” signs. Feel free to ask them what “fair” means. Follow that up with questions about whether or not “fairness” only matters when it conveniently supports their, (or your), argument.
Please resist the temptation to turn this thread into another two or three pages of refuting your “logic”.
You don’t understand what’s going on here. Back away from the keyboard Ron. Please.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
73 
16
This is my guess of what will happen at the meeting. Union-we are willing to vote on your contract proposal but no union members can be held responsible for any action they have done prior to or during the lockout. I hope ACS doesn’t give in and ones that have crossed the line are held accountable.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
63 
16
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
25 
65
Really, show me an actual link to where I can find that information.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
55 
8
What about Brad Nelson, AKA “The Spitter”, has he gone to court yet?
Another classy union thug.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
62 
9
Mr. Nelson is set for trial on July 20.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
39 
1
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
31 
80
They were not kicked out of a job, The Union voted not to work thinking they could find better work somewhere else. Glad to see the smart ones quit the Union to go back to work in the factories or at least have a job somewhere. As for the ones still whining about the contract or don’t like it… Get over it and go somewhere else, those are the ones that don’t belong in the factories, the ones that are lazy.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
105 
21
Do I hear a loud Amen.. AMEN!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
62 
14
“Crystal is opening the door to give them the shaft and than turn it sideways down the road and sadly because of the support of the people in this community friends and neighbors of the union employees are being hung out to dry. ”
Ummmm….what?
I can’t believe I’m doing this, but what the heck. Try that sentence again Ron. Explain exactly what you mean by it. No perched-on-your-soapbox sermon, simply take a moment and rephrase it.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
63 
13
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
23 
68
“Good for you elderton, there is absolutly no reason for a company that is experiencing record profits year after year to make any labor cuts…”
When you’re typing a new post or reply, does it ever occur to you, (or matter to you), that it might contradict something you’re posted before? Are you able to shake your head and erase everything in it *Etch-A-Sketch* style? That must come in handy.
I’m just wondering, because you posted before that you thought the company perhaps had “lost control of things”, or had maybe “allowed the union to gain too much power”.
So if you feel that way, (and think that perhaps those things are undesirable or inadvisable things for a company to do or have done), then how should said company regain control of the situation?
Would Professor Ron suggest high-fives and raises all around?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
63 
18
I doubt that many have changed their minds since the 90% no vote, or that a constructive comment here will make any difference. My issue is with health costs. As this $Trillion + industry continues to grow, the insured needs to find $100 billion to $200 billion more each year. 3% raises are gobbled up by healthcare increases. Almost every employer who pays the bulk of family premiums is cutting benefits, causing further decreases in take-home pay. That’s the world we live in. Many Crystal employees are distracted by executive pay, high food prices and a cyclically robust ag economy. Considering the economic trend fueled by decades of indecent healthcare increases, this anger is misplaced. It’s impossible for the union employees to have seen what I’ve seen these last 20 years. I wish I could help, but there’s no fixing this.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
63 
6
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
21 
64
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
19 
51
You’re right you can.. But you will find that most of us don’t support you because you’re wrong.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
60 
13
w.ron.g
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
61 
9
“Scott, I can argue what I want whenever I want to.”
You sure can Ron. Just expect your miscellaneous ramblings to be dismissed as irrelevant. One question though: You’re clearly on the union’s “side” in this debate, and you’ve admitted with the quote of yours I included here at the beginning of this post that you’re not all that concerned about being consistent….as if it doesn’t matter. You’ll flip-flop at will, you’ll apply *this* set of rules or standards *here*, but maybe a different set of rules or standards *there*, and yet you seem to want to be taken seriously. I can’t take you seriously Ron, it’s impossible.
So here’s the question: Do you think you’re “helping”? If I were personally involved in this lock-out situation, (i.e. locked-out myself), I would have asked you several times by now to stop “helping”.
If a person reads one or two of your posts, they might think you’re on to something. But anyone that’s digested more than that, well…..
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
40 
5
As I stated on an earlier thread: ACS has nothing to gain but everything to lose by making any significant concessions. Give the union 2 years of free healthcare but do not budge on seniority & new job classifications.
The union has miscalculated every step of the way. They envisioned this would be like every other time they came to the table: they would bluster & whine & after a few weeks things would pretty much go as they desired. What they did not count on was the Teutonic shift in management labor relations over the last decade, as well as the folly of attempting a labor action during the midst of a significant economic downturn. Pure foolishness.
At the present time the union enjoys precious little public support & absolutely no bargaining power. Unless the union is coming to the table ready to sign, I do not even know why ACS even agreed to the meeting. It is not like the union can sobpena them
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
57 
13
im sure alot of the union empoyees have been looking for other jobs how many of those other jobs offer to pay all health insureance premiums?? ill bet none comon people wake up and go back to work
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
56 
14
flying nurse I think when the union requests a meeting the company has to honor the request in a reasonable time table. Until the union folds I believe they are still legally obligated to at least go through the formalities.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
45 
9
I believe it was said back in November that the federal mediator would only schedule a meeting if there was significant movement by one of the two parties toward resolve. I take that as the union is willing to give in to some or all of the company’s proposal, pending a vote. Yes Ron, the have to oblige the mediator or they would be cited for not bargaining in good faith.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
47 
3
Thanks Ron, that makes sense.
I HAVE NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE, this is purely speculation: my guess is the union is going to cave on healthcare in return for concessions on seniority & new job classifications remaining union.
Again I have no clue. Purely talking out of my hat, but it makes sense. Both sides acknowledge that if this was about healthcare it would have been over on the second vote. Since healthcare is secondary to seniority & new non-union jobs (both things the union negotiators would lose their jobs over if they gave away), my guess is this will be 12 hours of non-productive time
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
37 
3
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
9 
39
Just a side note to the comment by Paul on Bradkey Knapper. Your were right Paul, the charges were dropped because he agreed to pay the $1400 to fix the damage to the car because it was cheaper than going to trial. Just a little clarification in case you missed the second part of his admission of guilt by paying.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
62 
6
This is disappointing. Why would prosecuters drop the felony charge? If a bank robber gave the money back, would you let him walk? http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/359794/group/News/
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
45 
5
I researched his crime on the internet. Restitution and one year probation are the usual punishment for keying a vehicle if the damage is under $5000.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
45 
2
“the charges were dropped because he agreed to pay the $1400 to fix the damage to the car because it was cheaper than going to trial.”
Not at all surprising that was left out by the original poster.
Pesky details. All they do is confuse people.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
52 
2
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
7 
46
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
10 
51
What was he doing with his hands in his pockets? Where was his sign? Why was he standing that close to the vehicle? I’m not buying the innocent routine. If I were innocent….I would go to court and prove it.
And don’t give us crap about being mean to the union employees. Have you read the comments on union members facebook pages? Some real choice words are used there. That sort of behavior would get us banned from Area Voices. Union activists have a one sided view of the events that have occurred since the lockout began.
FYI….I am a union wife…I very ashamed of the union wife. They have made one blundering mistake after another since last May. Their behavior has been atrocious at times and their ignorance is unbeatable. If my husband and his friends lose their jobs over this…certain people will be held accountable for it.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
44 
4
Sorry Gayle, dismissal of charges does not mean he’s innocent. You can only be innocent if your case goes to trial and you are found to be innocent by either a jury or a judge. Charges were dropped when he agreed to pay $1400, not because the states attorney had a revelation that “oh my god I’m prosecuting an innocent man”. If Knapper was so free of wrong doing why would he have to pay? A similar thing happened to my son, charges were dropped and it was like it never happened, as long as he paid his fine up front. He wasn’t innocent and neither is Knapper.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
50 
5
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
11 
36
“No scott, my so called “flip flop” may confuse you because unlike you I try to have a discussion and listen to what other people have to say. Scott you are anti union period and have only a clouded view on thisfiasco”
Wrong again Ron. Your flip-flops have only served to expose how “clouded” YOUR views are. You can brand me as anti-union all you want, but I’ve asked several questions since this began. The reason I’ve asked those questions is to get answers. If I ask why a situation is “deserved” by *this* person, but not by *that* person, and the answerer has difficulty explaining it, well sorry…but that’s not “on me” so to speak. It’s hilarious that you feel that I’m biased Ron. At least I’m able to be consistent. You simply think that YOUR bias “entitles” you to be all over the place in a discussion.
“I have no ties to american crystal sugar ”
I don’t either Ron. Funny thing is, you’ve mentioned several times that your compensation package has benefited because your employer HAD TO in order to compete with his union competitor. Why does it matter if you have no DIRECT ties to ACS? At least SOME of your viewpoint is due to what you’re getting because of a union situation that exists next door. Of course you’re going to reply to THAT by saying I’m “jealous” or some other such nonsense….which is ridiculous. “Joining up” isn’t difficult, it’s certainly not an exclusive club that has rigorous admission requirements. I, (unlike you), recognize that the *special circumstances* can’t exist for everyone, because it wouldn’t work. I, (unlike you), realize how silly it is for someone that’s part of a group of people covered by the *special circumstances* to say something is “unfair” simply because they’re not getting what they want. Any conversation about “fairness” needs to start at the beginning Ron. Let’s start with the compensation packages, work rules, etc. other folks are getting for similar positions elsewhere in the area and do some comparing.
You probably “don’t care” about the “other folks” or how “fair” their situation is. That’s okay Ron. I get it. You’re “getting yours”….and it ISN’T because you bring any more to the table as an employee. Your employer felt it was necessary to cough it up. It’s not surprising which side you’re on. Of course you’re a supporter. You’re benefiting AND no dues are coming out of your check.
Congrats. By all means, keep your *totally unbiased and unclouded* points of view coming. They’re very educational.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
35 
6
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
16 
59
I am truly sorry for losses (husband and son). As far as the rest of your post, it is in true pro-union fashion. “record profits off of our backs”, weren’t you compensated for your work or were you enslaved by the company? The one about the desparity in compensation between the CEO and the worker? There’s a pattern here and it deals with money, who has it and who doesn’t. Wrong arguments unless you had ownership in the business. The union may have thought they had ownership, but the last 10 months should have showed that they don’t.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
52 
11
Gayle,
I am sorry for your loss, but your understanding of how compensation works is very flawed. Jeff and I had this discussion as well. An employee is not entitled to a raise simply because the company made money. Most certainly not year after year like clockwork. The company making a profit is why you have a job, it is not your que to demand more.
Wages are determined by the market. When your skills are scarce and the company cannot function without you, wages increase. When you are easy to replace, wages are stagnant or fall.
As I have mentioned many times before, I am an RN. When I graduated (1986) I earned $10.50 an hour. I get almost three times that now. Why? At $10.50 an hour people were leaving nursing in droves. Whole floors of hospitals were closed because there was no one to staff them. Because of supply and demand wages increased. The shortage also improved as people left other professions to enter nursing in order to capitalize on the wages.
What you are asking for is profit sharing, and it is my understanding the union refused this because while they wanted the lagress during the good times, they were not willing to risk a reduction in pay during the bad times. That is simply immature.
If you want profit sharing, ask for it. If you believe you are entitled to a raise simply because the company is making money, be prepared for the lockout to become permanent. You may feel you deserve everything you are asking for, but the market disagrees, and in the end the market always wins.
As for a 5-6 weeks vacation after twenty five years? Are you nuts. Who signs these contracts. It is a good thing that ACS is a closely held company (CO-OP). If their management had to deal with stockholders after signing such ludicrus benefits they would be unemployed. There is simply no justification for such a benefit.
As I have explained before, seniority systems tend to breed mediocraty. Rewarding mediocraty with 6 weeks vacation is not how you encourage increased productivity; quite the opposite is true.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
48 
7
Gayle, ACSC’s record profits were because of the union?
Do you suppose that the growers growing large crops with high sugar content, or high sugar prices, or management negotiating good sales contracts, or management managing the company well had anything to do with record profits?
If the record profits were because of the union, why aren’t there record profits EVERY year??
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
55 
7
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
10 
41
“A farmer with 1,000 acres of beets make 10 times as much as a farmer with 100 acres of beets, but makes the same profit per ton.”………….
Not true Steve. Only if both farmers raise the same amount of tons per acre and have the exact same sugar percentage. And both of those very widely from farmer to farmer. Also depending upon each farmers input costs, they do not make the same profit per ton. Some farmers put more or less fertilizer in the ground or spray chemicals that have different costs per acre. There are dozens of variables that determine an individual farmers profit per acre.
But apparently, the union controls it all.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
47 
6
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
8 
33
“Your comment was about managment or factory labor having the most influence on profits.”
Wrong again Steve, reread what I said.
“Do you suppose that the growers growing large crops with high sugar content, or high sugar prices, or management negotiating good sales contracts, or management managing the company well had anything to do with record profits?”
I was never comparing if management or labor had the most influence on profit. I was only pointing out that there are many factors that affect profitability, it is not based solely on labor as Gayle was inferring.
So I’ll ask this question again, if the only factor that affects profitability is labor or if labor has the most influence on profitablity, as you say, why aren’t there record profits every year??
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
36 
4
Our government does not set the price for sugar. If they did, then why would they let the price of domestic sugar go from 23 cents a pound 2 – 3 years ago to the 35 or 45 cents a pound that is being seen today? Even then sugar was profitable. The reason prices have gone up is that there have been reductions in the amount of sugar produced around the world due to crop failures in other regions of the world. The world price for sugar has gone from about 10 cents a pound to 23 cents a pound in the same 2 -3 year time period. At Friday’s close the world price was 20.8 cents a pound. So the record profits were generated more by the increase in the selling price of sugar than by any supposed reduction in productions costs by union labor.
Yes, the government does control the amount of sugar that can be imported into the country, that is to limit other countries from dumping their excess sugar, which is produced with direct government subsidies, into our market. Otherwise all the union labor jobs would go away because making sugar would no longer be profitable. Sugar quotas don’t just benefit the farmer or the co-op, they benefit the labor requuired because if the manufacturer isn’t making a profit it won’t be in business to provide the jobs.
Maybe next time you should check some actual facts and not just go by what the conspiracy nuts are saying about the marketing of sugar in this country.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
38 
9
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
13 
36
I would rather pay more and have my money support people here in the US than pay less and support people in Brazil or Thailand.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
34 
2
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
13 
55
We don’t forget that Ron, we also don’t forget that they chose to be locked out. They voted twice knowing what would happen if they reject the fair contract that was offered them.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
57 
9
Gayle: I’m one of the posters who keeps mentioning “it’s happening everywhere”, not to trash the union employee, but to offer perspective. It’s time for me to stop nagging about healthcare and everyone’s need to take ownership of part of it. Sure, if I’d had my way, you would have taken the first offer. If the end result was the only thing that counts, everyone would have accepted the offer. Your comments prove how unimportant that really is. You probably speak for 90% of the union. But, when we talk about greed, pride, hate, etc., it’s easy to just think of the other guy. I don’t know why there’s so much hate on these blogs, but we’d all get along better if human nature would allow us to not just notice it in our neighbor. Best wishes. I’ll stop crabbing about healthcare.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
51 
0
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
16 
59
Gayle, I would like to meet some of your grower friends who are approved to the lockout. Every single grower who has went public has been in support of management. I would encourage your friends to write an editorial. Right now your claims seem suspicious to say the least.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
50 
7
Gayle, Finding a grower that is against the lockout is like finding a needle in a haystack, Most all i know support the lockout, it got alot more backing once they found out what is all in the contract. The Union is Blind to the whole picture, The Smart, Educated ones have already left the Union while the ones stuck with hanging with the union are like a bunch of sheep that just do what they are told because they know nothing else, too afraid to vote for themself.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
47 
6
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
12 
34
Gayle, I am also sorry to hear about the struggles you have faced in recent years. I am compasionate toward the locked out workers also and I don’t think there are many growers who like the lockout. I think all wish that it didn’t have to happen. The union, Gayle, had an opportunity to work on this before the lockout and ACS made significant movement. The NLRB, as I’ve referred to a thousand times, clarifies that and ACS does not have any ties that would sway that ruling as I’ve heard rumored by unionites. Secondly, the union never requested a federal negotiation meeting for several months after the lockout started. The company has laid out its objectives and been very upfront with the employees and the union. As far as unionbusting, it is nearly impossible for a company to break a union. The union must dispand from within and even if this lockout continues for years, as soon as the union signs a contract, your back in. The “union busting” is a phrase used to make this a them against us fight and it has certainly done a great job. That, I fully blame on union leadership.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
56 
5