Latest Duluth ice rink plan has a catch costing $300,000
February 8, 2012 at 6:00 pm in Duluth News Tribune
The Duluth school district offers a compromise that would require fundraising from the community to make up the shortfall.
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Latest Duluth ice rink plan has a catch costing $300,000
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Apparently the DPD has some extra $. They just spent $360K on new cars (and they don’t even fly) according to the DNT article.
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Uh-oh! An article about the school board? Sound the alarms!!! Rally the trolls!
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No Merv it’s a story about the cost and benefits of complying with unreasonable government regulations. In this case the cost is $300,000. The benefits are zero.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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OK, I re-read the article trying to figure out what you are referring to. Still unclear. I see American’s with Disabilities Act requirements for access to the public school building as one possibility. But, surely, you aren’t saying their is no benefit from allowing the disabled to access a public building, are you?
The only other reference I see is to a relaxation of green space requirements, which doesn’t appear to be an impediment to anything here.
What are you referring to?
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The regulation that requires a school to provide x parking spaces for y students.
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Actually, the regulation is for teachers, not students. Apparently, union teachers are guaranteed a parking spot through their contracts. Seems pretty unnecessary to me, but I don’t think that it’s enough to vilify the unions just for that.
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Really? You don’t think the zoning code should have parking requirements? I don’t think the neighbors would like all the streets clogged up with parked vehicles, especially if they don’t have off-street parking themselves. In fact, wasn’t that an issue recently out by Denfeld?
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I personally don’t think any parking LAW should be required, because that means that there are people who *require* a car, which means that there are people who *require* a privatized good, which means that the government is *requiring* the purchase of a private good, which is no good. If you just stop for a second, and take two steps back, you can clearly see how ridiculous our car culture is. Even Henry Ford’s great-grandson warns of “global gridlock” as there is less and less room to put all these vehicles. Mass transit isn’t just a single option. It’s the only option for a truly feasible transportation system. Anything else is going to inevitably lead to clashes over space, like the ice rinks vs. disgruntled neighbors ordeal, and will continue to siphon more and more money out of our shrinking wallets.
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Having grown up in this neighborhood, I’m aware of a plot of unused school district land to the west of the Congdon bldg. approximately 100′ by 300′ . This is never mentioned in the discussions of parking etc. Think outside the box! Put it to use now!
Second point, why didn’t Johnson Controls ever suggest using the Ordean location for relocating the rinks! I’m not suggesting the mayor’s idea is genious, just wondering why Johnson Controls appears time & again so inept. Their name should be “Two guys & a spreadsheet”.
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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I have to ask again. Where is this 100×300 foot plot of land west of Congdon?
Here’s an overhead shot. http://binged.it/yStcdM
I don’t see anything that looks like what you describe anywhere in reasonable walking distance to the west of Congdon.
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It is intriguing, isn’t it?
I wonder if he/she means the reservoir? (at 34th and 4th?)
BTW, that overhead is from summer, and you can see how bad those playing fields are. No grass, dirt, rocks….I mean, even if you love ice rinks you can’t be happy with the condition of that field.
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Oh, the reservoir is more east…hmmm. Right, I don’t see much to the west either…
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I really do think it might be time to let go of the Congdon rinks. The playing field at Congdon has just been reduced to dirt and rocks by all this flooding and freezing, and artificial turf isn’t really an appealing solution. Kids need natural grass to play on, and they won’t have that as long as the ice rinks are there. Yes, the current plan is very expensive. That’s why it might be better to let it go. Can’t the Congdon ice rinks folks see this and consolidate their efforts with some of the existing ice rinks? There really are plenty of ice rinks out there.
Let some grass grow at Condgon for a change.
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After looking at these drawings, it seems pretty clear that keeping the rinks at Congdon school might not be such a good idea. Duluthian is right, artifical turf doesn’t really belong on an elementary school play field. If this Congdon Park hockey association wants a really great place for rinks instead of rinks in a place where they are squeezed in as an afterthought, they should seriously consider the very good idea put forth by Mayor Ness. Having the rinks at East instead of at the elementary school is probably the best of any ideas that have been proposed. The limited space at the Congdon elementary site should be used in the manner best suited for the elementary school. The rinks used to fit terifically and now they do not. Moving them to East is a fine idea.
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Mr. Rudolph would you like to run for mayor? You certainly would get my vote.
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The 2 drawings do not help me see how either plan compares to the current layout. Third map should have been included.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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The original design proposal from 2 years ago is here, it should give you a feel for what it looks like now and how the plan has changed: http://www.chooseduluthschools.com/resources/pdfs/archive/design-and-construction/school-schematics/congdon-park-elementary.pdf
Option 1 would have put handicapped access on a different level and entrance from the main entrance.
Option 2 would have had the upper rink 20 feen higher than the lower rink which would have required some engineering so a Zamboni and skaters could safely navigate from one to the other.
Both of those options rely on the purchase of existing houses and it seems one or more owners are unwilling.
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Good for the home owners. It should be their right to decline to sell if the price isn’t right etc. Interesting though. Over across town in Lincoln Park, or Denfeld, and even east by Piedmont & Lester Park, if home owners stood firm and refused to sell, the Board immediately threatened Eminent Domain, – yet I haven’t heard a whisper of that in this location. For that I am glad, and yet, everyone should be treated the same – the families that lost their homes after being threatened with Eminent domain should never have had to leave. Plans should have never been drawn until they saw what property they had to work with for a design. If they couldn’t get the property fairly, then they should have chosen a different site to expand.
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I need a clarification on what the land the district has already purchased on the south side of Greyslon will be used for now that there seems to be no further need for it..? These homes surely cost a considerable amount of funds.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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This article states, “Three homes that were purchased by the district probably would be put back on the market.” That the houses would be sold has also been reported in a previous DNT article.
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Good luck getting what they paid for these houses if they have to put them back on the market again. Another waste. There are several other houses that they bought around different sites and have not needed. That’s our tax dollars hard at work.
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Unbelievable. Abomination – I agree, – Johnson Controls is a joke – what are they being paid for? Certainly not problem solving. Let me guess – the 300,000 – 400,000 is if Johnson Controls builds the warming shack – and by the contract, they are the only ones allowed to build it on school property? There should be a way to accomodate both without this astronomical figure. Yesterday there was a post that asked why did it take so long for those affected to hear about these plans ? Answer: because this is how the Board and Johnson Controls manages desent. Do people think these drawings/plans just were developed? These drawings were done years ago. And as much as I had hoped the people fighting for these rinks were successful, – take a minute to think about all the other school projects throughout the city that weren’t favorable (loss of homes & people forced out of their homes for the new Lincoln, Ordean, Denfeld, loss of schools for Central, Nettleton, Morgan Park, not enough green space at the new East & Piedmont (still not settled with the church), the list goes on and on. They have a plan to finish and nothing is going to get in their way – not lack of money, neighborhood dissent, lack of permits, people not wanting to sell their homes. And for the record, as much as I support these rinks staying – I do not support Ness giving parks and rec levy money from the recent increase to this one specific rink. Ness didn’t step in for any other part of town, it would be wrong for the city to step in here (except with variances) for this one.
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Johnson Controls just figured out how to get even more money. Now they can rip off the city directly not just in the school district. The madness continues. No surprise here.
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Whats wrong with using Grant Rec(Central Field) was once very popular and everything exists including the new warming shack, tons of rink and parking space. To those unfamiliar its on 10th Ave E. And then theres also lower Chester of 15th that even has refridgeration for the rink.
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It is really sad that this group has forced a compromise that they don’t like. Congdon needs a bigger parking lot. They house K-5 with 3 or 4 sections and three autism programs. There can be over 50 staff in the school and parents volunteers on any given day. Like I said yesterday education precedes ice rinks and hockey. i won’t be giving any money to this over zealous group.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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FYI, this “overzealous group” hasn’t asked for your money, or money from anyone else. This group has asked to at least entertain other plans. There is room left for soccer and baseball/softball, but not for a rink and shack that has been donated and maintained by volunteers for 80+ years? I have had 3 children at Congdon, and not one of them has EVER complained about mud, nor have their friends. They wait w/ anticipation year, however, for the rinks to be ready. No one has asked the kids what THEY want. Spring happens w/ a vengeance in this part of the country. If the soccer and baseball/softball people want green grass, I’m sure that some of the hockey parents would be willing to help. Hockey families are not the monsters that some of you have made them out to be.
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My understanding though is that the save the rinks group wants the school district to buy the five homes next to the school to build a parking lot, so that the existing rink set up can be preserved. That is asking for money, because buying those houses isn’t cheap. That by itself has to cost at least 1 million.
So you aren’t asking for money for rinks, but you are asking for a lot of money to save the rinks. I think it’s time to let this go. There’s not really a shortage of ice rinks in Duluth, and really the kids don’t skate much during school.
The focus here needs to be on the school and what happens during the school day. The effect of having the ice rinks there during the school day is really just to pen the kids in to a smallish playground either because the fields are covered in ice or mud. That really isn’t doing the kids any favors.
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The Save the Rinks group is NOT asking for money or a new facility. Their purpose has always been focused on the preservation of the existing facility, originally built and funded by private donations.
They also made it very clear to their supporters that they would not promote animosity or negative attacks. To call them overzealous or aggressive, or stupid, is not accurate and cowardly. They are a dedicated group of parents trying to represent a group of children who value the rinks. They understood from the outset that they were facing serious financial and emotional obstacles, but they forged ahead and did their best to support a group of children who love these rinks.
If their efforts fail they will take their kids to Portman, Woodland, Glen Avon or any of the other rinks in Duluth. And they will continue to volunteer their time while their kids skate at those facilities.
The mayor was very generous in offering money to help re-build a facility at a new location. But this group of financially responsible adults respectfully declined the offer, because they understood the cost (both financial and political) of building a new facility.
The “new” facility proposed by the school board at Congdon includes an expensive retaining wall, new lights, turf, new boards and a new shack. There is no money available for a new facility. And the Save the Rinks people maintained from the begining that they do not support additional funding for a new rink. The money just isn’t there. This is a smokescreen to allow the demolishion work to begin as soon as possible.
The original plan that was submitted and funded ($15 million) placed a parking lot on the lower side of Greysolon. The school board has already purchased 3 of the 5 homes required to build this lot. The Save the Rinks people have asked the school board to stick with their original plan. The Save the Rinks people have asked the school board NOT to spend money on a new facility. They are simply asking that their facility be preserved and the original plan be restored.
How is any of the work done by Save the Rinks stupid, aggressive, or overzealous? Give these people a break. Whether or not you agree with their cause, they are sacrificing their privacy and emotional health in order to support a group of children. Disagreeing with their efforts is understandable, but bashing them is inappropriate and ugly.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Those five house will cost upwards of a million dollars … how does buying them to build a parking lot make sense? Not only does the city lose the houses, it loses the tax payers that live in them. The school district should put the three houses it bought back on the market and get some money back on this deal ….
The other problem is that the ice rinks aren’t compatible with green space. Nothing grows there, it’s really mostly dirt and rocks and a few weeds. And I’m sure people will talk about re-seeding, but the fact is that just doesn’t work.
Elementary school kids need green grass to run around on. That’s cheap and safe. Congdon doesn’t have that now, but it really needs it.
Move the rinks and let some grass grow!!
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They give us two equally unpalatable choices and make believe like they are giving us a choice.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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Your option is?
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I know you aren’t asking me, but I think building the parking lot on the school grounds and then keeping the other half as a green space with no ice rinks is absolutely what is best for the school. The teachers and staff need places to park (sorry, but they do) and the students need green space with real grass growing to play on. The school really doesn’t *need* an ice rink, and no other elementary school has one. The ice rinks should consolidate their operations with existing rinks like Glen Avon, Portman, etc.
In the end that is the fiscally responsible solution, and it also minimizes the impact on the surrounding Congdon neighborhood (no houses torn down, and less parking on the street).
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keep the rinks exactly as they are. Put in some parking on the west side of the building.
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It’s an idea, I can see a few issues that come with that though. First, the grade over there is monsterous. It would require a lot of fill and there may be rock to blast there as well. There’s a creek running along the west side of the building and to disturb that would take special permitting and variances. I’m not sure that’s possible.
Logistically, there’s no entrance on the west side of the building and with the main entrance on the south side there would have to be a walkway from the lot to the west across the loading dock area for the cafeteria.
There are no good solutions for Congdon. The site is too small, the existing building and lot force a lot of constraints on any design and no matter what the designers try, not only can’t they please everyone, they may not even be able to please the majority.
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Oh, and thank you for responding.
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