Unpaid child support drives new N.D. lien law
April 1, 2012 at 6:39 pm in Grand Forks Herald
A new North Dakota law designed to capture unpaid child support appears to be working, although some question whether it places an unfair burden on car dealers. Continue Reading
I can’t wait to hear from that nutjob with the van.
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He lives on my block, but I have no association. LOL The down fall to living so close is seeing THAT VAN.
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Does the state monitor what the custodial parent does with the money?
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Anybody PAYING child support deserves to receive the receipts proving the money was actually spent on the child instead of on cocaine.
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so your saying all mothers are cocaine users what a bunch of crap, i rasied 2 kyds and i can count on 1 hand how many years he (ex) paid child support and i basically supported them WITH OUT state assistance except for the 3 years i went to college. Boy are you a piece of work.
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That is a rhetorical question, right, Gene? The person paying the money has no rights; you know that. I am still trying to figure out how the state says my child support due is the same for two kids as it was for four. My wages certainly haven’t doubled.
My ex still only works 24 hours a week. That was appropriate with 4 at home. Now there are only two and both are in HS. Why am I expected to support her part time lifestyle with my overtime?
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My question was sincerely seeking information. All I have to go on are a few anecdotal situations where the custodial parent did not spend the money on the kids. I have never gone through it, so don’t know. One would think that if there is a government program to assure payment, that same program could be responsible to see that the money actually goes where it was intended.
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Flyingnurse, your income doesn’t have to double because supprt obligations don’t multiply per child. For example, if your net monthly income is $1000 the child support obligation is $212, $258, $304 and $340 for one, two, three and four children respectively. As you can see, the support for four children is not four times the support for one child. Similarily, the support for four children is not twice the support for two children. Using my example, the obigor’s net income would only have to increase to $1100 to result in an obligation of $290 for two children.
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I am a custodial parent and have checked on this because I want to do what is right. They explained that it would be almost impossible to monitor every penny of support that is received by custodial parents.
There are so many dishonest people out there that it would be easy for them to obtain fake receipts that appear to be real. Also, if a parent is on drugs or abusing alcohol, I think it would be quite difficult to catch and penalize them because they probably have a good way of hiding their habits.
The child support enforcement unit would have to create a new division within their agency specifically for the purpose of monitoring child support recipients and to find evidence that any of them are on drugs or abusing alcohol, they would almost have to hire private detectives of send some of their staff out to constantly follow those parents resulting in huge expenses to their agency than what they can probably allow for.
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While I will never advocate against a parent paying his court ordered support of children, Gene brings up a comment that really needs to be addressed by the policy makers. Why does a non-custodial child support paying parent not get to see a list of expenses that are paid with said support? Or that some sort of monetary tracking system isn’t put into place to ensure that the funds aren’t being spent on something other than the needs of the children.
We all know that there is rent, food, utilities, clothes, school activities etc etc etc. We all know that raising children isn’t cheap. But a supportive parent should have the right to ensure that the money isn’t being spent on the new significant other.
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The moral of the story is birth control. I love my kids but if I had to do it all over again I would simply hire a surrogate and skip the incubator.
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I hear this come up a lot, but it seems to me that we can all agree that the expenses with kids are great. Daycare, fees for a variety of lessons and sports, not to mention increased rent and utilities to house and feed and clothe the kids add up to a large number in a quick hurry. Not to mention their toys, and pets and gas to haul them all over creation for the sports and lessons and other activities. My guess is that as long as long the kids are being properly cared for, all of the child support money and a lot more is being spent on them. Making a custodial parent document how every dollar was spent seems like a demand of a spiteful ex when you realize how much is really being spent on our kids.
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In my opinion the suggestion to “monitor” how child support is spent by the custodial parent would do nothing more than increase the cost of an already cost negative situation. So, who is going to do the review (a judge, a special magistrate or a new government agency)? So, who is going to decide what brand of shoes are appropriate (Nike, JC Penny or garage sale)? Who is going to decide if a ten dollar or five dollar gift for the child’s best friend’s birthday is appropriate? What portion of the utilities, insurance and costs of operating an automobile are going to be allocated to the children? Does the custodial parent have to buy the child’s groceries separately or if the grocery receipt has a box of cereal do we pro rate that among everyone in the house? Will the custodial parent have to keep a mileage log to record all of the transportation costs? A monitoring system would result in a contested hearing over the amount of support followed by monthly/quarterly/annual hearing to fight about what expenses should qualify, the result of which would be a far greater expense in lost work time, attorney fees and related expenses, not to mention some very frustrated judges who are now listening to whether Johnny should have Nike tennis shoes or his brother’s hand-me-downs. And what if the expenses exceed what was paid, are you also suggesting that child support would be increased? If the custodial parent is using cocaine as suggested by Schurkey I recommend that the non-custodial parent seek an immediate change of custody. Custodial parents who are spending the child support payments on illicit activities are the exception, not the rule; the remedy is a change of custody.
North Dakota’s child support system has holes. It is not perfect and it stinks if you are the non-custodial parent. In my opinion states that use a comparative income approach to child support rather than base the support exclusively on the obligor’s income are better systems; although comparative studies show that the results are approximately the same as would be determined under North Dakota’s guidelines. North Dakota’s system provides a functional method for taking care of children in a less than ideal situation. The system can without doubt be abused by custodial parents. Is the solution to create an accountability bookkeeping nightmare – probably not.
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I would have never taken a dime for child support if my husband and I would have divorced. Instead we would have agreed to joint custody…two weeks here and two weeks there. I can’t imagine it any other way. I think child support makes a woman dependent on their ex and that’s not how I would want to live.
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My family situation is different. We parents are separated but there is no custody or visitation stipulation. Our children come and go as they need or want to. It works very well because both parents get to see the kids on any given day and the kids are not stuck in the middle of this “battle” over who is going to have them. In spite of the division in our family, I feel blessed that our children aren’t in the “battle” that many in our situation are in. Of course the simple fact that our family is divided and in limbo doesn’t make it a lot better, but I am just thankful.
I can understand how alimony would make an ex dependent upon his or her ex, but not child support. That is not money for the parent, but for the care of the children. Just like college students who depend on excess funds to pay their bills, parents who depend upon child support to pay their bills are unwise. That money could one day be disallowed or just stop. It is important that all parents (whether custodial or not) do what they can to insure household expenses are below the [net] income from work that comes in. If a person feels that they don’t get paid enough, then chances are they living above their means. For those who are employed, they should be thankful they have a job and be responsible. Having any job is better than not and should not yield complaints about not getting paid enough. Parents who receive child support need to make sure those funds really are being used for the care of the children for whom the funds are intended. If parents are using it all for household expenses and the kids are doing without proper fitting clothes, shoes, etc. then they are not being responsible with their children’s money. A responsible parent would also try to find ways to help the funds be available to the kids in the future. The one paying the support could pass away on any given day and the support would come to a halt so it’s important to think about the “what ifs” and plan ahead. It’s called CHILD support, not adult support, for a reason. Use the funds in the best and wisest way(s) possible
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I wouldn’t take a dime because I would not need it. I went to school and got an education so that I could provide for myself and my child incase something would ever happen to my husband or our marriage. I’m independent and I do not want the courts, social services, or law enforcement involved in my life in any manner.
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It’s not whether or not YOU need it, because the parent is NOT who it is for. . .it is for the kids. Even if you wouldn’t need the funds to help provide for them, the funds would sure be beneficial to those it is meant for. Even if a parent doesn’t need the funds to help provide for the children, they could set up some type of college savings account and should also consider a larger life insurance policy to insure the money is available for many years to come. Parents need not think of themselves and what their best interest is and start thinking about the best interest [and future goals] of our leaders of tomorrow.
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So let the ex-spouse do that with their money. If you can’t trust them to do so then ask yourself this…who in the hell did you marry in the first place?
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well said Tj. I wish my ex was more like you
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I agree that child support should be monitored in some way. I know women that use child support money for going out to the bars and manicures for themselves. It is sad. I also know plenty of women that have gone without so that their child can have new shoes.
I also believe that using car titles as “collateral” is yet another kick in the seeds for non-custodial parents. Taking away the ability to get to work to pay child support seems like such an absolute joke!! Does it make sense? No! How will they ever be expected to get caught up if they cannot get to work?
Also, if a non-custodial parent would like to quit work and go back to school, the only thing done by the way of the child support office is lower support by 10%. Im not expecting it to go away competely, but half would be helpful?? I understand the child still needs to be cared for, but does the custodial parent not have to financial support the child either? So non-custodial parent isnt able to make their life better by being able to obtain a degree. Vicious cycle of doom!
Come on Legislatures, Senators, Governors! Help!
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Alicia Mcclure, you wrote “I know women that use child support money for going out to the bars and manicures for themselves.” Do those custodial parents have a place to live, do they feed their children, do their children have clothes and do their children get rides to/from their destination? Unless your answer to each of those questions is “no”, some amount of money is being spent on the children. Your comment seems to suggest that child support dollars are specially marked bills that can be traced when in reality the child support payment goes into the pool of funds available to pay all of the household expenses; rent, groceries, clothing, utilities . . .. The assumption is that the household expenses are higher because of the need to provide for the children.
The “flaw” in your observation is the assumption that because a custodial parent is spending money on them self they must not be spending all the child support on the children; that may or may not be true. However, to be consistent, you should apply the same reasoning to non-custodial parents who are sitting at the bar having a drink while complaining about their excessive child support payments.
I agree, there are bad parents who fail to properly care for their children. Some of them have custody and some do not. Many people struggle when they only have one household to maintain; when there are two households to maintain everyone’s standard of living decreases.
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In the business world, it’s called “co-mingling funds” and it’s prosecutable.
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I understand where Alicia is coming from. I am a parent of two and my ex had custody of our children. He and his wife are retired military and she works a part time job. He had a good job but quit because he had to work too much. (boo Hoo). I work a full time job. He and his wife were making about three times as much as me, living in a 300,000 dollar home, driving a new pickup and an Audi and i was living in an apartment, driving an older car. My children were at my place a lot of the time and asking me for money all the time. I was paying to him about half of my paycheck every payday. There were weekends when my children wanted to stay at my house and go to a movie or something but i had to tell them no because i didnt have the money to feed them all weekend or take them out. North Dakota should look at the means of both parents and base child support payments on that rather than a set structured plan.
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The true “flaw” Joe, is how would you feel if the money that was sent for your son was being used so your ex wife didnt have to work? I agree with parentoftwo – BOTH parents should be looked at when determining child support. In MY circumstance – The custodial does not work, flat out refuses, so why is non-custodial required to support the whole family? It takes TWO to make a baby, it should take TWO to pay for it as well!
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So even my complaint about forum moderation is awaiting moderation.
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If you talk to the child support enforcement office they are of the opinion that those receiving child support are correct to use funds for such things as housing, utilities, food, clothing, medical care, etc. because parents have a responsibility to provide those things for their children.
I am a custodial parent who is receiving no child support. My childrens’ father is in arrears of a significant sum. I am of the opinion, that child support is NOT the parent’s to keep, hord, spend on him or herself, etc. It is for the care of the children. When or if child support begins coming in (there is an order in place), most of the funds will be put in college savings accounts for our children, some will be used to invest in large life insurance policies for both of their biological parents (to provide for the children for many years after our passing), and some will be used for their care now. They are all very bright kids who have goals and I want to do all that I can to help them achieve their goals.
As with life insurance, just because the [child support] proceeds are there does not mean they have to be “burnt through” now. They can go much further and provide for the children even after support is no longer being received for them. I highly recommend obtaining life insurance plans for both parents. The younger and healthier parents are when they enroll in a plan, the less expensive it will be. For parents who are fortunate enough to be able to do so, set up disbursement plan for life insurance that will provide for the children for many years after the death of the parent(s). Also, make sure that the financial institution where the family trust will be set up upon your death is the beneficiary. This will insure that disbursements are made by the bank according to the disbursement plan and that no individual can withdraw and burn through funds that are meant for the children into their adulthood.
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Maybe if people didnt jump to divorce as the first option when they got upset over something this wouldnt be needed.
But even if a divorce did occur, i agree with TJ, 2 weeks with each parent and equal spending on clothes etc…
That way there is no need for one to give money to the other and then wonder how the cash is being spent.
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I didn’t JUMP into a divorce, Abused into one is more like it.
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The first post to this thread has spent 6 days “awaiting moderation”.
Woof.
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