Big Sky ‘concerned’ but continues to monitor UND nickname drama
February 7, 2012 at 7:12 am in Grand Forks Herald
UND’s status within the Big Sky Conference won’t change immediately as a result of this week’s tentative restoration of the university’s Fighting Sioux nickname, Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton said today. Continue Reading
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There would be advantages to the Big Sky dropping to 12 members, an even number that would make scheduling easier — especially if the dropped member was 600 miles away. “You tell me who needs who more?” – Brian Fullerton, Big Sky Conference.
My friends, it doesn’t get a clearer than than that.
Keep in mind that when the Big Sky made the offer to UND, there was talk of Montana moving up to FBS in football. And it was also assumed that USD was going to join the Big Sky as well. The Big Sky was looking for members and figured it would be a two game road trip to hit both UND and USD on basketball weekends. The Big Sky doesn’t need UND and if this doesn’t get figured out soon, they very likely will not even want UND. If that happens, hockey will be all that is left. Every other sport will wither and die.
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Stay classy, JT.
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Happy now, Eunice, Archie, Al Carlson, Rob Port, Don?
All your blindness to reality will cost the state of ND, but you “won”. Congrats.
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Name 5 public figures who have come out and flat out said that the name should be changed…
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They almost all voted to repeal the law they thought would make the NCAA crumble but it did not. Look at the vote. It is public record.
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You do know the law to require the University to keep its name was overturned by a vote of public legislatures including the governor by signing it. You do know all votes by the legislature are public record right? I am trying to type slow for you so you understand. Please come back and say public statements by public figures are more important than their votes, I need a laugh!
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I will start the list: Kleinsasser, Phil Jackson
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Yeah, you keep believing that.
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The NCAA operates as a non profit. The NCAA brings in approximately $750,000,000 per year in revenue, mostly from marketing agreements for it’s members games. About 96% of that money is distributed back to member schools. So, about $30,000,000 is what it costs to operate the NCAA (mostly salaries). Divide that among 1200 member schools and the cost per school averages about $25,000. Or if you want to look at it a different way it’s about $.50 per student attending college in the US.
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Taxpayers no.. Consumers yes. There is a difference.
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Yes but the campus and its facilities are not part of the NCAA.. The analogy that you are driving towards is because I belong to an ‘OPTIONAL’ organization such as the NRA that they own my guns and my house, and sorry but that is far from the truth. While the institution may receive funding from governmental resources you cannot say with 100% certainty that it is those funds that are paying for the membership. Those funds could be coming from student activity fees, alum donations or a variety of other sources.
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Spearman, I understand your point. Taxpayers support the institution, thereby making the sports teams possible. My point was simply to illistrate that the amount of support that taxpayers actually provide to the NCAA is a small figure. The existence of the NCAA costs about $.50 per student. Certainly we can agree that is a very small part of what taxpayers spend on a student’s education. Now, we can get into the whole arguement of “are we as taxpayers spending money to educate students, or are we simply investing money to train individuals who will in tern become taxpayers and pay back the system?” That is an age old question, that would probably best be left to another forum.
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Again makes absolutely not sense spearman
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You need more practice doing dialectical thinking.
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Those are some EXTREMELY vague numbers. I am going to need some citation on your arthmetic,please. Thanks!
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NCAA Revenue breakdown not so random
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/finances/revenue
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You are giving me a pie chart of projections. Go home and try again.
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Really that is your response to the NCAA projections is that they are not true. Not a surprise at all. All your arguments are based on what people say is not true.
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2004-2010 NCAA Revenue and expenses. You will not be able to read it JT so you got another good excuse for not believing.
http://ncaapublications.com/p-4237-2004-2010-revenues-and-expenses.aspx
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its a schools option to be part of the NCAA….not required.
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Obviously the person that voted you down, wasn’t listening to the radio broadcast with Fullerton on it where he stated ‘The NCAA is an OPTIONAL membership club. You don’t HAVE to belong to the club. But to be part of the Big Sky, you have to be part of the NCAA.’
The train wreck keeps on getting better, and better and better..
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Spearman: last count this has been explained to you roughly 10 times. One generous person went so far as to give you relevant court cases.
Just because you do not like the answer does not make it acceptable for you to keep asking the same question.
Fact: the courts consider the NCAA a private club that can set its own rules for membership.
Fact: the SBHE controls the name
Fact: in a year after the constitutional amendment fails the name will still be retired & you will have to move on.
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JT we discussed how the Seminoles did it a few weeks ago. We talked that issue to death. I even went so far as to call the Seminole’s athletic department. The PR guy there gave the links to the appropriate FSU and Seminole tribe sites for people to brush up on their facts. We beat that horse so bad PETA was threatening to sue.
Quick recap: FSU old logo was a cartoon. The Seminole tribe leadership did not like it. They went to FSU & said something has to give. FSU retired the cartoon that same year. Then AFTER the offensive caricature was retired, FSU & the Seminole tribe worked together to come up with a new marketing strategy. The Seminole tribe signed a contract with FSU over the use of the new imagery. The kicker is the Seminole tribe kept control of the imagery. If FSU uses it in a manner the tribe does not approve of, or if the tribe’s leadership changes it’s mind, FSU has to find a new marketing tool.
As for UND, it did have a similar agreement. It was not able to close the deal so the agreement lapsed.
The NCAA gave UND the same opportunity it gave FL & IL. It was not the NCAA that failed to keep their end of the bargain, it was the people of ND
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http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/09/09/native-american-tribe-defends-fighting-sioux-logo-53229
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That is flat out not true. The NCAA is supported by member schools and and other things like TV revenue. Do not Lie. NO TAXPAYER MONEY.
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Member schools are supported by taxpayers
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Well I guess this article fills that one with Don Barcomb Jr. (sp?)yesterday full of air doesn’t it.
Kids this isn’t one of those things where you get an ‘Opps I want a do over’.. Whatever the outcome, it will effect the UND Athletic department for many years to come be it positive or negative.
I seriously hope that you supporters are right and I’ll eat my own crow if you are.. But if your wrong.. if your wrong the amount of damage that will be done, I’m afraid will not be undone for a very long time.
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On the radio this afternoon Brian Faison again just confirmed that what is going on has the potential to cause UND to loose their Big Sky affiliation.
Well I guess that will be ok with AlwaysWrong, because we will have no need to be part of the NCAA.. His beloved hockey program can just sit in the Ralph and remember the glory days while drinking their own tears of disappointment. It really is time to put away your ego’s guys, this shit is for realz.
Also noted during the interview, that Minnesota and Wisconsin will not be playing UND in any sport, much less hockey due to the name issue.
Lets keep flushing the sports program down the toilet boys.. You’re almost there, a couple of more pushes and you’ll get your wish of ruining one of the finest institutions in this area.
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this is a hot mess.
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Some people are so stupid that the only way they can tell if a stove is hot is by touching it, at the great consternation of their mothers!
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I don’t understand why everyone is so obsessed with the Big Sky. It’s not that great of a conference and the logistics are horrible.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Because nobody else wants us right now. Only reason Big Sky took us is because they thought this was over. No reason to believe any other conference would treat us any differently. But we need any conference mostly for scheduling and the money they bring in for things like TV rights, marketing agreements, conference tournaments and advancing to the NCAA tournaments. All of that is shared with all members to some extent.
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Yes they are and they have been for years. But we should hang on in hope they do not.
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Folks: you do realize that next week the AG will file a motion with the Supreme Court for an injunction against the law coming back into effect on the basis of it being unconstitutional. The Supreme Court will grant that injunction pending formal arguments.
After the injunction is announced Kellybwill release another one sentence press release stating we are back to being just goog old UND.
In other words it is groundhogs day. Nothing has changed.
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Better than putting out flat out lies like you JT
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We already made the law and they did not budge. What will be different this time? They will not give up any of their rights to govern themselves ever. Even if we vote to double dog dare them.
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Oh yeah another point I wanted to make. I think the main reason supporters want a vote is so they can see how the reservation votes. I really can not believe the NCAA will use that vote to by pass the leaders of a sovereign nation who did not want a vote and refused to be compelled to vote. My opinion.
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JT are you new here or do you just like rehashing old stuff. The agreement does not call for a back door vote, it calls for the acquiescence of the tribe. That means the leadership signs a contract. Not going to happen kids.
Plus, the agreement has expired. You would have to go to the NCAA for a new contract. Do you really think you have more prestige in their eyes than the governor?
A rather inflated sense of self worth wouldn’t you say?
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To answer your question with questions..
Q1: What was the stipulation of the agreement?
A: To gain the approval of the SR and SL tribes by the 30th of November 2010.
Q2: Does a state wide vote fulfill this requirement?
A: No because the SR tribe is not wholly contained in the State of North Dakota.
Q3: Even if this would constitute agreement of both tribes was the date deadline met?
A: No
There are all kinds of things that the NCAA contractually can hold UND in non-compliance of that agreement if they so chose. It was a horrible to agree to it in any way shape or form when we took them to court the first time. But then the NCAA had a whole lot of experience behind them, and quite honestly had the high ground so to speak.
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To add to this.. just for clarification. The agreement didn’t state the Standing Rock Tribe only in North Dakota. It stated agreement with the Standing Rock Tribe. The majority of which is in South Dakota.
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The pro cartoon side speak with forked tongue. They disparage the constitution & the courts because they don’t like the inevitable ruling (your own lawyer says the law is illegal – don’t blame me, I’m just the messenger).
Yet, if the constitutional amendment passes & the cartoon & marketing strategy are enshrined in the state’s founding documents, & a future legislature votes to get rid of the name, who will be the first to wrap themselves in the parchment & demand justice?
Don’t mean to be harsh, but the hypocrisy is overwhelming.
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Remember in Florida the NCAA only required one vote from 6 Seminole reservations while in ND they req. two separate tribal votes. NCAA = Florida Seminole TV $$$$.
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The NCAA isn’t requiring a vote of the reservations.. They are requiring an agreement from a Tribe. In Florida there is only one Tribe, albeit spread across several reservation areas.
While I agree that I don’t understand why we were required to have approval from two tribes vs one, ultimately that was what was agreed to by the people who were put in charge of negotiations.
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In North Dakota there is only one Sioux tribe on 2 reserves related to the issue.
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Actually you are wrong. But thanks for playing know your Native American History.
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Notice i said related to the issue. The Arikara & Anishanabe reserves aren’t Dakota.
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Of course there is a tiny sliver of the Sisseton reserve in ND. At any rate the Dakota all originated as one tribe in the Mississippi headwaters area in Mn. Before that they had migrated because of Euro settlement pressure from further eastarn US. Again one Dakota/Lakota/Nakota tribe was required to have 2 votes unlike the Seminoles of Florida.
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And I wasn’t referring to the reservations. I was referring to the tribes. There is more than one tribe of Native Americans that make up each reservation.
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What are they Maverick?
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Check out their respective websites.. It is chock full of information.
http://www.standingrock.org/history/
http://www.spiritlakenation.com/About_The_Tribe.htm
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Like I said 2 reserves, one Sioux tribe
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There are a total of 5 or 6 (don’t remember exactly) Seminole reservations. The difference there is they have an umbrella organization that speaks for the Seninole tribe. It has representatives from each Rez. The agreement was with this organization.
Do not think the Seminoles are homogenous on this issue either. Right now the pro nickname faction is in control but the anti nickname minority is getting stronger. There is a generational divide. The older members are pro while many of the younger are con. As the old ones die off & the younger ones take over, you may see this issue revisited again. Remember under their agreement the tribe kept control of the imagery.
Personally I think the tribe should demand a Seminole be on horseback during the game, not a frat boy in kabuki makeup. Just my opinion & I doubt they care
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Official site of the Seminoles still uses cartoon of Seminole . see below site http://www.seminoles.com/genrel/080505aab.html
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This official site still sells hats & hockey jerseys with the Seminole cartoon character.
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Isn’t North Dakota starting to look kind of silly on this name issue? We look like the woman shopping for a dress that just can’t make up her mind which one to get. The rest of the world isn’t going to wait forever while we get our s___t together.
This is what happens when you turn over the decision to Native Americans. Thanks NCAA. There is never a decision and it goes on forever. Although there seems to be plenty of non native people who stick thier noses where they don’t belong.
The next time we drop the name it will be for the 3rd time. Hopefully 3 times is the charm so that educating our young people becomes our number one concern again.
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“Starting” to look kind of silly, John? It’s way past that.
After over a ten year period, I’d say it falls somewhere between sad and just plain ridiculous.
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Everybody is getting an education about cultural diversity. Once again the radical chic PCers are minimizing the essence of Homo Ludens, i.e. “man the player”.
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Heard you on the radio today ‘Always’ or was that Frank… You are impossible to convince on a Statewide radio show as you are on the forums. Yes I know it was you, because you used the same tired excused as you do here.. But I wasn’t convinced until you brought up the Ralph and the Englestads.
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I was on the radio?
I thought that was an LSD flashback.
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The BIG mistake is in thinking that UND needs an athletic program.
Shut down the athletics, go back to making the education of students the priority.
Problem solved, and no great loss.
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Who gives a darn about the Big Sky, like anyone should care. If they are too PC to accept us then we find another conference. We need to hold firm to our beliefs! Deep down, we all know, that the majority of people want to keep the name. Let’s stop doing what the minority wants and actually do what the majority wants for a change.
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8 out of 10 stories on these boards are for this name game nonsense, and several of them are pretty close in content. Apparently someone at the Herald is too lazy to look for articles and just slaps up any article pertaining to the Sioux name because of course…..We just don’t care about anything else…..I’m surprised that so many of the same posters want to continue with the same arguments they’ve been using for all these years on this issue…..It’s been said over and over again……We can cut down to say a limit of three related articles and you’d still get every argument ever posted….
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