Disappointed by dismissal of NCAA lawsuit, Spirit Lake lawyer turns back to nickname referendum
May 2, 2012 at 7:14 am in Grand Forks Herald
“We’ve gone forward the best way we know how and the final decision rests with the people of North Dakota,” Reed Soderstrom said, referring to the June 12 referendum on the name. “That’s the way it needs to be.” Continue Reading
The only thing I find surprising about his comments, besides his honesty about getting his backside kicked is that he never mentioned the constitutional amendment. Is that still in play? I have felt all along that was their only hope of retaining the name.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Long time ago in the 70′s I came here to fight a cold war with ICBM’s.. What I was to watch is about the Sioux Indians and the rich history that came with it.. I spent countless hours reading about the Sioux and other tribes during their wars between themselves.. From what I found in history… The Sioux lost almost all the the battles between the tribes.. What makes me the most interesting part of this history is that the Sioux was the most peaceful in as live and let live thinking.. With all my reading and thoughts about their way of life.. I became a Sioux.. Not in blood but in spirit..
I can’t seem to grasp all the anger that is about the logo to keep the Sioux alive.. I’m proud to be a Sioux supporter.. I’m asking from you readers to help me try to understand why Standing Rock’s thinking causes more harm and why they think this way.. Where did the respect go these days?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Rick my take on the actions of officials of the Standing Rock tribe (i.e. refusing to schedule or allow a band-wide vote to help settle the issue) stems from some perspective of respect.
And it’s not what many nickname opponents might suspect.
Standing Rock’s reservation is located across state lines–they are located within BOTH North Dakota AND South Dakota.
I’ve heard a bit of info that suggests my view might be right on the money, but keep in mind how things played out here.
A band located in both states was asked to support continued use of the nickname of a sports team in just one of those states.
Look at their options when faced with that.
Keep in mind they already would have felt dishonored by not being consulted by either UND or the NCAA in the matter.
And keep in mind they consider themselves a sovereign nation at least with respect to taking direction from either the NCAA or UND.
I can easily envision a scenario where they didn’t want to support one state’s team over the other’s.
I can envision a scenario where anger over how things played out–without their being consulted–led to a decision to refuse to stick their neck into the mess created.
I am positive that they would not have been happy about not being directly consulted during the negotians between the NCAA and UND.
Not agreeing to a vote on the matter–keep in mind that was the method the NCAA and UND came up with, it wasn’t anything they had even been consulted on–is one way to avoid other controversy and the need to advocate a position.
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Tim: to piggyback on to your geographic argument, the largest Sioux reservation in the nation is openly & very vocally opposed to the name.
Before you go there I know you believe AIM has taken over tribal politics & does not speak for the mythical majority on the Rez, but be that as it may, they are the ones charged with speaking for the Rez so you have to accept their views.
I am sure there is some spill oner between Pine Ridge & SR
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What I envision is that when the agreement was struck, that those in power in the State of North Dakota expected the tribes to roll over and act like ‘good little Indians’ and agree to the negotiated agreement with the NCAA.
What I never saw was anyone make a good faith effort to go down and talk with the people of Standing Rock before the agreement was struck or after. I never saw anyone make a good faith effort to garner their support. I don’t think what the State of Florida did was wrong if the Seminoles as a people agreed to it so be it. I think if the name and logo of UND meant so much to this state that no price would have been to high.
I bear the Native Americans no ill will. I just wish that they would have been able to get the NCAA or the courts to listen to their voice. Ultimately it is now up to the voters of North Dakota.
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Your points are well taken Mav. Despite all of the rhetoric about SR not having its voice heard, they actually have a long tradition of being opposed to the name.
Despite all of the talk about a sacred pipe ceremony, Marilyn Hagerty did one of her ND history pieces on the SR elders & tribal council petitioning UND to lose the name, & this was in the 1980s.
As much as the pro nickname side wants to make it seem like their opposition is new, it is in fact very established. That is why I honestly believe that those who crafted the agreement knew it would fail. How could it not?
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Its possible.. I grew up in this state.. I know how the Native Americans have been treated because I had a father who treated them that way.. Heck he treated everyone that wasn’t white and Lutheran that way.. Luckily I was raised by my mother.
The SR tribe is central to the controversy because the people were not allowed to vote, both under Jesse His Horse is Thunder and Charles Murphy. While I have been one of the first to state that their political process is their own and it is not for me to interfere, I will also state that not all elected political officials speak for all of their people. If I did that I would have to admit that Rick Berg speaks for me when he doesn’t. So while there have been many in the news who have made it publicly known that they don’t support the use of the name, I would guess that there are just as many voice who haven’t been heard who do support the name.
There has also been a lot said about the pipe ceremony, and while it is a sacred religious ceremony for the people, unfortunately I also know it isn’t a legal and binding in the eyes of White America. If it was there would have been a lot less broken treaties.
I do support the Native American efforts for their voices to be heard, be that for the name or against the name.. Because the point of all of this…. It is ‘their’ name and their voice is the only one that matters. Personally I think the rest of North Dakota should not even vote on this issue. I think it should be the two tribes and the two tribes alone. For if there is anyone who is the object of the hostile and abusive nature of this name, it is only them that can say if that is in fact the truth.
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Mav: I would agree with you except for nor thing: the tribes do not own the name, the state does. That was the crux of the lawsuit. The SL crowd was basically saying we had to get their permission to discontinue its use.
The judge shot that notion down quite strongly
The name belongs to the state, that means us. We are the ones who pay the taxes that keep the place afloat.
All during this debacle I have wanted to say if you do not go to UND or if you are not an alumni, you do not get a vote, that this issue does not concern you.
The reason I haven’t is same as above. The name belongs to the state. It is up to the state to decide what we are to be called.
Always: the Supreme Court’s decision to not decide is not indicative of the Billy’s constitutionality; just their political cowardness. As I have said , I could live with a wrong decision. I refuse to accept or enable no decision. Completely unacceptable
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I realize that they do not ‘own’ the name Fighting Sioux, but they are the people for whom the NCAA has stated the imagery is hostile and abusive. For those reasons and those reasons alone in my honest opinion it should be their choice. Just like it was the Seminoles choice to let Florida continue to use the name.
While it is my tax dollars that fund that school the school again the debate over the use of the name is because it was declared hostile and abusive towards the ‘Native Americans’.. not the White Americans, Norwegian Americans, German Americans, Russian Americans that are the primary post Columbus settlers of this area. I have never felt that the name was hostile or abusive, I have always treated it with honor and pride. But again it has nothing to do with me..
Don’t get me wrong, I will vote in favor to save UND if it comes to that point. I have stated in the past that I felt the fight was over once the agreement was signed and the date was past.. I have also stated that the lawsuit against the NCAA and the tribe was their last chance to be heard. Well a judge has decided that their lawsuit didn’t have merit. Because of the Supreme court the people of North Dakota will decide. But once again it will be the white man speaking for the Native Americans and not their voice. Which ultimately is sad.
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I hear what you are saying Mav, but if you look at the history of this, everyone involved has had a say, numerous times. SL had their say & since Always & Tim agreed with the outcome, they call it democracy in action.
SR voted twice, but since they did not like the way it went, they are crying foul & muddying the waters with charges of tribal politics & corruption. You can bet your bottom dollar if the vote had gone their way & someone from the outside wanted to disparage the election they would be calling for a federal investigation about people trying to deny NA their rights.
The pro side is very disingenuous in their claims of “honoring” the tribes, even Tim who should know better. In the Harold’s biopic on Eunice, she made it very clear she did not agree with the SR vote, but it was not her place to comment on their politics . She was satisfied they had voted, and she was willing to live with the results.
Talk about going from hero to zero. When was the last time you heard their side praise or even mention her efforts? When she stopped being a good little Indian the dropped her.
Like I said Mav, you cannot pour into an empty cup & they are already full (of it).
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Hey flyingnurse.. Are we out numbered?
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Nickname opponents are always outnumbered on these boards. It just comes with the territory. I have had the GFPD call me at home regarding a threat made to my family, my sexuality & masculinity openly questioned, & my mental health, intelligence, & fitness to live in our fine state derided more often than I can count.
Just another day at the office
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“……are sick of outsiders like the NCAA telling us what to do…and it’s always the right thing to stand up to a bully.” Who is the bully? NCAA is justifiably (as the dismissed suit proves) following public opinion established over years and years of complaints by Native Americans and others. You mean like the SR Council? Or the people of the UND supporting the retirement of the name….louder and with more vehemence than the NCAA ever did? It’s “insiders” and “outsiders”, including a significant population of Native Americans as well as their leaders. If the UND doesn’t want the name, who is better than the representatives of the UND, joined in solidarity at all levels, to act and offer guidance in this decision? No one. UND first, name second. Standing Rock didn’t want it…..as established by the SR Council and as the second petition among the SR members evidenced in contrast to the first one more often referenced….now they can get their way by voting YES on June 12. I trust Charles Murphy and his SR council members will be first in line to vote YES at their voting center. Looking forward to the detailed demographics following the June 12 vote. Let’s see how SL and SR members as well as every identifiable, meaningful group in ND voted.
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You and the muddle head Stenejhem think along the same lines,
Why does Standing Rock have to vote on anything? What right did blockhead have to include the tribes in his “agreement” with the NCAA.
Your condescending and arrogant attitude is exactly what Stenejhem took with him to the NCAA meeting…
The Sioux do not owe you or anybody else a damn thing. The United States of America practiced genocide on Native Americans, not unlike the leader of Germany practiced on his victims.
No, I stand with the decision at Standing Rock as well as the decision at Spirit Lake…they are not mutually exclusive.
Stenejhem should join Kelley on the way out of town, in my humble opinion, the State of North Dakota would be better served by the lack of these two bozos.
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Always: have I told you lately how cute you are when you’re desperate? Insufferable but cute. Beats network TV at least
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Couldn’t agree more…I probably have 200 plus channels….
and nothing is on.
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Since your friend the statue of liberty pointed out that I was breaking rules 1,2,3 for offering you a tissue and a hug I have decided to point out a few of your infractions. The same rules apply to all of us.
rule 1 infraction: not being civil
rule 2 infractions: muddle heads., blockheads, bozos are personal attacks.
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I’m a strong nickname opponent and completely agree with Judge Erickson’s decision (I’m a lawyer, too). But I just want to say I am impressed with the thoughtfulness and intelligence of the comments so far — so unlike the usual vitrolic stuff you see in online comments on a controversial subject.
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Well…I just got here.
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Please do get the appeals process and plan ready… Lord knows this hasn’t gone on long enough.
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FN is very accomplished at cherry picking facts to support her view, I will give her that!
The problem is, the story can’t be told with snippets in time, it has a long history. And that history–and actions in regards to use of the name in recent years–must be taken into account when discussing the racism or not core issue behind the conflict.
She’s claimed a number of things I know not to be true from my personal time at UND and my recollection of events over time, my younger siblings time there, one of my parents time there, moving up to my own kids knowledge as the cycle was completed and another member of my clan attended UND. I have a kid there today, and the story I hear regarding student support and actions is far different than what one reads from FN.
Back in my day Tom Clifford took the issue up and went out to visit bands to take their pulse and discuss concerns they may have. His finding was that there was general support for use of the name as long as it was used honorably. During his time there were issues–I can testify to that. But also during his time, zero-tolerance for malfeasance with regards to inappropriate use was made clear.
Later during the Ralph building years the story was not as FN proclaims it either. Both UND and the SBOHE wanted to retain the name though that was a time when activists came out of the woodwork against it. More progress with regards to understanding and I believe a stronger focus from citizens and student to honor the nickname grew out of that time.
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Tim your recollections of the Ralph controversy run counter to what Always was posting incessantly a few months back (Ralph’s letter to Kupchella) & even the Harold’s pieces on the controversy. I believe they even did an extensive time line.
A working group formed by the university to address the nickname issue after complaints from Native Students & the SR tribe among others recommended the name be done away with. Kupchella started taking steps to implement these recommendations & Ralph threatened to take his toys & go home , causing the SBHE to put an end to the process. Not much controversy. It is all well documented.
As for the student votes, those too are part of the record. Nothing made up.
You keep referring to a process that was begun & then abandoned that would have resolved the racism issue. It would be nice to think that such a process either existed or does exist, but I am doubtful.
It is 40 years since the heyday of the Civil Rights movement & yet when an African American makes a game winning goal, twitter erupts with the N word.
Closer to home how many posts during this protracted mishtenda have said that if we can’t have the name then all Native American programs at UND need to be shut down?
I know you sincerely believe that if whatever process you keep alluding to had been allowed to continue, we would have reached a mutually satisfying conclusion & the NCAA would have went along with whatever was decided.
I respect your opinion but think you are wrong. Some controversies just do not lend themselves to compromise & win win solutions
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There was at one time a win/win solution.
That is what happened at Florida. The NCAA overstepped the bounds when they introduced this ignorant and racist policy. But once the decision was made they needed to save face to get out of the mess they put themselves in. It is the only explanation for the schizo behavior they have exhibited on this issue.
It is just not possible for a rational person of reasonable intellect to believe that the Seminoles is OK but the Sioux are not.
So…the NCAA came up with some ridiculous option that allowed them to save face and not look like the complete fools they obviously are.
Enter UND and the arrogant or ignorant Stenejhem…
the rest is history.
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A/C further infractions.
Rule 2: ignorant, two-faced, arrogant, schizo
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Flyingnurse says:
“Nickname opponents are always outnumbered on these boards.”
Yeh…they are outnumbered everywhere else also.
The only people who want to change the name are those limousine liberal pinheads at the NCAA and UND.
Why? you might ask, would these people be opposed to bringing honor and adulation to a minority group, they (liberals) are always for minorities are they not?
The answer is simple…they do not care about minorities, they want to keep minorities in their rightful place, as victims.
Victims who sit at the knee of these self-righteous pretenders and beg for handouts, denied by these people the same rights as, for instance, the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame.
Flyingnurse has repeatedly stated on this forum that the Reservation is a cesspool of hopelessness, a pathetic enclave of poverty and crime, not fit to exist in his United States of America.
Flyingnurse wants to abolish the reservations…force the Native Americans to become part of “mainstream america.”
Where have we heard that before?
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As I have said before Always: no matter how angry I make you, please never choose to honor me. Water board me if you must, but please never honor me Using your definition.
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Too late, I honored you when you took the stand that the name was hostile and abusive….you have stayed with that assertion. Even though I have proven the error of your ways many times over.
Your boy Kelley, and the SBHE get no such props. They are cowards and liars.
Oh, check the other string…I proved you wrong….again.
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A/C further infractions:
Rule 2: limousine liberal pinheads, self-righteous pretenders
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A/C further infraction:
Rule 2: cowards and liars.
I could add Rule 1 to almost any of your posts. You are far from civil.
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You are not gonnna start crying are you?
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I don’t know how to cry.
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I would say Reed Soderstrom is a Native American. Good to see someone with a law degree is sticking up for his peoples ID.
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Text of measure
The measure as it appears on the ballot reads:
This referendum measure concerns Senate Bill 2370 as passed by the Legislative Assembly in the November 2011 special session (Session Laws, Chapter 580). Senate Bill 2370 repealed section 15-10-46 of the North Dakota Century Code, which required the University of North Dakota to use the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.
YES – means you approve Senate Bill 2370, the effect of which would allow the University of North Dakota to discontinue the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.
NO – means you reject Senate Bill 2370, and would require the University of North Dakota to use the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.
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Order Granting Defendant’s Motion To Dismiss
http://www.scribd.com/doc/92226103/Spirit-Lake-Sioux-v-NCAA#
The Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe of Indians,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
The National Collegiate Athletic Association,
Defendants.
Case No. 2:11-cv-95
Dated: May 1, 2012
In The United States District Court
In The District of North Dakota
Northeastern Division
By: Ralph R. Erickson, Chief Judge,
United States District Court
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